Any Specific Raga to reduce Hypertension

[cameo]

Is there a Raga which is proven to have an impact in reducing blood pressure?
Any thoughts?

Any other discussion related to other ragas and its significance in curing any illness can also be discussed here.

[sukumar]

nilambari or kamas played by Sri. T. R. Mahalingam :-BD

[vs_manjunath]

Acc to Sri Ganapathi Satchidananda Swamiji of Mysore, Raga Keeravani has very curative effects.
Also Anandha Bhairavi has healing effects.

[munirao2001]

cameo
No scientific study has been done based on the Indian Classical Music. The secondary ideals of ICM are 1. Chitta Sudhi; 2.Manas Sudhi; 3. Karna Sudhi; 4.Deha Sudhi. It is mythical and based on the idealism and divine spirit. Identity of a raga with a particular therapeutic value is creation of a belief by authority and its acceptance by the followers, without inquiry and realization of the fact(s)-not the truth.
Harvard Medical School's Journal has published the report and you can access in the link:http://www2.massgeneral.org/bmg/harvard ... Jul_11.pdf with valuable insights. There are many research papers published by Harvard, MIT etc in US of A.

munirao2001

[rshankar]

I guess the OP's question should rightly be, 'Is there any specific raga to reduce high blood pressure'? (a subtle, but important difference)

Off the cuff, I'd say that the only way study this in an at least quasi-scientific way would be to conduct a cross-over study, with patients' BPs being monitored continuously, with the music they hear being piped in, in a random sequnce of ragas with repeats, with each segment lasting at least 15 minutes, preferably 30 minutes, and the sequence should have at least 2 peiods of silence/white noise. Data analysis should be stratified by the patient's exposure to CM, ability to identify ragas etc. And to eliminate at least some of the confounding effects, the music should all be either vocal (by the same vocalist), or one instrument (by the same artist) only.

[cmlover]

Of course there are ragas which when you hear your BP shoots up!
(especially when badly played (sung)

[smala]

Vedic chants, mantras, slokam, japam and tunes have long been in use and many an informed priest will tell you of the soothing, stress-lowering effects it has on individuals not to mention practitioners of this form of "bhakti" yoga who believe have reaped its benefits on its daily practice.
[I recognize this could be dismissed as the realm of non-scientific Faith and Belief, stretching Cognitive Science]

Chants, japa and singing particularly regulate breathing, if nothing else. Yoga, an unproven "art" tells us proper breathing and pranayAmA form the basis of well-being. It has caught on in the West, if in limited measure.

This might not be "scientifically proven" just as the voluminous Susruta's Samhita might not be "scientifically proven" or "recognised".

Funny how I just read the following this morning.

Gregorian chanting 'can reduce blood pressure and stress'

Stress levels could be reduced simply by participating in some Gregorian chanting, researchers claimed today.

Dr Alan Watkins, a senior lecturer in neuroscience at Imperial College London, revealed that teaching people to control their breathing and applying the musical structure of chanting can help their emotional state.

He said: "We have recently carried out research that demonstrates that the regular breathing and musical structure of chanting can have a significant and positive physiological impact."

The research involved five monks having their heart rate and blood pressure measured throughout a 24-hour period.

Results showed their heart rate and blood pressure dipped to its lowest point in the day when they were chanting.

Dr Watkins pointed to previous studies that also demonstrated such practices have been shown to lower blood pressure, increase performance hormone levels as well as reduce anxiety and depression.

The lecturer also runs Cardiac Coherence Ltd, a company that helps executives perform under stressful conditions.

He said: "The control of the breathing, the feelings of wellbeing that communal singing bring, and the simplicity of the melodies, seem to have a powerful effect on reducing blood pressure and therefore stress."

"We have found that teaching individuals to control their breathing, generate more positive emotional states and connect better with those around them – all key aspects of Gregorian chanting – can significantly improve their mental state, reduce tension, and increase their efficiency in the workplace."

Record company Universal recently chose the monks of Stift Heiligenkreuz, Vienna to make an album after responding to a public interest in the genre.

The company also believes the Halo computer game series, available on PCs and Xbox consoles, sparked a resurgence in the music traditionally sung in male church choirs, as Gregorian chant-like melodies form the main soundtrack of the games.

[smala]

Roman music, a tradition represented in Gregorian Chants, also termed as Capella, is monophonic and original chanters used no instruments as accompaniments. Stripped of accompanying sounds, even with the strong voices used, the chant can be tranquil or relaxing.

