Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

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Nick H
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Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

Classic Act (The Hindu)
The BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra is all set to enthral the Chennai audience with a spectacular performance of classical music, its first ever in the city, on March 29. Divya Kumar has the details

It’s one of the biggest ever undertakings by a British orchestra in India. The celebrated BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra (BBC SSO) will embark on a three-city tour of India, beginning with its first ever performance in Chennai on March 29.
The performance will be held at the Sir Mutha Venkatasubba Rao Concert Hall at 7 p.m. on March 29. The mandatory dress code is black tie/ Indian formals.
I'm cross. I wrote to [email protected] ....
The BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra should be welcomed to Chennai, and all music lovers should be welcome to the concert. But they are not: "The Mandatory dress code is black tie / Indian formals."

The very idea of a dress code to appreciate and enjoy music is absolutely ridiculous.

Is this a concert or a fancy-dress event? One of the things that Western classical music has had to struggle with is its off-putting aura of elitism: that classical music is not for all, it is for those, for instance, who can afford and choose to buy and wear evening dress.

I have been to Covent Garden wearing jeans, and, although it is true that I more self-concious person might have felt out of place, at least nobody tried to tell me that I could not enjoy Wagner on account of my clothes.

Ask for concert decorum by all means. Tell people they will not be allowed in after the start, and that they should be seated and quiet during the performance. Carnatic music here would benefit from a dose of Western concert decorum. But by insisting on dress that a limited sector of the public will even own, or not allowing people who need to come straight from the office, many true or possible music lovers are left rejected. This is a travesty of art.

Unless the aim is to conduct a fancy-dress event for the wealthy, rather than to bring rare classical music to Chennai, this foolishness should be reconsidered . It is a foolishness that you would not find, for instance, at London's Royal Festival Hall.

I am personally very disappointed to be excluded, but the principle of making the music available to all is far more important than the effect on just one person. This absurd restriction should make all art lovers, even those who do own and wear evening dress, very angry.

Rsachi
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Rsachi »

I look up at the overworked ceiling fan, rolling my eyes in 37C Blr.weather, and see a constellation of wedding suits unmothballed and stuffed with sweaty and itchy music lovers of Chennai.
Is the Scottish armada invading Bangalore,too? They couldn't expect a warmer reception ever.

arasi
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by arasi »

Nick,
How outmoded can some rituals of religion (sorry, music) be!

I don't mean the following as a compromise, but as a practical suggestion:

The balcony seats (unseen by the elite, gosh!) can be sold to 'commoners' , don't you think? If music be the staff of life, bread-eaters can also listen to the music the 'cake eating, willing to dress up for the lone occasion' folks are offered!
I'm not saying 'for free'. No doubt, filled balcony seats will fetch a handsome amount for the organizers.

Related questions: how many women come clad in furs to concert halls these days?
How many concert halls for that matter have a dress code these days?

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Is dhoti considered Indian Formal?

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

Probably. I strongly suspect that if my wife dons kanchipuram silk, and I wear kurta/vesti, especially if they are silk too, that it could be considered "informal." I'm sure they would let us in. But then, we would just be a part of the charade.

Arasi, one can "phone for invitations" to the main hall. Do think the famous Nick-H is famous enough? Or perhaps too infamous!

As to Western halls, even if lots of people like to dress up (and why not!) I don't think anything has been imposed for a long time. It is twenty years ago that I sat in a £100 (!!!) seat in the stalls at Covent Garden wearing a pair of jeans.

I've refused an invitation from a Boat Club member because I know they won't let me in, and I prefer to follow my dress code not theirs. As to local, traditional clothing not being acceptable, somebody should tell them about Independence. Or they should move their precious club to London.

X(

Rsachi
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Rsachi »

Indian formal:
Image

Indian Informal:

Image
Last edited by Rsachi on 21 Mar 2014, 08:59, edited 4 times in total.

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

Ahh, yes indeed.

As I have never [yet] got into lungi wearing, I hadn't thought of it like that.

