TM Krishna's view in The Hindu dt 13/dec

PuduvaiSivam · Post by **PuduvaiSivam** » 15 Dec 2013, 11:23

I was shocked to read a reference to the birth of MS Subbulaksmi in the above.It is mischievous and shows the casteist mind set of TM Krishna who does not have the basic decenccy of not insulting the dead.The whole reference to that great carnatic musician is in the category of vanja pugazhchi ani(posturing as glorifying with concealed sarcasm)I vehemently condemn him for his nasty remarks

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 15 Dec 2013, 13:13

It is a wrong take. TMK has written a glorious piece on MS in his website long back. I am sure he has the highest regard for her. The point he is making is about male domination and treating the women achievers as lesser. In the same vein, he makes a reference to DKP about RTP, not that she was second to any, but that she was not the first woman to break into that hitherto male bastion. TMK has a way of being forthright, no euphemisms for him. I do not think we should read motives into his writing. He is far too candid to insinuate anything. If anything, he is free of any casteist or religious bias. There is more substance in his writing that we can debate, forgetting any undertones which must be incidental and not central to his exposition.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 15 Dec 2013, 13:47

kvchellappa..well said...

People tend to see things that are not there...neither they know MSS nor TMK..

See the link below...

http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22536

Ponbhairavi · Post by **Ponbhairavi** » 15 Dec 2013, 16:28

TMK may have the best regards and respects for MSS but a printed textspeaks for itself.If it conveys ambivalent meaning the author should be advised to change it." A dasi became Meera."
If the author wants to emphasize the meteoric rise in the musical field he should have put from the temple prakarams to Carnegie hall. If he wants to emphasize the social respectability acquired by her he should have put from modest origins to Bharath Ratna. Meera does not automatically confer any respectability.There are many other actresses dasis who have donned the role of meera andal naradar or krishna.Moreover the status of meera came to her very early inhercareer and does not warrant "became." In any case dasi is an unnecessary usage. My be by slip and i hope we should advise krishna to change it.I am aware that dasi in the sanscrit usage has no pejorative meaning. But the tamil nadu connotation will send wrong signals.
Mss has also sung amny songs of bharathi. While DKP chose patriotic songs( in cinema background, MSS chose songs with sheer poetic and lyrical content to be sung in concert platforms.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 15 Dec 2013, 16:38

Beyond a point, debate becomes repetitive. There are many ways in which we would like to write something. So would TMK. He writes as he sees and feels. If he will write what strikes us, it will not be his book. I wrote my genuine assessment of him, having watched his music and views for a while. My point is still, let us look at the whole and not some part, which may shock our sensibility. Well, just as I have an opinion of him, so do others. I do not contest that. It is now in the public domain, and credit to TMK, his 'objectionable' views have been bared, and let the people vote with their purse.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 15 Dec 2013, 17:19

Shri Ponbairavi

Kindly do not pick out just two words and see it in isolation..

This is what he has written.
" Contrasts in Shot-Silk
Subbulakshmi was born to a devadasi mother, Madurai Shanmukhavadivu (1889–1962), herself a vina artist. Subbulakshmi’s life changed with the move to Madras and her marriage to T. Sadasivam, a brahmin who was already married, a father of two daughters, freedom fighter and very well connected in political and business circles. In this new house, Subbulakshmi became ‘MS’, a divinity that lives until today. A dasi became Mira.

The bhakti music of MS was beautiful, uplifting, unforgettable, but the fact that there was another ‘MS music’ that was capable of being, and did indeed become, serious with all the rigour of art music has been lost to the legend of the ‘divine MS’. I regard this as a great loss. .........."
I do not find any thing that will damage her reputation..

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 15 Dec 2013, 18:13

Dear ladies and gentlemen,
The frequent and variously worded discussions by and of TMK, of the need to shear off all other aspects of CM to the isolation of pure musicality is a bit getting on my nerves.
Sorry.
Carnatic music, however you spell it and present it, is a compound of music, lyric and dynamic of creativity. To distill it until you have left in the crucible only musicality and not sentiment and context is GOING TOO FAR AND PERHAPS GOING NOWHERE.
Imagine someone were to isolate only the sweetness and not the aroma and texture of gulab jamoon. Imagine if one were to strip a tiger of his stripes and ferocity and make him a PURE CAT.

