kalyani vs shankarabharana

[Vidya Shankara Kukke]

Hi,

Could you all please provide your views on how these 2 ragas differ/ should be handled?

Thanks,
VSK

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

First Sankarabharanam's prathimadhyamam raga is Kalyani. Strictly speaking the only difference on the surface is the Madhyamam--suddha Maddhyamam for Sankarabaranam and Prathi Madhyamam for kalyani. But otherwise they are astly different even when one uses the common phrases.

1.In Sankarabharanm when singing alapana the Gandharam(Anthara gandharam) has to be steady without any oscillations or Gamakams. For Kalyani the Gamakams are a must in the Gandharam.Remember it is the same antharagandaram--the prayogam of the Ga is vastly different.I had given a mathematical interpretation for this in one of my posts in this thread.
2.The proper way to start Kalyani Raga Alapana according to MS Amma is to start with Pa Ma Ga--unequivocally declares Kalyani. Many musicians start with Ga Ri Ga--sounding like Mohanam. Sankarabaranam should start with Ga Ma.
3. Both the ragas are enriched by omitting oneswara or other-Sa Da Pa in the descent for Sankarabaranam omitting the Nishadam-omitting Panchamam in the descent for Kalyani--some phrases that appeal to me Ni Ri Ga Ma Dha Nee(no panchamam an yet does not sound like any other raga which may be missing panchamam .
3. The two varnams in each of the two ragas(Sankarabaranam and kalyani) are different testifying to the wide lattiude indulged in by musicians.
4. To get a clear picture(audio) one should listen to the trinity's compositions in these 2 ragas. Different facets of the ragas will be visible.In Md's compositions in Kalyani--Sivakameswari is vastly different from Bhaja Re Chitta or the nanavarna krithi Kamalamba. Like wise in Sankarabaranam,the Dakshinamurthe(MD) is different from Sarojadala Netri(Shyama sastry).I would commend listening to MD's Nottuswara compositions--the Sankarabaranam note starts with P Pa Ga in the elegant Nottuswaram) song.

I

In summary these two rags are as different

[harimau]

Yesterday evening, I was listening to Smt Lalitha Sivakumar on the radio.

Neraval for a song in Sankarabharanam was at the line 'Samaganollasini Kalyani'.

I was wondering why the composer didn't use 'Sankari' instead of 'Kalyani'.

Perhaps to confuse the average listener!

[mahavishnu]

Here is a good practical demonstration by Sri Rama Varma.
http://youtu.be/8BF72HCe7fM (listen from about 1:20 in this video)

[tanapp]

Did a Kalyani alapana in a recent concert. Will post through my SOundcloud account for fellow member rasikas' feedback. Thanks.

[tanapp]

Prince Rama Varma is a great teacher - always learned from his performance videos or tutorial videos.

[tanapp]

What really got me on the Kalyani fever was the article on parrikar.org (by MV Ramana) on Kalyani - there are some grand audio uploads in there, which focus on how the masters of the past have handled this queen of ragas.

As is the case, every note in Kalyani can be oscillated, especially the Ma2. I was afraid of attempting that for the fear of confusing it with Yemen (from an audience point of view) but as long as I kept the other phrases rolling in and out, I thought it may be alright. So I did dwell on Ma2 for sometime (I have never really attempted it before).

Ga, Ma, Pa, Ni, Sa', Ri' (brief) and Ga' were my loci, so to speak. During my practices, I was dwelling on Da, but it did not happen live for some reason.

Also, the raga signature is to be established as fast and clearly as possible per my guru and as a rule - so I started off at Pa and did a quick avarohanam of Kalyani, thereby eliminating close possibilities like Latangi etc.

At some point, I will load the entire kriti in a more 'public' way. For now, please feel free to suggest with this soundclip of how I may improve.

https://soundcloud.com/ad-shanks/kalyani-alapana

Cheers!

[vasanthakokilam]

Here is a good practical demonstration by Sri Rama Varma.
http://youtu.be/8BF72HCe7fM (listen from about 1:20 in this video)

Thanks mahavishnu for the link. Sri. Rama Varma is a good communicator. That is a succinct demonstration that the manner in which the note is approached contributes to the big difference between kalyani and shankarabharanam even for sequences that do not use Madhyamam. What Sri. Rama Varma is saying is, for kalyani, you approach each note from the upper note where as shankarabharanam it is from the lower note. Even if someone wants to nitpick at this generalization, I think it is true to the first level of approximation.

