Violin accompaniment - An analysis of the best

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 15 Aug 2013, 17:08

This thread is to probably RATE and DISCUSS some the best ever Violin accompaniments to Carnatic Music ( Vocal and Instrumental )

I have long been curious to find out what other CM rasikas felt about Violin as an accompaniment and whom they rate as the best accompaniment to CM and Why??

Points to ponder about -

1) I have been a fan of LGJ since I dunno when and have 'Always' considered him as the BEST ever violin accompaniment there can ever be. Reasons are simple - Quickness and exactness of response to Sangathis, Kannaku and other challenges the vocalist poses, Vast repertoire of Krithis as evident from LGJ actually playing out the whole krithi in most recordings, Legendary playing of RTP's, Ability to single handedly draw crowds and win applause in between raga delineations.

2) I have also listened to some recordings of VV Subramanium accompanying Tanjore Kalyanaraman and was rather over excited about VVS's brilliance in accompaniment. There is this famous recording of VVS accompanying SSI and TKM at Music Academy in 1958 ( VVS was 14 years old and SSI at his peak at 50 years ). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7r2N01o6Ns
The Boy genius plays brilliantly and you can hear SSI appreciating VVS - " Bhale Da Bhale da"

Questions to be answered -

1) Among contemporary violinists, whom do you think is the best accompanist?

2) Among all violinists, who has made the most mark in accompanying for vocal music?

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 15 Aug 2013, 17:53

Nice thread. Sorry for the digression. Regarding point number 2, Either the year & the venue is incorrect or the accompanists' name is incorrect. Because, as per the website of The Music Academy, the accompanists for SSI in that concert is listed as Papa, Palani & Kothandarama Iyer.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 15 Aug 2013, 18:06

Among all violinists, who has made the most mark in accompanying for vocal music?

It would be nice if samples are discussed as representative top class ones.
CM has just too many greats to be able to pin down the best , the most etc....

advaitin · Post by **advaitin** » 15 Aug 2013, 18:19

semmu, not sure if it is Palani, did not feel so from what i could make out listening. did you hear the same?

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 15 Aug 2013, 18:54

semmu86 wrote:Nice thread. Sorry for the digression. Regarding point number 2, Either the year & the venue is incorrect or the accompanists' name is incorrect. Because, as per the website of The Music Academy, the accompanists for SSI in that concert is listed as Papa, Palani & Kothandarama Iyer.

Yes you are right. It was Papa and Palani in 1958 MA. I guess the venue isnt MA as mentioned in the video. It is certainly VVS on the violin and NOT Papa. Whether the year is 1958 or not dosent diminish the superb accompaniment of VVS to SSI.

Coming back to the topic, Which violinist was known as a brilliant and able accompanist? LGJ and VVS definitely Yes!

Here are a few concert recordings of LGJ and VVS - Sit back and enjoy

LGJ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4l-QFdcvq8

VVS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BY3NfT8baY

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 15 Aug 2013, 19:18

advaitin wrote:semmu, not sure if it is Palani, did not feel so from what i could make out listening. did you hear the same?

Even I feel that it could not have been Palani. The thani at the end of the RTP is unfortunately cut. SSI at the end says something to the effect of "sabash po", which says that someone junior at that period should have been playing like either TKM/ UKS/ Vellore. SSI has sung this same S'bharaNam pallavi over the decades to various accompaniments and I have heard only UKS' accompaniment highlighting the various eDams in the pallavi using khandam and misram like the very little we get to hear in this track at the very last. Maybe we can make out if the full thani is available.

advaitin · Post by **advaitin** » 15 Aug 2013, 20:08

Semmu, even the tani apart- the playing for the pallavi also did not somehow indicate Palani. Could be UKS, another possible indicator - kuchi or kappi?

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 15 Aug 2013, 20:42

Its tough to identify past masters especially the thanjavur school ones, based on the accompaniment alone. Usually the final mOhrA kOrvai would be the give away as the styles were also similar. UKS Sir used to play a lot of sarvalaghu in his younger days (Recordings from the late 50s and 60s). The vAdhyam sounds like kappi, but the full blooded "Num" (could it be UKS?) makes me think the vAdhyam to be kuchi.