Some unorthodox doctors might suggest listening to chants when people are into panic-attacks or extreme nervousness. But these are doctors who are into Yoga and Meditation.

For the layperson, listening benefits vary from general to mind relaxation, stress-reduction to pain-relief and even further, tapping into one's soul. This might be one reason why some express a preference to die listening to Chants and certain forms of music.

[hnbhagavan]

Dear friends,

This is only by experience.When stressed I listen to Mohana,Madhyamavati,Sri,Kamas,Ritigowla ,Neelambari, even Kambodi.

[munirao2001]

Fact is all the musicians, die hard fans and practitioners of ritualistic religion,including the Gurus/Matadhipathi with the set belief of the promoted benefits had to take recourse to the medicines to manage their health. We have enough alternatives with placebo effects. Scientific studies without the premeditated findings have reported the benefits. Eminent medical practitioners in India had opined that ICM effect is restricted to the part of palliative care and general quicker recovery. I desire scientific medical research in India has to be done and published on the effects of naada of Indian Classical Music.

munirao2001

[smala]

Raga Chikitsa by Dr. T. V. Sairam

(sentence in article highlighted by me)

Long before acoustics came to be understood in Europe as a subject of study, the ancient Arab, Greek and Indian civilizations were already familiar with the therapeutic role of sounds and vibrations and the later day concepts pertaining to them. While music as a whole is well recognized for its entertainment value, the Indian civilization had gone a step forward to attribute the curative aspect to music.

The ancient system of Nada Yoga, which dates back to the time of Tantras, has fully acknowledged the impact of music on body and mind and put into practice the vibrations emanating from sounds to uplift one's level of consciousness. It is the Indian genius that recognized that ragas are not just mere commodities of entertainment but the vibrations in their resonance could synchronize with one's moods and health. By stimulating the moods and controlling the brain wave patterns, ragas could work as a complementary medicine (Sairam,2004 a & b).

What is a Raga?
Raga, we all know is the sequence of selected notes (swaras) that lend appropriate 'mood' or emotion in a selective combination. Depending on their nature, a raga could induce or intensify joy or sorrow, violence or peace and it is this quality which forms the basis for musical application. Thus, a whole range of emotions and their nuances could be captured and communicated within certain rhythms and melodies. Playing, performing and even listening to appropriate ragas can work as a medicine.(Bagchi, 2003) Various ragas have since been recognized to have definite impact on certain ailments. (Sairam, 2004b)

Historic References on Raga Chikitsa.
The ancient Hindus had relied on music for its curative role: the chanting and toning involved in Veda mantras in praise of God have been used from time immemorial as a cure for several disharmonies in the individual as well as his environment. Several sects of 'bhakti' such as Chaitanya sampradaya, Vallabha sampradaya have all accorded priority to music. Historical records too indicate that one Haridas Swami who was the guru of the famous musician in Akbar's time,Tan Sen is credited with the recovery of one of the queens of the Emperor with a selected raga.

The great composers of classical music in India called the 'Musical Trinity', - who were curiously the contemporaries of the 'Trinity of Western Classical Music, Bach, Beethoven and Mozart– were quite sensitive to the acoustical energies. Legend has it that Saint Thyagaraja brought a dead person back to life with his Bilahari composition Naa Jiva Dhaara. Muthuswamy Dikshitar's Navagriha kriti is believed to cure stomach ache. Shyama Sastry's composition Duru Sugu uses music to pray for good health.

Raga chikitsa was an ancient manuscript, which dealt with the therapeutic effects of raga. The library at Thanjavur is reported to contain such a treasure on ragas, that spells out the application and use of various ragas in fighting common ailments.

Raga Chikitsa: Raga Therapy in India
Living systems show sensitivity to specific radiant energies – be it acoustical, magnetic or electro-magnetic. As the impact of music could be easily gauged on emotions and thereby on mind, it can be used as a tool to control the physiological, psychological and even social activities of the patients

Indian classical music can be classified into two forms: kalpita sangita or composition, which is previously conceived, memorized, practised and rendered and manodharma sangita or the music extemporised and performed. The latter can be equated to the honey-mooner's first night as it conceives both spontaneity and improvisation. It is fresh and natural as it is created almost on the spot and rendered instantly on the spur of the moment.