I have a question. Is Shankarabharam Ga always steady? Definitely, steady Ga is one of its characteristics and it sounds beautiful indeed. But It does not sound to be steady in many cases. As an example, the beginning of Dakshinaamoorthee goes ' S R2 G3;' ( before the kshina ), is the 'G' shaken? Or it is the approach from R2 make it sound that way to me? It is possible my lack of swara gynana is making me interpret it this way. Can someone enlighten on this, this specific example as well as the general nature of G3 in 29.

Thanks.

[tanapp]

Dear vasanthakokilam,

here is a lec-dem by Neyveli sir on Shankarabharanam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_lgRS75lAU

[Rsachi]

VKM, et al, in my internalisation of CM, I hold GA in a special place. I find that GA is a great landing in the staircase of swaras. I think the ability to vocalise music and sing lyrics heavily depends on this landing.
And GA goes with SA and PA very well in so many ragas.
I am of course referring to the GA Of Shankarabharana here. And not oscillating GA is key to its strengths I think.

Would someone kindly translate my pidgin to lakshaNa terminology?

[tanapp]

RSachi, VK:

G3 oscillation outright eliminates Shankarabharanam. Please see a short video sample of my guru's guru Ravikiran Sir illustrating the scale, sequence with Kalyani.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i974v-Nk9g

In all Shankarabharanam I have learned and listened to, G3 is always plain. M1 in Shankarabharanam can have plain, mild and wide oscillating gamakams depending upon whether the intent is to remain at M1, go up the scale to Pa or descend.

Critically and intensively listening to various stalwarts present this and other raga will impress in our minds how the melodies should be handled.

[RaviSri]

As an example, the beginning of Dakshinaamoorthee goes ' S R2 G3;' ( before the kshina ), is the 'G' shaken?

In the Dhanammal pATam which I learnt from Mukthamma, in the place where you mention, the G is not shaken. Before kshiNA, it is SGRG. The G occurs also as a poDi swaram in conjunction with R, in the second sangati, therefore the illusion that it is shaken.

Or it is the approach from R2 make it sound that way to me?

Yes it is.

One aspect many people overlook in Sankarabharanam is the fact that the Arohana M is different from the Avarohana M. The M in Arohana always goes from the G. Veena players after playing the G, play the M from the G position itself. Therefore the Arohana M is not exactly M1, it is slightly less. The Avarohana M is played independently after the P, so the Avarohana M is exact M1. This difference has to be taken into account.

There has been this trend of singing the so-called mELa ragas straight like a staircase or a ladder (SRGMPDNS/SNDPMGRS). Age old ragas like Sankarabharanam, Kalyani also have been suffering this fate. Such ragas which were there much before the mELa scheme came into existence also had to suffer at the hands of people who wanted to change the foot to suit the shoe. Vakratva is the very essence of such ancient ragas. But latter day teachers and many even now consider it a 'sacrilege' to sing vakra sancharas in Sankarabharanam or Kalyani, which robs these ragas of their very soul.

[tanapp]

Vakratva is the very essence of such ancient ragas.

Could not agree more. The Shankarabharanam Adi tALa varnam (sAmi ninnE kOri) is a shining example of how the non-linear note movements brings out the beauty of this raga in grand splendor.

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

Ravi Sri: I agree with you re: the comment on the Ma being different in the Descent--yes--it is true that the the "shoe-horning" tendency to fit the raga to the ladder-like approach robs us of the imagination and creativity that these ragas are capable of and still stay within the contours of the scale.
I always quote the example(perhaps too far-fetched) of the Periodic table of elements(corresponding to the Mela Karta Scheme) where the minerals themselves existed long before the periodic table was conceived-- Chlorine,Bromine and Iodine existed long before they were clubbed together as "the halogens family" in the Periodic table of elements.

