TM KRISHNA'S CONCERT ON 04.11.2013 AT BSU FESTIVAL

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 05 Nov 2013, 12:14

In spite of my health problems, I have attended the concerts of the Hindustani music by Sri Darwar Venkateshkumar and the carnatic music concert of Sri TM Krishna at the BSU’S Concert festival on 04.11.2013.

TM Krishna’s concert. I have not attended his concerts for many years.

TM Krishna-Vocal.
Vittal Ramamurthy-Violin
ManojSiva-Mrudangam
Anirudh Athreya-Kanjira

With the eccentrics in many of his concerts reported in our threads, I was in two minds to attend the concert or not.

I was very happy to say that I was able to completely listen to a soulful concert. All the songs were sung in a vilambit format. The intricate patterns of the alapanas, the soulful renderings of the sahithyams with clear diction and a leisurely pacing of the swaras were excellent.

Song list. 1. Meenalochanabrova-Danyasi. 2. Samanam pesavo-Sahana. 3. Chat buddhimanavo-Atana.
4. Thanam only in Bairavi, Suruti and Varali. 5. ThaniAvarthanam mrudangam by Sri Manojsiva and Kanjira by Sri Anirudh Athreya. The acoustics for the thani was excellent. 6. Sakhiprana-Kurunji. 7. Slokam RMK in Saranga, Kalyani, Kambhoji and Saramathi. 8. Sogasu chooda tharama- Kannadgoula. 8. Harineepai- Yamunakalyani.

One of the Rasika requested him to sing Madyamavathi and TM Krishna declined to oblige. Another Rasika requested
the song Kanavendamo in Sriranjani. TM Krishna sang the song emotively and completed the concert by including a sloka in madyamavathi.

Throughout the concert, Sri TM Krishna was in a very sublime mood and I felt that Sri TM Krishna was in a swayunubhava mood for the entire concert. Sri Vittal Ramamurthy played very aptly for the entire concert.

I feel that the whole concert of Sri TM Krishna is an archival concert.

If the carnatica is to release the DVD of the concert in Video, I will be the first person to buy [The Video of the concert will be special in that the nrithya bhavams he had brought out in singing the alapanas were worth watching].

Overall a very memorable day for me.

I went up the stage after the concert, expressed my feelings, [TM Krishnanai kattipidithen] and blessed him.

S.NAGESWARAN.
05.11.2013.

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 05 Nov 2013, 12:20

[quote="S.NAGESWARAN"]
6. Sakhiprana-Kurunji. Usually this javali is sung in Senchurutti raga.
8. Harineepai- Yamunakalyani.
This one is Adhi Neepai (javali again)
Unquote

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 05 Nov 2013, 12:21

Looks like (from all the reviews in this forum) TM Krishna has totally given up on the Kutcheri paddathi laid out by Sri Ariyakudi

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 05 Nov 2013, 12:42

Sri Nageshwaran
sir, you are a role model.
Thanks for the report.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 05 Nov 2013, 13:01

S.NAGESWARAN wrote: 2. Samanam pesavo-Sahana.
......

Is the sahana ,a new krithi that I am not aware of ? Can some one else confirm the sahana krithi?

S.NAGESWARAN wrote: 3. Chat buddhimanavo-Atana.
......

3 is cEDE buddhi mAnurA - atAnA -T

Nageshwaran Sir ,
Thanks for your review

rupavathi · Post by **rupavathi** » 05 Nov 2013, 13:17

No. 2 was Emanatichedivo (Tyagaraja)

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 05 Nov 2013, 13:50

[quote="rajeshnat 2. Samanam pesavo-Sahana.
Is the sahana ,a new krithi that I am not aware of ? Can some one else confirm the sahana krithi?
[/quote]

Yes it's new to me also. Never even heard it mentioned. Must be one of those songs by a contemporary composer.
If anyone knows the composer pl advise, thanks

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 05 Nov 2013, 14:19

The Sahana kriti was 'EmAnaticcEvO EmencinAvO' by Tyagaraja. A new one for me too.

The main piece was an RRTT - Ragam(s): Bhairavi and Surati, followed by Tanam in Varali followed by Tani in Chatushra maThya taaLam, 2 kaLai.

