ISRO chairman performing carnatic music concert

[KNV1955]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-B5YXKSfwM.

K Radhakrishnan Chairman ISRO has learnt CM & has even given short concerts.

Also Swami Paramarthananda learnt Mridangam from Palghat Raghu. V Subramaniam mama told me that he is concert standard performer.

Worth calling such people to inaugurate Music festivals

[cacm]

I think inviting persons from expertise in other fields with half baked knowledge is the BANE of our concert stages. Persons occupying & making irrelevant speeches wasting time & robbing paying patrons of listening to music is tantamount to crime. It is in the same category of the Hindu Critics. I have learnt from VERY famous & leading Vidwans BUT do not even mention it out of RESPECT & REVERENCE FOR THOSE GREAT PERSONAGES. EXPERTISE & VIDWAT ARE NOT TRANSFERABLE. VKV

[munirao2001]

Shri K.Radhakrishnan is a desciple of Shri R.K.Sreekantan and a rasika.

munirao2001

[Nick H]

I agree entirely about the speeches, although it seems we should not begrudge 15-30mins of the first evening of a festival to such things.

So far as being on stage as a musician is concerned, let the "VIP" factor be forgotten, and let the music decide. If they are genuine, they would probably not want it any other way themselves.

[cacm]

Shri K.Radhakrishnan is a desciple of Shri R.K.Sreekantan and a rasika.

munirao2001

MY POINT HAS NOTHING TO WITH INDIVIDUALS. I am complaining about the practice which I still contend is BAD. VKV ...Being a disciple or claiming to be one does not amount to much.....

[eesha]

I think inviting persons from expertise in other fields with half baked knowledge is the BANE of our concert stages.

Not always. People with a different background with "half baked" knowledge may not bring technical perspectives of music in their speech. But they can bring very interesting external perspectives. As people who are "outsiders", they can bring a fresh perspective that "insiders" will not be in a position to do that. "Full baked" knowledgeable people are more suited to give technical lec dems and lectures.

During Y2K days, factory approach was brought in to remediate programs that might have been affected by Y2K problem. The "factory approach" is from manufacturing industry adopted into IT for this purpose. The same was used again during Euro conversion problem. "LEAN" approach of manufacturing industry is extensively used in IT industry. These are cross pollination of ideas.

Music may not be rocket science, but a rocket scientist may still see something different in music that a musican may not be able to see. For example, as space engineer for a few years , if I have to look at carnatic music , I may be able to bring these analogies:

1) Similar to 3 axis Roll, pitch and yaw stabilizations needed for a spacecraft, a musican needs 3 axis stabilization in sruti, layam and bhavam (that comes from understanding of meaning of kritis). Otherwise, both the spacecraft and the musician will fall down !

2) From quality perspective, for space crafts, quality assurance is more critical than quality control, as it is not possible to fix a problem after it is launched. So the design for space craft should have quality built in with a goal of zero defects post launch through rigor and process adherence. And a musican who wants to excel should aim for zero defects on the stage. And this can be acheived only through rigor and process (tools, techniques and structured effort)

Those who are invited to speak during inauguration of functions are not expected to talk anything in depth. Instead they are expected to talk broadly with relevance to music and more importantly, the talk should be arresting and interesting. Once we (Gaanapriya Foundation) asked Sri G.Srinivasan , the then CMD of United India Insurance (currently CMD of New India Assurance) to make a chief guest speech for Rasikapriya Award function. And Sri G.Srinivasan is just a rasika, so he will qualify for the title "half baked" but his speech was so capturing . That is what is expected in that role.

[rshankar]

MY POINT HAS NOTHING TO WITH INDIVIDUALS. I am complaining about the practice which I still contend is BAD. VKV ...Being a disciple or claiming to be one does not amount to much.....