(my at-home informal is probably a step or two beyond lungi: it is a knee-length cotton towel.)

venkatakailasam
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by venkatakailasam »

Just a glimpse ...

BBC SSO Tour of India 2014 along with date of performance..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZNzzCOQ ... nCGUEF3O8w

The Hall at Chennai
Image

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

The hall is great; I have been there several times, it is one of the best.

Delhi is getting a free concert, I think somebody said Kolkatta is too, but in Chennai we have to put up with this VIP penguin-suit crap! :(

I think someone has hijacked this event as their own private party, financed by letting a few commoners pay for balcony tickets. This really is a disgrace.

arasi
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by arasi »

VKailasam,
Where in Chennai is this impressive-looking hall?

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by vasanthakokilam »

(from Google)
Sir Mutha Venkatasubba Rao concert hall
Shenstone Park, 13/1, Harrington Road, Chetpet,, Chennai 600031
Image
Image
Image

arasi
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by arasi »

Thanks VK!
Looks impressive. I have gone past it while going to the other very appealing hall in Chetpet (the Chinmaya Center one), but haven't noticed it or been told about it. So far, I haven't noted any programs happening here during the season either.

mahavishnu
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by mahavishnu »

Arasi, the rather unique concert where Ravikiran and U Srinivas played together took place here.
Other than that, I have not heard of it being used for any other major Carnatic event.

On the original topic of the thread, I still can't believe that this antediluvian dress code exists anywhere.

Thalaivarda
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Thalaivarda »

attended a ganesh-kumaresh-zakir hussain-trilok gurtu concert a couple of years back..

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

Arasi, the hall itself is set well back from the street, and you would never see it unless you are looking for it. What you probably do know of is Lady Andal School, to which it is attached.

Knowing the limitless extent of your connections, it would not surprise me if you had not met Lady Andal herself! :)

I've been to a rock concert there (Osibisa); I've been to a dance arangetram there (I bet it is expensive to hire!); and I've been to two or three school functions there (eg Grandparents' Day. eek!); but I think there is no sabha linkup or season involvement. Anyway, it is past my ordinary-drive tolerance.

arasi
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by arasi »

Thanks to Lady Andal, there is a good hall in her name.

The only Lady ANDAL I know is the consort of Lord RangamannAr at SrivilliputhUr :)
You know her too, as the lady of the thiruppAvai verses.

Just wondered. What if a scot from Dundee who is interested in the orchestra finds this thread. All the native stuff we are talking about will not make sense. Holy haggis!

Another thought...What if some of the classical musicians of CM are invited to the concert and they want to attend? No problem with the dames--silk, gold and jasmine strands. How about the male musicians?

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by vasanthakokilam »

>it would not surprise me if you had not met Lady Andal herself!
>Holy haggis!

Nick, Arasi: LOL, that is quite a funny exchange between you two.

Arasi: I am sure our classical musicians of CM can out-formal anyone with the indian male formals.

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

:lol:

VK, whilst it is true that it has always been about music, I don't think I have ever mentioned anyone to Arasi that she didn't know! Many of them, she turns out to be related to!

Anyway, I've been beating the drum on this one all day, and my social-activist energy is all used up. I've sent a few e-mails, and shared the whole thing with others, one or two of who have also written to various involved parties. No staying power, us youngsters <Blush>.

Shall I don the silk vesti and the long kurta, and attend, with kanchipuram-clad wife? Frankly, I think I'd be happier at Ragasudha Hall! :)

rajeshnat
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by rajeshnat »

mahavishnu wrote:Arasi, the rather unique concert where Ravikiran and U Srinivas played together took place here.
Other than that, I have not heard of it being used for any other major Carnatic event.
in 2011 and 2012 there was this real estate company by name arun excello that held few carnatic concerts . I have personally attended a 45 min portion of a sanjay subrahmanyan full length concert . Then there was a sikkil gurucharan and abhishek raghuram that was advertised and that was held there . Many years back i think there was a aruna sairam and also Bombay Jayashri and tmk. Usually we have jazz-jugalbandhi-fusion profile concerts , many of those(not all) like a november fest academy gas balloon . It is a lovely hall with a nice lighting and the sound system is excellent too.