Just happened to listen to the mArubalka from supposedly the same concert. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpJL0N9Brrg My guesses reg the mrudangam vidwAn not being UKS. The trademark arai chApu is missing (Usually thats the indicator, irrespective of the quality of recording, artiste, acoustics, kuchi or kappi vAdhyam etc); the trademark UKS sollus while playing for mArubalka is missing.

Ramesh :: Any inputs on this?

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 15 Aug 2013, 22:21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge1a9H_q_X8

This is UKS accompanying SSI at MA 1968. This Marubalka is so trademark UKS

Hope it clarifies

And not to disrespect your discussions, I wish we would continue on what the topic was intended for

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 15 Aug 2013, 23:38

Semmu, from the clip of Marubalka that you played the mridangist sounds like Vellore Ramabhadran to me. It might be from the 1957 concert (with Papa) or the 1956 concert (with TNK), which puts the VVS theory in jeopardy.

And not to disrespect your discussions, I wish we would continue on what the topic was intended for

Shrikanth, this is a great topic. We should have more discussions like this and may of us are eager to participate in this. However, unless we identify the accompanists correctly, the whole discussion is moot.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 16 Aug 2013, 00:07

The whole discussion cannot turn on one unidentified accompanist, can it?

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 16 Aug 2013, 01:09

The whole discussion cannot turn on one unidentified accompanist, can it?

Nick, the details of an entire track are in question and that has raised issues about who the violin, mridangam artistes are. That then raises the question of the year of the performance and the venue. Yes, so that's everything except the vocalist SSI.

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 16 Aug 2013, 07:06

Thanks very much Ramesh. Guess this confusion in lot of tracks is thanks to some random tagging of artists.

shrikanth_mohan wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge1a9H_q_X8 This is UKS accompanying SSI at MA 1968. This Marubalka is so trademark UKS Hope it clarifies

Yeah I know that it is UKS #-o #:-s The confusion is neither about this track and its accompanists, nor did I ask for a sample of UKS accompanying for mArubalka.

shrikanth_mohan wrote:And not to disrespect your discussions, I wish we would continue on what the topic was intended for

Nick H wrote:The whole discussion cannot turn on one unidentified accompanist, can it?

No point in defending the case against ppl who are immune to the importance of tagging the correct artists. Dosent mean to say that the OP has tagged the artists incorrectly on purpose. But its very important to find out and put actual names to the tracks, because it is highly unfair/ sometimes even disrespectful, to the incorrectly tagged names and also to the actual artists who have played.

I dont wish to speculate on this SSI track anymore. Thanks

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 16 Aug 2013, 09:55

Semmu, from the clip of Marubalka that you played the mridangist sounds like Vellore Ramabhadran to me. It might be from the 1957 concert (with Papa) or the 1956 concert (with TNK), which puts the VVS theory in jeopardy.

I heard the S'bharanam yesterday.

It isn't TNK.

I also doubt if it's Papa.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 16 Aug 2013, 10:05

Srikanth, Thanks. You may well be right. Those were my guesses going by the mridangist and the MMA records.
Anyway, I do not see any record of an MMA concert with SSI-VVS-TKM from that general era, as claimed by the OP and the youtube uploader.

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 16 Aug 2013, 20:01

Maybe the venue isn't a Music Academy as mentioned in the video..

Points to ponder about -
1) I don't think anyone has doubts whether the violinist in the video is indeed VVS. The style of playing is the same as the video i had posted of VVS accompanying Tanjore Kalyanaraman. And all of his prev gen LGJ, TNK, MSG, MC, Papa and MTC had DISTINCTLY different styles. If indeed its not VVS who else cud have it been??

2) I havent heard much of TNK, MSG and MC accompanying artists. Could anyone post audio/video where their accompaniment has been outstanding??

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 18 Aug 2013, 12:08

Very sad that no one seems to share my enthusiasm for continuing this discussion!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 18 Aug 2013, 13:26

Yes it is.

Of all things, I am hugely appreciative of the skills of the violin accompanist on the carnatic stage. I was looking forward to learning something.

But don't give up. You never know what the next post might bring!

