Pgt Ramprasad at Kapali Dec 24

[CommonMan]

Ideally should have had the accompanists name in the thread title - as they made the concert so grand....
MR Gopi, Tvm Balaji and Alathore Rajaganesh

Entered only during neraval of devea deva kalayami: was decent.....thoomani madathu to follow - ragam was very eloquent but short....return was equally good and crisp....no N or S but thani. The thani was very entertaining. This is the second time Im hearing the PRP and Tvm Balaji combo - and this to me ranks very special - amazing.. such good anticipation and group work..loved the kanjira sound of Rajaganesh....thani folloed by Vinathasuthavahana - have heard it only few times in the last few years - one of them being ARs'...that was more elaborate - this was a shortened version with sarvalagu swarams (no kanaku) in madhabedhamane...followed by laathangi ragam - I personally liked the violin return more as it had less frills ans brigas..but the thanam of PRP was amazing - very rythmic and assertive..pallavi line was the N line of venkataramana....again the team work was fantastic..ragamalika in Malayamarutham, forgot, suba panthuvarali (which I thought he played to the gallery) - was nice though, then behag - and I left with that...yet another neat and fulfilling concert...

[parivadini]

The concert can be viewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWPVRMtOevA

[pvs]

I entered at the same time too thought I heard Sahana in the ragamalika swaras. Hamir Kalyani was done very well as was the tiruppavai and I enjoyed the Vinatasuta vahana very much. One of my favourites from DKJ. Haven't heard anyone else sing it in recent times. A satisfying concert in true PRP style. I only wished there were a few more items crammed somehow into the 2 hours we had! Didn't expect the RTP in a short concert and was guessing between Marivere and Venkataramana until he started on the tanam.

[cacm]

I told DKJ after a superb Vinatsuta vahana that he & Rukmini brought MMI BACK TO LIFE & ON STAGE with his rendering of Vinata s :-BD . He refused to ACCEPT my complements & said try as he has been he has not been able to render it like MMI. Writing this to point out WHAT A GREAT GENTLEMAN HE WAS in addition to being HONEST which characterised this GREAT VIDWAN & EVEN BETTER A GREATER HUMAN BEING.......MISS HIM & HIS TYPES. VKV

[CommonMan]

Thanks VKV! Once in tiruchy (Late 70's), someone from the crowd requested for vinatha in a DKJ Veeraghavan PMI concert....DKJ frogot the second line of the anupallavi and PMI with his characteristic beat "sang" the line in mridangam nonchalantly. But after the anupallavi, DKJ said over the mike, "eppodhum pola anupallavi inniku mridangame padiduthu, aanaa indhe vaati sahityathoda".....magnanimity was indeed a hallmark of great artists....actually everytime I time hear "manujulane..." in the song I am reminded of this incident. Actually it could be a bias from my part, but when PRP sang that line I thought for a moment I was listening to DKJ! Thanks Parivardhini for making it available online!

[vs_manjunath]

MMI has sung a detailed raga Jayanthasena foll by vinatAsutha...MSG's return in raga as well as swarams makes it unique....

[cacm]

Thanks VKV! Once in tiruchy (Late 70's), someone from the crowd requested for vinatha in a DKJ Veeraghavan PMI concert....DKJ frogot the second line of the anupallavi and PMI with his characteristic beat "sang" the line in mridangam nonchalantly. But after the anupallavi, DKJ said over the mike, "eppodhum pola anupallavi inniku mridangame padiduthu, aanaa indhe vaati sahityathoda".....magnanimity was indeed a hallmark of great artists....actually everytime I time hear "manujulane..." in the song I am reminded of this incident. Actually it could be a bias from my part, but when PRP sang that line I thought for a moment I was listening to DKJ! Thanks Parivardhini for making it available online!