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

Post Script...

The Hindu published my "comment" on p.3 of today's Friday Review.

I can't find it online.

Rsachi
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Rsachi »

Last edited by Rsachi on 04 Apr 2014, 16:18, edited 1 time in total.

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

Thank you :)

arasi
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by arasi »

Happy to see this published, Nick :)

Well, it says S is tamil?? !!

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Nice to see that, Nick. They picked the appropriate line out of your comment as a caption for the photo.

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

Cheers :)
arasi wrote:Well, it says S is tamil?? !!
Hmmm, yes... If a stranger asks, she prefers to fall back on the state she actually grew up in, and the language that she considers her first language, rather than get into personal history. So that's what I told them :)

cienu
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by cienu »

Nick
That was so nice to read. Congratulations :)
More power to the voices from Rasikas.Org !

mahavishnu
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by mahavishnu »

Nick, well written. Thanks for saying what is right!

rshankar
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by rshankar »

Very nice, Nick - and the shout out to the rasikas in Delhi was great. Hope they get to see it in time...

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by vasanthakokilam »

When Nick first brought this up, I was reminded of another story from Calcutta a few years back. Today I found a link to that story. I am curious to know if their policy about dress codes has changed since then.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -code.html

This is the same Calcutta Club that did not admit Indians till 1964 .

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

Look closer to home, VK. The Madras Boat Club has such a dress code even today.

Sadly, The Hindu did not facilitate negative comment before the event. Only one person's comments made it to the article thread online, although I know that at least three of us made similar points. It is moderated, and apparently all articles are closed for comment after three days. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I say, yeh, convenient for some!

However, thanks to The Hindu for eventual publication, albeit in the midst of wasn't-it-all-wonderful reviews. Thanks to the individuals there who thought that the argument did have some merit, and facilitated the publication.

Let us hope for better next time, although if it is the same venue, then I don't think the management will want that.

Thanks, all, for kind comments :)

vallknowme
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by vallknowme »

Sadly, The Hindu did not facilitate negative comment before the event.
Nick, the same can be said of rasikas. While, srkris is doing a good job of moderating with the help of others, finally it is what the publishers choose to publish. Codes, rules and agreements :) sangeetham.com was more of a liberal forum with a lot of freedom for people to express, but we all know what happened at the end!

rajeshnat
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by rajeshnat »

Nick
Great one , it was concise , by the way where did you study was that oxford?

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

I spent my youth avoiding study, failed most exams, and certainly did not make it to university! <Blush>

harimau
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by harimau »

abrasive wrote:Thanks to Lady Andal, there is a good hall in her name.
The concert hall is named for her husband, Sir Mutha Venkatasubba Rao. It is near (perhaps inside) the campus of the Lady Andal School, named for his wife.

Sir Mutha founded Madras Seva Sadan. While the Lady Andal School is for the privileged section of society, the Seva Sadan School right next door caters to the underprivileged section.

Despite serving the British Government in The Madras Presidency and earning a knighthood for it, Sir Mutha was quite conscious of his obligations to help the poor and oppressed sections of society.

Ha ha ha! My iPad has decided that Arasi is not the word I meant and has called you something you most certainly are not!
But that is better than kssr being renamed kisser!

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

It is inside the campus. Madras Seva Sadan manage the hall and Lady Andal school.

rajeshnat
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by rajeshnat »

Sir Mutha venkata subba rao is a lawyer by profession and served as judge of Madras High Court. He had also a school which is Sir M Venkata subba Rao School which is in T Nagar at the midpoint of CCA and Bharat kalachar.

Review of this program that appeared few days back
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 856269.ece

arasi
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by arasi »

Rajesh,
Thanks for bringing an excellent review about a notable event.

