Lalgudi Sahaptham Begins With Lakshmi Devanath's Book

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 18 Nov 2013, 12:27

Thank you! Will try & buy.

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 18 Nov 2013, 16:49

I have heard a few variations of Kalyanavasantham before. Actually LGJ's attempt to "change" Kalyanavasantham is actually more of a quest to rediscover the original raga as he was disturbed by the fact that D2 had crept into the raga and in this he had used some very old notated manuscripts in this regard.

However there is another Kalyanavasantham with a D1 in which I have the recording of MLV's Kannulu Takkani (for LGJ version, check his youtube interview). This is eerily similar to Keeravani and goes more like S G2 R2 G2 M1 D1 N3 S and even has dhattu phrases like GR MGM. I have also listened to Vedavalli Maami singing this krithi in her concert at IITM and it was again quite different in that the G2 had a big kampita gamaka in it like the G2 of Ananda Bhairavi. LGJ's own resettling of the raga is predominantly plain note by contrast.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 19 Nov 2013, 01:16

My interest in discussing KALPITHA aspects is to understand whether it can be DEFINED properly and my own conclusion is that it is akin to Beauty which it is said is in the eyes of the beholder. Unlike Western Music where CADENZAS are used in concertos etc to SPECIFICALLY denote departures from the written down compositions of the composer, in Carnatic music partly due to the oral tradition+ Different claims by various practiceouners(spelling?) at various times as demonstrated by the discussions above the whole concept at least to me is in a muddled state and LGJ'S DICTUM "Music exists for people, it is not the other way around" may be more powerful than I thought originally.
Bringing down the lofty levels of the previous discussions I wish to state a few concrete examples of why DEVIATIONS can result in some instances in BETTER versions than the composer had probably intended. LGJ himself had commented & opined thus: For example in Oh! Rangasayee his playing instinctively invoked the picture of a reclining god starting from one end to the other using the notes the composer had used as well as the judicious use of the sangathis. Similarly in Theerada Vilaiyattu pillai LGJ'S cascade of swaras brought forth the images of the intertwined plait in "Pinnalai pin ninru izhuppan" and the intoxicated state "Kallal mayanguvadu pole" very clearly and at least temporarily evoked what the composition had intended using violin which cannot explicitly state the words.Similarly the dramatic pause in "Vayapotti"in Ennadavam seydani was so spectacular! These are not part of the original composition and yet they definitely enhance the intentions.......
In short I am claiming the many of the scholarly discussions invoking history or different schemes are just that. ULTIMATELY in MOST instances as SEM, GNB & MMI pointed out faithfully reproducing the original composition as the composer intended is the best one could do. MMI went to the extent of saying that after thousands of attempts he still never could sing VATHAPHI as Dhikshitar had intended perfectly.
As a result of my conclusion I am going to combine what people have defined as Kalpitha and Manodharma as one and write about LGJ'S CONTRIBUTIONS as the combined result of both. I am sure there are several brickbats ready to be thrown at me and I look forward to learning from the experts. VKV

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 19 Nov 2013, 08:25

VKV sir,
It is an interesting discussion coming from you as a devoted listener for decades.

I believe that a musician approaches any krithi at three levels. The most basic is to reproduce exactly as he has been taught by his guru, within his ability.
The second level is to research the various versions and come up with what is the correct pAThAntara as per SSP or Umayalpuram school etc. and stick to that design and render it "authentically".
Then there is still a higher level.
That level is when the musician dives deep into the composition, and relives the composer's mood and manodharma, and even enters into the trance of the subject of the song, and eventually recreates the composition. Some people call it transcreation also.
The third level has its risks and surely detractors. They say manodharma of the musician finds play in raga, neraval etc and this type of modifying the krithi is uncalled for. It is like layering a sanchari bhava in Bharatanatyam. (Remember Balasaraswati showing Draupadi Vastrapanaharana in Krishna née begane at the "Jagadoddharaka namma" point)

But let us remember that whereas Valmiki wrote the original Ramayana, Kamban, Tulsidas and other great poets made that transcreation of Ramayana by going into that trance.

In such a case, as in the remarkable endeavours of Lalgudi, we have these recreations. We have to take them as such and appreciate them, mood and our own manodharma permitting. (It does work sometimes for us and may not, sometimes.) But I think in so many Indian classical art forms, this type of transcreation has happened and it should also in Carnatic music.

The same goes for even ragas. That is how I think they have evolved.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 19 Nov 2013, 09:12

Dear RSachi,
YOUR lucid elucidation has made me rethink what I wrote & how I have approached this subject. Thanks for your insights & especially the ability to communicate them. I will approach rest of what I was planning to say with this new insight. VKV

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 19 Nov 2013, 14:04

VKV Sir
You want to "I am going to combine what people have defined as Kalpitha and Manodharma as one" How and Why? Both are distinct and separate parts of Creativity. Any offering of the original is kalpitha only. Even when the performer with realized values of original creation, recreates the values in presentation, it is kalpitha only. In the process of recreation, performer may be offering a variant or modifications arising out of his/her imagination. Only when the performer creates the original, afresh and anew with high values offering aananda to the rasika(s), the offering is product of Manodharma. Kalpitha gives the structure and strength and also its mastery leads to the possibility of Original creativity. Only few are Original creators and exceptional. Rest, are all Great Maestros and Maestros creating either a Bani or Style or both.
The few panel discussions on the topic of manodharma sangita, even with the participation of stalwarts have not been helpful for clarity, understanding and communicating. Hopefully, the panel discussion arranged by MA this year deliberates and achieves clarity, understanding and communicates for the benefit of Practitioners, Teachers, Students and the rasikas.
munirao2001