The javali sung at the end was 'adi nIpai marulu konnadirA'

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 05 Nov 2013, 14:19

The concert started with the slow danyasi and was moving along like an auto without savaari for a while until the Sahana swaras. Picked up nicely after that with the atana alapana which could have been more expansive and the nice kriti rendition. Bhairavi alapana was brisk and very good. Alas, the concert derailed at this point. In spite of the best efforts of Manoj Siva (think he was requesting a particular kriti to which the flippant answer was "idhu paadidaren"), TMK started afresh with the surutti alapana.

6. Sakhiprana-Kurunji. Usually this javali is sung in Senchurutti raga.

Think this was in response to a request. At least TMK was looking at a chit passed to him. After he started, he said something like, "edho nenachen... idhu vandhuduthu... ipdiye paadidaren"

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 05 Nov 2013, 14:44

Nageshwaran sir, I commend you on this report and more importantly on your open mindedness.

Carnatic concerts have mostly been reduced to "fulfilment of expectations". While this can be comforting to the initiated, I think if a new generation of listeners of varying backgrounds are to be induced to pollinate the system and prevent it from decay, much experimentation is needed. I don't see any youngsters of varying backgrounds in Katcheris. Everybody is above a certain age and likely of a certain conservative bent of mind (and perhaps of certain castes/classes). This does not bode well for the future. What's even more distressing about the Carnatic situation is that the number of competent, nay outstanding, performers far exceeds the opportunities available.

While it is important not to dilute the basic idioms of Carnatic music, there is nothing sacrosanct or "traditional" about externally imposed structures like the famed "Ariyakudi Katcheri format". Many things shri Sri Ariyakudi recommended were suited to his strengths and limitations. For example that a katcheri should be started with a varnam is seriously arguable. Varnams are hardest to sing and practically all vocal varnam renditions at the beginning of a katcheri, save by the occassional super-human singer like MS Amma, are fraught with apasruthis. Instead it would have been much better to start with a slow alapana, exploring the notes and assessing the voice, as they do in Hindustani. Particularly for those who value vishranti in music, it is not a good idea to start with a varnam.

I am glad T M Krishna has the courage and vidvat to challenge the status quo. More power to him.

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 05 Nov 2013, 17:49

Varnam singing with various speeds may demonstrate the singer's capabiliity as well as to display the amount of practise the individual has put in.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 05 Nov 2013, 18:26

vs_manjunath wrote:Varnam singing with various speeds may demonstrate the singer's capabiliity as well as to display the amount of practise the individual has put in.

Perhaps so, but which part of the phrase "beginning of the katcheri" is not clear ?

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 05 Nov 2013, 18:30

Dear Rasikas,

Thanking you all for pointing about mistakes mentioning the krithi names and one or two names of the ragams mentioned.

The more important message that I wanted to convey about the concert was that all the songs selected were rakthi ragams and its asthetics of the presentation were immensely emotional.

I am yet to come out of the emotional aspects after listening to the full concert.

S.NAGESWARAN.
05.11.2013.

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 05 Nov 2013, 21:33

Was there any neraval sung ?

About kutcheri paddati, it is written that ariyakudi tailored to his needs. Last 70+ years, almost every single concert, artist is following this pattern. So, every single vidwan has same limitation as ariyakudi?

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 05 Nov 2013, 23:02

Carnatic music is both kalpita & kalpana sangeetham. They have to be present in roughly equal measure for optimum presentation. Ramakrishna Murthy's Todi lec-dem lays this out very well. Just presenting alapanas and moving on leaves a void in the kalpita sangeetham realm. Don't think it improves the presentation for any demographic.

pperumal · Post by **pperumal** » 05 Nov 2013, 23:36

pattamaa wrote:Was there any neraval sung ?

About kutcheri paddati, it is written that ariyakudi tailored to his needs. Last 70+ years, almost every single concert, artist is following this pattern. So, every single vidwan has same limitation as ariyakudi?

That is a question that the musicians should have asked themselves and introspected on before following

I think be it movies or carnatic music concerts or whatever, what clicks will continue to be emulated.
Just because everyone emulates something does not make it perfect.

Nevertheless - To me - the canvas (of Carnatic Music) is so wide that it can accommodate one and all!!!

- PP.

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 06 Nov 2013, 02:34

uday_shankar: if sung in the beginning it may help the singer to know throat capabilities on that particular kutcheri day !