According to an ancient Indian text, Swara Sastra, the seventy-two melakarta ragas (parent ragas ) control the 72 important nerves in the body. It is believed that if one sings with due devotion, adhering to the raga lakshana (norms) and sruti shuddhi, (pitch purity) the raga could affect the particular nerve in the body in a favourable manner.

While the descending notes in a raga (avarohana) do create inward-oriented feelings, the ascending notes (arohana) represent an upward mobility. Thus music played for the soldiers or for the dancers have to be more lively and up lifting with frequent use of arohana content. In the same way, melancholic songs should go for 'depressing' avarohanas. Although it is not a rule, most of the Western tunes based on major keys play joyful notes, while those composed in minor keys tend to be melancholic or serious.

Certain ragas do have a tendency to move the listeners, both emotionally as well as physically. An involuntary nod of the head, limbs or body could synchronize with lilting tunes when played.

Some Therapeutic Ragas
Some ragas like Darbari Kanhada, Kamaj and Pooriya are found to help in defusing mental tension, particularly in the case of hysterics. For those who suffer from hypertension, ragas such as Ahirbhairav, Pooriya and Todi are prescribed. To control anger and bring down the violence within, Carnatic ragas like Punnagavarali, Sahana etc. do come handy.

This author, experimenting on the impact of raga on mentally-retarded (MR) children has noticed that it is the right combination of rhythms and tempo, which also affect the quality of a raga.

Not only psychological impact, but also somatic or physiological impact of ragas has come to light in some recent works. (Sairam, 2004b). For instance, stomach-related disorders are said to be cured with some Hindustani Ragas such as Deepak (acidity) , Gunkali and Jaunpuri ( constipation) and Malkauns or Hindolam (intestinal gas and for controlling fevers). Fevers like malaria are also said to be controlled by the ragas like Marva. For headaches, relaxing with the ragas like Durbari Kanada, Jayjaywanti and Sohni is said to be beneficial.

Conclusion
There is a growing awareness that ragas could be a safe alternative for many medical interventions.

Simple iterative musical rhythms with low pitched swaras, as in bhajans and kirtans are the time-tested sedatives, which can even substitute the synthetic analgesics, which show many a side-effect. They are capable of leading to relaxation, as observed with the alpha-levels of the brain waves. They may also lead to favourable hormonal changes in the system. (Crandall, 1986).

It is therefore felt that there is an urgent need for further detailed enquiry to be based on scientific parameters, which will go a long way in unearthing the goldmine on which the Indian musical system is resting now.

For this purpose, it is necessary that a group of exponents in Indian ragas join experts in medicine to help evolving a scientific system of raga therapy for the most common illness of the modern times: stress and stress-related disorders. Our leaders, professionals and managers all suffer from stress, thanks to the ever-increasing man-machine interface, resulting in the machine making the man to behave!

BIBLIOGRAPHY

Bagchi, K. (Ed.) Music, Mind and Mental Health New Delhi: Society for Gerontological Research
Crandall, J. 1986 Self-transformation through Music New Delhi: New Age
Sairam, T. V. 2004 a . Medicinal Music. Chennai: Nada Centre for Music Therapy
Sairam T. V. 2004 b. Raga Therapy. Chennai: Nada Centre for Music Therapy.

Dr T V Sairam, is from F/48B, Hari Nagar New Delhi 110064
For any doubts you can contact him at - [email protected]

********

[varsha]

How ancient is the subject of hypertension .
Any references to it in history , mytholigical texts , travellogues , compositions ?
I ask this because I have similar doubts in krithis like say the one by Purandaradsar (which mentions plantain as one of cheaper fruits , exhorting us all to buy ).
So bananas must have had a long tenure as a cheap fruit . Not anymore

btw for over a decade I have calmed myself by playing a concert version of Makelara by Neyveli Santhangopalan , whenever I feel stressed .
https://archive.org/details/makelara

There is magic in those words . And In his singing . That track can calm an enraged elephant too.The swaras he has sung for that track have an unmatched beauty

[vs_manjunath]

Decades back Dr MBK was into music therapy acc to News Paper reports.