Worth calling such people to inaugurate Music festivals

If I may, I want to put Sri KNV's suggestion in context. As long as the practice of inviting people to preside and talk at CM concerts and events continues (BAD as it may be), I think Sri KNV's contention is that if it has to someone, then why not someone who is as well versed in CM as the Chairman of ISRO, Dr. Radhakrishnan is, rather than a CM-ignoramus who just happens to be in a coveted position of power. And I certainly agree with that. In my experience here in NJ, Dr. Swaminathan has been one of the best 'speakers' at events (see my review of Smt. Rama Vaidyanathan's performance)

[cacm]

I agree if the person has some knowledge of the subject his stature in his own field can possibly help. But my experience consists of several attempts where persons like one well known expert from World Bank who was asked to speak who told me before a concert in Washington D.C. who confided to me he got HEAD ACHES if he listened to Carnatic Music. I have also had several WELL KNOWN well to do persons who would not even but their own tickets but just blurt out non-sense. In one instance the person asked T.K.Murthy ( making by a a fool of himself) by asking him if he knew how to play in Thanjavur Style. TKM was so enraged he forced me to speak about Thanjavur Vaidyanatha Iyer & how PMI& TKM were the two doyens of that style etc delaying the concert by fifteen minutes more!.....I can go on & on but I contend the waste of time with speeches should be MINIMAL & even if the speaker is GREAT OR IGNORANT THE PURPOSE is to listen to the concert & not have vicarious fun wasting every one's time & spoiling the mood.....Of course there are great speakers who are not necessarily even conversant with the subject matter with Political figures the usual persons in this category. I remember Sushma Jaitley making a fool of herself at Thiruvaiyaru & got the assignment because she was Minister at that time......VKV :-BD :-ss

[Nick H]

Zero speeches is best.

Unless the evening is primarily a function and the musical part is secondary, lets have zero tolerance for speeches! No VIPs, no Moderately Important Persons, no Un Important persons.

That's more or less what we almost all end up agreeing whenever this issue gets raised.

[cacm]

AMEN! I don't mean to sound like a Christian either. No religious implication but a colloquial expression. VKV

[vasanthakokilam]

VKV, I think we all agree with your point, but the speech part is a tangential one in this thread and also, as rshankar said, it was more along the lines of 'Don't invite some ignoramous, invite such people' if at all you have to invite someone. Most of us here agree that they should not feel a need to invite anyone.

On the speeches themselves, even when it is not boring, what it does for me is it takes the focus away from the artists. Of course, the speaker having been invited has no option except to speak so let us blame the organizers.

I do not like the North American practice for CM either. At the beginning, they read the bio data of the artists and at the end there is a wrap up speech plus vote of thanks. On the intro, I see the need but it should be brief.
The ending speeches are worse. It is either an obligatory vote of thanks or it is a wrap up by a CM knowledgeable organizer who provides an improptu review ( mostly a face palm situation ).

If people think that starting and ending the concert without such a bookend feels incomplete, I would rather have the artists say a word or two before and after the concert. If they so choose to do so and if they have anything meaningful to say.

[Nick H]

I hate this "reading out of bio" especially when they are, and it happens, reading out pieces of paper that have been given to the audience anyway! Grrr!

There are people who can can do a brief wrap-up speech, taking just a few minutes, effectively. They are probably people that love music more than they love the sound of their own voices, so they stick to the essentials and get it over with --- but they convey their own enthusiasm and knowledge too. Yes, I'd personally choose the zero option, but there are one or two that don't send me scampering for the door, even though I may not even understand what they are saying!

[mahavishnu]

I do not like the North American practice for CM either. At the beginning, they read the bio data of the artists and at the end there is a wrap up speech plus vote of thanks. On the intro, I see the need but it should be brief.
The ending speeches are worse. It is either an obligatory vote of thanks or it is a wrap up by a CM knowledgeable organizer who provides an improptu review ( mostly a face palm situation ).

Yes, major face palm situation. On so many of these occasions, I have felt so embarassed for the artistes, others in the audience, myself and the speaker too. I really don't see a reason for this archaic practice.

[KSJaishankar]

Here is the post concert speech from a Nedunuri Krishnamurthygaru concert, apparently sometime in the mid-70s, and what looks like a house concert. It is ~20 minutes long, but I wouldn't mind a speech in a concert if it was of this standard!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/yfx86h

I' not sure who the speaker is, but when I checked with a few people a few years back, I was informed it is the late Sri SYK.