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 06 Nov 2013, 07:21

Dear friends,

It is not TMKrishna who has altered the concert format for the first time.Sri TRS used to start with a Kriti instead of Varnam. But TMK has become more unconventional.
Example:RTP and a different Pallavi is chosen by Sri TMK.Additionally,he asks percussioists to play Tani indepenendently.Some times Sri TMK asks violinist to play first -
swara or Nerval and he follows the violinist.He did this at Bangalore Gayana Samaja in 2012.Also he makes announcements in the middle of the concert claiming that he is In-charge for conducting the concert and he has all the freedom to do so.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 06 Nov 2013, 07:21

Dear friends,

It is not TMKrishna who has altered the concert format for the first time.Sri TRS used to start with a Kriti instead of Varnam. But TMK has become more unconventional.
Example:RTP and a different Pallavi is chosen by Sri TMK.Additionally,he asks percussioists to play Tani indepenendently.Some times Sri TMK asks violinist to play first -
swara or Nerval and he follows the violinist.He did this at Bangalore Gayana Samaja in 2012.Also he makes announcements in the middle of the concert claiming that he is In-charge for conducting the concert and he has all the freedom to do so.

balakk · Post by **balakk** » 06 Nov 2013, 07:42

uday_shankar wrote: Varnams are hardest to sing and practically all vocal varnam renditions at the beginning of a katcheri, save by the occassional super-human singer like MS Amma, are fraught with apasruthis. Instead it would have been much better to start with a slow alapana, exploring the notes and assessing the voice, as they do in Hindustani. Particularly for those who value vishranti in music, it is not a good idea to start with a varnam.

Okay I'm just a novice, but I found this interesting. If varnams are so hard, why are they taught before krithis to students? Why not start with an easy krithi? Even a teacher as progressive as msakella-garu still continues to teach varnams before krithis, if I understand correctly.

After all a varnam does not require an elaborate alapana/swaras/neraval as a krithi. And the number of sangathis is much lesser - straightforward laya work too. So why is that a big problem for a trained artist?

CommonMan · Post by **CommonMan** » 06 Nov 2013, 08:10

uday_shankar wrote: Many things shri Sri Ariyakudi recommended were suited to his strengths and limitations. For example that a katcheri should be started with a varnam is seriously arguable.

Varnamas have traditionally been sung only at the beginning of the concert even pre-ARI days....it used to be an elaborate varnam (for about 20-25 mts) followed by a break for sandhyavandhanam, then a heavy piece, then a RTP, followed by slokams and a piece or two.
ARI modified the concert paddathi to acomodate variety of songs and pack it into a 3 hour concert. ARI did not change the pattern with regards to the position of varnams in a concert for his vocal conveniences.
It is one thing to appreciate innovation (or pseudo-innovation) of present day artists; but denigrating the old veterans in the process is totally unwarranted and definitely not in great taste. There might be aspiring youngsters participating in this forum - and we do not want to directly or indirectly pass on the wrong message that yesteryear doyens were far lesser mortals than the present day crowd pullers.
At the end of the day, many of us in this forum still believe in the taste of "thair sadham" despite the variety from other cuisines. Old music and old ideas have been the standard "ela saapadu" - it might not enthuse a lot of people who believe in roler-coaster music or ideas - but at the end of the day, those ela saapadu's are the ones which are friendly to our stomachs, and have passed the test of time till date.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 06 Nov 2013, 08:10

balakk

Why don't you take a survey of musicians and find out the answer. I won't get into the pedagogy argument for now but first if we wish to draw a disctinction between the class of experience known as "Katcheri" and the class of experience known as "music class", then we can talk.

A varnam is hard not because of the sangatis or laya but because a varnam has a lot of "notes" and when we start the voice from rest, it is hard for many musicians to set it "into motion" without hitting a lot of "bad" notes

. The question then is, do we care enough about shruti, tone and in general aesthetics that we allow these to invade a concert atmosphere right at the beginning ? For musicians who have chronic "voice problems" perhaps it is arguably the lesser of all evils. But others endowed with normal to great voices, say someone like Madurai Mani Iyer, although he knew tons of varnams, only started with a varnam on rare ocassions. As far as I know, MMI started very occassionally with the Mohanam varnam and even more occassionally with the Bhairavi Ata Tala varnam. He is not known to have sung any other varnam in a katcheri.

In a single music class session too, varnams are sung/taught/practiced after some varisais, geetams, etc..