[Purist]

I believe a lot depends on the musician's ability to create the desired effect. A raga per se will not prove panacea to everyone when rendered by anyone.
Musician's ability is drawn from his own anthahkarna shuddi, or simply put his nadopasana level. To cite my own experience, I find instant relief from headache/or kind of
depressed feeling, when I listen to a particular Thodi-Koluvamargadha of the great MMI in a 1960 LGJ/UKS concert (here MMI/ LGJ take it another level during the nereval).
Keeravani has also that salubrious feeling. As pointed out in this thread, Sri Ganapathi sachitananda swamigal of Mysore has done quite some work on music therapy and what
he says about Keeravani could be true. Infact next to the Thodi I said above, it is Keervani (in particualar an elaborate Kaligiyunte ) that soothens the mind/nerves and in turn
the blood pressure level I guess. If scientific proof is needed a study should be conducted with BP patients exposed to these ragas and readings monitored. Well that raises
the issues how ready is the Patient to absorb/listen. What if, he is of the kind whose BP shoots up when exposed to raga )

[Rsachi]

Medscape 2012:MUSIC CAN REDUCE BLOOD PRESSURE, DEPENDING ON THE TEMPO
A new study reported in Heart, a British Medical Journal publication, has shown that listening to fast music increases blood pressure, whereas listening to slower music has the opposite effect.[22] Randomly introducing a pause into the music lowers blood pressure even further. These effects are particularly marked in people who have had musical training.

Researchers from Italy and the United Kingdom studied cardiovascular and respiratory responses in 12 classically trained musicians and 12 people with no musical training (medical students or colleagues) while they were listening to music in a university research laboratory. Study participants listened to recordings of 6 different types of music:

Indian raga (Introduction from Debabrata Chaudhuri's "Raga Maru Behag")

Slow classical (Adagio from Beethoven's "9th Symphony")

Fast classical (Presto from Vivaldi's "L'estate")

Dodecaphonic ("Zart bewegt" from Webern's "6 Pieces for Orchestra")]

Rap (Red Hot Chili Peppers: "The Power of Equality")

Techno (Gigi D'Agostino: "You Spin Me Round")

The 6 recordings were played, in random order, for 2 min each, with no intervening pauses, followed by a second playing of the 6 pieces, in different random order, for 4 min each with 2-min periods of silence randomly inserted into the sequences.

Music with faster tempi and simpler rhythmic structures significantly increased ventilation, breathing rate, SBP and DBP, mid-cerebral artery blood flow velocity (measured by trans-cranial Doppler), and heart rate. Slower music had less effect and raga induced a significantly large drop in heart rate. When the music was paused, heart rate, blood pressure, and ventilation decreased, sometimes even below the starting rate. The effects appeared to be dependent on the tempo of the music rather than on the style. The 2-min pauses were associated with the lowest SBP and DBP, heart rate, and minute ventilation. None of the effects differed between the musician and nonmusician groups, except the respiratory rate, which was significantly lower at baseline and increased more in response to faster music in the musicians.

Lead researchers Luciano Bernardi, MD (University of Pavia, Italy) and Peter Sleight, MD (John Radcliffe Hospital, Oxford, UK), noted that their findings appear to contradict those of previous studies, which reported that "meditative" music can decrease heart rate, blood pressure, and plasma catecholamines. They hypothesized that all music, even fast music, includes pauses, and it is the pauses that releasethe subject from the arousal, and possibly from the attention created by concentrating on the music. This mimics a typical relaxation technique in which a person focuses on a physical or mental object (ie, music) and then releases the attention, achieving a relaxed state. This is the first study to show this relaxing effect with music, the researchers believe.

Profs. Bernardi and Sleight suggested that appropriate modulation of breathing can improve or restore autonomic control of cardiovascular and respiratory systems in relevant diseases such as hypertension and heart failure, and might therefore help to improve exercise tolerance, quality of life, and, ultimately, survival. They had previously studied the effects of rosary prayers and yoga mantras, which, when recited at 6 times per minute, caused an increase in existing cardiovascular rhythms and baroreflex sensitivity.[23]

[Rsachi]

There is a seminal book "Reversing Heart Disease" which discusses how prANAyAma and yOga have therapeutic effects.
This combined with articles like the one cited above show that the exact effect of music depends on the response of the subject to music. If the subject can respond by relaxation, rhythmic breathing at a lower rate and a sense of well-being, we multiply the chances of lowering BP. Exactly which raga depends on the subject himself I think, and one would need to try out different types of recording apart from genres and actual musicians.

If you are a diehard CM fan, familiarity and prejudices will also have a role in all this!

