NEXT YEAR'S SANGITHA KALANIDHI

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 14 Aug 2013, 21:53

I wish to start an OBJECTIVE DISCUSSION ON THE CRITERIA which should be considered along with the various possible candidates for NEXT YEAR'S SANGEETHA KALANIDHI.
I will soon detail my list of CRITERIA here.
For starters I PROPOSE the name of Chitraveena Ravikiran. I will soon write MY criteria for the choice and evaluate him as to why he should be the UNANIMOUS CHOICE.
I also wish to state that I am doing this on my own and have NOT consulted any one else -not even my wife!- on this subject. V.K.Viswanathan (Los Alamos, N.M.) aka VKV(cacm)in this forum)

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 14 Aug 2013, 22:19

nice thread ! let's see if we can agree on the criteria for the award in this forum. I am all ears for your next post sir...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 14 Aug 2013, 22:25

performer, teacher, scholar, experience of decades ...all rated "great"

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 14 Aug 2013, 22:53

Wait till I announce the results of the current Poll...
Then we can discuss the constructive Role we (Rasikas.org) can play in SK selection..

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 14 Aug 2013, 23:05

MY INTEREST IS NOT IN A POST MORTEM OR IMAGINARY POWERS THIS FORUM MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE. I feel this poll only rehashes things expressed already in a slightly different way and can reflect only one piece of many data points......I am interested in the HISTORY as well as criteria and actual previous history of these awards esp. with respect to criteria historically used substantiated by STATEMENTS which are not heresay. I do not hide under pseudonyms etc. I will make statements made by persons esp. those that were verifiable at a certain level and DEFINITELY NOT SPECULATIONS. I am willing to face the facts openly. VKV

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 15 Aug 2013, 00:18

I am yet to see any "criteria" for SK. Most importantly, in today's world does SK mean anything? Outside of Chennai and perhaps, South India, no body knows or cares for this title.I have personal experience with more than one SKs where I tried to arrange gigs for them. Today's artists make a handsome living based on skype classes, arangetrams in the US and other activities they call "symphony", "fusion" etc etc. It has worked well for them. All that has nothing to do with SK. They have devised their own systems. Let them focus on that.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 15 Aug 2013, 00:23

MY CRITERIA FOR SELECTION FOR SELECTION AS SANGEETHA KALANIDHI
AT the outset I wish to state that I have been following the general subject of Awards of this nature since 1953 when I was involved in the activities of the Fine Arts Society in Madras Christian College in Tambaram. I have participated in choosing candidates for certain awards in Chennai and U.S.A. as a member or in an advisory capacity in most instances.
I also need to state that these awards are given by PRIVATE organisations in which even members are not privy to the choices, discussions etc.It will not come as a surprise to most persons that lots of unsavoury and questionable activities are involved. Consequently I will report ONLY on INCIDENTS, HAPPENINGS, STATEMENTS etc in which some mostly positive things are involved.
I do not wish to write about persons are not around to defend themselves or those who are around and can sue me!...TO BE CONTINUED)...VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 15 Aug 2013, 00:25

RKrishnamurthy wrote:I am yet to see any "criteria" for SK. Most importantly, in today's world does SK mean anything? Outside of Chennai and perhaps, South India, no body knows or cares for this title.I have personal experience with more than one SKs where I tried to arrange gigs for them. Today's artists make a handsome living based on skype classes, arangetrams in the US and other activities they call "symphony", "fusion" etc etc. It has worked well for them. All that has nothing to do with SK. They have devised their own systems. Let them focus on that.

Dear Sir,
YOU are showing your impatience by writing what I feel are IRRELEVENT things EVEN BEFORE I outline my criteria. PLEASE CRITIQUE THEM AFTER what I write NOT before ranting on your frustrations I AM QUITE AWARE OF. VKV

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 15 Aug 2013, 00:29

VKV
Are'n't you putting the cart before the horse?
You make a nomination and then want to list the critera for the choice!
How do you propose to generalize?