Musicians sing/play for a living and may be loathe to break the Ariyakudi "paddhathi". It is a matter of livelihood. I would bet that most of them would welcome a "Katcheri paddhathi" that called for a varnam in the middle of the concert. Right now, they may appear to hum and haw about the "break" from the "tradition" just to appear to keep up with the joneses but if/when the paddhathi changes there will be a big sigh of relief !

tiruppugazh · Post by **tiruppugazh** » 06 Nov 2013, 08:25

Why didn't MMI sing varnams at all? Is it because people sang it in the beginning and he was uncomfortable? Is it because he felt it was too revolutionary to sing it later in the concert? Is it because the lyrics were mostly 'shringara rasa' and he was not happy beginning with them? Cannot understand why someone who 'knew' many varnams rarely sang them.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 06 Nov 2013, 08:30

Why Varnam first?
I recall, (and found out that many others do, too), the way Madurai Somu pretty much set the concert ablaze with the Kalyani aditala varnam in Bidaram Ramamandira about 45 years ago. The accompanists (Lalgudi? Vellore?) were all sweating. The audience had been drenched in a power-packed experience. Somu went on to score a great concert.

Varnam first has many logical positives for me-
1. Varnams are tautly structured compositions bringing out raga, tala, tempo, and musical grammar like a sutra. There is no ambiguity. So everyone on stage gells together quickly.
2. It's a great warm-up exercise. Remember how sportsmen do a vigorous warm-up.
3. It showcases the musician's technical competence.
4. The smart start to a concert kindles audience interest well.
5. Percussion artistes get a quick measure of the main musician's form for the day.
6. I have heard the varnam and the main concert piece sometimes in the same raga. It is a design element like in temple architecture!
7. No raga, swara etc. So the musician has to render the varnam more like a good student. So attitude gets focussed right.
8. In all performing arts, it is emphasized that one should make one's entry well. First impact. Here varnam serves the purpose with its excellent structure and repeatability.
9. It is short and sweet. Good punch.
10. A well rendered varnam banishes boredom. Good thing to do right away.

I pity the HM musicians who painfully construct a Bilaskhani Todi for the first 45 minutes of a concert. There is something wrong in that formula I feel!!!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 06 Nov 2013, 08:37

CommonMan wrote: those ela saapadu's are the ones which are friendly to our stomachs, and have passed the test of time till date.

Nice analogy! What we have is a cook "innovating" by pouring some sambar on the elai and then moving on to rasam

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 06 Nov 2013, 08:38

And I pity the CM musician who has to "sweat" and perhaps get accompanists to "sweat" through a varnam at the get go. Tastes differ.

tanapp · Post by **tanapp** » 06 Nov 2013, 08:52

RSachi has captured all my thought into his latest post above about varnam singing. It makes the performers gel well - with melody, laya, korvai patterns etc. all packed into a 5 minute capsule. It also provides a 'brisk' start (of course it depends upon the singer/instrumentalist's laya capability) with a piece that the musicians have learned a long time back as a kid probably that tingles in the blood - consequently it comes out spontaneously. I have seen some artists even displaying some manodharmam in the charanam lines after they are done with the original charanam swarams by the composer. Some artists also do a brief sketch of the raga to get into the shruti alignment and in the recent concert in San Jose, Abhishek did a brief Shankarabharanam sketch, paused and requested Rob (Sound Engineer) to lower his volume on the stage monitors. So it's got a contemporary / high tech reason as well now.

But as such there is no set rule how to start a concert with a kriti or varnam but given a choice to perform, I would always start with a varnam.

balakk · Post by **balakk** » 06 Nov 2013, 09:06

uday_shankar wrote:balakk

Why don't you take a survey of musicians and find out the answer.

Well, as you are putting up a thesis contrary to what is sung in most concerts, the onus is perhaps on you to provide that evidence

Anyway, I don't know any musicians that personally to ask such questions - I was just interested in your theory.

I see your point in that varnams frequently make use of all 3 octaves and certain swaras are quite tricky. However I'm not sure this is more challenging than singing a full krithi for starters. I was once told a krithi like Vathapi, which is frequently sung first or second, has as many as 12 sangathis in the pallavi itself, covering all octaves. Would that be simpler compared to a varnam? I don't know honestly.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 06 Nov 2013, 09:44

balakk wrote:the onus is perhaps on you to provide that evidence

Touche ! Ouch

. I have talked informally to several vocalists and they all agree that varnam's are a hard way to start a concert. However, on the bigger question then is why not a varnam in the middle of a concert ?

grsastrigal · Post by **grsastrigal** » 06 Nov 2013, 12:30

I too attended !!! so I give some of my thoughts..!!