[KNV1955]

Whether we like it or not MA will have inaugural function & sadas in their Annual Conference. Instead of asking Narayanmurthy or Shiv Nadar or Ramadurai to talk they can consider people like Radhakrishnan who has some "Vasanai" ( smelled) of CM. The intellectuals in this group are eminently qualified. (pardon me if I have omitted some important names) particularly VKV Sir & Cleveland Sundaram for the service they have rendered to CM in USA. They don't have to google to prepare their speech. They can speak good English & Tamil. They are elderly & have heard CM for over 60 years. Arasi is a composer though not that well known. But why not? Infact Dr Brown should have figured in MA the year my father or T Viswanathan was given SK. He was responsible for taking CM to US.He knows about all kinds of Music not just CM. When my father was offered the teaching assignment in Weslyn University he told him that he can't speak one word in English. Dr Brown said forget about speaking you just sing & I will take care of the rest. If you listen to his demonstartion of Keeravani Kaligiyunte with my father singing neraval & swaram you will endorse what I say.What about Paramathananda or Ganapathi Sachithanada Swamigal. Paramarthananda speaks excellent English (MSC Chemistry, worked in Nocil for some years before becoming a Sanyasi) & Malayala Tamil. Knows everything in layam. Scholar in Sanskrit. What more you want. Shiv Nadar can speak on ceating wealth; how to build an organisation but not on CM. So is the case with Narayanamurthy or Ramadurai

[vs_manjunath]

eesha- Your analogy with 3 axis stabilization so on so forth is quite educative. To be a good and captivating speaker is more important than to be a VIP. An experienced rasika or a musicologist with these qualities may be an ideal choice.

[hnbhagavan]

Dear Friends,

The persons invited to inagurate the music season can be eminent persons in any field.Infosys , TCS etc have contributed sponsorship for carrying on the music programs.Most of the concerts are thriving because of sponsorship by industries and buisness houses.In a way the forum is almost conveying that if one does not have any knowledge in music,he is not welcome to concerts.
Some organisations in Bangalore are funding the Ramanavami programs,Bangalore Gayana Samaja music conference series.A normal rasika will think twice before buying a ticket to attend the concerts.I know fully well that the ticket proceeds are not enough even to buy garlands needed to honor the artists.

[KNV1955]

To be a good and captivating speaker is more important than to be a VIP That is the point Manjunath. CEO's can perform the cosmetics like giving the title etc. But speaker must be a qualified person. He can be an experienced rasika; musicians like Semmangudi, Lagudi, Viswa alll excellent speakers; crtic;editor; spiritual leader or people like Dr Robert Brown who knew about all forms of world music. From other streams like Pandit Ravishankar who has moved with C. musicians.Sruti Pattabhiraman would have done full justice on such occasions. Why even Subbudu would have done a great job. He was knowledgeable. MA should institutionalise inaugural speech by calling quality speakers. Then these functions will be worth attending.

[cacm]

Whether we like it or not MA will have inaugural function & sadas in their Annual Conference. Instead of asking Narayanmurthy or Shiv Nadar or Ramadurai to talk they can consider people like Radhakrishnan who has some "Vasanai" ( smelled) of CM. The intellectuals in this group are eminently qualified. (pardon me if I have omitted some important names) particularly VKV Sir & Cleveland Sundaram for the service they have rendered to CM in USA. They don't have to google to prepare their speech. They can speak good English & Tamil. They are elderly & have heard CM for over 60 years. Arasi is a composer though not that well known. But why not? Infact Dr Brown should have figured in MA the year my father or T Viswanathan was given SK. He was responsible for taking CM to US.He knows about all kinds of Music not just CM. When my father was offered the teaching assignment in Weslyn University he told him that he can't speak one word in English. Dr Brown said forget about speaking you just sing & I will take care of the rest. If you listen to his demonstartion of Keeravani Kaligiyunte with my father singing neraval & swaram you will endorse what I say.What about Paramathananda or Ganapathi Sachithanada Swamigal. Paramarthananda speaks excellent English (MSC Chemistry, worked in Nocil for some years before becoming a Sanyasi) & Malayala Tamil. Knows everything in layam. Scholar in Sanskrit. What more you want. Shiv Nadar can speak on ceating wealth; how to build an organisation but not on CM. So is the case with Narayanamurthy or Ramadurai

KNV,
YOU HAVE POINTED OUT CORRECTLY THE MAJOR IMPACT OF YOUR FATHER & PALGHAT RAGHU SUPPLEMENTED BY VISWA that in MY OPINION(in addition to the M.S.'66 TOUR WITH U.N. CONCERT AS THE EVEREST) has resulted in today's torrential OURPOURING of Carnatic Music WORLD WIDE. in the later half of 20th century.BOB BROWN IS TRULY THE FATHER OF CARNATIC MUSIC Carnatic music outpouring in N.A. & ACTUALLY REST OF THE WORLD OUTSIDE INDIA.
IN MY OPINION THE M.A. SHD. REMOVE A FEW PARKING SPACES FROM THEIR PARKING LOT & INSTALL STATUES OF BOB BROWN & M.S. so the current& future generations will know the origin of why our music got to where it has through out the world. KVN'S CONTRIBUTIONS ARE UNMATCHED NOT JUST MUSICALLY! VKV

[KNV1955]

VKV Sir I am very happy with all that you have said. Even in this group not many would know about Bob brown contribution to CM. Thanks.