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 15 Aug 2013, 00:33

I AM WRITING THEM RIGHT NOW! THE POSTING GETS TO BE TOO LARGE. VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 15 Aug 2013, 00:51

MY CRITERIA FOR SELECTION OF SANGITHA KALANIDHI
I feel that to even survive professionally in Carnatic Music as an artist one has to be well above average and prove their abilities and skills beyond any reasonable criteria.The bar is indeed high for any one to be even considered. By the same token NO ONE so far has been perfect .....Here is a quick list (to be added on to based on suggestions by others) against which I hope to discuss the various Sagitha Kalanidhis I knew and know in due course.
1) Musical Pedigree including Gurus ETC.
2) Extra-ordinary talents early on and other indications.
3)Musical training, technical skills etc.
4) Public and Critical Acceptance.
5) Unique Contributions in their Speciality (like voice, instrument etc) involving Carnatic music and its related activities involving world music.
6) Communication Skills.
7) Critical opinions of contemporary artists and QUALIFIED PROVEN CRITICS( NOT JUST ANY CRITIC WRITING IN HINDU ETC- TODAY'S NORM).
8)NOW A DAYS, INTERNATIONAL COLLABORATIONS WITH WELL KNOWN ARTISTS, COMPOSERS, GENRES ETC.
9) Own Compositions etc.
10) Overall Stature.
I am restricting this list to TEN as it can get unwieldy. I request suggestions for Additions/Deletions.
PERIODICALLY I will write about Sangitha Kalanidhis I KNOW & KNEW and how they fit in my scheme with non-contoversial stories etc.
I will in future write why I feel Ravi Kiran gets close to 100 percent on this basis. It will take some time.
I REQUEST ACTIVE PARTICIPATION SO we can all get ENLIGHTENED. VKV

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 15 Aug 2013, 05:44

Mandolin Srinivas too!
Do you accept?
(I hope harimau doesn't get his BP high

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 15 Aug 2013, 05:53

I suggest the following are deleted:
1) Why should Musical pedigree be a criteria? If a musician is brilliant but doesn't have a famous guru, should it matter?
2) Why should the talent be early? Age should not be an indicator
6) Musicians communicate through their music. They need not have special oratory or writing (communication) skills.
8) This is an award basically for Carnatic music, why should collaboration with other genres really be a criteria? I agree it is a trend these days but it need not be a criteria.
9) There are only a handful of musicians who are composers. This need not be a criteria.

Also for (3) I would replace the word 'training' with 'ability' or 'acumen'

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 Aug 2013, 08:07

VKV,
Your post reflects the sentiments of many of us here on the forum. You have seen it spoken about in the SK thread before.

I'm just wondering. Isn't it a bit too early to discuss the next candidate for the SK award?
I mean, the award will be announced nearly a year from now! Reminds me of our US presidential elections, with endless months of canvassing! And people's attention span is much shorter these days. How even a very interesting topic loses out to the next interesting one!

Mohan,
All your points are relevant (not surprisingly). These qualifications add to a musician's worth, however.

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 15 Aug 2013, 08:23

Dear Sir,
YOU are showing your impatience by writing what I feel are IRRELEVENT things EVEN BEFORE I outline my criteria. PLEASE CRITIQUE THEM AFTER what I write NOT before ranting on your frustrations I AM QUITE AWARE OF. VKV

I am not frustrated or impatient with any thing. My musical talents are no where to aim at any awards. I just enjoy CM of yore, my youthful days. Let us admit. Today ,SK and other awards are a symbol for Tamil Brahmins in the age group 50-70 and more (me included). For the rest, which makes up the major population, it doesn't mean anything. There are so many great musicians in India as well as US who entertain us so well, we should bow our heads to them. I don't want to take names of individuals since I know some of the artists that are being discussed here so well that they are like my family and I respect them for their caliber and not for their being the likely candidate for an award. The best message MA can get is the SK is not as great as they they think it is in modern world and it it is time they set their house in order.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 Aug 2013, 08:44

Then, the Padma awards have to be shunned too, I guess--considering that bureaucracy gives out those awards!