[rajeshnat]

A great neuro surgeon recognized all over the world was Late Neuro Dr B ramamurthi who was based out of chennai .He had written few writeups of music (different ragas) and also connecting neurology, yogas with music.What is most interesting is that he has also done few clinical assessments when he worked in VHS and another institution that he setup(forgot the name) . I have read few short writeups of his in hard copies many years back - if some one has access to any of those and share it that would be wonderful. His words were concise not that he was over glorifying his subject neurology or telling everthing under the sun can be attacked with a particular raga.

Attn- cmlover and rshankar - By any chance have you had a chance to work or know about Neuro Ramamurthi and his writeups involving neurology and music .

[Rsachi]

Rajesh
I knew Dr B R professionally. He was well informed on Indian scriptures and was associated with GH, VHS, Kanchi math etc.

I think it is long recognized that yoga, pranayama and classical/soothing/prayerful music helps in regulating metabolism and bringing down BP, even blood sugar etc. it is a kind of biofeedback system.
Please read the book I mentioned earlier "Reversing Heart Disease" by Dr. Dean Ornish. He is a HIGHLY respected doctor from Harvard:
http://www.baytalinsaan.com/ebooks/Reve ... isease.pdf

[bilahari]

Rajesh
Dr. Dean Ornish. He is a HIGHLY respected doctor from Harvard:
http://www.baytalinsaan.com/ebooks/Reve ... isease.pdf

He is not.

[venkatakailasam]

Dr B Ramamurthy was a close relative of my father.
Once I remember he asked my mother during a consultation with him
to listen to “OM’ mantra for 20 mts.
My mother was richly benefited by the suggestion by him..
(Incidentally he was closely connected with Tamil Nadu Brahmins Association)..
I have recorded OM chanting in my Cell phone and listen to it by using a hearing aid
And it may surprise you that my BP comes down to near normal (86/130)…whenever it is high…

[Rsachi]

Bilahari, please tell me what's erroneous after reading Wikipedia on Ornish. I quote:

Ornish was recognized as “one of the most interesting people of 1996” by People magazine; selected as one of the “TIME 100” in integrative medicine; honored as “one of the 125 most extraordinary University of Texas alumni in the past 125 years;” chosen by LIFE magazine as “one of the fifty most influential members of his generation;” and by Forbes magazine as “one of the seven most powerful teachers in the world.”

[smala]

Rsachi, Dr. Dean Ornish does not appeal to mainstream medical practitioners or aspirants, hence the "he is not". Integrative medicine is not popular among the mainstream.

[Rsachi]

Well integrative medicine or not, his research is well documented.

[smala]

Well integrative medicine or not, his research is well documented.

Documented and accepted by mainstream medicos are way apart.

Somewhat like K. T. Achaya, chemist, scientist, researcher who wrote volumes yet was never recognized by the fraternity or the Government.

[KNV1955]

Is there a Raga which is proven to have an impact in reducing blood pressure?
Any thoughts?

Any other discussion related to other ragas and its significance in curing any illness can also be discussed here.

Varali. Sarvalokanivarani . Listen to kA vA vA of Brinda & Muktha or Seshachala Nayakam neraval (aravinda patra nayanaṃ gōvindaṃ uraga śayanaṃ) of Ari School or Bala's Subramanya Bhujangam. My father (KVN) & Bala consulted the same physician. Dr AM Selvaraj an outstanding physician. Dr Badrinath of Sankar Netralaya introduced my father to AMS. My father would tell him that he is worried about his fitness with concerts to follow. Dr AMS would say KVN start with Varali varnam or sing varali ragam everything will be fine. He loved Bala's dance & Singing & would slip from his clinic quietly to attend to my father's concert in Chennai . AMS & KVN were mutual admirers. He hardly ever took money from my father for consultation. He was never interested in money like Dr Thambiah, the famous skin specialist. He used to say present generation loves equipments. He loved his patients. Rarely we see such great human beings. :-BD
KNV

[Sivaramakrishnan]

It seems there's an exclusive Music therapy dept. at Apollo Hospitals, Chennai.

Kunnakudi Vaidyanathan ran a Raga research Centre while he headed the Iyal Isai nataka mandram, Tamilnadu.

Tirupati Devastanam is known to air Devotional songs (beginning with Suprabhatam) in their dairy farms to increase yield among other benefits.

Response from anyone having contact/experience welcome.