The beauty of our music is that artistes belonging to the Dhanammal Music school bring out these hidden elements thro their unobtrusive style thro the Nelivus and Suzhivus(likewise in the laya style--the Odukkal and sedukkal!!). In my humble opinion such nuances have to be learnt thro face-to-face learning and not thro the modern modes of pedagogy like skype etc. Another example of how the same swara in a krithi is handled in multiple ways is the Thodi krithi--Gajavadhana where the Ga has several shades and still stays within the contours of Thodi.
Maybe I am old fashioned!!!!!

[RaviSri]

MKR, There is this exquisite chittaswaram in Gajavadana which goes like this: GaRSGRGGG MMGRiS GaRR GRND GaRRGa and then GS GR GG GM GP GD GN DM GMDM GMND GMPDN etc. Each of these Gs has subtle and different shades. The Dhanammal family revelled in this song.

There are many ragas whose contours have changed, whose true beauty has been simplified/trivialised by non thinking musicians, many ragas including Bhairavi, Reetigaula, Sahana etc., have been changed from what they were a couple of centuries ago. For eg., today's Bhairavi has a profusion of D2, quite different from the original where most of the sancharas including the arohana sancharas used D1. One example of where D1 is still used mostly in a song is in Kalpakam Swaminathan's rendition of 'Aryam Abhayambam'. She does it beautifully, almost following the SSP. There are many examples of ragas being distorted either due to lack of understanding, diligence, hard work, or simple callousness. The so called Bindumalini of today which is sung under the 16th mela was originally sung under the 17th mela by the Thillaistanam disciples (enta muddO), and the result is beautiful and full of bhava, much greater than the current version. This is only one example.

This topic of raga and kriti distortion is a huge one and requires a separate thread.

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

RaviSri: Re; gajavadhana--exactly my point about the different Gandharas- fortunately myself and my sister learnt this second hand from MS Amma--who had learnt it from Brindamma--my cousin--a sishya of Brindamma and Mukthammaa who studied in the Swathi Thirunal Music Acedemy under SSI used to tell me that SSI after learning this song from B and M used to caution the students when he taught this song with the admonition"--in Tamil--translated" I have prostrated before the sisters to learn this song,,for God's sake please learn it and render it with the same fidelity they have imbued this song with--do not let your Manodharmam run amok and impugn the rich heritage--SSI can be honest and sincere when he wants to!!!!

[cienu]

MKR, There is this exquisite chittaswaram in Gajavadana which goes like this: GaRSGRGGG MMGRiS GaRR GRND GaRRGa and then GS GR GG GM GP GD GN DM GMDM GMND GMPDN etc. Each of these Gs has subtle and different shades. The Dhanammal family revelled in this song.

RaviSri: Re; gajavadhana--exactly my point about the different Gandharas- fortunately myself and my sister learnt this second hand from MS Amma--who had learnt it from Brindamma

Dear RaviSri and Ramesh Mama,
My Grandmother and mother learnt this masterpiece in the early 80’s from Semmangudi Mama who had in turn learnt from Brindamma. This was also a song which Patti and Amma never sang in a concert stage ! (Possibly because Amma fell ill in 1982 & never fully recovered)
2 years ago in 2011, Amma told my daughter that she would like to teach her a most beautiful composition before she loses it from memory. Almost 30 years after she had learnt this from Semmangudi Mama, Amma taught this song including the magical Chittaswaram without reference to books for Notation!
On Dec 11th 2011 on her 77th birthday Amma and Aishwarya sang Gajavadana in the Brahma Gana Sabha. Please find below the link for the same..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrswfcaCI5U

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

Cienu: That was great!! The person applauding with Ha Ha sounded like Semmangudi Mama(I know it is not!!!)Tough song to sing--full of Bhavam-Aiswarya sounded nicely in this clip--She has truly grasped MS Amma's sincerity and Bhavam in her rendering not only in this but also in other pieces. Your Mom(Radha) always had an incredible memory--I have never seen her refer to notes etc--nowadays people carry ipads--she can remember names and faces!!

Just as an aside,met Kannakutty and his wife at a wedding in Chicago!!! What a strange place to meet!!!.

[RaviSri]

If you don't mistake me I would suggest a 20% reduction in the pace of this song. It will be more bhava oriented. B-M used to sing it in chauka kAlA.