PRP DOES INVOKE GREAT MEMORIES! WISH HIS VALUE IS RECOGNISED WIDELY SO WE CAN HEAR THE GREAT MUSIC OF THE GOLDEN AGE AGAIN! VKV

DEAR CommonMan,
What a moving account of PMI "SINGING" the line! I have been privy to such moments but the way you have described it brought tears of JOY as well as NOSTALGIA of THOSE GLORIOUS MOMENTS WE were VERY FORTUNATE TO WITNESS! THE CASCADE OF PMI BURSTING OUT AFTER HIS SILENCES- LIKE THE NIAGARA FALLS; WHEN HE CAME TO USA HE COULD NOT SEE IT AS WE WANTED HIM TO SEE WHAT HIS CASCADES WERE LIKE BECAUSE HE WAS NOT FEELING WELL THAT DAY- INTRIGUED not only ORDINARY MORTALS LIKE US BUT EVEN THE IMMORTAL LGJ who told me he had wondered about it himself & had asked PMI about it. Apparently PMI in his CHARACTERISTIC WAY did not think it was anything extra-ordinary! If one is KALIYUGANANDHI I GUESS EVERYTHING IS CHILD'S PLAY!...
THANKS for letting my mind wander into those GLORIOUS DAYS, MOMENTS& EXPERIENCES WHICH CAN NEITHER BE ERASED OR REPLACED.....PLEASE WRITE ABOUT SUCH MOMENTS WHEN THE SPIRIT MOVES YOU. ...REGS, VKV

[cacm]

MMI has sung a detailed raga Jayanthasena foll by vinatAsutha...MSG's return in raga as well as swarams makes it unique....

I USED TO REQUEST IT OFTEN & BEING ONE WHO LITERALLY LIVED FOR HIS RASIKAS MMI ALWAYS READILY OBLIGED! WHAT A NOBLE SOUL! There is a radio concert with TNK-UKS where the Thambura went truant for almost five minutes but when the singing resumed MMI took the listeners LITERALLY TO HEAVEN with Vinata s!.....VKV

[vs_manjunath]

MMI never required a tambura he himself was a tambura! What a Shruthi Shuddam....how much he must practised to attain that level of perfection. Lord Shiva is praised as the body of nAdam..in nAda thanum by Saint Thyagaraja...similarly MMI can be described as tambura itself.

[cacm]

MMI never required a tambura he himself was a tambura! What a Shruthi Shuddam....how much he must practised to attain that level of perfection. Lord Shiva is praised as the body of nAdam..in nAda thanum by Saint Thyagaraja...similarly MMI can be described as tambura itself.

YES! HE has described in some detail in the DVD I produced for MMI'S CENTENARY HOW he went about it. SMART & VERY HARD WORK. MS WAS THE SAME! PLUS THEIR NATURAL TALENTS TO AUGUMENT THEIR EFFORTS!.......TRULY INSPIRATIONAL....VKV

[CommonMan]

Actually, I was reminded of another incident when I was entering during PRPs neraval in deva deva....1950 or 51, I had come over to devakottai (during my vacation) for a MMI - Rajamanickam pillai - PMI - Ramachandran...the previous nights concert was SSI's......since MMI fell sick, SSI was requested to perform again the next day...he started with deva deva kalayami....no exaggeration: at least 20 - 25 two or three avarthanam neravals; looked as if SSI was desperate to make Pillaivaal exhausted, but unsuccessful, I remember. Same thing happened with one/two avarthanam swarams - about 40 or 50 of them without repetition. At one point, one of the strings of pillaival got off the hook, and with his usual smile, remarked "swamiku ippo thripthi dhaane?" SSI said something, which I don't remember, and there was a pause (not uncomfrotable, though - all only in a friendly manner, as far as I remember). Then as a full stop to the drama, PMI said laughingly "seri modhella idhe mudichudalaam", and wrapped up the song.
Since VKV you mentioned, on many instances PRPs singing has reminded me of old masters....especially the songs he chooses, and his neraval swarams...I understand that his father is his guru, and he has definitely done a great job......My only prayers are that he does not change his old-school style of singing. It is like watching single handed backhand in tennis. Heard from many that he has stuck to tradition for years together now, and that is very comforting to learn. Hope he continues and grows.....

[vs_manjunath]

Thanks for sharing.
Very Interesting to read these real kutcheri anecdotes.
Please keep writing.

[cacm]

Dear CommonMan, HE is already "grown" & his style I think he will not change or give up. It is UPTO the PUBLIC (that is US) & THE SABHA SECREATRIES TO DO THE REST & MAKE SURE TRADITION WITH CREATIVITY IS RECOGNISED PROPERLY. VKV

[CommonMan]

Dear CommonMan, HE is already "grown" & his style I think he will not change or give up. It is UPTO the PUBLIC (that is US) & THE SABHA SECREATRIES TO DO THE REST & MAKE SURE TRADITION WITH CREATIVITY IS RECOGNISED PROPERLY. VKV

Hopefully...yes I agree - and Sabha secs face several constraints like yielding to sponsorship commitments, and the unfortunate truth is they might not even have the time to spare a thought of promoting traditional music amidst many flockers....I also heard tht PRP sticks to many principles even off stage - and this combination is scary, imho!