IF TMK sings his pure music WITHOUT LYRICS, without context, it will NOT remain Carnatic music and I daresay it won't even have the stamp of TMK.

Did you know that PURE water is colourless, flavourless and TASTELESS? I prefer my sip of Cauvery (however you spell it or pour it).

Nti

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 15 Dec 2013, 18:27

Unfortunately here ,TMK is accused of the usage of words 'A dasi became Mira.'

Other views of TMK have not been touched upon...

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 15 Dec 2013, 19:14

Yes, what Mr. Sachi discusses is on the issue, whereas the preceding posts questioned in righteous indignation the reference to MS perceived as an insult, not the motif of the book.
I would fully agree with Mr. Sachi that CM has to be seen as a whole just as a human being has to be seen as a person, not as comprising chemicals some of which are essential. But, I have to first read and understand what TMK says in the book.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 16 Dec 2013, 12:08

I am giving the copy of the letter to the Editor, the Hindu on TMK's interview, a pre release promotional of his book ' Southern Music-the Karnatic story'.
"Dear Editor,
It was interesting interview of T.M.Krishna on his book ‘A Southern Music-the karnatic story, Dt.15-Dec-13. My thoughts on some of TMK’s views and opinions are:
1. ‘Concept of Art music, a specific concept. Music is abstract, a wonderful potentiality and possibilities, in evolution based on the naada, the power of sound. To demystify the sound and harness its power, search was made. Structure or svaroopa was conceived, given distinct identity. Its acceptance and sadhana resulted in the establishment of seven notes, its subtle variations of additional five notes and with shadja and panchama as the prime svarams representing the primordial naada. In the recent times, realization that the world music is based on the twelve notes is universally accepted. This development through perception, realization, practice and values giving pleasure is Art in the mystic music. Result of the quest for perceiving the abstract-mano maya by the great thinkers and composers lead to the revelation of experience, with itcha matra. With the need felt for self abnegation through naadanubhuti, the state of Being, the seed of power and energy, retention of memory in sub consciousness, giving expression and communicating in consciousness, resulted in self expansion. Success in partaking the realized pleasure of the self with other selves and the experience, unity in diversity, made it possible for giving the form, content and delivery, as emmanent of the abstract, while the yet to be revealed still is imminent.
2. ‘Words are the worst way to describe art’. Not attaching value to the deficiencies in the usage of words, the persons with the mastery in the usage of words for expressing, communicating, helping to understand the imagination, creativity and its values have contributed to the development and growth of the art, its intrinsic worth and experience. TMK desires his words can aid for better experience of a concert.
3. Focus of carnatic music in the present times is also based on the two goals of carnatic music-the vivarta-the ideal and the pradana-wordly or materialistic, in continuity of the tradition, a celebration of excellence. First one, the ideal is Self Being, the seed and the very character of creativity and Self pure consciousness, the observer and observed phenomena. The second one, the Self Delight, the enjoyer of bliss and the giver of bliss in entertaining. Great Maestro Ariyakudi conceptualized the modern cutcheri with the contents achieving both the goals. It is true that the present times concerts is pure entertainment, with rare glimpses of the ideal.
4. ‘No room for light miscellaneous’. Before the modern cutcheri form and content given by Ariyakudi, cutcheri did not have ‘light miscellaneous’. Ariyakudi conceptualized light miscellaneous as fillers with the values of either rhythm or emotive content for retentive attention in other wise loss in the span of attention and greater involvement in the listening. The sloka or viruttams singing is truly beautiful balance of the vak and gana-the melody, with tilt on the raga experience, a reflextion of deep introspection, contemplation and meditation. Elevating and uplifting experience to the performer and the listener. Certainly heavy, in the sense it makes a demand on the intellect.
5. TMK is also weighed down by the gender stereo types in speculating and becoming judgmental on the control deterrence in the musical achievement of Great Maestros MSS and DKP, perhaps in sync with target audience. MSS, DKP and others while being guided and supported did immense sadhana for achieving excellence in the music to the best of their ability and manodharma.
Finally getting a peep in to the thinking maestro, I am keen to read his book and learn.
Yours truly
Sandhyavandanam Madhva Muni Rao
Bengaluru.
[email protected]