From the musician's point of view, both Padma and SK awards are coveted, we know.Tradition does have a stronghold on people. However poorly managed a festival at a temple may be, religious folks get excited about it every year! It's like that, I suppose.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 15 Aug 2013, 10:47

Dear Rasikas,

The organization should have the liberty and competence to select the title given by it.In this respect,why SK should be singled out?Agreed,It is the most coveted and sought after award.The Music Academy in this case has competent people serving in the Executive Committee.Those who are serving in such committees have to spare considerable amount of time and energy to conduct the events in Music Academy.Judging by its performance,Music Academy has conducted itself ably to serve the art.Individual Rasikas can have their own opinion.
Instead of voting for SK,let Rasikas forum get together and organise events.Rasikas forum can also select annually Musicians for a suitable award.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Aug 2013, 14:21

Mohan's amendments all make good sense to me. The only thing that some of this age-dependent stuff indicates is that the person's skill and achievement is enduring, not just a passing peak. If that is indicated, then it does not matter when they started or who taught them etc etc. Of course, it is likely that the great artist will have started early with great teachers, and come from from a musical background, but it is not at all essential and certainly should not be obligatory.

Hariprasad Chaurasia is a shining example of a great musician with no musical pedigree: does not CM have any similar?

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 15 Aug 2013, 15:19

Shri VKV is not putting it as a condition..Pedigree..

That, that will give an additional advantage..other things being equal..

Research is one that Shri Raviji is having.. both with the Instrument and compositions...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Aug 2013, 15:52

I think that research is important indeed. Perhaps, as with some higher degrees, there should be a stipulation of original work?

eesha · Post by **eesha** » 15 Aug 2013, 16:41

TVG and VVS will satisfy most / all of the criteria

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 15 Aug 2013, 18:01

Hariprasad Chaurasia is a shining example of a great musician with no musical pedigree:

Hope Annapurna Devi does not get to read this :p

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 15 Aug 2013, 20:42

My hope is to receive all the feedbacks and then come up with a list against which ALL the persons deemed (by person writing) worthwhile are NUMERICALLY COMPARED and their TOTALS given a score.
Arasi: Having seen what goes on the S.K.Race in EARNEST STARTED on the day this year's awards were announced. So if there is any hope to influence things time is NOW.I hope to score Most of the recent S.K'S to see how they stack up. I hope to start by scoring them also.VKV

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 15 Aug 2013, 21:23

Dr. VKV
Great initiative, quite timely.
Kindly go ahead and generate a collective voice of long-time committed and active rasikas.

To my mind comes this:
Pedigree=Parampara
Technical Prowess and Scholarship =Lakshana
Concert career and appeal =Lakshya, Ranjakatwa
Teaching and research = Desire to perpetuate the great art
Creative cross-border collaboration =global mindset
Contribution to social causes = Social awareness
Camaraderie with fellow artistes = Sone pe suhaag

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 15 Aug 2013, 21:34

Mohan
Your points are right , but I am assuming that shri vkv's 10 points are not mandatory.

VKV sir
I can add few more points that I think can go more than your stated 10.

1. Musical Performance Longevity:
We have had discussion about few candidates where there was even a few decades of performance absenteeism . I am not stating that if they perform only at mylapore sabhas they can be considered as having longevity. At the same time they just cannot sing only in their home town temple festival . To an extent the musician should have continued musical performance - in the sense they should sing somewhere at regular intervals.

2. Ability to inspire a new generation of rasikas:
I think few of them get it , but many dont do this as he/she progressively moves.

3. Ability to professionally groom sishyas:
This is at times very tricky to spot. Some of the young promising sishyas groom so well with a less accepted guru and then come and attach to a well accepted and performing guru for branding purpose. To an extent that sishya becomes more known as a student of more popular guru. But with keen eyes and ears we all can spot what the sishya has taken from a well accepted guru . Ofcourse this criteria becomes the most mandatory criteria for sangeetha kalA acharya but I would not mind if it becomes a criteria for SK Too.

4. Look at only the music and not the musician :
I personally feel any sabha should only look at the music of the musician , even if any musician has bloated ego, arrogance,highly judgemental , may have ranted openly with the academy in the past etc that should not be detrimental in not awarding the coveted award

Also VKV Sir - On a side note ,not to side track what you have thought through, even before ravikiran is considered most eligible as per you ,cant we consider Prof TRS who has every criteria in abundance(atleast in my opinion numero #1 candidate ).