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 18 Aug 2013, 21:24

There is no doubt that Sri Lalgudi was the best accompaniment and he grew up extremely fast in the ladder.Between his age 20 - 50,Perhaps there was no parallel.
The versatility and quick response to tough musicians like GNB,MDR,KVN etc is his hall mark.
However,later MSG and TNK played stellar roles as extremely good violin accompanists.In the top slot,we can place as follows:
Lalgudi,MSG,TNK,MC,VVS in the earlier generation.

eesha · Post by **eesha** » 18 Aug 2013, 21:54

shrikanth_mohan: Very sad that no one seems to share my enthusiasm for continuing this discussion!

in post #1 , you have said:

I have been a fan of LGJ since I dunno when and have 'Always' considered him as the BEST ever violin accompaniment there can ever be

In post #16, you have said:

I haven't heard much of TNK, MSG and MC accompanying artists.

Without listening much to TNK, MSG and MC , how did you consider LGJ to be the "BEST" ??

Anyway, this whole discussion topic makes no sense. It is like asking which is a better beverage - tea or coffee. And there is no answer for such questions. It depends on one's taste.

There are fanatic fans of LGJ, MSG and TNK. And they all will swear by their idol. And they all will have their own reasons and justifications.

If anyone asks me to name the top 3 accompanying violin artists , my ordering will be 1) MSG 2) MSG 3 ) MSG. But that does not mean anything to a LGJ fan or a TNK fan.

So let us stop trying to pick an order of greatness in them.

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 18 Aug 2013, 22:13

Even now the violonist scenario is pretty good. RK Shriramkumar; S Varadarajan; Embar Kannan; Nagai Sriram;Nishnat Chandran;Vittal Ramamurthy; HN Bhaskar; BU Ganesh Prasad; Parur family;Mysore Srikanth; Vijayalakshmi; Padma Shankar; Hemalatha; Charumathi Raghuraman; Ranjani Ramakrishanan; Narmada; Akkarai Sisters... a long list. If they are paid well & given due recognition they will be motivated to excel. All of them are quite young. KNV

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 19 Aug 2013, 07:09

Dear KNV,

Add to the list Mysore brothers and Embar Kannan.I agree with u.The Violin scenario is pretty good.

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 19 Aug 2013, 09:54

eesha wrote:
Without listening much to TNK, MSG and MC , how did you consider LGJ to be the "BEST" ??

If anyone asks me to name the top 3 accompanying violin artists , my ordering will be 1) MSG 2) MSG 3 ) MSG. But that does not mean anything to a LGJ fan or a TNK fan.

So let us stop trying to pick an order of greatness in them.

I am sure everyone has their own favourites and I do respect them.
I have mentioned i havent heard "much" of MSG or TNK. This is only in comparison to the amount I have heard of LGJ. But enough to feel that LGJ was better.

What I DO want to know is WHY do you consider MSG to be the best accompanist? (Maybe he might have been better than LGJ) All I want is objective and precise reasons ( Apart from you being his ardent fan ). I can provide you with 10 different reasons as to why I consider LGJ the greatest. Can you??

The reason for starting this topic is to see what OTHER CM rasikas think of the accompanying greats and why they consider them so. Rating them or Coronating them as the greatest is merely part of the excercise. At the end of the day no one means any disrespect towards any particular artist!

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 19 Aug 2013, 10:18

KNV1955 wrote:Even now the violonist scenario is pretty good. RK Shriramkumar; S Varadarajan; Embar Kannan; Nagai Sriram;Nishnat Chandran;Vittal Ramamurthy; HN Bhaskar; BU Ganesh Prasad; Parur family;Mysore Srikanth; Vijayalakshmi; Padma Shankar; Hemalatha; Charumathi Raghuraman; Ranjani Ramakrishanan; Narmada; Akkarai Sisters... a long list. If they are paid well & given due recognition they will be motivated to excel. All of them are quite young. KNV

I completely agree with you that all the above violinists are great in their own right. But are all of them versatile? Can all of them accompany any contemporary vocalist and give a match? This versatility is what differentiates the 'greats' from the others.

I think any accompanying violinist would need to have the following traits to be a versatile and sought after accompanist.