Harimau,
That imp iPad! Thanks for being kind towards me (and not abrasive!) I'm starting to wonder what other tricks that hand-held mischief-maker can play with other names :)

rshankar
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by rshankar »

arasi wrote:I'm starting to wonder what other tricks that hand-held mischief-maker can play with other names :)
Or, be blamed for not so unintentional slips? :)

arasi
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by arasi »

Ravi,
May be we shouldn't bring 'projection' into this :) Now, Harimau, don't take your kind words back and pounce on me, as Sachi's animated icon would!

iPad imp will be extremely flattering to you by calling you ravishing, CML will be camel, KNV knave, MV mover, Nick panicking, MKR maker (wow!) and so on...

harimau
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by harimau »

arasi wrote:Ravi,
May be we shouldn't bring 'projection' into this :) Now, Harimau, don't take your kind words back and pounce on me, as Sachi's animated icon would!

iPad imp will be extremely flattering to you by calling you ravishing, CML will be camel, KNV knave, MV mover, Nick panicking, MKR maker (wow!) and so on...
Harimau becomes Harriman!
rshankar remains rshankar, not ravishing.
cacm is renamed calm.
mkr is now Mir. Wasn't that the name of a Russian sacecraft? Does that make him a space cadet? :))
Knv became his father, KVN! The child is indeed the father of the man! :)
MV is MVP (Most Valued Player).
Rsachi is Reaching.
rajeshnat has been so prolific in his posts, my iPad honours him by not changing his name.

And I can't get it to make kssr kisser again. :(

It looks like if I type the name a second time after ignoring and deleting the iPad's suggested replacement, the device takes that and stores it in its memory, never to offer the suggested alternative again.

kvchellappa
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by kvchellappa »

An anecdote from TMK's column in The Hindu today:
Invited for a formal dinner at a friend’s residence, Vidyasagar is denied entry by the security guard who thinks he is an uninvited guest since he is not appropriately dressed. A little while later Vidyasagar returns attired in a suit and is promptly welcomed. When dinner is served, he directs the food not to his mouth but to the clothes he is wearing. The bewildered host asks him if there is a problem, to which he replies that he is feeding his clothes, as it was his clothes that were invited and not he.

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

Yes! I just read that. TMK looks at the wider issue, and obviously, I can only say, "Well said!"

arasi
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by arasi »

and 'well-dressed' too!

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by vasanthakokilam »

I recall a post in our forum by a member a few years back. It was about him ( an Indian ) who is a very good guitarist who plays with Indian film music bands narrating his experience visiting a thayagaraja aradhana in the U.S. He wanted to check out the local children and adults singing carnatic music which is what normally happens in such Aradhana throughout the day.

He went in clean Jeans and T-shirt with some funny writing on them ( not too inappropriate ). The jeans might have been a bit worn out. He definitely would have stuck out a bit in that crowd. One of the organizers thought he was inappropriately dressed for the occasion and told him so. He was not asked to leave but he felt very unwelcome. This poster was upset about that along the same lines of this thread and he wondered loudly why the CM elitists seem to be so stuck up on irrelevant things like that.

My reaction at that time was a bit conflicted. While I had some empathy for his reaction, I also had to concede that such a dress would indeed be out of place and while he should not be asked to leave ( which he was not ), the reaction of the organizer is perfectly within normal social expectations that he should be dressed appropriately.

Granted my reaction was probably clouded a bit based on what I knew of him from his postings here. He had a passive aggressive air about him that he knew certain things about music that the CM crowd would not have a clue about ( like chord theory, what makes film music a hit etc. ) and that went along with his general opinions he had about the usual elitism and exclusivity projected by the CM community in general.
You can see what I would have even imagined, with absolutely no basis in actual information, that he probably went there in that dress a bit wantonly and not as innocent as he narrated. Those are strictly circumstantial.