In short , #1 is my main point (Musical Performance Longevity) for your inclusion- may be a 11th mandatory point.
My #2nd point (ability to inspire a new generation of rasikas) can be bit optional this can also be questioned as it applies even only to few awarded sk's.
My #3rd point(Professionally groom sishyas) can be bit difficult to include.
My #4th point (look at the music and not the musician)is perhaps the reason of why many really competent artist lose out which few know but never comes to public- this is very likely to get shot down [-x .

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 15 Aug 2013, 22:18

I mentioned RAVI KIRAN because I feel he is UNIQUE & HIS TALENTS CANNOT BE QUESTIONED ON ANY LIST OF CRITERIA I CAN COME UP WITH......IDEA is to encourage DISCUSSIONS on some sort of OBJECTIVE BASIS & as Rajeshnat has correctly pointed out MY LIST is what is called "Stone Throwing" Document I am used to in my professional life which can be modified BASED ON INPUT by others. I am only interested in an objective analysis & discussion. VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 15 Aug 2013, 22:34

[quote="rajeshnat"]
Your points are right , but I am assuming that shri vkv's 10 points are not mandatory. I TOTALLY AGREE. ITS JUST A LIST & AS I HAVE SAID A "STONE THROWING" DOCUMENT.

Also VKV Sir - On a side note ,not to side track what you have thought through, even before ravikiran is considered most eligible as per you ,cant we consider Prof TRS who has every criteria in abundance(atleast in my opinion numero #1 candidate ).......OF COURSE the music, knowledge, & service of TRS IS UNQUESTIONABLY BEYOND ANY DISCUSSION. He also is a great friend of mine! I just wanted to start an objective discussion that was ABOVE just saying I am for this or that person. I hope to discuss many candidates living or dead.
I intend ANALYSING MANY MANY ARTISTS AFTER a discussion on CRITERIA. SK is just A SIDE SHOW to create some interest and address the question of whether WE as a group can have some influence. I am convinced BASED on PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE & EFFORTS I CAN STATE THAT THESE EFFORTS will count as one of the data points for the powers to be. Actually I CONGRAGULATE Sri. MURALI for LISTENING to suggestions on any aspect of M.A. though persons like me are NOT MEMBERS & HAVE ZERO RIGHTS IN THE PROCESSES. VKV

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 15 Aug 2013, 23:20

Longevity as Concert performer should be given due weightage. Also everything being more or less equal, age should also be criteria in giving awards. It hurts Seniors when a Junior is preferred because he or she has mass appeal. Mass appeal alone cannot be criteria in awarding Artists particularly in Classical Arts. KNV

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Aug 2013, 02:03

Good point KNV!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 16 Aug 2013, 03:28

KNV1955 wrote:It hurts Seniors when a Junior is preferred because he or she has mass appeal.

Sure, but does it hurt seniors when a "junior" is preferred because they score high in all the criteria? A person who does so must surely have the respect of "seniors" too. If they do not, then they almost certainly are not going to fit here, where nobody is going to suggest mass appeal as a criterion.

In a way, the perfect SK would be someone that no serious member of the music community, performing, teaching or listening, could possibly object to. Perhaps, in that idealised world, SKs would not be awarded, but recognised.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 16 Aug 2013, 03:45

I think any and all talk of mass appeal for an traditional/classical art form should be viewed with extreme skepticism. ymwhisle

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 16 Aug 2013, 06:54

cacm wrote

1) Musical Pedigree including Gurus ETC.
2) Extra-ordinary talents early on and other indications.
3)Musical training, technical skills etc.
4) Public and Critical Acceptance.
5) Unique Contributions in their Speciality (like voice, instrument etc) involving Carnatic music and its related activities involving world music.
6) Communication Skills.
7) Critical opinions of contemporary artists and QUALIFIED PROVEN CRITICS( NOT JUST ANY CRITIC WRITING IN HINDU ETC- TODAY'S NORM).
8)NOW A DAYS, INTERNATIONAL COLLABORATIONS WITH WELL KNOWN ARTISTS, COMPOSERS, GENRES ETC.
9) Own Compositions etc.
10) Overall Stature.

Based on these criteria, I nominate K. J. Yesudas.

1) Guru is Chembai Vaidyanayha Bhagavathar.
2) to 4) Self evident.
5) Has anybody else done this and been written up on BBC? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3784767.stm

Sings rare ragas and krithis. Works hard at his craft. Enormously popular with audiences all over the world.