1) Ability to match and reciprocate whatever challenges the vocalist offers them - raga phrases, sangathis and Kannaku during Ragam, Keerthanai and Kalpana Swarams/RTP's respectively.
2) Be able to play brigas/fast phrases and at the same hold ones own while playing a slow phrase.
3) Gather an EQUAL amount of applause as the vocalist, while playing ragam/Swaram.
4) Have a good repertoire of songs and be able to play most songs and not just play a complementary tune.
5) Single handedly draw crowds for their concerts irrespective of whom they are accompanying.

What makes LGJ stand out is that He had all the above traits and much more. I would be most willing to change my opinion if anyone provides recordings of other accompaniment artists doing the same.

From your list I feel S Varadarajan, Embar Kannan, Nagai Sriram, HN Bhaskar, Mysore Srikanth, Dr Hemalatha, Akkarai Subulakshmi and Parur family are MORE versatile. They can accompany say a TM Krishna , Sanjay and probably even Abhishek raghuram. RKS, Vittal and Padma Shankar can accompany only a certain type of vocalist and not EVERYONE ( My personal opinion )

Disclaimer - I havent heard much of Nishanth, Charumathi, BUGP and Ranjani. So wouldnt talk about them or include them in my arguments.

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 19 Aug 2013, 10:26

Few more points which I have missed

1) Sriram Parasuram hasnt yet figured in the above discussion ( I remember listening to one of his AIR solos and being amazed by his playing )
2) Though, Mysore Manjunath and Mysore Nagaraj dont frequently accompany singers, I am sure they are among the top few accompanists right now
3) Ganesh and Kumaresh used to accompany singers when they were in their teens ( TNS once recalled Kumaresh accompanying him when Kumaresh was 10 yrs old ). Does anyone have recordings of these two accompanying singers? It would add lot of detail to the discussion

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 19 Aug 2013, 10:31

hnbhagavan wrote:There is no doubt that Sri Lalgudi was the best accompaniment and he grew up extremely fast in the ladder.Between his age 20 - 50,Perhaps there was no parallel.
The versatility and quick response to tough musicians like GNB,MDR,KVN etc is his hall mark.
However,later MSG and TNK played stellar roles as extremely good violin accompanists.In the top slot,we can place as follows:
Lalgudi,MSG,TNK,MC,VVS in the earlier generation.

Reasons for VVS being the last? The fact that he didnt accompany that many TOP artistses or any other reason?

I think the violin accompanist should be judged purely on his own ability/merit and not which artist they have accompanied.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 19 Aug 2013, 12:54

Dear Mohan,

Sri Lalgudiji was responsible for bringing violin to the center stage.The violin duets of Lalgudi and his sister Shrimati from 1964 to 1972 was highly rated and even today those concerts are on higher platform compared to many performances today.The combination of Lalgudi ,Shrimati along with Palghat Mani Iyer was very highly rated.
Of course these have no direct relation to violin accompaniment.The wide range of musicians whom Lalgudiji has accompanied and musicians Nedunuri Krishnamurthy,Maharapuram santhanam,GN Balasubramanyam have openly acknowledged that his accompaniment took their concerts to greater heights.
Recently there were articles by S Varadarajan,a good violinist regarding Sri Lalgudi's accompaniment.I give here the link for the article(rajeshnat posting).

Re: Lalgudi reminiscences and tributes

Post #122 by rajeshnat » 11 May 2013 12:34
varadu's tribute of LGJ
http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... 698832.ece
Having said all this,I would like that this topic perhaps cannot be continued for long as several great musicians and rasikas are involved.
As i already pointed out the violin accompaniment was revolutionized by LGJ,MSG and TNK in each individual ways.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 19 Aug 2013, 14:27

shrikanth_mohan wrote:
1) Ability to match and reciprocate whatever challenges the vocalist offers them - raga phrases, sangathis and Kannaku during Ragam, Keerthanai and Kalpana Swarams/RTP's respectively.
2) Be able to play brigas/fast phrases and at the same hold ones own while playing a slow phrase.
3) Gather an EQUAL amount of applause as the vocalist, while playing ragam/Swaram.
4) Have a good repertoire of songs and be able to play most songs and not just play a complementary tune.
5) Single handedly draw crowds for their concerts irrespective of whom they are accompanying.

On top of those accomplishments, which largely amount to mastery of their instrument and expertise in the music, I think that the greatest skill of the accompanist is being able to adjust to the style, nature and flavour of the main artist they are accompanying, and yet to maintain their personal creativity whilst doing so.

