NEXT YEAR'S SANGITHA KALANIDHI

[cacm]

The exercise in scoring or attributing numbers to subjective criteria is merely a way of trying to legitimize an inherently biased process. It is obvious from your scores that you have not listened much to concerts by Smt Sudha Ragunathan (this is evident by your comment under point 9.) Hence, you are not even entitled to rate such an artiste........

I am not trying to legitimize anything nor I am claiming to be expert. I am just an ordinary joe who happens to have learnt carnatic music for close to 10 years & listened to carnatic music music for over 60 years. Reg Smt. Sudha Ragunathan I do not claim to have listened to her concerts to the extent you may desire but I have listened enough of her concerts. I believe she is very talented having observed her as MLV'S Student- I am a huge fan of GNB& MLV- from those days onwards. I am also aware of all the good social work she does. Thats why you should come up with your own criteria & scores. Having spent close to 3 years taking courses on linguistic relativity & subjective & objective truths I never my self claim to be OBJECTIVE. In a sense forums like these are similar to what is called Market Places in which each one expresses their opinions & views. I will be interested in your scoring as well as your own list of criteria.
Incidentally I am hoping to write about the LACK of consistent criteria in the choice of S.K. by M.A. since 1950.. If you go back & read my posts I started with saying for any one to get anywhere they have to be well above ordinary talent. I am glad Smt. Sudha Ragunathan got the award; This exercise has to do with trying to understand & may be self consistent criteria can be arrived at.
VKV - not sure why are you typing in all caps?

......BEC OF BEING OLD I HAVE DIFFICULTY SWITHCHING TO SMALL TYPE; I do not have reading glasses so find it easier to just stay in caps. If its offensive to you I will shift to non-caps.

[cacm]

This is an open democratic Forum.
Every one is welcome to share their personal views right or wrong as long as they are not offensive.
Again difference of opinion and a decent debate is always welcome...
<Moderator>

THANKS. VKV

[Pratyaksham Bala]

The purpose of this thread is served!

The heading reads "NEXT YEAR'S SANGITHA KALANIDHI", and like a government tender with several conditions which could be met only by an already decided winner, this thread has come up with several criteria best suited for one particular candidate!

MA might have used a different set of criteria to select Smt. Sudha Raghunathan!

[cacm]

I DO NOT KNOW what a government tender is having lived in USA for close to 60 years & too young to know(25) when I lived in MADRAS.
PLEASE CHANGE THE CRITERIA AND THE WEIGHTS. I may have a candidate but its for others to come up with their own & say why they are more suitable.
I am sure MA used different criteria to choose Smt.Sudha Raghunathan. ULTIMATELY they are the ones who have the power & vote. We- at least I- have very little say. It was suggested if we could influence them somehow. This could be one way? JUST WONDERING...
IDEA is to come up with names & justify it with quantifiable numbers. VKV

[KNV1955]

I am bit surprised at the % negative votes for Sudha in this forum.(I didn't participate in the voting) In my opinion Sudha is a deserving candidate for SK. She has come up the hard way. With no music background in the family & hailing from a middle class background she has grown steadily in the field with sheer hard work. Her concerts are well structured & she doesn't resort to any gimmicks. No doubt age is catching up & her best days are over. It is a different matter whether Ravikiran should have been given ahead of Sudha. As much as I know Ravikiran entered the field ahead of Sudha & should have been given this year. Such aberrations are plenty in the selection of SK all thorough its history. Besides Nick's broad suggestion of acceptance by Music Fraternity, no of years of service put (measured by no of years the artist has performed in Academy) shall be the criteria for conferring the coveted title Sangita Kalanidhi.( if this criteria is applied Jesudas, those who have refused to cooperate with Academy & some other names mentioned in this forum will automatically get disqualified.) I am still looking for someone to give the seniority list (agewise). Next year SK is more or less confirmed as far I am concerned. It is Ravikiran. We can debate with the list for subsequent years.
KNV

[cacm]

Dear KNV,
I happen to have followed the "goings on" reg. choosing S.K.'S SINCE 1950 & hope to write about it in this thread as it develops. By the way you shd. be proud of your dad Sri.K.V.N. who always insisted on musicians SENIOR to him should be honoured before him.....I have nothing against Sudha except the criteria I chose & stand by happened to give her lower scores which does not MEAN MUCH.. I have very high regard for her as a person, artist, etc but once you are a professional in a public field comparisons on some scale are bound to be made. Again I repeat she was chosen by the M.A. & I AM VERY GLAD SHE WAS CHOSEN especially as my vote does not count. I am interested in making sense! Lets leave SUDHA & RAVI KIRAN out & talk about others....VKV

[Nick H]

VKV - not sure why are you typing in all caps?