[hnbhagavan]

Dear Sri KNV55,CACM and friends,

As the industry support is vital to the continue the music at various Sabhas,Any eminent person belonging to other fields can be called upon to inagurate the activities.In addition,a senior musician should preside over so that a good speech concerning music can be heard in the function.

[ramamantra]

Agree with cacm on other professionals making unnecessary albeit serious attempts to jump into the cm foray. Their bombastic backgrounds and 'pursuit of music despite varied professions/time crunch' sorta attitudes stink. These so-called 'aathula oru kaal, sethhula oru kaal' people need to be in the outliers. Lets leave cm to the musicians.

[hnbhagavan]

It does not look as though such a lengthy discussion is warranted.

Whenever funds are required for organising the cultural programs,it is organisations such as INFOSYS,TCS,Financial Institutions and many small industries which come to the rescue.Some how this point is completing escaping attention from our learned community.They are not harming the cause of music ,but infact helping to preserve our music.I do not understand why the hue and cry if people heading such organisations are called for functions.
It is necessary to limit the speeches,but this is for the individual on the day.

Several concerts are held at INFOSYS HALL in Chennai.

[Nick H]

Whenever funds are required for organising the cultural programs,it is organisations such as INFOSYS,TCS,Financial Institutions and many small industries which come to the rescue.Some how this point is completing escaping attention from our learned community. ...

It is not escaping attention at all, and I do recall this point being discussed last time we visited this topic of speeches.

Where sponsors of a concert are expecting to be put in front of a mic, then I agree: better to have the sponsorship, and it is worth the price. It is just like the banners. We may not like them, especially on the stage, but, in the end, I think we prefer them to actually paying for tickets!

[hnbhagavan]

Dear Nick,

That is exactly the point.As a matter of courtesy,a leading sponsor,s representative might be invited for the function.Funding concerts by tickets alone is definitely not possible.
I know how the funds get finalised in the last minute as it needs lot of tact and diplomacy to get any body to sponsor.It is our good fortune that we have several rasikas who are in the industry.I acknowledge that they are not authorities on the subject.

[Nick H]

But, if you substitute "concert" for "function" then nobody gets to speak ...and front-row tickets can be given out to the sponsors, with a row for their guests.

But I do agree with you that the funding is the priority.

[hnbhagavan]

dear Nick,

Thanks for response.There are many ways to look at the situations.

[Nick H]

Indeed there are, yes, and my posts seek a speech-free ideal. I know that it is not going to happen, and I have to live with what does happen. In real life, I find that many concerts are speech free, that anyway, a few minutes round up from a truly sincere organiser is no great trial, and that the greatest amounts of speechifying does take place at events labelled "functions," rather than "concerts."

I am, after all, a very happy beneficiary of Chennai's mostly-free CM concert scene

[makham]

A fortnight long music series is different from a solitary one-off monthly concert. Hence it is called a "festival" and needs a celebratory component. We should not mind a One hour celebration that precedes 200 hours of ensuing concert.

One can always bring in a holistic intervention by satisfying the needs of all stakeholders while respecting individual constraints too. The problem with us is that we want to brand all shades of grey as either black or white.

Yes, sponsors have become inevitable and they have to be taken care of, made to feel important. Call him/her/them "Chief Guest(s)" and let them perform ornamental tasks of felicitating the organization / awardees, lighting the lamp, releasing the souvenir / any book and so on.

Yes, on such an occasion we expect to hear some scholarly stuff, something new for us to learn about some aspect of music from a full-baked person. Call the agenda item as "Keynote Address" and the person as "Keynote speaker".