[vgovindan]

Ahir Bhairav - http://aanmikam.blogspot.in/2011/03/blog-post_1943.html

[arasi]

KNV,
Your father singing SEshAchala nAyakam and marakatha maNi varNA surely played 'doctor' to many a rasikA.

After many years, I listened to him in Connecticut and his dattAtrEyAdi which I hadn't heard before filled me with awe. My 'moved to tears moment' was when I heard him sing nI vArAdirundAl...tears of joy.

His singing was soothing, and I'm sure many with hypertension felt at peace after listening to him, their blood pressure reaching a desired level...

[rshankar]

Attn- cmlover and rshankar - By any chance have you had a chance to work or know about Neuro Ramamurthi and his writeups involving neurology and music .

Rajesh, I only knew of him professionally, and agree that he was a superb neuro-surgeon. Ramesh (Mahavishnu) may know more about Dr. Ramamurthy's work on neurology and music.
The problem with many studies (not all) of music and it's benefits are not truly controlled clinical trials - they are more in the genre of anecdotes or uncontrolled reports, and as such are good for generating hypotheses, which need to be tested carefully. Part if the problem is that these types of studies cost a lot of money to carefully design, be of sufficient size to be adequately powered, conduct, collate and analyze data and write up. And even if they show great benefit to the patients, none of the current major sponsors of clinical research (mainly the pharmaceutical companies) stand to benefit from these types of studies - there's nothing there for them to 'sell' - despite attempts by labels, no one can actually own a rAga or composition (:)). Such research should ideally be funded by tax-payers monies, like from the MCI, but most science budgets are notoriously skimpy, and have other competing demands. It is possible if the musicians have their own organization that funds such research - but then again, I think such organizations, if they exist, should prioritize providing health and retirement benefits for their members over anything else. That leaves foundations (the Indian equivalent of the bill and Melinda Gates foundation for example) that could be interested in funding such research. So, you see how difficult it will be for such research to actually get done....

[KNV1955]

Arsai Calling Dattatreya musically will cure all illness, I uploaded in KV Narayanaswamy page on Dattreya Jayanthi day

KNV

[mahavishnu]

The problem with many studies (not all) of music and it's benefits are not truly controlled clinical trials - they are more in the genre of anecdotes or uncontrolled reports, and as such are good for generating hypotheses, which need to be tested carefully. Part if the problem is that these types of studies cost a lot of money to carefully design, be of sufficient size to be adequately powered, conduct, collate and analyze data and write up.

I completely agree with Ravi. This is not an area where there is much by way of rigorously study with appropriate controls. To the best of my knowledge, Dr. B. Ramamurthy (and others of his kind) were brilliant clinicians but were not trained researchers. So, they resorted to anecdotal evidence (which is enough to convince many here), which makes the scientific community uneasy and for good reason. As is the case with Dean Ornish (see Bilahari's misgivings about this earlier in the thread).

The closest that I have seen to a thorough review in this area comes from the group of Dan Levitin in Montreal. http://download.cell.com/trends/cogniti ... diate=true

Here is an excerpt from the paper that sums it up perfectly:

If the notion of music as medicine is to be taken literally,
it is crucial to employ as rigorous designs for its investigation
as for testing traditional forms of medication. It may
turn out that the mechanism of action for music is not due
to the music itself, but to embedded or ancillary factors,
such as distraction, mood induction, locus of control, and
perceptual-cognitive stimulation. If this is the case, music
may be effective, but not uniquely so – other interventions
(crossword puzzles, films, plays) may show equivalent
effects if matched for embedded factors.

[cameo]

Ahir Bhairav - http://aanmikam.blogspot.in/2011/03/blog-post_1943.html

Thanks everyone for pouring in your thoughts..The information shared is invaluable. I am comprehending the various responses, links and pointers..

@ vgovindan :Thanks for the link shared. Could you please translate the Tamil content in that link to English. At least the relevant parts from it.

[vgovindan]

cameo,
The relevant portion reads - "Which rAga heals which disease? - Ahir Bhairav heals indigestion, high blood pressure called hypertension and joint pains.
......"

[bilahari]

Sachi,

Dean Ornish's research has small sample sizes, short-term following of patients, poor controls, and in public he draws severely exaggerated conclusions from his work, successfully misleading if not conning people everywhere. His claim to fame, as far as I know, is a singular paper published some years ago. His success is not from astute and rigorous science but cunning public relations.