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 19 Aug 2013, 20:33

Shrikanth- Charumathi Raghuram married to Anand,( Mridangist & grand son of Palghat Raghu) is student of TNK. Has excellent bowing technique & tonal quality like her master. Accompanies Ranjani & Gayatri & Gayatri Venkatraghavan & Ramakrishnamurthy.

BU Ganeshprasad is a student of VVS. Very talented & plays duet concerts with VV Ravi. Very talented & accompanies Shashank & few others. Ranjani Ramkrishnan is good. I don't know much about her. I have heard her accompanying Ramakrishnamurthy.

KNV

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 19 Aug 2013, 21:31

Dear Sri KNV,

A concert by KV Narayanaswamy accompanied by Lalgudi and Palghat Raghu which I attended in 1978 and I consider this a vintage concert.
D k Jayaraman,MSG,Sivaraman/MDR,Lalgudi/MSG/TNK/SSI/GNB with similar combination.There are many more.I consider all these people pioneers and they have laid a very good foundation.Now the present generation Sanjay/TMK/Ranjani and gayatri/Malladi Bros are carrying on and are giving excellent concerts.
It is but natural to compare the present day concerts with what we attended during earlier years.
It is our good fortune that we have good artists in vocal as well as instrumental to continue the art.
But certain people are classified as pioneers.
Even take the example of President,if we compare the present generation with Dr.Rajendra Prasad or Dr.Radha krishnan- you can draw your own conclusion.

shrikanth_mohan · Post by **shrikanth_mohan** » 19 Aug 2013, 22:50

Nick H wrote:
On top of those accomplishments, which largely amount to mastery of their instrument and expertise in the music, I think that the greatest skill of the accompanist is being able to adjust to the style, nature and flavour of the main artist they are accompanying, and yet to maintain their personal creativity whilst doing so.

Very aptly put Nick

Most of us recognise LGJ/TNK/MSG as being on top. I once again bring all your attention to VVS. I dont think he was any less talented/brilliant than the others. Infact some of his accompaniment to Tanjore S Kalyanaraman is legendary ( Evident from the recording i posted in one of my earlier posts )

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 20 Aug 2013, 08:36

Dear Mohan,

I think no one will differ with you regarding VVS as a good violin accompanist.I think it may be difficult to get a consensus candidate .All that i tried to highlight is the earliest pioneering efforts of LGJ/TNK/MSG.Just as Araikudi ramanuja Iyengar established a concert pattern which is followed now,Sri Lalgudi demonstrated that whatever others sing,he will reproduce.To a large extent he established Violin duet concerts with his sister.Later it became very popular and we have further contributions by MSG/TNK/VVS/MC.Sri M Chandrasekharan is als an accomplished accompaniment and solo player.
Sri MSG is a pioneer having mastery over Hindustani as well as carnatic forms.
Thank you for opening the topic and we had ver good discussions in the forum.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 20 Aug 2013, 15:18

We all know the handful of names that were or are geniuses as solo and/or as accompanist. What would be most interesting is if people can try to put their finger on the why and what of their accompanying skills and how they may have moved the art on in that respect, for example

Sri Lalgudi demonstrated that whatever others sing, he will reproduce

Picking a name at random, but from high on the list of today's accompanists (ok, not very random at all!) as an example, can people quantify just what it is that makes RKSK so brilliant in the role?

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 20 Aug 2013, 22:21

Just imagine a violinist with TNK tonal quality;Lalgudi brilliance & laya perfection & ability to play those mesmerising phrases of MSG. Ultimate in Carnatic Violin playing. :-BD Of course TNK stage presence .