A typical program would look like:

Welcome Sabha President: 5 mts
Inauguration formalities Chief Guest: 10 mts
Keynote address: 35 mts
Vote of Thanks: 5 mts
Stage to be cleared for concert to begin: 5 mts

[hnbhagavan]

The above agenda is good for the sabhas to adopt.This can be followed in major festivals where a distinguished guest who is not from music area is invited to inagurate.The idea of key note address by a scholar/musician is a good one.

[Nick H]

One Whole Hour?

Totally unnecessary, unless there is, for instance some memorial function or celebration of an artist's life, or some awards to be given. See, for instance the MSS remembrance function of this last years, organised by cienu: the speeches were appropriate, and they were given by knowledgeable people. Even then they over-ran, and the concert had to be curtailed, but the point is that there was not one speech that we thought we would have been better off without.

As a general rule, though, I would suggest limiting all speeches, outside of specialist presentations in functions of an educational nature to five minutes. It is enough for most people. What on earth is to be said in a thirty-five minute "keynote" address?

Why would we need a keynote address anyway? We all know what is going to happen in a two week music festival: there is going to be concerts! No keynote address needed!

It's true that there is a sector of the population that enjoys this stuff. I know that, because I see them getting up and leaving after the speeches. Why should we cater to people who are not even staying for the music?

[arasi]

Nick,
Let's gather some facts about these people who leave after the speech, not staying for the concert or, soon after the first two songs.

Meanwhile, I imagine the following.

1. The VIPs who were on stage are now sitting in the front row and have to be somewhere else for another function.

2. Those who came with them.

3. Those un-rasikAs who don't make music part of their life, but are related in different ways to the organizer (some friends too).

4.Others who strictly have two hours at their disposal (but one hour was wasted in listening to speeches, one for the commute, so, let me get up and go!). Many among them go back very disappointed, not hearing even a note of music.

5:Others walk in for a bit of air conditioned comfort. Don't expect them in halls where arctic weather-inspired air conditioners are sweating away

Seriously, I like a worthy key note speaker idea, but twenty minutes is enough (think of the lecdem sessions where mega musical minds gather, speak, raise questions--all in an hour! There, we need a bit more time, I feel).

By all means, recognize sponsors (any number) by asking them to light the lamp (a minute each?). Wrap them with shawls, if you wish. Ask them to cut a ribbon to open a new hall. Ask them to hand over the awards.

And, if you invite scholars and musicians to speak, please specify (and keep to the allotted amount of time) as stated in the program. A VKV model time keeper is ideal! Some may attend both, others just one or the other (depending on how keen they are on the speakers and performers).

[sukumar]

VKV Sir I am very happy with all that you have said. Even in this group not many would know about Bob brown contribution to CM. Thanks.

still i need to know many things...
an article on Sri Bob Brown

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Brown

[cacm]

BOB BROWN:
THE WIKIPEDIA REFERENCE IS HIGHLY INADEQUATE. When I return home from my travel I will SPECIFICALLY WRITE about his POINEERING EFFORTS REG. CARNATIC MUSIC. OTHERS CAN SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES WITH BOB BROWN TOO. VKV :-@

[KNV1955]

BOB BROWN:
THE WIKIPEDIA REFERENCE IS HIGHLY INADEQUATE. When I return home from my travel I will SPECIFICALLY WRITE about his OINEERING EFFORTS REG. CARNATIC MUSIC. OTHERS CAN SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES WITH BOB BROWN TOO. VKV

VKV Sir you are right person to write about Bob Brown. Pl improve the wikipedia article so that it is available for anyone to lay their hands 100 years from now.

Sukumar Thank you. I tried somehow didn't find. Failed in googling

KNV

[hnbhagavan]

Dear Nick,

One whole hour for a music festival lasting for 15 days is not too much.Whatever is suggested is generally a guideline and experience shows that such a function at least lasts for an hour.
In Music Academy,the inaguration takes place in the morning and the concerts start later.In case it is combined with concerts in the evening,then the function should be scheduled earlier
say at 5:00 pm with concert to start at 06:00 pm.
Generally the problem is that the functions start later than scheduled which has cascading effect on time management and some rasikas have to leave early due to logistic problems.

[Nick H]

Yes, if scheduled as you suggest, it is not so much of a problem.

It also means that only interested people will be, instead of people impatient to get on with the music.

Nobody willingly listens to a half hour speech unless they actually want to hear that person speak.

[Nick H]

By all means, tell us about your research/paper, but please do not SPAM us. Are you not aware of internet etiquette?