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 20 Nov 2013, 03:00

Dear Sri. Muni Rao,
I agree with what you have written but the BOTTOM LINE IS THERE APPEARS TO BE NO CLEAR AGREEMENT ON THE PART OF PRACTICALLY EVERYONE ON WHAT THESE TERMS MEAN (Kalpitha&Manodharma).My aim is to understand & elucidate with experts & others like YOU in this forum on WHAT THE CREATIVE & ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTIONS OF LGJ AS WELL AS HIS OTHER CONTRIBUTIONS WERE. My goals are very specific & OTHERS CAN WRITE THEIR OWN VIEWS ON ANYTHING WRITTEN HERE......
My ultimate aim is to understand what is technically called STATES OF CONSCIOUNESS (ALSO KNOWN AS A.S.O. AWARENESS, MIND etc)-technically significantly different from a normal waking BETA wave state) through the creativity in MUSIC by LGJ, MALI, MMI , PMI, MS,- and hoping experts here like you, Mahavishnu( PROF. Balasubramanian whose speciality is the human brain among other things will enlighten us-; The simple example I can give is that of the epoch making SALT MARCH OF THE MAHATMA TO DANDI which looked absurd but brought down the British Empire!
I can state I have been privileged to observe PERSONS like LGJ, MS, MALI, PMI, MMI while answering my MUNDANE questions I could clearly see their ability to exist SIMULTANEOUSLY at VARIOUS LEVELS. RSachi has expressed this in a slightly different fashion.As a scientific type it is miserable not being able to even conceive of explanations not to say understand questions of say, (mortality which has confronted us reg LGJ& HIS WIFE) and several other subjects........
I will continue to write about various aspects of LGJ'S CREATIVITY IRRESPECTIVE OF WHICH ASPECT IN MUSIC IT IS CLASSIFIED AS. THERE IS SO MUCH TO SAY!......VKV

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 20 Nov 2013, 10:59

cacm wrote:BOTTOM LINE IS THERE APPEARS TO BE NO CLEAR AGREEMENT ON THE PART OF PRACTICALLY EVERYONE ON WHAT THESE TERMS MEAN (Kalpitha&Manodharma).

Yes. I love LGJ's version of Nadaloludai - the old LP with Sivaraman, what a melodious rendition. From a melody, instrumental perspective, this is superb.

Same with the popular Ninnuvina Nama (navarasakannada), I would presume some yesterera Nadaswara vidwan would have set that tune with all ornamentation around ganulakuni .... There is a vocal version of this krithi sung by Viswanatha Iyer which seems to have mesmerized Flute Mali.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 20 Nov 2013, 12:27

VKV Sir,
I am only a rasika and student of Indian Classical Music.
"WHAT THE CREATIVE & ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTIONS ". You will be offering great contribution in researching, writing about it for the rasikas to continue to enjoy the high values in Lalgudi Mama's music and students of music to get inspired to learn and do sadhana for their own realization of high values. As a researcher of great merits, please refrain from idolatry, look and bring out the facts, both technically and historically, verifiable and undeniable. To achieve, please take the inputs of experts-fortunately we have many a great maestros- Musicians, both Vocal, Violinists and other Instrumentalists and Musicologists, with lakshya and lakshana aspects in his creative and original contributions, in private correspondence or discussions.
To attempt at better understanding of "WHAT THE CREATIVE & ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTIONS ", let us go in to details. With the knowledge gained, enjoying the richness and values of the original creator, partaking with rasikas with the original flame of the composer/creator burning in them, creatively and offering the vision of beauty of the original composition, is 'impersonal creativity'. With highest level of appreciation of the original compositions-ONLY in karna parampara, inspiration, add significant values as improvizations- mostly unique raga sanchari bhava, sangati ornamentations and beautiful links-brikhas, creatively is 'personal' creativity with the stamp of class of the Great Maestro. Acceptance, adoption and practice leads to the creation of Personal- 'Bani'. To offer novelty, to attract, to excite, to establish identity and popularity, to adopt a unique ' method ' or 'manner' of performing with urge to be different, is 'personal-style' creativity. Factually the highest level of creativity and original contribution is offering non existing, anew and afresh melody-raga, composition,rhythm-tala, kalapramana, raga delineation, pallavi, neraval, swarakalpana. This creativity can be both 'Personal' and 'Impersonal', but impersonal with the goal and objective of expansion of classism, excellence, a rich addition to the tradition and finally enriching experience to the other practitioners and rasikas, is valued as highest creation and creative offering.
Kalpitha aspect consists of making use and handling the existing, already created. Manodharma consists of both the ideation and rich improvization of kalpita aspect-with mana sudhi and a totally anew and afresh, not part of kalpita aspect of muisic, with chitta sudhi, the later considered as highest creative offering of lasting values.

munirao2001

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 20 Nov 2013, 12:47

The valid points about the kalpitha and manodharma sangeetham seemsto have been brought out by Shri LGJ himself

in the twin audio compact disc album released by Swathi Soft Solutions of Lecture demonstration on the various aspects of manodharma sangeetham. ...

Please see the article in The Hindu at...

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... 554933.ece

which I consider as educative..

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 20 Nov 2013, 13:49

vasanthakokilam
Thanks to your link, I was able to read the report on Lec-Dem. But the topic and context is different, not directly related to our discussion. After hearing directly the Great Maestro's Lec-Demo, I can understand and appreciate his point of view. Does L.D.'s Book deals with this important subject and aspect ?

munirao2001

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 25 Nov 2013, 01:38

[update][/update]
I AM NOW READY TO EMBARK ON MY OBSERVATIONS REGARDING LGJ AS A SOLOIST. I FEEL THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO UNDERSTAND HIS ACHEIVEMENTS AS IT IS A PURE ANALYSIS OF HIS APPROACH.
A FEW GROUND RULES I INTEND OBSERVING: 1)While he respected his instrument , LGJ firmly declared "Vocal Music reigns Supreme"..Actually Sruti wrote in 1990 "Lalgudi has succeeded in acheiving what he set out to do , namely to endow a mute instrumant with a "tongue" so that it might sort of sing.2) I am liberally sharing with readers what L.D. has written in her excellently written book after years of research. If I keep referring to her book & what she has written Most of what I am writing except for my personal OBSERVATIONS will occupy more than 90 percent of what I am writing! 3) LGJ has said that (so has EVERY LEADING VIDWAN) that SILENCE is the base on which sound hence music has to be constructed.. So while various NUANCES of a technical nature like EXCEPTIONAL deference in alignment to Sruti & Laya was paramount even in an intricate gamaka EXCESS WAS TABOO & his goal was always to capture the soul of music and he always researched and devised methods to convey the music he had in mind. 4) Consequently as Dr.N.Ramanathan has observed "the LALGUDI BHANI succeeds in portraying the Carnatic idiom in all its authenticity". MLV has observed: " One has to sing along with his(Lalgudi's) violin to realise his utmost fidelity both to the vocal and emotional content of music". 5) Simply put He can be directly traced DIRECTLY to THE ONE AND ONLY THYAGABRAHMAM THE "ULTIMATE" IN CARNATIC MUSIC. 6) His knowledge& expertise was VAST IN EVERY AREA THAT COUNTED: LANGUAGE, REPERTOIRE, TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE& ABILITY TO EXECUTE, COMPOSING etc.
With these out of the way the NEXT POST I wish to start is on RAGA ALAPANA. In melodic systems our music is UNIQUE IN THE SPECIFICITY & IMPORTANCE in this aspect. As a matter of fact many foreign experts have observed that this aspect is the MOST ADVANCED & SUBJECT TO VARIOUS ROLES.
As one of the proverbial "Six Blind Men of Hindusthan-Women are welcome too- trying to understand LGJ'S UNIQUE GEINIUS-I request others to join in with their thoughts to make our attempt at least interesting. VKV