KNV

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 21 Aug 2013, 09:45

Dear KNV,

You have aptly put it.Sri S Varadarajan,a contemporary violinist wrote an article regarding Sri Lalgudiji's accompaniment.Your observations strengthen my view that these three were the epoch makers in violin playing as Araikudi,GNB,SSI were in vocal.This does not mean that the present players are not good.As you have pointed out the violin outlook for accompaniment as well as solo is very bright.
I single out Sri M Nagaraj,MA Sundareshan ,RK Shriram Kumar and Nagai Muralidhran above the rest in accompaniment.However varadarajan , Embar Kannan,Narmada and Lalgudi Vijayalakshmi are not far behind in accopmpaniment.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 21 Aug 2013, 10:17

Apologies for gate crashing ...
My selection of the best examples will include
T Chowdiah playimg for GNB / CSM at Mysore 1956? .
The phase starting from Darini - coursing through a soulful reetigowla and upto the bhairavi is a mind boggling effort .
MM Iyer with TNK / VR in the concert with that lovely Vijayambike is another one
----
TKR goading Lalgudi with these words (to the audience ): Look at this guy respectfully nudging me about my not including some telling phrases in the raga with his playing those phrases as he follows me ....... Sareeee Daaaa Unakkage Padren .
Semmangudis , coaxing Lalgudi in the Suruti Varnam concert - after Lalgudi choses not to reply to the final flurry of swaras - and says Vasiyya --- then a pregnant puase , the violinist collecting his thoughts , and breaking into a reply - magical-
MSG's tailing of Emani every inch of the way in the concert which starts with Viriboni and has a huge brochevarevarura
----------
GS Mani once exclaimed (privately) to us - You guys run after the big names - But I adore chaps like Sikkil Bhaskaran / Thirupparkadal Veeraraghavan/T Rukmini .... who manfully accompanied us without a murmur in all those concerts in far flung places - for just a pittance and the presiding diety's blessings .
------
What was more interesting was that there would be all types of combinations possible.
We could pick on a vocalist and try all combinations.
That element is sadly missing today . Just another day at the office for most of the guys.
My personal view rests not necessarily on aspects best or most , but the fact that CM concerts provide such a magical opportunity to savour the phrases a second time in succession quickly - sometimes as an exact copy , sometimes as a complementary effort , sometimes adding short sparkles of light on the main artist -
The art of so many ways of saying the same thing is more prismatic in violin than in the main artist . The calibre gets captured to the tenth decimal of differentiation

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 21 Aug 2013, 11:10

What was more interesting was that there would be all types of combinations possible.
We could pick on a vocalist and try all combinations.
That element is sadly missing today . Just another day at the office for most of the guys.
My personal view rests not necessarily on aspects best or most , but the fact that CM concerts provide such a magical opportunity to savour the phrases a second time in succession quickly - sometimes as an exact copy , sometimes as a complementary effort , sometimes adding short sparkles of light on the main artist -
The art of so many ways of saying the same thing is more prismatic in violin than in the main artist . The calibre gets captured to the tenth decimal of differentiation

Beautifully said. Probably the best stuff I have read on this forum in a long time.
I especially appreciate your comment that there are so many beautiful ways of saying the same thing. I would go on to say that this is the one of the biggest reasons why I (and many others) love carnatic music.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 21 Aug 2013, 20:23

mahavishnu wrote:I especially appreciate your comment that there are so many beautiful ways of saying the same thing.

Or, to (mis)quote Arasi - 'sollAmal solludal' (the art of communicating through pauses and silence) is also possible!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 21 Aug 2013, 20:48

mahavishnu wrote:Beautifully said....

Seconded. Very, very well said, varsha.

radhasuryanarayanan · Post by **radhasuryanarayanan** » 22 Aug 2013, 10:13

Dear Shrikant Mohan..
Your analysis of violinists accompaniments point out that u r a devout LGJ fan.Fine.
But this can in no way rule out the greatness of the other real classical accompanists cum soloists.
In ur own case Shri LGJ was both an accompaniment cum soloist.
While in the case of Dr.Narmadha , an outstanding top soloist and a leading accompanist her violin record is phenomenal.
Sometimes u were voluntarily missing out facts out of ur bias or what do we call it.
Narmadha accompanied her own father for nearly 20 years and then rose to the level of duet performer which i consider is awesome.
The challenge of violin with violin is as challenging as violin accompanying singers.
Shri KNV also has mentioned all senior and junior names in one row.