I completely agree with Sri.Nageswaran on the soulful part. Ambience and acoustics helped a lot to enhance this feeling. Such an experienced person’s statement merits our attention. Varali Tanam (dahanum !) was very good.

Some corrections, correct me, if Iam wrong.

TMK ended mangalam in sriranjani. Continuing the kriti of kaNa vEndamO (not in madhyamavathi as Sir puts it.)

The vritham in kalyani, kamboji, vagadeeswari, kannada gowla followed by sogasujooda. Saranga & saramathy was not there.

SakiprAna in Chencurutti only not in kurinji.

Coming to my review..
While entering the hall, he was finishing “chEdE budhi mAnura” atAna masterpiece of Thyagaraja. He was in final stage of the swaram.
I thought this song was meant for me, going through the meaning “O mind, Give up crooked ideas. Discover the divine source which can lead to the abode.”

After atana, he started- in minutes-ragam
6 minutes-bairavi
4 minutes-Violin return
6 minutes-Surutti
4 miuntes-violin return
10 minutes-varali Tanam
1 minute-silence/somu “sound” (in between)
4 minutes-Tanam violin return

TMK announced the Tani. Manoj siva had enough “rest” for 35 minutes to start his chatushra nadai, 2 kalai tani with AA. He was folding his hands like AVM Saravanan till then.

Saki prAna was rendered very well. After this, he took the vrittham- Sringaram, karunyam,….like that. ( some one helps me with the full verse…Pl). Is it Ramayanam ?.

One rasika, as already stated here, got up and said- “You have not rendered any kriti in madhyamavathi for the past 3 years, Please sing, if you have mood”
Bravo to the rasikas, who has been following him so closely to find his “missing madhyamavathi”.

TMK did not listen the last word. (Good God). Even kAna VEndamo- he first refused (adutha kutcherila vechukkalAmE) and reluctantly sang.. (rasikar kovichuppAr). In that also, he rendered, “odunga verrelumbu”, it should be “odunga verrudambu”.

There are some problems/inconvenience the “experienced” artists performing with TM Krishna as they always have accustomed to a pattern of playing.

In my last concert “offerings”, Dr.Hemalatha started Todi (as asked by TMK), she was confused how much time to take ? If the main artist takes 10 minutes, violin can 6-7 minutes for return. Here, she started first so she had a problem in “time management” so she jumped some “pudis” and sort of a hush-hush…and finished in 5 min.

Here, VR, after TMK finished bairavi, was wondering whether to play bairavi because he anticipated TMK will start some other “unexpected” move. TMK after some few seconds asked VR to play and then said “sorry”.

Even, Tani, MS did not know whether to play long or short. In between, TMK asked him to perform some more time. Then Manoj took a u Turn and started playing some more “sarvalagus’.

Even, while clapping, TMK asked the rasikas to stop !!! (keeping his hand close to his hearts) indirectly telling “Iam singing for my inner soul/conscience”. Sort of “narastuthi sukhamA”. I remember SSI’s famous words-in his famous shankarabharanam RTP-. “summa kai thattungO, arisikkuththAn ration, idukkenna”….

This had adverse impact in the concert, After VR played violin, no one clapped fearing TMK’s wrath. That is why the rasikas put those words- “If you have the mood”

Change is the only factor which is constant. (mARRam onRe nirandharam). Even today’s “Hindu” carried “Sports” column as its first page which is unusual. But a rendition of bairavi for 15 minutes followed by a swarajathi and swaram in “shyama krishna sodhari” brings a drop of tears in my eyes, which none can bring.

As a famous living Sangeetha kalanidhi told me- “Only CM has withstood the onslaught and still has been maintaining that tradition. We have the duty to uphold. It is non-negotiable and should not be tampered with. If done, like disowning/disrespecting our gurus”. Sister of famous SK (late), who is living in Mylapre, when I countered, made this statement “It is like eating food through mouth and it will remain as i

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 06 Nov 2013, 12:48

All successful innovations tamper with tradition. Time is the judge, and if time accepts, then it doesn't matter if the innovation is a week, a month, or a hundred years old, it too gets hailed as untouchable tradition

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 06 Nov 2013, 13:27

grsastrigal wrote:
TMK did not listen the last word. (Good God). Even kAna VEndamo- he first refused (adutha kutcherila vechukkalAmE) and reluctantly sang.. (rasikar kovichuppAr). In that also, he rendered, “odunga verrelumbu”, it should be “odunga verrudambu”.