As to those of you who question his credentials, earlier this year he sang a RTP in the first 36 melakartha ragas at the Bharathiya Vidya Bhavan, Chennai. But for lack of time, he would have sung the RTP in all 72 melakarthas.

I will now wait and watch you all have a cardiac arrest!

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 16 Aug 2013, 07:26

DKP did not have a pedigree perhaps.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 16 Aug 2013, 07:48

kvchellappa wrote:DKP did not have a pedigree perhaps.

Sorry, but this is patently untrue. Her guru TL Venkatarama Iyer was himself a Sangitha Kalanidhi!

On top of that, she learned from everyone including Ambi Dikshitar (direct descendant of MD), complex pallavis from Naina Pillai & Papanasam Sivan's compositions directly from him. It is not by sheer luck or just good fortune that her pAtantaram is world-class!

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 16 Aug 2013, 07:50

harimau's choice is not bad! I support !!

criteria is fine, and then we need to come up with points against each of criteria. what would be the guideline to avoid point in scale of 1 to 5? again, subjectivity comes..

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 16 Aug 2013, 07:51

cacm wrote:MY CRITERIA FOR SELECTION OF SANGITHA KALANIDHI

1) Musical Pedigree including Gurus ETC.
2) Extra-ordinary talents early on and other indications.
3)Musical training, technical skills etc.
4) Public and Critical Acceptance.
5) Unique Contributions in their Speciality (like voice, instrument etc) involving Carnatic music and its related activities involving world music.
6) Communication Skills.
7) Critical opinions of contemporary artists and QUALIFIED PROVEN CRITICS( NOT JUST ANY CRITIC WRITING IN HINDU ETC- TODAY'S NORM).
8)NOW A DAYS, INTERNATIONAL COLLABORATIONS WITH WELL KNOWN ARTISTS, COMPOSERS, GENRES ETC.
9) Own Compositions etc.
10) Overall Stature.

I am not sure I agree with this list of criteria; performing early applies to all greats - someone mentioned Lalgudi Jayaraman was also a prodigy.
In my view, the Guru does not matter after some time. GNB's Guru were not as illustrious as Poochi Srinivasa Iyengar

There are some musicians who almost provide a definition for the award. Those are : GNB, Ariyakudi, Semmangudi, ...

1. A performing musician, it is not enough be a great musician scholar but not performing. ( I can think of examples ).
2. A teacher, whose students are also performers (S. Kalyanaraman, MLV, or KVN, Rajam Iyer, or Swathi Thirunal academy)
3. A composer (Vaggeyakara) (GNB compositions, Tiruppavai, ...)
4. A trend-setter (a role model for many musicians - GNB or Ariyakudi or Semmangudi bani is still followed by many).

Regarding writing, GNB's articles on music are so thought provoking.

tiruppugazh · Post by **tiruppugazh** » 16 Aug 2013, 08:00

I think KJY's inability to sing common ragas should also help his case :p

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 16 Aug 2013, 08:37

I agree with Nick's comments.The perfect SK would be someone that no serious member of the music community, performing, teaching or listening, could possibly object to. Based on this broad criteria Jesudas will not get a single vote of Expert Committee members of MA. Jesudas deserves Padma Vibhushan for his contribution to Film Music. Like Kunnakudi he was not a serious practitioner of Carnatic Music. We have huge no of artists who have all the qualifications but failed as consistent performing artists for some reason or other. These artists are given Sangita Acharya Award. Having ignored VVS (fully qualified but anti establishment); TVG (strangely failed to sustain as a concert performer particularly as a vocalist, but still deserves fully) & THV (Upa pakkavadyam & stopped playing in Carnatic concerts 20 years back) it is not difficult to choose artists for the coveted title for next 15 years. Aruna Sairam/Sowmya/Jaishree/Ranjani & Gayatri/Nithyashree/Sanjay/TMK/Vijay Siva/Unni Krishnan/ Shriramkumar/Malladi Brothers/Mysore Nagaraj(?)/Abhishek/Ravikiran/Srinivas/Shashank/Jayanthi Kumaresh/Visaka Hari/Varadarajan...( assuming all of them would continue to maintain their stature as top ranking performers) The only criterion you can apply to filter the list year after year is age. I may not be around to see all of them getting the award. There isn't much to debate. KNV