Maybe KNV cud hv chosen to word the order rankwise.
U had mentioned criterions.a.b.c.for accompanying violinists.
But there s something more.
The first great thing abt accompaniment is to follow the main artist;and also display one's own zeal...
MSG, LGJ, TNK were sought after by leading musicians.
The list of the people whom u hv mentioned and the performers u hv compared seems pretty recent.plz take off some time to listen to Balamurali MSG combination;
Ariakudy TNK combination
Or Dhandapani Desikar LGJ combination.
Maybe u can handle or view this ur own topic better.
SriRam ParasuRam...is he still accompanying or left accompanying.
I see him very rarely do it as he is turning a singer though i like him more as an violinist.
See the track record of Narmadha, MysoreNagaraj...and other leading violinists of their calibre.
I honestly feel that a liking for a style or your interaction with an artist can in no way rule out the greatness of the really mellifluous meritorious violinists.
I agree with EEsha that u hv not mentioned the outstanding outpours of MSG or VVS.
What a bias u hv.
Plz get broad minded..if u close ur eyes u r ur only world.
But the world s so big.
Facts must carry some amount of honesty and fairness.
The list if accompaniments u hv are fairly a much later generation.
Dr.Narmadha had the twin adv of accompanying her own father (max) i should say amidst the triumvirate children and an amazing acclaimed record of accompaniments from senior most legends up to present day.
The analysis of accompanying can be highlighted by the stylistic outputs of the triumvirate.
Plz accept that violin is the sugar of the pie and the output of the instrument is so great u must make sure to quote facts in absolute transparency and honesty.
After All
Spade is a spade...

balasubramani · Post by **balasubramani** » 22 Aug 2013, 10:31

Hi Shrikanth,

Just because u have to become famous in rasikas.org u chose this topic and made it a controversy??? :-@ [-x
Have u ever tried to play or perform violin? to comment about others profession first u should know what it is to be in that profession.
just because u like lyrics u r praising vocal indirectly...
If u know to play violin and also if u r taking it as ur profession you will know what it is to be a soloist ...U dont know either..U can only create controversies like TM Krishna,the great singer cum controversy person..
May be u r very gud friend to that person,He didn't sing any concert without violin till today and even if he sings without any accompaniment,u see without violin or mridangam no one will praise or listen to his vocal music..but if violin is played or performed individually,every one will sit listen to it and praise it..it dosent have any dependency on vocal chord.. u see...

May be you will not understand...I think other than 'Carnatic music at Chennai' u have not attended kutcheris anywhere else on earth...
Only instrument that too violin is global not any others...I am sure u can see that...

Dont talk ill about violinist like this... violinist accompany in order to learn different styles of music and to present in their violin solo ...they are broad minded...they are not like u just seeing one side of the coin and creating controversies...

-Bala

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 22 Aug 2013, 11:05

Dear Radhasuryanarayan,

I think you are also biased.As you have accused Srikant,you have missed out Sri LGR Krishnan and Vijayalakshmi who are in duet since 3 decades.
I have no bias.I recognize Madam Narmadha as a great accompanist as well as solo performer.Even Lalgudi Viji is accompanying artists as well as performing duets.
So is the case with Sri M Nagaraj and Manjunath.
There are many others as KNV has listed out.
The only thing to be noted is that LGJ/TNK/MSG are epoch makers.The contribution of LGJ is his all round performance as a Musician and an excellent teacher having trained some leading vocalists.Without being unfair to younger generation,there is no need for you to bracket present day violinists with LGJ.
I was a fan of duets of MSG and Narmadha as well as LGJ with Krishnan or Vijayalakshmi.
The only thing to be noted is the pioneering efforts of LGJ to make it on center stage and this happened in Music Academy in 1965 .The duets became popular in the hand of Lalgudi and Srimathi.
All the present generations have great reverence to all the past masters and they do not bracket themselves with earlier generation.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 22 Aug 2013, 12:04

Dear RadhaSuryanarayan,

Some of the earliest recordings of Lalgudi with Shrimathi are available commercially as well as in Sangeethapriya.The Violin flow is soothing and without any gimmicks and to my mind,these duets are still unparalleled by any combination in the present generation.
Of course,TNK with Viji offered vintage music in the music season of 2012.
There was a single occasion in which the three styles of TNK/MSG/Lalgudi combined in a violin trio concert in 2010 represented by their illustrious children.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 22 Aug 2013, 12:29

Oh, for goodness sake... why must these topics degenerate into a squabble over names?