#170/C, 3rd E Cross Street, 2nd Block, 3rd Stage,
Basaveshwarnagar, Bengaluru-560079
Telephone:+91 9845336203. 91-080-23229151."

vichu1947 · Post by **vichu1947** » 16 Dec 2013, 13:59

Why is TMK always dying to get some attention by raking up something or the other ?? Why can't he just mind his business and do just the singing, which he is supposed to be good at ?? If he sings in a music season , it is a news, if he does not sing, that is also a news. If he sings mangalam first that is a news, and if he sings varnam first, that is also a news. Rasikas are giving too much importance to his eccentricities and gimmicks, keeping him in the limelight always. Just ignore him and he will become alright.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 16 Dec 2013, 14:42

vichu 1947 and forunites

Mr.TMK is a musician par excellence and also a thinker. He is partaking the pleasure of music and his own thoughts on the music with similar intentions. For his act of open communication of on his music and thinking on the music, with the value of offering rich content in music, uncompromisingly sticking to the theory and aesthetics, he should be correctly understood and extend support for his own realization of the ultimate reality in music. Many Great Maestros and Maestros in the not distant past, have done that with or without verbalizing or writing. Such Great Maestros and Maestros did encounter challenges but continued relentlessly to offer values as they conceptualized. Ariyakudi did encounter the challenge when he conceived, practiced the principles and ideals and has given the legacy of modern cutcheri CM. Rasikas continued the support for the values in their music. TMK's achievement of highest values in aesthetics is going to benefit himself and also the rasikas. We should take the effort of reading his book to understand the thinking content of his music, before coming to conclusions and diatribe. I have been closely watching and following TMK as an artist with high potential and demonstrated qualities in his music to achieve the success in cutcheri music, as teacher, scholar and thinker from his early forays as a performer in cutcheri music. Discuss and Debate but refrain from condemnation, TMK does not deserve.

munirao2001

sankark · Post by **sankark** » 16 Dec 2013, 15:03

I don't find any such assertion/statement "A dasi became Mira" in the interview @ http://www.thehindu.com/features/magazi ... 459781.ece.

Secondly, his point that music is very different from a performance/concert/kutcheri seems just a balanced point of view, so why such a ruckus?

We have an issue about what we consider music, and what we consider performance. The music — its form, history, integrity — is what I treasure. What we are stuck with is the kutcheri. As far as the kutcheri is concerned, I am willing to give it up. Because, after a point, I think the kutcheri has not looked at the music but got stuck in its own success story. And it is a success story. I will not deny that. But there is a problem

tiruppugazh · Post by **tiruppugazh** » 16 Dec 2013, 15:59

The music — its form, history, integrity — is what I treasure. What we are stuck with is the kutcheri.

If there is a difference then so what. I as a rasika enjoy it and appreciate musicians who sing kutcheries. If TMK does not want to sing kutcheries that is his call. I love kutcheries and I choose those that I like and refrain from those that I don't like. I am not 'stuck' with the kutchery.

KSJaishankar · Post by **KSJaishankar** » 16 Dec 2013, 16:09

The viewpoint that kutcheri music is not the be-all and end-all of carnatic music is a viewpoint that I have heard expressed in the past by the late Sri TRS also. In his lecdem on Pathantaram, he unambiguously says that kutcheri music is just "one more craft" - he does not even bestow the term "art" on it.

On the subject of TMK "always dying to get some attention" - what is wrong if he seeks that attention - IF indeed he is doing so? He is a man who has had the courage of conviction to put his money where his mouth is by foregoing any payment for concerts atleast during the season (and possibly in other places too, as was announced in Bangalore by the organizer during the Unnati Gokulashtami Utsavam series this year). He comes across as a person who feels obliged to challenge status quo, because only then will we see evolution.

This forum is full of people who keep complaining about the "fat ghost song" and the "dancing snake song" and the "duelling abhangists" et al. Here is a man who is challenging the need for that entire section! Sri Ariyakkudi probably felt, I believe sadly so, the need to dumb down his art to what he perceived was the level of us rasikas. That was probably the need of the hour then. Is it so wrong if we have someone come up and challenge the need for this today?