[cacm]

HE BELONGS in the TRADITION OF ARI--PMI etc which was & is known to STAND UP FOR THEIR BELIEFS. MAY NOT BE GOOD WHEN YOU ARE AT THE BEGINNING OF YOUR CAREER ETC....VKV

[shripathi_g]

I have a question regarding Vinatha Suta. When I look at the lyrics, it goes like this "vinatA suta vAhana shrI ramaNa manasAraga sEvinceda rAma". Most of the renditions go like this "vinatA sutavA hanashri ramaNa manasA ragaSe vinceda rAma". Just curious as to why it's sung that way.

[CommonMan]

I have a question regarding Vinatha Suta. When I look at the lyrics, it goes like this "vinatA suta vAhana shrI ramaNa manasAraga sEvinceda rAma". Most of the renditions go like this "vinatA sutavA hanashri ramaNa manasA ragaSe vinceda rAma". Just curious as to why it's sung that way.

Your observation is bang on......I usually try to compromise for the fact that the "hana sri.." strats after the 1st half while "va " comes much before...so imho its a structural issue than the singers' cinluding those of MMI or DKJ

[cacm]

I DO KNOW that both MMI & DKJ were VERY PARTICULAR about the LYRICS& THEIR ORIGIN. They never sang anything in PUBLIC without the blessings of either their Gurus or language experts. I wish some EXPERTS in LANGUAGE weigh in. LGJ used to POINT OUT such problems with MANY VOCALISTS IN PRIVATE. It is ONE OF THE REASONS HIS CAREER SHOULD BE SEPARATELY EVALUATED AS SOLO ARTIST AS WELL AS AN ACCOMPANIST. VKV

[shripathi_g]

I found this recording of BMK which seems closer to the way the lyrics are structured http://bit.ly/1aj8PYd (this is from Sangeethapriya. Not sure how to link it directly). As much as I love this krithi, I really find it difficult to listen to it because of the way it's split.

[cacm]

I AM NOT SURPRISED AS BMK'S MOTHER TONGUE IS TELUGU. IT IS A COMMON PROBLEM between Tamilians& those whose mother tongue is Telugu etc. I have tracked down SIMILAR examples tediously & found THERE ARE LEGITIMATE REASONS for different versions. I will ask my wife who is a TELUGU EXPERT & REPORT BACK. To me this is only ONE of MANY DIMENSIONS & which caused MMI to STEADFASTLY STATE that even though he has rendered VATAPHI thousands of times he has NEVER rendered it PERFECTLY! VKV

[Enna_Solven]

Your observation is bang on......I usually try to compromise for the fact that the "hana sri.." strats after the 1st half while "va " comes much before...so imho its a structural issue than the singers' cinluding those of MMI or DKJ

This separation stood out so much in Sri Ramaprasad's singing that I went back and listened to DKP and DKJ's versions. They too start out with the separation for the first two sangatis but they also sing vAhanA together later. TVS also sings like that. DKJ's Ernakulam Rasikapriya 1983 concert from Sangeethapriya is very beautiful. His and his guru's enunciation of the words are crystal clear.

[vs_manjunath]

shripathi_g: This is basically vocalists' splitting problem for the purpose of Thalam and Breathing purposes only..........BMK would have renedered it correctly taking the sahithyam into picture w/o compromising it.

For Exx. in nAda thanum anisham.....u can see most of the singers split nigamOttama sAma vEda saaram vaaram vaaram.........as nigamOTama sAma| vEda saaram is sung after splitting....actually it should be sung together...as sAma vEda saaram vAram vAram..........if the vocalists observe these Sahithyam points....they can sing with perfect meaning.................MBK and MDR have sung this song correctly as sAma veda sAram... only

[cacm]

I have a question regarding Vinatha Suta. When I look at the lyrics, it goes like this "vinatA suta vAhana shrI ramaNa manasAraga sEvinceda rAma". Most of the renditions go like this "vinatA sutavA hanashri ramaNa manasA ragaSe vinceda rAma". Just curious as to why it's sung that way.