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 25 Nov 2013, 07:18

VKV sir: I have been meaning to contribute something of substance to this thread for a while now. The topic is so vast and there are so many details that need to be addressed. You have done a great job of your coverage so far, following LD's book faithfully and presenting the history of the Lalgudi legacy, including his greatness as an accompanist.

LGJ as an accompanist: Some years ago Cool-ji presented an amazing set of recordings of LGJ accompanying all time greats (SSI, Somu, BMK, TKR) and this authoritative collection is a must-have for all music lovers. Please message me, I still have this assorted recording. It is simply amazing. There are others like Dr. N. Ramanathan who have also analyzed this aspect of LGJ's genius in great detail.

Since Sri VKV brought up the topic of Lalgudi as a soloist, I thought I would be present a small but great example of Lalgudi's genius in the presentation of a short raga alapana, kriti (anupama guNAmbhudi) and swarams. I have chosen this particular case study of aTANA.

https://archive.org/details/GeniusOfLalgudiAtana

Raga Alapanai of aTANA:
It is a very tricky ragam and bringing out all of its shades is indeed very difficult (even its origin as either of janyam of Harikamboji or Sankarabharanam is a matter of debate). The particularly slippery anyaswaras and its bhashanga ragam pattern make it very difficult to render very concisely. Here is a brilliant LGJ, doing full justice to the ragam in about 2 minutes flat.

Points to observe: LGJ's short and crisp phrases where he builds the structure of the ragam, the superb octave change to reinforce the first phrase, the mpRS and the repetitions thereof, SNPDNP and the phrase permutations, the hovercraft landing over the upper shadjam, the highlighting of the nishadam as he glides up and down the scale (with an appoggiatura) and the perfect summary. All in 2 minutes!

Kriti: As MLV observed, listening to the kriti feels like you are listening to a vocal performance. The sangatis flow one from another like a mighty river headed to the sea. The madhyamakala gait is just perfect, with Trichy Sankaran's ideal accompaniment (like his great guru PSP) marching along with the music; even his tirmAnams anticipate LGJ's kriti structure. The nadai variations that TS introduces are only possible with someone with such an excellent grip on layam as LGJ; you barely feel the rhythmic "perturbations".

Swarams: The half-avartanam swarams they begin with are symmetrical and elegant. And then LGJ breaks the symmetry and builds further complexity as he goes along. But this is done in the most systematic way. Every incremental iteration and the poruttham he brings, add to this geometric arrangement culminating in the koraippu; where he slowly reduces this complexity that he built. Perfect ending to a perfect kriti.

There are many examples of this symmetry and poruttham in his kalpanaswarams (a commercial release with PMI accompanying him where he plays itE bhagyamu in kannada ragam is another great case-study). TRS (bless his soul) and N. Ramanathan mentioned it in a recent-lec dem about poruttham in kalpanaswaram development.

So, why this particular example? It is as Blake would say: "To see a world in a grain of sand, And a heaven in a wild flower, Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, And eternity in an hour". Lalgudi condenses the world and presents it aesthetically in just 10 minutes. And it stays with you for an eternity.

They don't make 'em like that any more.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 25 Nov 2013, 08:54

A very classic presentation that is so soothing to read.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 25 Nov 2013, 22:42

I just wish to add that This book comes with a unique CD of LGJ'S recordings over his career which were kindly provided by LALGUDI GJR KRISHNAN &LALGUDI VIJI the worthy children of LGJ & EMINENT artists in their own right."The uniqueness of this stems from the fact that the CD does not feature a regular concert."(Lakshmi Devnath). Indeed I consider the CD speaks for what LGJ has done (musically speaking the best of his efforts) & is very lucid in its content. It would be interesting if readers can complete some missing details on some of the 29 recordings reg. where the concert took place in some instances, whether they attended that particular concert etc. .... (With this we can learn the evolution of the genius more)....VKV

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 26 Nov 2013, 08:42

Ramesh, that is so beautifully written. I dont know which one to enjoy; The aTANA or your post. The LGJ_TS combo is beyond words. I was in a state of trance wondering as to how can the Mrudangam just "sing" along so beautifully with the main artiste. Just beautiful. The art of accompanying. Thank you.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 27 Nov 2013, 03:25

WHO IS A CRITIC?
This is a CRUCIAL SUBJECT AREA I want to discuss & elicit opinions as contributions& acheivements of LGJ have been coloured & affected to some extent by VERY SHORT SIGHTED as well as ILL INFORMED CRITICS.
I consider in terms of Carnatic Music "Kalki" Krishnamurthy to be the ideal critic because he KNEW Music & could EXPRESS himself brilliantly. The ones from the Golden era I wish to talk about are: Subbudu (whose inspiration was Kalki acc. to him),NMN, SVK, & Rangaramanuja Iyengar. Except the last one THE REST I classify as FRUSTRATED MUSICIANS WITH HALF BAKED KNOWLEDGE ALMOST EQUIVALENT TO MINE; Their qualifications were EQUIVALENT to mine: They claimed to come from musical families,having learnt music & having interest etc. SO DO I! Just bec of this what they write do not make it the bible.
Actually what SVK said about LGJ (PP 168-169 OF L.D.'S BOOK) I intend studying from the definition of the GREAT N.Y.TIMES MUSIC CRITIC Harold Schoenberg who said "Criticism is only informed opinion".
An interesting aside: I visited Late Great Editor of "HINDU" Sri.G.Kasturi to discuss Los Alamos Science& Physics at his request & in addition to other subjects he wanted to know what I thought of Hindu's music critics esp what they wrote. I had the previous day attended a MOST MEMORABLE MDR-PAPA V- T.S. CONCERT IN M.A. (1966) in the company of R.K.Narayan & Higgins Bhagavathar & NMN had trashed it not by talking about his music but that he was drinking something from the flask all the time- he was afraid he was going to eat tiffin next!- & that review had appeared in the morning Hindu. RKN was VERY ANGRY & asked me to mention about IRRELEVENT WRITING IN HINDU MUSIC REVEWS. I had taken a BRILLIANT REVIEW of a concert by Thelonius Monk in N.Y.Times by Harold Schoenberg to give Sri.G.Kasturi. Subbudu had similarly written TRASH about LGJ VKV (to be continued)