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 16 Aug 2013, 08:44

Dear Sir,
YOU are showing your impatience by writing what I feel are IRRELEVENT things EVEN BEFORE I outline thmy criteria. PLEASE CRITIQUE THEM AFTER what I write NOT before ranting on your frustrations I AM QUITE AWARE OF. VKV[/quote]

When I said "criteria" I did not mean you and don't use words like ranting and frustrations. I meant the the MA. Can they provide us with the criteria theyfollow? They wont because they care less. In my book it is all a scam at least in recent years with The Hindu being the main culprit.Remember how they hounded out the Nelli Sari shop guy based only on cast? He would have been a much better choice.

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 16 Aug 2013, 09:13

I feel the present president Mr Murali has done a good job so far. Infact I was very happy when he fought for Palghat Raghu ( I understand he was not an unanimous choice) & gave him the award. Giving Lalgudi Jayaraman the Life Time Achievement award is also a great gesture. In the past there were some notable omissions like MDR/Ramnad Krishnan/Lalgudi/S Balachander. (I suppose only this four). MA should keep a watch on the general health of the prospective awardees. Like in case of MDR it was known to many people that he was not keeping good health & yet ignored. Ramnad Krishnan also didn't maintain good health. Balachander may have rebelled but still deserved to get the award. The politics behind all these names are well known & now documented in this forum. 25 years later a new Sriram or Ram Narayan can talk about all this in TAG centre during music Season to packed gathering. KNV

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 16 Aug 2013, 09:37

KNV Sir
Liked your post #38th post .YOu mentioned roughly 19 candidates , 15 of them I agree 4 I donot , let it be with myself who those four are .I would like to add another 2 illustrious artists who are mannargudi easwaran and Srimushnam raja rao to your list .
I liked the first part of your post where you mentioned the reasons for artists like TVG,VVS and THV very much in line on what I was thinking. Infact I would like to add even Smt parasala ponnammal (a fine musician who certainly did not have performance longevity).

On your #40th post , Ramnad krishnnan sir died in 1973 , it would have been certainly quite out of turn to give it that year to him, Even T Brinda got it in 1976 . I am told in the forum that lalgudi was given but he refused as he felt it was late . SB I agree with you. MDR , I liked your point considering the health they should have given , may be apart from MDR one really glaring omission was madurai somu who lived upto 70 years, he died in 1989. I personally felt Academy skipping awards in 1946(dont know the reason), 1967(T's 200 th centenary) and 1975 (MD's 200th centenary) for three years did not create three more deserving SK's. It still beats me why they skipped those 3 years. Thank god they did not skip for 200th centenary of shyama sastri.

It is always easy to say who will surely get in the next 20 years, but the difficult thing is to guess who will get the next year

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 16 Aug 2013, 09:44

KNV1955 wrote:I feel the present president Mr Murali has done a good job so far. Infact I was very happy when he fought for Palghat Raghu ( I understand he was not an unanimous choice) & gave him the award.

Thank you for this information , this is news to me . Thank god they did it , if they had delayed one more year , shri raghu would not have got as he passed away.

tiruppugazh · Post by **tiruppugazh** » 16 Aug 2013, 09:55

In the past there were some notable omissions like MDR/Ramnad Krishnan/Lalgudi/S Balachander. (I suppose only this four).

Nonsense! What about Dandapani Desikar, Madurai Somu, C.S.Sankarasivan, T.N.Rajarathnam, Karakurichi Arunachalam, Nachiarkoil Raghava Pillai, Needamangalam Meenakshisundaram Pillai, Valangaiman Shanmughasundaram Pillai, Pazhani Subramania Pilla, C.S.Murugabhoopathy??? Or is it your '......' bias that is making you not mention these illustrious musicians?

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 16 Aug 2013, 09:56

tiruppugazh wrote

"I think KJY's inability to sing common ragas should also help his case"

Absolutely.

After all, didn't someone get Sangeetha Kalanidhi for making mainstream ragas out of Basant Bahar, Revathi and the AIR signature tune?