The relevant lyrics are:

Ottai sadalam odunga vetrelumbuk
koottil irunduyir ottam pidikum mun (kana vendamo)

Elumbuk koodu means skeleton.

Udambuk koodu makes no sense.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 06 Nov 2013, 13:37

uday_shankar wrote:
What's even more distressing about the Carnatic situation is that the number of competent, nay outstanding, performers far exceeds the opportunities available.

It is exactly like the situation in professional degree courses in medicine, engineering or even, the B. Ed. (Bachelor of Education).

When demand exceeded supply - and the state governments released their iron grip on education by permitting private colleges - "self-financing" colleges mushroomed; first in Engineering, then in Education and then in Medicine.

What is needed is "self-financing" sabhas so that those who are desirous of concert opportunities and who have the money can finance their own concerts.

Then all these competent, nay outstanding, performers can sing to their hearts' content in public, not just in their puja rooms or bathrooms.

Getting an audience may be a problem. Well, just like political rallies, they can bus in paid listening audience too.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 06 Nov 2013, 14:12

harimau wrote:
What is needed is "self-financing" sabhas so that those who are desirous of concert opportunities and who have the money can finance their own concerts.

Oops.

I just remembered that almost all of the alternative sabhas and quite a few of the mainstream sabhas offer the self-financing options to some upcoming artists.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 06 Nov 2013, 15:03

When SUPPLY (= # musicians) exceeds DEMAND (= # concert opportunities), this is a typical situation in marketing and the following methods are considered:
1. Relocate supply to another demographic.
2. Reinvent value proposition messaging to increase appeal.
3. Explore new channels (TV reality shows/new thematic series/web casts/new concert formats with multiple artistes on stage etc.)
4. If there is price elasticity charge less
5. Redesign or add bells and whistles.
6. Move on to a new business.
7. Co-market (buy this and get that free).
8. Redefine your quality and aim at a different value segment.

You can all think of examples in CM for the response ideas listed above.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 06 Nov 2013, 15:18

Good contribution by Mr. Sachi. Sriram Parasuram has indicated in one talk or writing that what AR introduced was not normative, but intuitive. That is, the form has the substance of music. I doubt whether following one's own mind and idiosyncrasy will stand the test of time as the AR form has done. One may argue that the format is less than a century old. The vedas are far younger than the truth they stand for and gel with truth anywhere, in science or other religions. The genius of AR was not that he had set a trend, but that he had sensed it authentically. I am not sure that those that disrupt it can claim as much.

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 07 Nov 2013, 02:31

Rsachi wrote:
Varnam first has many logical positives for me-
6. I have heard the varnam and the main concert piece sometimes in the same raga. It is a design element like in temple architecture!

Usually in ARI concerts, RTP raga was the same as the Varnam raga ! The audience already knows the RTP raga in the beginning of the concert, no surprises. This also means the RTP raga was a well known raga !

Did Palghat KVN also followed this trend ? Yes, in many concerts it was so.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 07 Nov 2013, 03:09

tiruppugazh wrote:Why didn't MMI sing varnams at all? Is it because people sang it in the beginning and he was uncomfortable? Is it because he felt it was too revolutionary to sing it later in the concert? Is it because the lyrics were mostly 'shringara rasa' and he was not happy beginning with them? Cannot understand why someone who 'knew' many varnams rarely sang them.

I have discussed this very subject with MMI. I am reporting here what he told me:
0) MMI LIVED FOR HIS RASIKAS & HIS AIM WAS TO PLEASE THEM ABOVE ANY OTHER CONSIDERATION.
1) ALMOST ALL THE TIME he was given a list from organisers or rasikas & he decided to FULFIL as many requests as possible. EARLY ON his career he started & sang Varnams with gusto. He later on in his career sang them only when some one requested.
2) Later on he decided that may be the time is better spent on singing a kriti instead of varnam in the beginning esp. as REQUESTS for Vataphi, Thathvam Ariya, & PRACTICALLY ANY COMPOSITION was better from many points of view. I must say that GNB,MMI, have said that if the compositions of the trinity if rendered properly was the BEST one could do.
Does this answer at least in part your question. I will be happy to elaborate if you wish. VKV

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 07 Nov 2013, 07:04

For the record except for ARI and Alathur bros in that era,GNB,MMI,SSI also did not start with the varnam. GNB occasionally switched between Varnams(Abhogi/Mohanam) and krithis like Swaminatha Paripalaya(MD).