He always does. Years ago, I tried to convince him about internet conventions and SHOUTING. The conversation became quite HEATED, but now we are the best of FRIENDS

[KNV1955]

VKV Sir- I understand your point of view. To bring objecivity in the selection of SK is definitely desirable. I would like to see your scores of past SKs though it is bound to create some heated debate. KNV

[thanjavooran]

In my personal opinion Shri VKV Avl could have waited for few more weeks/months before nominating the future SKs [2014/15]
Thanjavooran
20 08 2013

[cacm]

In my personal opinion Shri VKV Avl could have waited for few more weeks/months before nominating the future SKs [2014/15]
Thanjavooran
20 08 2013

Dear Sir,
My aim is not this year or next year's S.K. For this forum (in my opinion) is to have any impact on the M.A. Selection Committee should hear JUSTIFIABLE (with some sort of QUANTIFIABLE) OPINIONS-not necessarily agreeable-. I am starting a separate thread describing my (verified) knowledge of the S.K. "Proceedings & Machinations" for the same purpose. I hope others will share their knowledge especially anything that CONTRDICTS what I will be writing.

REG Smt. Sudha Raghunathan, I am fully AWARE of her musical activities as well as EXEMPLARY activities in various other areas including APPEALING during Cleveland Festivals which shows her MAGNANIMITY as well as GENUINE interest in promoting Carnatic Music. Also THERE IS NO QUESTION of her popularity. So criticise me or my criteria but importantly COME UP with YOUR OWN criteria & lets not get dragged out by temptations to say the other person ALWAYS has his selfish reasons for his views.
I request for more candidates especially with scores so we can at least compare "eligible" GREAT ARTISTS. I contend that ALL of them are GREAT in their own ways. VKV

[Nick H]

In my personal opinion Shri VKV Avl could have waited for few more weeks/months before nominating the future SKs [2014/15]

Shall we have a poll on that?

(we used to have a lovely mischievous devil smiley but it's gone)

[cacm]

Nick,
Great Suggestion! I second it. I already can predict what the result is likely to be too! Thats why I am about to start another NEW TOPIC which hopefully will address what I WOULD LIKE ADDRESSED. I hope I have the appropriate mix of upper& lower case letters. Any way my respects to you..... Tho' I learnt English from Drs. A.J.BOYD, REVS Mcphail & MacNicol -all from SCOTLANDtho! Hope Murray's wimbledon win after 77 years after Perry softens things!- I have regressed & degenerated from the then Wren & Martin English Grammar Rules by living in in God's country for too long. Regs(hope it is o.k. & in keeping Emily's code!) VKV
) [-x :-@ :-Q :-BD :-ss :ymapplause:

[devan]

if brahmamokatae and vishamakaran kannan are not gimmicks ,then what is gimmick ?

[Ponbhairavi]

when there is a competition and people apply for it, to adjudge the winner there should be a set of criteria and the person selected gets a prize. An award is given as per choice of the giver and need not be justified to anybody. The item no10 and particularly11 in the criteria list become paramount and its evaluation by the giver gets the maximum preponderance and overrides all others. Equality of marks is not a prescription.
Trying to guess what could have been the criteria of an award already made or trying to regulate how it should be in future are exercises in futility
The Value . of an award in a society is subjective and lies in what the society( or a section thereof) thinks of the giver and the recipient.
As our forum consists of knowledgeable and committed rasikas, the best thing is to institute an award and I would like to resubmit my suggestions at post78 for consideration

[cmlover]

You are right Ponbhairavi.
But there are huge logistics probems.
In this thread VKV is discussing criteria for the SK award.
Please start a new thread and thrash out your ideas...

[harimau]

devan asked

if brahmamokatae and vishamakaran kannan are not gimmicks ,then what is gimmick ?

In another 50 years, krithis by Sri Thyagaraja, Murhuswami Deekshithar and Syama Satri in Kalyani, Kambhodi, Todi, Bhairavi and Sankarabharanam would be the gimmicks.

Because, by then Carnatic music would have degenerated into a string to tukkadas. (

[cacm]

GOOD ONE! YOU may turn out to be right too........VKV

[arasi]

VKV,
And we won't live to see that day!

[cacm]

HOPE SO! ANYWAY for some one like you with V.V. Sadagopan for uncle not to mention so many illustrious others it must be at least shocking to say the least.....In my view this is as bad as glaciers melting, global warming!....VKV

[thanjavooran]

Rightly said Arasiji and VKV Avl.
Again a famous saying
Old order changeth yielding place to new........
Thanjavooran
21 08 2013

[Nick H]

by then Carnatic music would have degenerated into a string to tukkadas.

we won't live to see that day!

That day is, for some performers and audiences, with us already. I have seen the enemy and its name is ...oh, never mind, you all know anyway )

[girish_a]

In another 50 years, krithis by Sri Thyagaraja, Murhuswami Deekshithar and Syama Satri in Kalyani, Kambhodi, Todi, Bhairavi and Sankarabharanam would be the gimmicks.

Because, by then Carnatic music would have degenerated into a string to tukkadas. (

You are being too hopeful. In the next 50 years, Carnatic music will have been banned in the Islamic Republic of India.

[venkatakailasam]

girish_..

It may not take that much time...

[cmlover]

To avoid that contingency a genius performer ( Rav Kiran ?) should set Quran to nice CM Raga tunes for chanting.
GS Mani once stated that the present recitation is MMG.

[Nick H]

Very bad jokes. Consider the number of muslim names in Hindustani music.