Everyone is entitled to their favourites. Everyone is entitled to use their favourite to illustrate examples. And having two user IDs does not double the power of an opinion/argument. Especially when it is barely readable anyway.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 22 Aug 2013, 12:46

I agree with Nick and this topic does not warrant further postings.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 22 Aug 2013, 21:32

IT DOES WARRANT more POSTINGS! I am not even writing anything because if I write that Kumbakonam Rajamanikam Pillai, Mayavaram Govindaraja Pillai, "Soundiah" Chowdiah, "Suswaram" Thiruvalangadu Sundaresa Iyer, Chittoor Gopalakrishnan, MC, R.K.Venkatarama Sastriar- for that matter any one who accompanied M.S.S. because Sri.T.Sadasivam made sure they were competent and good for their role-not to mention SEVERAL others WERE EQUALLY GREAT as Accompanists,
I can expect more brickbats than I am getting already...In my view LGJ, MSG, TNK BROUGHT a NEW DIMENSION to accompanying on the violin: LGJ in my view was one of the greatest MUSICIANS in MANY ASPECTS and DIMENSIONS of twentieth century Carnatic music, MSG was TECHNICALLY the BEST, TNK had the uncanny ability to bring out the greatness of anyone he accompanied. As I find the level of tolerance is low from my experience I just read & enjoy the opinions & writings of many here who after all are the custodians of the future of our music.
I also contend that there are many violinists of today who are EXCELLENT AS WELL AS IN OTHER INSTRUMENTS TOO.. VKV

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 23 Aug 2013, 15:48

Hmm...strange. I come to this thread expecting detailed discussions of all the leading yesteryear and present day accompanists with some superb clips and insights but instead it seems to have gone downhill into some sort of silly ranking system that is of no use to anyone who wants more insight into their music and the art of accompaniment. In the process, even the relevant points made here are being pushed into the background. So here's what I propose:

I don't think it's too late to salvage the thread yet. Let's say we take one violinist at a time and present some examples or insights into their accompaniment. For starters, let's start with MSG (my order is purely random) for now. Here's a video clip of his ragam and tanam accompaniment for MMI. The most amazing thing about this recording is how MSG successfully and effortlessly reproduces even the complex small brigha bursts of MMI which are full of jhantas and dhatus and are not so easy to reproduce on the violin. Also interesting is the sheer amount of plain notes sung in this version of Thodi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drGGjy2PV0k -- RTP in Thodi - Ragam & Tanam

And when we are done with plenty of examples of MSG we may move on to LGJ TNK VVS RKSK, etc...etc... all the names, big and small. We are nobody to rank the musicians when most of us can only dream of playing a single note like them. The performances in the tracks will represent the artists and speak for themselves. Considering the number of eminent violinists in CM and how many fantastic tracks of their performances are available, I think this thread will be going on for a very long time and should consolidate all these examples in one place. Let's hope this will be very beneficial for music lovers and students and rasikas of Indian violin. B-)

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 23 Aug 2013, 16:31

SrinathK wrote: And when we are done with plenty of examples of MSG we may move on to LGJ TNK VVS RKSK, etc...etc... all the names, big and small. We are nobody to rank the musicians when most of us can only dream of playing a single note like them. The performances in the tracks will represent the artists and speak for themselves. Considering the number of eminent violinists in CM and how many fantastic tracks of their performances are available, I think this thread will be going on for a very long time and should consolidate all these examples in one place. Let's hope this will be very beneficial for music lovers and students and rasikas of Indian violin. B-)

Srinath
If the comparison is not your intent and there is indeed a change in strategy , you can possibly go to the respective vidwan thread and just push your insights there , this is just like what mahavishnu/semmu did for few mrudangists a week back. There is nothing more beneficial than putting all in the right thread for music lovers and students for years to come.

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 23 Aug 2013, 16:56

If comparison is the goal of the thread, than maybe it would do well to just take up one vocalist / flautist, etc.. and compare all those who accompanied them to see just how different were the approaches of each violinist. Sometimes it might even be in the same raga or the same composition or even the same Pallavi. But then that purpose could be served by going to the respective vidwan/vidushi's page and posting there instead. In any case the recordings best speak for themselves. The moment there is a comparison on my favourite musician vs. yours, it's either time to run or declare truce and sign a peace treaty !

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 23 Aug 2013, 17:00

The world of music and all it's aspects is far too big for one person to explore in one lifetime ...