My sincere opinion - what we need is a decorous debate on the merits or demerits of the argument. If we have a right to our opinions and thanks to the internet a forum (or several) to express them in public (with the veil of anonymity to boot), he surely has the right to express his opinion too. Being dismissive of his opinion without a debate is bad enough, but being dismissive of his right to express his opinion is just not on.

PuduvaiSivam · Post by **PuduvaiSivam** » 16 Dec 2013, 20:13

sankark wrote:I don't find any such assertion/statement "A dasi became Mira" in the interview

Please see
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 454078.ece
No caste, no creed, no gender
Dec 13/2013
Contrasts in Shot-Silk
Subbulakshmi was born to a devadasi mother, Madurai Shanmukhavadivu (1889–1962), herself a vina artist. Subbulakshmi’s life changed with the move to Madras and her marriage to T. Sadasivam, a brahmin who was already married, a father of two daughters, freedom fighter and very well connected in political and business circles. In this new house, Subbulakshmi became ‘MS’, a divinity that lives until today. A dasi became Mira.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 16 Dec 2013, 20:27

This forum is full of people who keep complaining about the "fat ghost song" and the "dancing snake song" and the "duelling abhangists" et al.

I realize you have a bigger point to make, but just to be sure, on this specific matter it is one person. There are of course a few cheer leaders who partake in the humor without necessarily agreeing with such caricatures.

KSJaishankar · Post by **KSJaishankar** » 16 Dec 2013, 22:52

vasanthakokilam wrote: I realize you have a bigger point to make, but just to be sure, on this specific matter it is one person. There are of course a few cheer leaders who partake in the humor without necessarily agreeing with such caricatures.

Point taken - I must admit to being in the gang that does not particularly care for the so called tukkada section of the concert, and I don't equate that with the post pallavi or post speech section. There are parts of the post main section that I quite enjoy - slokam /viruttam, padam / javali (well, many if not all!), tiruppugazh / tiruppavai etc (even an MDR style loooong mangalam!). It is the ad nauseum repetitions of the "branded" tukkadas that I have a peeve against - and it is usually us rasikas who are to blame for this ad nauseum repetition.

At an RG concert in Bangalore earlier this year, towards the end they announced that they had been requested to sing an abhang, and asked for which one - an almost unanimous shout for "Bolava Vitthala" went up - poor G asked the audience if we would rather hear something new, which was summarily rejected by a voice vote!

Sometimes you get to hear about an artiste's opinion of the audience, and it is isn't pleasant - I've heard from a close friend who is related to Sri BMK that he apparently jokingly mentioned that he gauges the standard of an audience by how soon a chit for "oru naal poduma" comes to him at a concert - the earlier the chit, the lower his perceived standard and hence the mix offered that day. And this is a man who is a crowd puller, not someone branded as a person who sings for themselves, and the audience can take it or leave it!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 17 Dec 2013, 09:11

KSJaishankar wrote:
On the subject of TMK "always dying to get some attention" - what is wrong if he seeks that attention - IF indeed he is doing so?

Because it starts to look like that is the only purpose.

Just as an example, for a performer to say that he is giving up "kucheris", and then to claim that his performances are not "kucheris" seems like empty attention seeking noise.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 17 Dec 2013, 10:07

In response to the criticism about the format in which he sings (or rather lack of a format set by Ariyakkudi), he has reacted that he is not giving a concert. He has been consistent about it. He still provides music that takes some like me to dizzy heights, even when I feel left in the lurch when an alapana ends abruptly without a piece sung in that raga. He has taken several initiatives to foster CM. He went to Srilanka and connected with the yearnings of the CM followers there; in fact, he took other leading artists as well. He is trying to connect with the school children and trying to revive temples as medium to spread the music. I wonder who else has taken such varied initiatives. He claims he is trying to sing CM in the manner his creativity leads him. Much of the musical fraternity appear to be at home with him. One may criticise him, but to say that he does all this to ensure audience for his singing or draw attention is misplaced.

tiruppugazh · Post by **tiruppugazh** » 17 Dec 2013, 10:20

In response to the criticism about the format in which he sings (or rather lack of a format set by Ariyakkudi), he has reacted that he is not giving a concert. He has been consistent about it.