SSI seldom started with varnam--instead he would open with Mayamalavagowla(Deva Deva kalayami) or Vallabha (begada)/

In my opinion the ARI Paddhati extended beyond mere Varnam--trinity's and his own Guru(Poochi Iyengar)'s kritis formed the core of his concert.besides the brief Raga Alapana,the neraval and the swara prastharams--all were concise and compact--the structure was easy to follow and people did. But even during his(ARI) time his contemporaries did not follow the Varnam but basically adhered to the rest of the concert format. The audiences enjoyed them all.
TMK's experiments perhaps have to be looked at simply--What is he attempting to do(objective),How well he executed it (objective) and what was the effect on the listener(subjective).
I recall an admonition by the late GNB in casuAL talk-"FOCUS ON WHAT I AM SINGING--IF I AM SINGING SARASASAMADHANA DO NOT INVOKE IN YOUR MIND HOW SSI OR MMI WOULD HAVE SUNG THE PIECE AND START COMPARING".

MORAL: Do not go to concerts with any kind of expectations about formats,choice of ragas or krithis. Try to understand what the artist is trying to do,and how well he/she executed it and form your own opinion about the effect it created in your mind.
As I have said before in this forum, I have never had any qualms about TNR or Mali's "experiments" but the few moments of ecstacy their music provided more than compensated for their idiosynchrisies. In my humble opinion TMK's experiments or innovations have not touched me the same way. YET!!!When they do I am willing to be the loyal rasika of his Paddhati!! TMK might say "BIG DEAL"!!! and he is RIGHT!!!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 07 Nov 2013, 07:13

Moral of the story: when MKR capitalises, it's time to wake up to reality.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 07 Nov 2013, 07:17

Rsachi wrote:
When SUPPLY (= # musicians) exceeds DEMAND (= # concert opportunities), this is a typical situation in marketing and the following methods are considered:

Do you have an MBA from one of the IIMs?

Rsachi wrote:
1. Relocate supply to another demographic.

Ramakrishnan Murthy, though raised in the US, has relocated to India. We all know how slim the pickings were for Smt Sangeetha Swaminathan when she got married and moved to the Bay Area.

Rsachi wrote:
2. Reinvent value proposition messaging to increase appeal.

Madu meikkum kanne, nee (abh)ange poga vendam sonnen.

)

Rsachi wrote:
3. Explore new channels (TV reality shows/new thematic series/web casts/new concert formats with multiple artistes on stage etc.)

Pair with keyboard, saxophone, guitar, didgeridoo, kazoo, Hindusthani musicians, etc. This is done also to attract sponsor's money. Truly, a fool and his money are soon parted!

)

Sing varnam in the middle. Maybe sing mangalam at the beginning. Even better, tani avarthanam by itself with no krithi or RTP so that the singer doesn't have to bother about when the theermanam comes!

)

Rsachi wrote:
4. If there is price elasticity charge less

Actually, charge negative amounts; i.e., pay the sabha for concert slots!

Rsachi wrote:
5. Redesign or add bells and whistles and hissing.

I think perhaps this is covered under 2 and 3. The snake hissing in the middle of the Snake Dance song is an excellent example. So, I took the liberty of modifying your statement!

Rsachi wrote:
6. Move on to a new business.

What? And lose all the public adulation? No way!

Rsachi wrote:
7. Co-market (buy this and get that free).

Yes. Listen to a few Carnatic music items and you get the Blind Monkey song or the Snake Dance song!

Rsachi wrote:
8. Redefine your quality and aim at a different value segment.

Isai Payanam. Need I say more?

Rsachi wrote:
You can all think of examples in CM for the response ideas listed above.

Everybody! Feel free to add your two cents.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 07 Nov 2013, 07:22

vs_manjunath wrote:
Usually in ARI concerts, RTP raga was the same as the Varnam raga ! The audience already knows the RTP raga in the beginning of the concert, no surprises. This also means the RTP raga was a well known raga !