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 27 Nov 2013, 03:57

CONTINUATION[update][/update] OF POST#67:
I demanded a meeting with him; He avoided me 10 times ; Finally I MET HIM in the elevator in CLEVELAND FESTIVAL where I had to escort him to an award he was being given!:
Similarly SVK IN 1972 HAD WRITTEN (L.D. P 168) : "It looked as if from start to finish the lay out of the concert had been decided at home.....Such concerts generally are neither disappointing nor extraordinarly exciting"
SVK is plain wrong. I have been present before LGJ, Dwaram & Mali just before leaving home for the concert & witnessed them actually PRACTISING key & NEW things they were going to play that particular day. SVK's understanding of MANODHARMA is plainly devoid of what is needed for PERFECTION for a concert. Just because you are afforded a forum & you have listened for 50 years etc it does not follow what you write is valid....As LGJ has remarked" You practise your sangatis , alapanas, swara-korvais to a degree of perfection which shd. leave no room -absolutely no scope- for experimentation on the dais. On the stage you are performing, you are not experimenting or doing satakam".
I wanted to write this as we are embarking on LGJ'S Manodharma next. VKV :-@

alpajnani · Post by **alpajnani** » 27 Nov 2013, 05:26

cacm wrote: Similarly SVK IN 1972 HAD WRITTEN (L.D. P 168) : "It looked as if from start to finish the lay out of the concert had been decided at home.....Such concerts generally are neither disappointing nor extraordinarly exciting"

I find this statement quite intriguing. Unless one were present at "home" where this was decided and practiced, why would one not find it extraordinarily exciting (unless what was presented was bland in the first place.....)? It is "new" to you regardless (and thus the bias shows?!!)

Along these lines, a more scientifically apt inquiry would be to compare and contrast Lalgudi playing as an accompanist (where "manodharma" was 100% impromptu - following the SVK logic!), against his violin solo concerts (where "manodharma" was created at home per SVK). As LD's excellent book depicts, with LGJ as the accompanist, certain artistes such as the Alathoor brothers even went to the extent of keeping LGJ in the dark on even the basic structure of the pallavi's they were going to present to try and test/challenge him and as is well recorded in history he not only rose to those challenges but went beyond (doesn't that in and of itself speak volumes about how good his manodharma was?).

I personally am yet to discern any differnce in quality in these two "contrasting" situations (i.e. the soloist vs. the accompanist). There are instances perhaps where the accompanyst LGJ was perceived as better than the soloist LGJ - and that has perhaps to do with the back and forth between him and other giants like MMI/MDR/SSI etc. etc. where 2+2>4. I can, perhaps given my limited knowledge of music, percieve similar 2+2>4 situations as Shrimati Brahmanandam and GJR Krishnan matured in their violin duets with LGJ. You can also see such interplay leading to greater heights with TS, Palghat Raghu, and PMI accompanying LGJ as well.

An interesting anecdote to this last aspect (and outside this subtopic as such)- sometime in the mid 90's I had the distinct honor of driving Vellore Ramabhadran (and if I remember right GJR as well) to a concert. I had a tape of LGJ accompanied by PMI playing in the car. I got a nice education of what PMI was "asking" LGJ to play and how LGJ not only played what he was asking for, but went one step beyond (it is an amazing feeling when you have VR sitting in the back seat putting tala on your shoulder and explaining this to you - I guess I just feel lucky!!). Obviously it took someone with the vidwat of VR to explain it to a near idiot like me - but I have since listened for and sometimes understood/appreciated this interplay (I had until then thought such interplay was limited to melodic instruments and not w.r.t. rhythm - but how wrong I was!!)

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 27 Nov 2013, 06:25

SVK is plain wrong.

Of the entire lot of reviewers, I find that SVK is probably the worst. I find his understanding of carnatic music to be at such an amateur level that he doesn't get most of what artistes attempt to do. And then he adds a whole lot of abstruse verbiage which make little sense. We have discussed his terrible reviews on this forum on several occasions.

On top of the list of reviewers VKV mentioned, I would add Sruthi magazine (from that period, not sure what they are like anymore) to the list of BS peddlers (if you will pardon my Francais). In my opinion, they stood for the worst standards of yellow journalism in the entire history of Carnatic music.

I had a tape of LGJ accompanied by PMI playing in the car. I got a nice education of what PMI was "asking" LGJ to pl ay and how LGJ not only played what he was asking for, but went one step beyond (it is an amazing feeling when you have VR sitting in the back seat putting tala on your shoulder and explaining this to you - I guess I just feel lucky!!).

Alpajnani, Yes you are indeed fortunate. I would be amazed if people could reproduce what LGJ did impromptu, even if they rehearsed the piece several hundred times. There are some kalpanaswarams (even sarvalaghu patterns) that I have heard that could not have come from any thing but just a stream of consciousness. And LGJ took so many audience requests (not just for mohanam and kalyani), but would produce an amazing nAtakapriya or vanaspati on demand. It takes intense sAdhakam to arrive at that level of performance of even kalpita sangeetham.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 27 Nov 2013, 06:38

There are instances perhaps where the accompanyst LGJ was perceived as better than the soloist LGJ - and that has perhaps to do with the back and forth between him and other giants

The maestro once got mildly irritated with my fascination for his accompaniment (as understood in the context of comparison with his solos ) and demanded : What is it that exactly tickles you .
I had replied : Well it is like this
While in a solo , you are like a master chef in your own kitchen
While accompanying , you are like a master chef in a kitchen you are not fully familiar with.
And not once in thousands of hours listening to you have I observed , not even once , you stuttering in your replies . It was always seamless , flawless .
And then there was that quality of playing top notch responses in a manner that said - let the spot light remain on the main artist ...----

He was amused , agreed and went on to tell me about an afternoon when he accompanied GNB at AIR with MM Iyer AS compatriot for the day ...and then accompanying MM Iyer in the evening with GNB as compatriot for the evening .
He had only an hour in between to feed himself .
On the steps of AIR Delhi with two giants helping him out ...
Maybe you have a point after all - about accompanying vs solos , he concluded .