Some more things he is consistent about

1. Ending with a Mangalam. It never finds a place elsewhere.
2. Singing with a violin and mridangam. Never other instruments except on rare occasions.
3. Sitting in the middle and occupying centre stage.
4. Wearing a veshti and not pants or jeans.
5. Singing tukkadas only at the end. He may start with a javali but it is always a Kalyani javali and never a Kapi javali.
6. Singing the lighter ragams only at the end, never in the beginning.
7. Singing light pieces like Jagaddodharana etc he has not given them up.
8. Using only the syllables 'thanamtha dhahanam" etc when singing thanam. He has not introduced new syllables.
9. Singing Todi as per the old tradition. Not gutsy enough to add a foreign note in the name of innovation and questioning the existing structure. So he only questions the form, never the content.

My take is that he is just a traditional close minded conservative musician who is making a lot of noise about his so called innovations.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 17 Dec 2013, 10:38

Tiruppugazh,
Good one! I think he is far from going away from traditional Carnatic music menu... it is only a different(randomised?) order of serving the dishes.
But please don't give ideas...otherwise we will have Iron Maiden Tshirts and thongs on stage!!! With the mridangam vidwan having a Mitchell Johnson tattoo on his forearm.

sankark · Post by **sankark** » 17 Dec 2013, 11:15

Thanks for that link; went through http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 454078.ece

First things first - I am not able to make sense of the content in the first 5 paragraphs. The rest - he has his thoughts/opinions and he voiced them, whats the big deal?

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 17 Dec 2013, 11:28

10. Still wears the naamam?

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 17 Dec 2013, 11:43

On taking the critical and negative view on the performing artists taking recourse to actions 'to win the audience/rasikas' and ' attention' through non conforming thinking and communication, I wish to state that the performer has to be with the audience/rasikas in mind with his music and values as perceived by the performer. Aesthetics in the music is always subtle but, that is its beauty. When we hear even though we seem to have enjoyed by the feedback of appreciation conveyed by the body language, performer desires that the values of aesthetics in his music has to be appreciated better. To achieve this objective, performer takes to oral or written text means. Rasikas have been conditioned to either appreciate the conformance as service to the tradition or non conformance as uncommon creativity and exciting. Great Maestros and Maestros, immensely popular, benefiting idolatry, did deviate from the lakshana and were not free from gayaka doshas, particularly in the delivery and aesthetics. They did not deem it necessary to take corrective and preventive actions as their delivery became to be given the stamp of approval as 'style'. Performers have the compulsion of catching the imagination of the rasikas, demonstrated unique proposition qualities, high visibility and endorsement and riveting attention.
Some of the Great Maestros and Maestros, having enjoyed the success, getting fulfilled did introspect. Turning inward, performed with the values cherished unmindful of the stakes of popular perceptions and image for self satisfaction and self actualization, even risking the rejection and isolation. Majority of the Great Maestros and Maestros, uncompromising and idealist serving the cause of music, winning the appreciation of select few, not even taken cognizance of the quality in their music, contribution and existence, not getting any attention suffered ignominy. As immensely capable performers, their yearning to win the appreciation and recognition of the rasikas never got the support. Their keeping the low profile caused further damage or preventing the change in perception.
TMk is now in introspection, contemplation and meditation on the values created, by him as an immensely popular performer and by other popular performers. In search of the truth and rich values in classical music, wonderful and beautiful colors and shades in music-emotion/bhava and aesthetics/rasanubhava. There is urgency in him to reach out to the mass of his audience or rasikas communicating the change and urging them to think, realize and continue to extend the love and support. TMK is in inquiry, testing the thought, idea and desire in his performances and expressed musical values. In Self expansion to achieve Self delight. Extend the love and affection, patience and perseverance, awaiting the results of his creativity, as done to other Great Maestros and Maestros, putting up with their idiosyncrasies.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 17 Dec 2013, 11:44

Make classical music accessible to the masses: Amartya Sen..

Nobel laureate Amartya Sen releases Carnatic singer T.M. Krishna’s book “A Southern Music: The Karnatik Story” in Chennai on Monday. Gopalkrishna Gandhi, Chairman, Kalakshetra, is seen on the right. Photo: R. Ragu ..