Be that as it may, given the excellent points made in this thread, my general agreement with them and also further reflections of that discussion (it has been a few years, time has a way of smoothing over the raw and knee-jerk emotional edges) I now wonder if it was hypocritical of me to have come to that conclusion then. But then I am not sure even after all that deliberation if such a dress is appropriate for Thyagaraja Aradhana. I probably would not wear that to an aradhana though that is my usual weekend attire.

It is not that difficult for me to side with the liberal attitude 'What is the big deal about the dress, music is still music, is it going to be any less of a respect for Thyagaraja if you are clad in ragged Jeans and T-shirts', I would not be honest with myself if I also do not acknowledge the general discomfort with that.

Interestingly I do not feel the same away about attending a CM concert in Jeans and T-shirt? That seems fine ;)

arasi
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by arasi »

VK,
Lot of self-analysis there! Thanks for sharing. I find it in my life too that when I get carried away (still happens!) with an idea or thought, I need to check myself if I'm reining in my enthusiasm.Every now and then, a reality check about our believing in what we say and practise is essential!

I travel light for practical reasons, and since I wear a sari only 'occasion'ally, I was once caught unawares when I stopped in the UK for a few days, and was part of a celebration. Being the oldest in the gathering, I was asked to do Arathi. I had not packed any saris and felt a bit awkward, wearing salwAr and kurtA!

Freedom in dressing as a participant? Yes! but the comfort zone for participants and the nature of gathering varies. Clean-looking is always agreed upon, but the mode? It's all in our minds and mores, it seems.
Last edited by arasi on 13 Apr 2014, 23:39, edited 1 time in total.

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

But this is about dress codes, and dress codes tend to beyond the normal, ordinary expectations of a normal, ordinary human being. Whereas one might have to enquire the details, for example, whether the head should be covered or not, but I think we all have an idea how to be passable at most of the world's religious houses, regardless of faith.

On the other hand, if my ancestors had had their way, the men or Myalapore would probably be thronging to Mylapore in morning suits, complete with top hat. Absurd for the place, ridiculous for the climate, and nothing whatsoever to do with the culture! That is just the sort of device that my four bears used to separate the men from the boys, or, rather, the in crowd from the out.

Arasi, it's all in our minds ...and more! ;)

clmweb
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by clmweb »

Dress codes in opera houses and concert halls in the west have dramatically relaxed, compared to say 15 years ago, when I started attending. While US has always been more relaxed, even Vienna/Salzburg audiences these days are more informal (and I'm not referring to the standing-room section where anything goes!). I am happy to wear a suit in US/Europe as my visits generally coincide with the colder months. However I have never worn a suit to the San Francisco opera during the hotter months. I have also never worn a suit in Chennai in my life regardless of the occasion, not even for those passport mug shots :D I just do not see the sense in it, and there is nothing dignified in someone perspiring profusely...
-Karthik

Nick H
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Nick H »

It was just a "VIP" game for the managers of the hall and their friends.

Anyway, it is old news now. We can hope that it doesn't happen again, but I don't have any optimism about that particular hall management not repeating its behaviour.

Ranganayaki
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by Ranganayaki »

vasanthakokilam wrote:I recall a post in our forum by a member a few years back. It was about him ( an Indian ) who is a very good guitarist who plays with Indian film music bands narrating his experience visiting a thayagaraja aradhana in the U.S. He wanted to check out the local children and adults singing carnatic music which is what normally happens in such Aradhana throughout the day.

-----
VK, do you always have such deep insight into people who post, or was this poster rather transparent? I am very impressed because as I read your post, a picture formed in my mind, and it was of one specific person, and it formed completely unintentionally!! I wasn't even consciously reminded of this person I know very well, but I am almost certain it is him. I don't know if he is a member, but I am not searching for him, beccause I want to compliment you here and just guess.

Do you remember his name? Would its first three letters, when read alone, sound like a letter of the English alphabet? I don't think anyone else in the world could fit your description better!! :)

varsha
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Re: Not a Concert, but a fancy-dress event for the wealthy!

Post by varsha »

Image

This should settle the debate

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