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 27 Nov 2013, 08:14

I think SVK is very knowledgeable man, good critic, and I may not agree with some of his reviews. NM Narayanan (from Hindu) was also very knowledgeable, and a good critic, but he had his favorites - NMN was a huge fan of Brinda, Ramnad Krishnan, KVN and was not too kind to some other musicians. SVK is the same. He is also a rasika and has some pet musicians.

I have my favorite musicians and ragas and when I hear those I get excited. One GN pidi in Kamboji will make it a day for me.

Subbudu, I will not take him seriously and I think he wanted more jokes at the expense of musicians than his expression of enjoyment of music.

Old Ananda Vikatan reviewers (from 1950s) were great.

cacm sir, I envy you, since you had attended the MDR / Papa / Sankaran - Music Academy concert in person ! What a concert it must have been to listen in person.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 27 Nov 2013, 09:34

Dear A, I STILL CANNOT GET OVER THE EXPERIENCE OF THAT CONCERT-BLISS IN HEAVEN!- & thats why I cannot even today understand how any critic can write what amounts to distraction & non-sense. I knew NMN & asked him about it bec I am a fan of Brinda as well as Ramnad Krishnan also! one does not exclude or preclude the other....In those days many of the great vidwans were on stage openly enjoying the concerts of ther other greats. The '66 concert of MMI I was transported by his MAA JANAKI with TNK-V.R. encouraging him with their playing & EVERY ONE was in a state of TRANCE! Certainly those days were truly exciting....VKV

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 27 Nov 2013, 09:49

mahavishnu wrote:
Of the entire lot of reviewers, I find that SVK is probably the worst. I find his understanding of carnatic music to be at such an amateur level that he doesn't get most of what artistes attempt to do. And then he adds a whole lot of abstruse verbiage which make little sense. We have discussed his terrible reviews on this forum on several occasions.

Not sure who you are comparing him with here because in my opinion he is a class above the rest, mainly because his passion for carnatic music is abundantly palpable in his reviews. Granted he has his biases, but that does not detract from the quality of his reviews. He has been doing this for many decades, so the "amateur" tag is out of place. May be you are the one who is not getting what he is attempting to do and are expecting a performer oriented running commentary rather than a critique.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 27 Nov 2013, 09:56

Dear Sri Suresh, I object to SVK'S misrepresenting LGJ'S manodharmam aspects when it is QUITE WELL KNOWN that MOST MUSICIANS carefully practise things (out of respect for the audienc) before presenting them on the platform. ARI for example refused to present any kriti before he had practised (& sung in front of others in private) at least 80 times. I am hoping to discuss in some detail what can be considered Manodharman. VKV

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 27 Nov 2013, 10:07

cacm wrote: Similarly SVK IN 1972 HAD WRITTEN (L.D. P 168) : "It looked as if from start to finish the lay out of the concert had been decided at home.....Such concerts generally are neither disappointing nor extraordinarly exciting"
SVK is plain wrong. I have been present before LGJ, Dwaram & Mali just before leaving home for the concert & witnessed them actually PRACTISING key & NEW things they were going to play that particular day.

On the contrary, from your narrative it appears that SVK was clairvoyant. May be you mentioned it to him during the concert

...As LGJ has remarked" You practise your sangatis , alapanas, swara-korvais to a degree of perfection which shd. leave no room -absolutely no scope- for experimentation on the dais. On the stage you are performing, you are not experimenting or doing satakam".

While I subscribe to this viewpoint, I have been present on rare occasions when the performer surprises himself. It is a thin line between experimentation and adventure.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 27 Nov 2013, 10:11

Suresh, I can see from your previous posts that you often come forward to defend SVK and that you think highly of him. I do not. I find his writing to be amateurish, at best. All that I can find abundantly palpable in his reviews are his excessive verbiage and malapropisms. I can pull out quotes from his reviews that I find to be vacuous and re-live some posts that have been made in this forum earlier by myself and several others.

But instead, let's just agree to disagree on this issue.

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 27 Nov 2013, 10:20

For one, I say that the comment about LGJ's music not being emotional was just so WRONG on so many levels I cannot imagine how LGJ of all musicians was accused of not playing with bhaavam. While I respect critics and musicians, this one particular thing caught my eye while reading the book and it was just so incorrect.

The criticism about his swaras being too formulaic and lackign spontaneity is also not true. The swara kalpana in that incredible Meru Samaana recording has so many phrases (especially the opening swara round, the introduction of a few lilting patterns and the entire final set of kalpanaswaras played by LGJ where at the end he finds a spot to introduce an ending pattern (S,S NND DDP PPM MGRSN SRGM - Kalamuna sobhillu) is spontaneous. In that album also there are many places where GJR takes all sorts of risks trying to match his father and many times comes up with something amazing building on top of LGJ's swaras out of the blue. The aesthetic of the swara kalpana feels like one is listening to an elaborate speech describing Maayamaalavagowla and not just some sequences of swaras. It is not correct to say that LGJ did not take risks while playing.

Also it is a tendency (In India especially) that when one hears anything beyond one's level, it is dismissed as ''intellectual'' never mind how nice it may be. In fact that is also just an extension of the opinion of many lay listeners that Carnatic classical music is too ''intellectual''. Particularly throw in a little rhythm and some slightly complex swara patterns and that's all it takes. The fact is LGJ's laya skill was so far above all others that he could play kalpanaswaras like no other. He also had to stretch them a bit which is a) reminiscent of the ''Test match'' era of music and also b) Because the violin cannot explore neraval as much as vocal due to it's inability to speak and in the end it sometimes sounds like kalapanaswaras played Legato. There were some times where he tried to explore as many variations of a porutham ending as possible and that might have felt a little repetitive or stretched to the ''One day and T-20'' type of rasikas.