Heaping wholesome praise on Carnatic vocalist T.M. Krishna’s book A Southern Music – The Karnatik Story, which he launched, Professor Sen said it was one of the best books he had read. “What you get from the book is the deeper sense of experience, a better understanding, context and, of course, a kind of commanding view of the history of the discipline,” he said. The book, he added, also dealt with contemporary event in music and its impact.

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... epage=true

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 17 Dec 2013, 12:03

tiruppugazh wrote: My take is that he is just a traditional close minded conservative musician who is making a lot of noise about his so called innovations.

I would elide the "close minded" adjective. My take is he is both traditional and conservative and will not experiment with most aspects of the music.
These "innovations" are IMHO a sublimation of the otherwise rather straight jacket approach to music.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 17 Dec 2013, 12:19

Honestly..it is we who are making all sorts of noises..at all times..

He makes his stand always loud and clear..
whether it is about key board for carnatic music
or singing a RTP with a varnam..
or announcing free concerts during peak season
or now with the present controversy..
He never turns back...

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 17 Dec 2013, 16:10

About the comment on innovation, he has made it clear he is not doing any innovation (a much maligned word for him) and he is not blazing a new trail.
It is to his credit he has made so much discussion come up!

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 17 Dec 2013, 20:06

Does anyone else here think that he is just plain bored?

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 17 Dec 2013, 20:24

That's a lateral thought!

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 17 Dec 2013, 20:48

One can see how many are bored..

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/590 ... lain-bored

According to wiki, the word lateral thought was coined in 1967 by Edward de Bono.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 18 Dec 2013, 00:36

mahavishnu wrote:Does anyone else here think that he is just plain bored?

What with? His lot in life? the kutcheri paddhati? music in general? us, the rasikas? Or all of the above?

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 18 Dec 2013, 10:26

Ravi, my sense is that it is all of the above.
This tends to happen to a lot of people whose artistic sensibilities seem to move on faster than those around them.

MaamiAtHeart · Post by **MaamiAtHeart** » 18 Dec 2013, 10:28

I don't see his changes as something done just for the sake of innovation or doing something different....his music is incredibly pure...I would say, the most classical of them all. I look at him as a true "traditionalist"! He does not need gimmicks; he could have taken the easy way out, performed the favorite crowd pleasers, kept everybody happy and ended up with an SK before 40. He chose not do so. He is on a journey. I would sit back and just enjoy the spectacular findings. My only gripe? There are too few commercially available recordings

especially of the "new" Krishna

KSJaishankar · Post by **KSJaishankar** » 18 Dec 2013, 14:11

MaamiAtHeart wrote:I don't see his changes as something done just for the sake of innovation or doing something different....his music is incredibly pure...I would say, the most classical of them all. I look at him as a true "traditionalist"! He does not need gimmicks; he could have taken the easy way out, performed the favorite crowd pleasers, kept everybody happy and ended up with an SK before 40. He chose not do so. He is on a journey. I would sit back and just enjoy the spectacular findings. My only gripe? There are too few commercially available recordings especially of the "new" Krishna

Bravo!! a post that I think best encapsulates TMK's music.

alpajnani · Post by **alpajnani** » 18 Dec 2013, 21:12

MaamiAtHeart wrote:I don't see his changes as something done just for the sake of innovation or doing something different....his music is incredibly pure...I would say, the most classical of them all. I look at him as a true "traditionalist"! He does not need gimmicks; he could have taken the easy way out, performed the favorite crowd pleasers, kept everybody happy and ended up with an SK before 40. He chose not do so. He is on a journey. I would sit back and just enjoy the spectacular findings. My only gripe? There are too few commercially available recordings especially of the "new" Krishna

My exact thoughts as well!!

PuduvaiSivam · Post by **PuduvaiSivam** » 23 Dec 2013, 11:12

rshankar wrote:Does anyone else here think that he is just plain bored?What with? His lot in life? the kutcheri paddhati? music in general? us, the rasikas? Or all of the above?