Did Palghat KVN also followed this trend ? Yes, in many concerts it was so.

Unfortunaley for certain popular singers, there are no varnams in Patdeep, Bhagesri or Ramkali. So we get surprised -- indeed hit on the head -- by RTPs in these ragas.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 07 Nov 2013, 08:12

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 07 Nov 2013, 09:48

Dear RSachi,
GOOD ONE! I hope Harimau ups the ante & keeps this exciting repartee going; & not resort to Araichamavu being "araichufied " again(which for reasons unknown to me many do not seem to like!)......VKV

MV · Post by MV » 07 Nov 2013, 12:11

After listening to a fabulous lec-dem on Thodi, I'm thinking I wouldn't mind a 'Thodi Concert' Are you listening TMK? To hear rare pieces like Sri Ganapathi and Munu Rava, it would be worth it

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 07 Nov 2013, 12:37

Seems to be that harimau fell in the trap nicely laid by RSachi and for bonus got adorned with fangs too

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 07 Nov 2013, 12:48

The issue is not starting with a varnam or following a pattern.

If TMK wants he can sing a concert with raga alapana / thanams only. But when you decide to sing a kriti why not in same raga . Why go for different raga for the kriti. A wonderful bhairavai alapana followed by viribhoni is OK but by a Thodi kriti gives an incomplete feeling.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 07 Nov 2013, 22:11

Friday Review » Music

Published: November 7, 2013 16:56 IST | Updated: November 7, 2013 16:56 IST

Experimentation

SVK

The Hindu T.M. Krishna Photo: S.S. Kumar

Krishna’s vidwat and new musical ideals moved hand-in-hand in the interpretation of ragas

The mark of our time in musical expressions is a new approach to aesthetics to impact on the appreciation level of listeners. In this respect it has travelled far from the Trinity culture. These thoughts crossed the mind as T.M. Krishna sang for the Carnatica presenting his preferred technique.

It was a shift from mechanical rendering to a lethargic format. For him exposition had to reveal new musical values as an intense excellence of sangita. It was a part of his intellectual self-indulgence, a self-belief in the valiancy of his style. It was meant to cast a fascinating spell on the image of raga’s beauty, sahityas and swaras which Krishna sought to impress.

His earlier training and practice of concert content and planning in traditional pattern with a gifted voice stood him in good stead in his new avatar. So ragas were developed in fits and starts without compactness. In kirtanas the movement of sahityas was heard, but not the words. That was the way he tempted listeners to understand his musical impulses. This aspect contributed to superficial excellence.

Krishna rendered just three songs in one-and-a-half hour duration before a ragam, tanam, pallavai in Chatusra jati matya tala.

Graceful Dhanyasi

At the start the Dhanyasi composition of Syama Sastri ‘Meena Lochani’ was taken up. Though the sahitya was blurred the solid graces of Dhanyasi built into it were well respected. His vidwat and new musical ideals moved hand-in-hand in the interpretation.

The Sahana raga (‘Emaanadichchevo’) was developed in spasmodic spirits. The inherent musical niceties of the raga were elusive. There was no inner guidance in getting an insight into its defining shades. The other song that he handled was ‘Chate Buddhi Maanura’ (Atana).

What compactness was lacking in Krishna’s raga delineation was set right by the violinist Vittal Ramamurthy. He directly transferred his accompanying experience to the raga lines in his solo in brevity.

For the Bhairavi and Surutti vinyasa for the RTP Krishna and Vittal Ramamurthy shared the interplay of karvais and cadences to highlight the picture of the ragas.

Manoj Siva (mridangam) and Anirudh Athreya (ganira) in lucid, gentle strokes carried the thani to a pleasing level in ear-friendly decibels.

Keywords: TM Krishna, TM Krishna concert

Printable version | Nov 7, 2013 10:09:05 PM | http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... 325445.ece

© The Hindu

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 07 Nov 2013, 22:48

TM Krishna performed Raagam and Taanam only but as a bonus SVK has mentioned it as RTP

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 08 Nov 2013, 11:23

sureshvv wrote:
Seems to be that harimau fell in the trap nicely laid by RSachi and for bonus got adorned with fangs too

The only trap everyone has fallen into is the one T M Krishna laid.

Everyone is talking about TMK and not one line about the Sudha Raghunathan-Shashank concert!

)