Tala rendering is a very difficult challenge for violinists as such and is by far the biggest barrier between a violinist and his manodharma in a solo concert. LGJ has to be given the credit for demolishing that barrier which allowed him to take challenges in neraval, swaras and RTPs that were not attempted before by any violinist. In my opinion, creative energy also has to be provided some direction so that it can focus and develop on a particular track. Indisciplined creativity often loses track of where it has to go and often wanders around like a horse without a rider, sometimes undoing everything that might have been achieved earlier which I have had the pain of experiencing in quite a few concerts -- often turning into a kanakku or a speed contest or just not knowing when to stop or worse -- blank spots. It's a hit and miss, missing often and occasionally hitting something new. That's not acceptable for international standard concert delivery that LGJ wanted. On a good day it's an asset. On a less than optimal day, there must be a backup to fall back on whether it is prior preparation or past experience or else the quality of concert presentation goes down.

While critics and their experience have to be respected and their feedback needed for upholding the standards of the art, one should also note that critics are human beings as well and have biases. Plus I do not think any critic could dissect music like LGJ himself could. A proper analysis of the cerebral and emotional aspects LGJ's music will reveal the truth. Especially the statement that his music was not emotional is simply not experienced fact as all rasikas of LGJ's music have felt for themselves. I am going to go listen to ''Theerada Vilayaatu Pillai'' now.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 27 Nov 2013, 10:35

SrinathK wrote: I am going to go listen to ''Theerada Vilayaatu Pillai'' now.

adai kaN mUDi vAi tirandE kETtiruppOm!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 27 Nov 2013, 10:37

mahavishnu wrote:Suresh, I can see from your previous posts that you often come forward to defend SVK and that you think highly of him.

Only when he is denigrated without even an attempt to understand or dissect the "excessive verbiage". I am afraid I will have to jump in every time this happens. Anyone who gushes so nicely about Carnatic Music deserves my defense

But as you suggest, we can agree to disagree until then.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 27 Nov 2013, 10:53

Dear Srinath k,
I AGREE with you reg. the "limitations " of violin reg. neraval but I wish to bring to your attention what MMI himself told me in TWO instances (I used to visit him after EVERY CONCERT till I left for USA with my close friend S.S.Venkataraman). One had to do with neraval in Kalinil Silambu where MMI SAID LGJ'S responses & urging him on with PSP made him reach heights he never imagined existed!It was LGJ'S PASSION & EMOTIONAL APPROACH he said which moved him. Second there is a close to one hour RENDITION in a Shanmugananda concert of Kanakkankodi in which LGJ& PMI take the whole neraval to unbelievable heights & MMI follows it with his UNBELIEVABLE kalpanaswaras followed by LGJ& PMI having a session of their OWN with MMI APPRECIATING THEIR GENIUS which I do not have the ability to describe!
EMOTION+PASSION + ABILITY TO OVERCOME ANY INSTRUMENTAL LIMITATION + TECHNICAL EXCELLENCE=LGJ....VKV

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 27 Nov 2013, 12:25

Dear Vkv sir, the statement I made was in context of LGJ's solo recitals. Now that you have told me about this recording I should find it.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 27 Nov 2013, 17:04

VKV
On your question 'Who is Critic?'
Criticism is deployment of skills involved in analysis, evaluation, reporting, reviewing and judging the quality of artistic work of art, with purpose. The quint essential attention, focus and concerns of the music critic is clear and perfect understanding, experiencing pleasure or displeasure, describing, interpreting, commenting or delivering judgment upon the musical experience of his own and also the connoisseurs present-implicit and explicit.

"Creative activity of the artist is called as prakhya or kaarayitri pratibha (creative flash of intuitive genius) and that of the connoisseur, upaakhyaa or bhavayitri pratibha (reproductive or contemplative genius). The connoisseur and the critic, thus becoming Sa Hridaya.
Art criticism is always based on its co extensiveness with the art and should cover all aspects, con-temporarily relevant. Inherent and constant challenge is conflict management of cultivated and mass consciousness and communication. But the intrinsic value, quality and strength of a work of art and the artist with its possession are directly proportional to its/their capacity to withstand and survive, unfriendly(unjustified) or opposing criticism or idolatry, retaining and reflecting originality."-Shri R.Sathyanarayana, a great scholar, musician and musicologist in his book "The principles and practices of music criticism"

SVK's critical appreciation should not be missed, while focusing on his critical review or reporting. Without his eminent qualification The Hindu would not have hired his services or given him the status.
Fact is every performer's presentation is 95% premeditated and 5% is spontaneous thinking and expression/communication. It is also fact that once artist reaches certain high standards with few exceptions of rare occasion, the offering will be recreating the value and pleasure. The progress to highest standards over the higher standards attained is very difficult, if not impossible The artist strives to maintain the attained standards with continued sadhana. All artists, including ARI, were fully aware of this phenomena. Only critic(s) either are not aware or pretend not being aware while writing criticism of this aspect of the performer with urge to review/report differently. Artist(s) and rasikas should give their well considered opinion or feed back to the Editor. Editors do interfere if the critic has not observed the editorial standards to take corrective action.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 27 Nov 2013, 21:42

munirao2001 wrote:VKV
On your question 'Who is Critic?'
Criticism is deployment of skills involved in analysis, evaluation, reporting, reviewing and judging the quality of artistic work of art, with purpose. The quint essential attention, focus and concerns of the music critic is clear and perfect understanding, experiencing pleasure or displeasure, describing, interpreting, commenting or delivering judgment upon the musical experience of his own and also the connoisseurs present-implicit and explicit.

"Creative activity of the artist is called as prakhya or kaarayitri pratibha (creative flash of intuitive genius) and that of the connoisseur, upaakhyaa or bhavayitri pratibha (reproductive or contemplative genius). The connoisseur and the critic, thus becoming Sa Hridaya.
Art criticism is always based on its co extensiveness with the art and should cover all aspects, con-temporarily relevant. Inherent and constant challenge is conflict management of cultivated and mass consciousness and communication. But the intrinsic value, quality and strength of a work of art and the artist with its possession are directly proportional to its/their capacity to withstand and survive, unfriendly(unjustified) or opposing criticism or idolatry, retaining and reflecting originality."-Shri R.Sathyanarayana, a great scholar, musician and musicologist in his book "The principles and practices of music criticism"

SVK's critical appreciation should not be missed, while focusing on his critical review or reporting. Without his eminent qualification The Hindu would not have hired his services or given him the status.
All artists, including ARI, were fully aware of this phenomena. Only critic(s) either are not aware or pretend not being aware while writing criticism of this aspect of the performer with urge to review/report differently. Artist(s) and rasikas should give their well considered opinion or feed back to the Editor. Editors do interfere if the critic has not observed the editorial standards to take corrective action.