In Margazhi mahotsav telecast recently in Jaya TV answering a questiont TMK said emphatically he is not doing any Kutcheri.Answerring another question he said he would prefer the term structure rather than paani.Let the rasikas now discuss the difference bet
ween structure and Paani ,performance and kuchery. Let us fight over these

rajesh_rs · Post by **rajesh_rs** » 23 Dec 2013, 12:24

PuduvaiSivam wrote:I was shocked to read a reference to the birth of MS Subbulaksmi in the above.It is mischievous and shows the casteist mind set of TM Krishna who does not have the basic decenccy of not insulting the dead.The whole reference to that great carnatic musician is in the category of vanja pugazhchi ani(posturing as glorifying with concealed sarcasm)I vehemently condemn him for his nasty remarks

Far from mischevous and casteist, TMK has indicated that he is more open minded than many mainstream artists (and rasikas) are about MS' excellence in music. I sincerely think you may have misread the context and content of the piece.

PuduvaiSivam · Post by **PuduvaiSivam** » 24 Dec 2013, 05:40

rajesh_rs" wrote

Far from mischevous and casteist, TMK has indicated that he is more open minded than many mainstream artists (and rasikas) are about MS' excellence in music. I sincerely think you may have misread the context and content of the piece.

Great open mindedness to drag in the name of Sadasivam which is very relevant in the context!.Thank you for throwing light to me the ignorant one who does not read properly.Adieu to rasikas forum full of erudite rasikas where I am a misfit

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 24 Dec 2013, 10:51

Here is an open letter to Shri TM Krishna...

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... _type_map=[%22og.likes%22]&action_ref_map=[]

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Dec 2013, 11:11

Whenever the world sees some great book-burning fest, the books are always being denounced and burnt by people who have not even read them.

Surely the community here can do better than that?

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 24 Dec 2013, 11:29

Nick, you're right.
I have heard TMK speak out his mind a few times. I have absolutely NO doubt about his talent, sincerity of purpose and keenness to perform well. That some of us (including me) think he is somewhat misguided in his pronouncements about musical themes and contexts and the concert structure should not, in my opinion, make us create an atmosphere of censure and ridicule as this will only perhaps drive him to extreme positions. The loss would then be to the musical world.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 24 Dec 2013, 14:30

I think TMK is a person of intrinsic integrity and will not turn to being more maverick than his inner sense impels him. Our comments will not affect him. He does not care for this forum since he says many members are anonymous. But, the call to be fair and not super-critical is justified in keeping this forum sacrosanct. We are here for music and titbits that amuse, entertain or even educate.
He said in his Jaya TV Q&A that he is not recommending a change of structure and that he does not follow any structure. He said that the structure is affecting the content of music, but he did not explain how. He posed it to those who question to look into this. Honestly, I am not up to saying anything of value on this, but I feel that so many artists who follow the 'structure' offer enjoyable music (must be of classic stuff with creativity), or for that matter TMK's music itself was path-breaking when he was 'confined' in the structure' (I wonder whether his music after being free of the structure is more creative, it is no less classy anyway). Maybe, the rasikas of this forum may debate this point.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 24 Dec 2013, 15:18

When he says that he is willing to give up katcheri, or that he is not doing a katcheri
presumably, he informs that he is not willing to be bound by the katcheri padhadhi
and is free to act as he finds it fit and necessary..

Perhaps, his cutting short of a concert in the middle is part of the same thinking ...
A creative genius may always find it difficult to get himself bound by these padhadhi and consider them shackles
for their free thinking...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 24 Dec 2013, 22:04

venkatakailasam wrote:Here is an open letter to Shri TM Krishna...

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... _type_map=[%22og.likes%22]&action_ref_map=[]

That is a very balanced and well written open letter. The nuanced point the author is making is, it is not about Krishna convincing his critics but it is about his dearest fans. Don't ask them to make too big a leap, take them with you in your path.

The reality of the world is that those who do not like him or his music in first place will find every reason to magnify the negative and minimize the positive to strengthen their conviction. That is normal and one can not do much about that. On the other hand, his fans would do the opposite, magnify the positives and minimize the negatives. That is also normal. Given this state of affairs, TMK needs to follow his own inner convictions and artistic sensibilities while making it not too uncomfortable for his fans to do that.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 25 Dec 2013, 09:28

For any system that has evolved over a sufficiently long period of time, changes have to be acquired gradually. And each such change has to be given time to settle, to be amalgamated into the system.
Shocking the system is not a recipe for making any permanent change.