)

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 16 Aug 2013, 09:58

cacm wrote:I am convinced BASED on PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE & EFFORTS I CAN STATE THAT THESE EFFORTS will count as one of the data points for the powers to be. Actually I CONGRAGULATE Sri. MURALI for LISTENING to suggestions on any aspect of M.A. though persons like me are NOT MEMBERS & HAVE ZERO RIGHTS IN THE PROCESSES. VKV

With that assurance , I wanted to point out one more thing , which perhaps many did not observe in the forum:

The sangeetha kalanidhi award in the last 4 years is now called as sangeetha kalanidhi ms subhalakshmi award and is not called just sangeetha kalanidhi award. I am not sure why a generic award be named with the artist - Smt MS amma . MS amma is a great artist no doubt , but she is just one SK . Just imagine in years to come , One cannot reference say sangeetha kalanidhi ms subhalakshmi award was given to semmangudi in 1947. This also has to be relayed and corrected. I want them to revert back to the original plain sangeetha kalanidhi award.

tiruppugazh · Post by **tiruppugazh** » 16 Aug 2013, 10:00

After all, didn't someone get Sangeetha Kalanidhi for making mainstream ragas out of Basant Bahar, Revathi and the AIR signature tune? )

And someone got the Sangeetha Kalanidhi for tuning Telegu songs found in copper plates

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 16 Aug 2013, 10:20

[quote="pattamaa"]harimau's choice is not bad! I support !!
criteria is fine, and then we need to come up with points against each of criteria. what would be the guideline to avoid point in scale of 1 to 5? again, subjectivity comes..

I AGREE with what you have written. My view is once CRITERIA are agreed upon then we give weighted points for each of them and add them all up when we evaluate a candidate. This is just an exercise to somewhat express in more detail the reasons for choice & importance of each criteria.
It is not necessary to go by the score if one does not wish to. This procedure will give an idea of most members of panels go through instead of JUST saying I like A or B etc. I intend doing it for my own edification anyway..... Obviously one can try to be clever. In my opinion every one here is smart, clever, and most of them are cleverer than me.

Of course this entire area can be classified as SUBJECTIVE. We can get into discussions on Subjective VS Objective truth, WHY IS A PICASSO A PICASSO etc.....
My attempt is to generate some intersting discussions & I PERSONALLY consider the title of S.K. as useless as my Ph.D. and several awards I was lucky to get.....VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 16 Aug 2013, 10:27

harimau wrote:
I will now wait and watch you all have a cardiac arrest!

YOU may not be let into the ICU! THANKS FOR YOUR HEALTH CONCERNS FOR ALL OF US.. If you consider it as a joke you I hope realise there are many who can suffer this blissful state because of their age or other reasons and may not like your brand of Smart-aleckiness. VKV

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 16 Aug 2013, 11:08

Dear SriKNV,

I wish to add to your list Vidwan GJR KRISHNAN,Vijayalakshmi and NARMADA in the violin category.Lalgudi Siblings are performing duets since 3 decades and they deserve the title at least in the next 3-5 years.
But the tallest claimant is MADURAI GS MANI.He is a very knowledgeable artist and gives very good concerts.
Sri NEYveli Santana Gopalan deserves consideration in the next few years.

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 16 Aug 2013, 12:02

Tirupugazh - I agree with you. No bias whatsover. Frankly I have not heard the music of these artists. I have only heard of these musicians as great performers.(Madurai Somu I have heard once at Academy). Definitely Somu, Pazhani Subramania Pillai, T.N.Rajarathnam, Karakurichi Arunachalam, are glaring omissions like MDR etc. Pl don't bring this caste bias into picture. Probably it is in your mind. I am a great fan of Viswa, Bala, Brinda, TMT etc. Viswa played for my marriage & was a family friend & well wisher. TMT was also like one of the family members.

I missed out Santhangopalan. (this is what I meant by mass appeal. They are not on top of your mind). No one will miss out Nithyasree or Jaishree. I have a strong feeling Ravikiran will get next year. Based on Nick formula, even if some seniors are by passed I don't think any one will feel bad given Ravikiran's vidwat. He has been performing in Academy for more than 25 years & was a Child prodigy. Will someone draw the seniority list & post it? Then we can I have some fun electing for the next 20 years. KNV