I hope you realise that none of us here is refuting the possibility that music can significantly impact hypertension, although I will say that many lifestyle modifications have been shown to have a rather small impact on hypertension. The etiology of the most common form of hypertension (primary, or essential as it used to be called) is not understood but multifactorial and heritable. It is possible that music and meditation and other similar efforts reduce blood pressure by lowering catecholamines temporarily and effectively calming a person, but may not have that significant an effect on the underlying condition itself (this is my own hypothesis). As Ravi and Mahavishnu have mentioned, we need meticulous research to point us one way or the other. I would go a step further and advise severe caution even in interpreting peer-reviewed published research. A majority of research we see today even in the fleshy journals like Nature and Science have severe caveats (pay special attention to the obvious question unanswered or the obvious experiments NOT reported) and I think there is a lot of idealisation in science that is perhaps even necessary to show dramatic results and publish. We need to be very sceptical of what we read, no matter if it's People magazine's list of most interesting people or yet another paper in a high impact journal promising us an artificial kidney from stem cells.

[smala]

Re: 'anecdotal', 'small sample sizes', 'poor controls'...



Are Case studies, even if they are observational, qualitative, descriptive to be dismissed? It was case studies that established the now-widely accepted link between smoking and lung cancer.

Research on music and effects/relief in ailments traverses psycho-sociological domain.

[rshankar]

Are Case studies, even if they are observational, qualitative, descriptive to be dismissed? It was case studies that established the now-widely accepted link between smoking and.

No, not dismissed, but a case cannot be made just on this basis...they need to be followed up with hypothesis-testing studies to be established and accepted as evidence-based. The weight of evidence from case reports, observational studies, and descriptive reports were all in favor of the clear benefit from HRT for post-menopausal women, and for tighter glycemic control to reduce macro vascular risk for patients with diabetes. Larger, well controlled studies have clearly demonstrated harm from these practices under most circumstances, especially if carried out indiscriminately.

[smala]

rshankar:

In the absence of hypotheses-testing which is highly unlikely as you stated earlier, the world will go on. The average person interested in Raga Chikitsa will continue to seek the best information from what is around, be it from from reported personal experiences and/or any case studies that are around or by simply discovering what works for the individual. Unlike the scenario you state, this is unlikely to cause any harm.

[rshankar]

True, unlikely to cause harm, but if there is good in it, it will not be widely recognized...or recommended.

[smala]

No, not dismissed, but a case cannot be made just on this basis...they need to be followed up with hypothesis-testing studies to be established and accepted as evidence-based. The weight of evidence from case reports, observational studies, and descriptive reports were all in favor of the clear benefit from HRT for post-menopausal women, and for tighter glycemic control to reduce macro vascular risk for patients with diabetes. Larger, well controlled studies have clearly demonstrated harm from these practices under most circumstances, especially if carried out indiscriminately.

A disturbing thought. Anaikku arram nA kudaraikku kurram-A?

I just thought of what the scenario might be if the same logic of needing well-controlled studies would be when and if applied to GMO - there is ample evidence, if anecdotal, if observational, if reported, of the ill-effects/damage done by GMO - what it does to the fields and eco-system.

Not known are the potential ill-effects it can have on the human body. It will take years for the effects of GMO consumption to reveal what harm real and potential it might do.

So a simple question : Are you consuming GMO products for lack of "scientific" well-controlled studies linking these products to harm?
[We all know what the results might look like if such studies funded by the Corporates take place].

Quick example, soy, corn that gets into many and most processed foods sold in large chain grocery stores, Ralph's, Lucky's, Safeway, Raleigh, etc. Fresh corn-on-the-cob you buy from these stores are grown by Food Conglomerates that support Monsanto as does the FDA. Processed foods can be anything from breakfast cereal to standard Multi-grain Flours to heat and eat products plus all the food served in hospital cafeterias and American eateries.

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

In the face of thoughtful and thought-provoking posts by Forumites(S.Mala.Bilahari,R.Shankar et al),I thought a touch of levity(as is my wont!!) would be in order here--an anecdote about SSI commenting indirectly on the "benefits: of Music to cure illness or even resurrect the dead!!
SSI was always trifle cynical when it came to linking Music with curative powers. He used to "debunk" the theory about Thyagaraja's Bilahari Krithi in Bilahari being linked to the resurrection from the dead of a young boy when Thygaraja was distressed to see the plight of the boy's parents . SSI used to cynically say in Tamil --crudely translated-- "If you sing all the numerous sangathis in the krithi ,what little life that may be left would be gone"!!
My experience with people having hypertension, shows----genes and lifestyle changes are the primary factors and as much as I love music I personally would not rely on Music to cure my ailment --no matter how rigorous and scientific the studies may be and how definitive the results may be!!