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 25 Dec 2013, 10:37

Sureshvv: I agree 100%.We need to give this "path-breaking" initiative a try. Audience tastes would evolve and at some point of time(this differs from individual to individual and fair-minded rasikas which I believe most of us are) this change would "stick" provided there are rasikas--the initial sceptics/naysayers(I do not mean this in any pejorative way) would learn to appreciate and then the change gets embedded in the rasikas environment.
Example: In the early fifties,BMK when he visited Bombay for the first time sang lot of his ragas(4 notes).I was fascinated by it and thought what an inovation--how with limited # of notes BMK was able to enthral the audiences(I forget the name of one of the 4 note rags--it had Sa Ri(Suddha) Ma(Suddha) Nee(kakalinishadam) Sa,in the ascent and Sa nee Ma Ri Sa in the descent likewise ragas like Sunadhavinodhini,hamsavinodhini(his kriti in this raga Guru Nim swaroopini) were really enchanting In fairness I must ack after several years after BMK intorduced Hamsavinodhini,LGJ has composed a Varnam. While admittedly there may have been some biases by Senior Musicians of the BMK generation who may have pooh=poohed the inovations and try to dampen the popularity Yet today how many artistes sing 4 note ragas in concerts> My view is that over 50 years,if this innovation has not caught Rasikas fancy,no matter how much intellectual rigor has gone into this innovation,this has not gained the currency that the innovator thought it would .My point is that let this trend"marinate" amongst Rasikas all over the World and let it develop its own traction. Not all of our caterwaulings aginst TMK's innovations nor his sycophants' stout defense of the innovation is going to and should not deter TMK from pursuing his dream.If ultimately he truly believes popular accepatnce/or praise or rejection is not going to help/hurt him(which I do not beleive he truly believes because rasikas' acceptance/appaluse is the elixir for any creative musician. Notwithstanding TMK;s denials,he would-- because he is a mortal-- be no less basking on listeners' approbation than any other artiste .

Another anecdote: SSI I believe(this was reported in one of SSI's interviews in the Hindu) asked GNB as to why GNB does not sing his own compositions--GNB is supposed to have replied in Tamil which crudely translated would be like" Let my sishyas and other school musicians sing tham--if the compositions have legs,they will be propagated and gain traction"--he tacitly acknowledged that no matter how inspired and how creative he may think his compositions are-- the rasikas are the ultimate arbiters and rasikas are by and large fair.

If there are sycophants of TMK who are willing to tolerate his path-breaking exercises because they can savor the few moments he is able to thrill them with his music,by all means give him the space.Posterity will judge. As some of us old timers would attest,when growing up we put up with a lot of antics by Mali Sir and TNR Sir--many afrustrating moments--but invariably the wait was worth it because they would trun an ordinary raga or krithi and embellish it with some hitherto unexplored forays that would mesmerize us and our patience and tolerance were amply vidicated and rewarded. The few concerts of TMK that I have attended so far where such "deviations" from tradition were exhibited -- despite my sincere attempts to be objective drawing from my own listening experiences --HAVE YET TO PRODUCE THE AHA AHA EFFECT THAT I EXPERIENCED WITH MALI,TNR,KITTAPPA(the three cornerstones of my listening foundation!!)).
I am waiting!!! As GNB used to say "Nan ennikkum Padara Madiri than innikku Padinen--Unnudaya gnanam improve ayirukku"I AM SINGING LIKE ALWAYS I DO PERHAPS YOUR GNANAM MAY HAVE IMPROVED!!

I acknowledge my gnanam has to improve to appreciate TMK.

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 25 Dec 2013, 22:45

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:-HAVE YET TO PRODUCE THE AHA AHA EFFECT THAT I EXPERIENCED WITH MALI,TNR,KITTAPPA(the three cornerstones of my listening foundation!!)).
I am waiting!!! .

I agree. None of the present day performing musicians are in that legendary bracket.
The response to this statement I have heard - please listen to MP3 recordings of Ramnad Krishnan, GNB, MDR, ...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 25 Dec 2013, 23:59

There are two major factors at play here, beyond the inherent musical abilities of musicians of these two generations.

You listened to seasoned veterans when you were young.
Listening to younger musicians when you are older is a different experience.