I AM LISTENING TO A MMI RENDITION OF VINATA SUTHAVAHANA (1963 SANGEETHA NATAKA ACADEMY CONCERT WITH MSG & VR)& I FIND THAT MMI SINGS GANASRI ACTUALLY. HE ALSO STARTS IN THE SONG AT GANA FOR STARTING AFTER A BREAK. VKV

[shripathi_g]

vs_manjunath: Thank you. I've observed this with other songs as well. I think Abhishek renders Nada tanumanisham correctly too. I haven't heard MDR's rendition. Is it available online?

[vasanthakokilam]

We discussed the nadathanum anisam issue in a thread dedicated to sahitya lapses
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... um#p239365

As we learned there, BMK's split is the right way. But because of the change in split, the song sounds different.
here is his version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BZPpe90u8U
Later, I heard him sing that song live the same way. ( I did raise my CM stature with my neighbor when I correctly predicted that BMK's version will be different )

Here is Vedavalli's version. This is closer to the usual way but in a manner that the splits are correct.
https://soundcloud.com/dabbler126/pramanam-1-06-nada

[T.V.GOPALAKRISHNAN]

Sorry for my late posting. The full concert is available in my folder at www.sangeethapriya.org vide Album ID:01-C3191.

Regards,

TVG.

[cacm]

[quote="cacm"][quote="shripathi_g"]I have a question regarding Vinatha Suta. When I look at the lyrics, it goes like this "vinatA suta vAhana shrI ramaNa manasAraga sEvinceda rAma". Most of the renditions go like this "vinatA sutavA hanashri ramaNa manasA ragaSe vinceda rAma". Just curious as to why it's sung that way.

I AM LISTENING TO A MMI RENDITION OF VINATA SUTHAVAHANA (1963 SANGEETHA NATAKA ACADEMY CONCERT WITH MSG & VR)& I FIND THAT MMI SINGS GANASRI ACTUALLY. HE ALSO STARTS IN THE SONG AT GANA FOR STARTING AFTER A BREAK. VKV

CONTINUATION

DEAR shripathi_g,
I AM JUST NOW LISTENING TO BMK ON INTERNET WHERE HE IS SINGING VINATA SUTHAVAHANA: I FIND HE IS MIXING UP GANASRI & HANASRI IN LIBERAL DOSES WHICH COMES AS A SURPRISE TO ME. I NOW HAVE TO CONCLUDE THAT DKP & LGJ ARE THE ONLY TWO WHO APPEAR TO STICK TO THE TEXT OF THE COMPOSITION. VKV [-x :-@ ) #-o :-ss

[vichu1947]

I AM LISTENING TO A MMI RENDITION OF VINATA SUTHAVAHANA (1963 SANGEETHA NATAKA ACADEMY CONCERT WITH MSG & VR)& I FIND THAT MMI SINGS GANASRI ACTUALLY. HE ALSO STARTS IN THE SONG AT GANA FOR STARTING AFTER A BREAK. VKV

With due respect to MMI's mesmerizing music that I adore, he was one who treated lyrics with disdain. For instance, his pronounced split of "matavaaraNa mukanE " in "tatvamariya taramA " as "matavaa raNamukanE " changes the meaning drastically and showers insult in Lord Ganesha.

BTW, do not say in this forum that you listened to any particular recording . Self appointed copyright inspectors in this forum may question you like "where did you get the recording from ? Who holds the copyright ?? Was it recorded with permissions from MMI, MSG & VR ??" etc etc [-x

[shripathi_g]

vichu1947, I would not blame MMI. Most musicians in those days seem to have been taught like that. Singling out MMI is not fair. E.g. Alathur Brothers sing sarasIruh(A)nana rAma
samayamu brOva cid-ghana as 'sarasIruha nanara' for the first few sangathis and then 'sarasIruha nana ramayya' followed by 'samayamubro vacid-ghana'. Likewise, "eTula brOtuvO teliya" becomes 'eTulabrO tuvo teliya'. Well, I guess Thyagaraja was so close to Rama that he could get away with addressing Rama as bro.

[rshankar]

Well, I guess Thyagaraja was so close to Rama that he could get away with addressing Rama as bro.

ROFL...priceless!