........

I AGREE with what you have written. As you have pointed out in the last paragraph symbolically we are saying 1+1=2 which is WELL KNOWN to every one. When I asked EDITORS of several newspapers& magazines specifically on the LAST Paragraph above without EXCEPTION they pretty conceded that these "CRITICS" had established a reputation & MORE COPIES of their PAPERS are being sold. Many of them had not even read what the critic had written. In my way of looking at things, I CANNOT BRING myself to bring the Trinity as well as the many artists involved to this VERY MUNDANE LEVEL & just changed the subject. REGS, VKV [-x

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 28 Nov 2013, 01:27

[quote="sureshvv"]
Similarly SVK IN 1972 HAD WRITTEN (L.D. P 168) : "It looked as if from start to finish the lay out of the concert had been decided at home.....Such concerts generally are neither disappointing nor extraordinarly exciting"
"SVK is plain wrong. I have been present before LGJ, Dwaram & Mali just before leaving home for the concert & witnessed them actually PRACTISING key & NEW things they were going to play that particular day" (vkv).
On the contrary, from your narrative it appears that SVK was clairvoyant. May be you mentioned it to him during the concert

APPRECIATE your light hearted approach but I am against OBVIOUSTHINGS from a SUPPOSEDLY leading CRITIC

...As LGJ has remarked" You practise your sangatis , alapanas, swara-korvais to a degree of perfection which shd. leave no room -absolutely no scope- for experimentation on the dais. On the stage you are performing, you are not experimenting or doing satakam".
While I subscribe to this viewpoint, I have been present on rare occasions when the performer surprises himself. It is a thin line between experimentation and adventure.
I contend there is ENOUGH experimentation & adventure EVERY TIME. I have discussed with MMI & LGJ ESPECIALLY THIS ASPECT. BOTH were brutally frank & used to demonstrate what they tried to do & how it came out in the concert. They were VERY CRITCAL & HONEST a very rare trait which enabled them to reach greater heights. VKV

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 28 Nov 2013, 07:49

varsha wrote:
He was amused , agreed and went on to tell me about an afternoon when he accompanied GNB at AIR with MM Iyer AS compatriot for the day ...and then accompanying MM Iyer in the evening with GNB as compatriot for the evening .
He had only an hour in between to feed himself .

You can listen to TMS sing and conclude if this song is from SIvaji movie or MGR movie - Naanga Pudusa Kattikitta - u know it is MGR movie or Anda Naal mudhal Endha naal - Sivaji movie. My guess is TMS adjusted his voice according to the hero - which other singers like PBS or SPB or KJY did not attempt.

It seems to me - LGJ violin sounds different (from the violin tone, bowing) and his approach to the ragas and the kalpana swaras is so different from a GNB concert or a MMI concert or a Semmangudi concert.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 28 Nov 2013, 10:57

annamalai
I am very happy to read your post mentioning about Lalgudi mama's excellence of tonal volume to merge, highlight and surprise the Great Maestros/Maestros he was accompanying. Lalgudi mama's accompaniment to MDR in particular was always extraordinary and set the high standards for many others to follow. It was both cerebral and mastery of controlled violin playing techniques. Great Maestro was crystal clear that the techniques are subservient to the ideals, quality and value of karnatic music and never got tempted to using the excessive technical mastery to excite the rasikas and secure the mechanical and in the present times instinctive clapping. Lalgudi mama's strive for offering excellence lead to consistency in offering sampradaya sudha sangita and earned the true appreciation with immense sadhana, comparable to many Great Maestros, ARI specifically. I request VKV Sir to bring this out in his planned book, if Smt.Lakshmi Devanathan's book has missed this very important aspect.

munirao2001

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 28 Nov 2013, 11:22

Suresh observed " on rare occasions when the performer surprises himself. It is a thin line between experimentation and adventure".
Immense power of sadhana of kalpita sangita enables and energizes the performer to deep in to manodharma and achieve the adbhuta or 'AH' moments. As Lalgudi mama himself has told that this is neither experimentation or adventure on the stage, but divine or spiritual realization moments for the performer and the rasikas. Experimentation and adventure is very much about techniques-be it vocal or instrumental.

VKV opined that "I contend there is ENOUGH experimentation & adventure EVERY TIME". No Sir. Inspired or challenged the performer offers impromptu responses, show casing their vidwath but not experimenting and adventuring every time. Obsessed with the skills acquired on the technique, many performers do experiment every time and even adventure on rare occasions, with both the performer and the majority of the rasikas unmindful of the missing visradhi and sowkhyam quality in music.

munirao2001

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 28 Nov 2013, 11:31

VKV Sir opined "I CANNOT BRING myself to bring the Trinity as well as the many artists involved to this VERY MUNDANE LEVEL".
Sir do not miss out the intent of the reviewer to urge the performer to offer higher values of their vidwath through constructive criticism with focus on the content of the published review or report. Is this aspect of constructive criticism is 'very mundane level'? No Sir.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 28 Nov 2013, 11:50

Sri munirao, What is constructive in a "critic" just writing something trivial after an excellent concert of close to 4 hours? It took me years even to utter a word to these GENIUSES.....Mandolin S cut down his playing in Madras after similar criticism by a so called critic who wrote a similar kind of thing after a flawless BRILLIANT concert again close to 4 hours. Its discouraging esp as he could make a thousand dollars in one hour as opposed to a thousand rupees in madras. Frankly reminds me of what George Bernard Shaw said: Those who can do it.Those who cannot write about it....VKV

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 28 Nov 2013, 21:48

Digressing from LGJ to critics -

I have heard that a critic pretty harsh on GNB's rendition of ParvathaRaja Kumari (Sreeranjani) in his 1956 Music Academy concert and GNB was quite hurt by those words. In 1980s - Deja vu all over again - MLV sang the same Parvatha Raja Kumari and the same harsh review. Inspite of these critical words, it did not deter the ardent music aficionado rasikas to flock or GNB and MLV concerts.