Also as CMLover points out how the raga is sung may overwhelm other evidence!!!

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

Sorry the kriti in my above post is Najeevadhara--not that the forumites would not know!!!

[munirao2001]

Religion has three parts-Mythology, Theosophy and Philosophy. Make belief is resorted to establish a religion, prove unworthiness of all other religions, to set the strong unquestioning belief and practice. Church Music, Indian Classical Music and Devotional Music is all based on the religion-mythology and theosophy. Very rarely on the philosophy. As part of the myth making and promotions, authoritative reports will be published. All unchecked and unverified. Please avoid misguidance and exploitation-physical or psychological.

Many serious research study results have given the result and benefit is restricted to the benefits related to meditation only. Factually no one has benefited and also continue struggle with guna doshas. I request forunites not to join this myth making but enjoy and support the classical music for the self realization and listening pleasure moments. I am doing study and research on the music in Vedas, Aaranyakas, Brhma sutras and Upanishad. After I complete the study I will submit the article containing the details. I expect to complete this study within in the next six months.

munirao2001

[vgovindan]

Anaikku arram nA kudaraikku kurram-A
Sorry for interruption - it should be 'kudiraikku gurram-nA yAnaikku yarram-A'

[smala]

Anaikku arram nA kudaraikku kurram-A
Sorry for interruption - it should be 'kudiraikku gurram-nA yAnaikku yarram-A'

Muy me obligaria

[varsha]

Religion has three parts-Mythology, Theosophy and Philosophy. Make belief is resorted to establish a religion, prove unworthiness of all other religions, to set the strong unquestioning belief and practice.

Some more thoughts on these ....

.......... Mysticism keeps men sane. As long as you have mystery, you have health. When you destroy mystery, you create morbidity. The ordinary man has always been sane because he has always been a mystic. He has permitted the twilight. He has always had one foot in earth and the other in fairyland. He has always left himself free to doubt his Gods; but free also to believe in them. He has always cared more for truth than for consistency. If he saw two truths that seemed to contradict each other, he would take the two truths and the contradiction along with them. His spiritual sight as stereoscopic: he sees two different pictures at once and yet sees all the better for that.

Thus he has always believed that there was such a thing as fate, but such a thing as free will also. Thus he believed that children were indeed the Kingdom of Heaven, but nevertheless ought to be obedient to the Kingdom of earth. He admired Youth because it was young and Age because it was not. It is exactly this balance of apparent contradictions that has been the whole buoyancy of the healthy man.

The whole secret of mysticism is this;
THAT MAN CAN UNDERSTAND EVERY THING BY THE HELP OF WHAT HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND.
The morbid logician seeks to make everything lucid, and succeeds in making everything mysterious. The mystic allows one thing to be mysterious, and everything else becomes lucid.
As we have taken the circle as the symbol of reason and madness, we may very well take the cross as the symbol at once of mystery and health.
Buddhism is centripetal. But Christianity is centrifugal; it breaks out. The cross, though it has at its heart, a collision and contradiction, can extend its four arms forever without altering shape. Because it has a paradox at its center, it can grow without changing. The cross opens its arms to the four winds; it is a signpost for free travelers.
And another symbol from physical nature will express sufficiently well, the real place of mysticism before mankind.
The one created thing, which we cannot look at, is the one thing in the light of which we look at everything. Like the Sun at noonday, mysticism explains everything else by the blaze of its own victorious invisibility.

Detached intellectualism is all moonshine; for it is the light without heat,and it is secondary light, reflected from a dead world. But the Greeks were right when they made Apollo the God of both imagination and of sanity. For he was both a patron of poetry and the patron of healing.
The Transcendentalism by which all men live has primarily much the position of the sun in the sky. We are conscious of it as a kind of splendid confusion; it is both shining and shapeless, at once a blaze and a blur..........

GK Chesterton in his essay - The Maniac

[smala]

Here's some funny results from an empirical (should be, right?) study from NSF. (I could say Go figure... )

http://phys.org/news/2014-02-americans- ... s-sun.html