I had attended a DKJ concert @ Music Academy which I enjoyed immensely, but I was perplexed that the Hindu reviewer was lukewarm about it.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 28 Nov 2013, 22:10

Dear Sri Annamalai,
It shows that (somewhat like the U.S.Electorate-tho' this is somewhat questionable) THE AUDIENCE & RASIKAS instinctively VOTED for good music & ignored the almost inane criticisms& pseudo-reviews of the critics. If this had not happened we would not have enjoyed the brilliance of Flute Mali, Madurai Mani Iyer & known that GENIUS can overcome semi-knowledgeable "critics"! GNB especially was unfairly attacked by not just by the so called critics but many other musicians themselves because he WAS BOTH THE CROWNED & UNCROWNED EMPEROR when he broke thru' like Comet (Ison?!) & it actually affected him...As there appears to be LOT of interest& opinion about Critics may be some one can open a separate post on CRITICS so we can objectively discuss what the credentials & role of a critic ideally should be. It will be topical as the season is about to start. I have great faith that this generation- unlike mine!- in my opinion is both knowledgeable & objective on a statistical basis at least......VKV

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 28 Nov 2013, 22:15

SVK Criticism about Sri lalgudi Concert

In case a concert is to be presented,It has to be planned to some extent particularly in a duet concert.I do not understand SVK's criticism.Sri Lalgudi has aptly put it that he will continue his job and SVK continue his job. Lalgudiji's creative abilities are beyond the scope of any music critic.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 28 Nov 2013, 22:18

HNB, YOU are so right & I am glad you have exposed the case of the Emperor's clothes syndrome! VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 29 Nov 2013, 00:21

pl delete this post

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 29 Nov 2013, 01:52

pl delete this post

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 29 Nov 2013, 01:53

[quote="cacm"][quote="cacm"]Attempted Discussion on Raga, Raga Alapana, Raghabhava etc pertaining to lgj:[update][/update]
I am trying to start a discussion on MANODHARMA (Considered the Bedrock & unique feature of Carnatic Music) of LGJ starting with the summarizing of definitions in L.D.'S BOOK- Acc to her the definitions are based on Dr.N.Ramanthan's guidance- : Raga or Ragam are governed by Grammatical rules and determine the recognisable melody potential created out of swaras of varying numbers. Non-lyrical and non-rythmic essays constitute Alapana covering three octaves. The melodic structure thus created covers three octaves. Generally it is conceded that GNB was the unchallenged EMPEROR in the GOLDEN AGE in this area. Also USUALLY in this area of MANODHARMA there are broadly THREE categories: A VERY INTELLECTUAL approach symbolised by GNB Raga based which was EXHAUSTIVE; He typically explored this area in THREE SEGMENTS. The SWARA BASED APPROACH:Madurai Mani Iyer's strengths lay in the Swara area & he was supreme in Ragas like Nalinakanthi, Rasali, and almost any rare raga which he could expound at great length without REPITITION. Finally BHAVA BASED ONES which I would say was typified by Bhava& emotion; Madurai Somasundaram was typical here. In addition ARI was SUPREME in his own way in that he could expound practically EVERYTHING in one minute or one hour! Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer was BRILLIANT& UNIQUE ( say in Mohanam, Arabhi etc). Of course in practice ALL these aspects are combined by most performers as they try to take the good points from everyone. LGJ was particularly considered to be a SPONGE who could absorb & ALSO INCORPORATE things with just one time hearing.
LGJ TRULY REPRESENTS the evolution & continuation of THYAGABRAHMAM'S LEGACY thru' his forefathers; His father Gopala Iyer has said he taught LGJ whatever there was to learn till the 1945 period from the great masters who preceded him. With that RUNNING START LGJ by his own accompanying GIANTS from very early on ADDED to this & what we heard from him is equivalent to EVOLUTION (Darwin style) of the accumulated knowledge already hard wired in him.
In terms of his Raga elaboration etc he closely followed GNB'S APPROACH most of the time. As he had the opportunity to DISCUSS with GNB on a regular basis- L.D. POINTS OUT IN THE BOOK how he REGULARLY DISCUSSED VARIOUS ASPECTS with GNB to the point that Raga Sivasakthi might have evolved out of LGJ'S Suggestion during a Discussion etc- he incorporated many of GNB'S APPRAOACHES. TO PARAPHRASE L.D.& DR.N.R. LGJ BHANI OF RAGA Alapanas was structured with a step by step approach, halting on a note and proceeding to expand around it. Elaborate Raga Alapanas were prefaced by a clear picture of identity of the raga with proceeding to a thorough exploration. As L.D. has pointed out a Scholar from University of Colgne has said that there is hardly another school than LGJ that can unravel a raga in two minutes flat!
LGJ with his incessant study & unrelenting practice ACTULLY EVOLVED HIS BHANI in such a way to include the best of the Golden Era Artists in his renderings. TO BE CONTINUED IN NEXT POST VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 29 Nov 2013, 02:00

[update][/update] CONTINUUED FROM PREVIOUS POST#97:[update][/update]

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 29 Nov 2013, 02:12

cacm wrote:[update][/update] CONTINUUED FROM PREVIOUS POST#97:[update][/update]

LGJ in addition to the GNB Approach because of his incessant study of others + incredible Sathakam+his OWN MANODHARMAM ENHANCED HIS BHANI by incorporating from other Greats their unique approaches. For example in MOHANAM he has included MVI'S+MMI'S Innovative things + his own ADDITIONS! So depending on which Raga he expounded he has emphasised GNB, MMI, MVI , OR SOMU'S Emphasis for various ragas. CONSEQUENTLY WHAT LGJ PRESENTED WAS THE BEST OF THE PREVIOUS PERFORMERS + HIS OWN UNIQUE ADDITIONAL CREATIVITY. This also depended on whether he was rendering Kalyani (GNB), THODI (TNR), Mohanam (MVI, MMI), Hamsanadham (Somu) etc and the context. For example MURUGAN involved had extra dose of Emotion& passion etc.
I JUST WISH TO START THE DISCUSSION AS I AM SURE OTHERS CAN ELUCIDATE & EXPAND ON WHAT I AM TRYING TO WRITE HERE...SO I STOP SO OTHERS CAN CONTRIBUTE......VKV

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 29 Nov 2013, 10:57

VKV Sir
Permit me to post about Critic and SVK's much discussed opinion "neither disappointing nor extraordinarly exciting". SVK, must indeed must be thanked for unwittingly highlighting the high ideal of Lalgudi mama- consistently high quality music strengthened with sadhana, not disappointing rasikas and deliberately and consciously choosing not to excite the rasikas with excessive violin playing techniques, sticking to the sampradaya of vadhya dharma.