Sangita Kalanidhi 2014 - who is it this time?

GNB_LGJ_PR · Post by **GNB_LGJ_PR** » 05 Jul 2014, 16:15

Dear Rasikas,

Last year, we all voiced our opinions after the awardee was chosen.
The thought of this forum choosing our Sangita Kalanidhi for 2014 just crossed my mind.

Sachi ji,
Request you to form the rules and conduct this survey.
A starting point could be - each participant gives 3 names of his/her choice in decreasing order of preference.

Cheers,
KK

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 05 Jul 2014, 16:27

Sir I am only a mere functionary ready to execute, guided by the knowledgeable and important rasikas here.
I suggest people like VKV, MKR, Varsha and CRama frame the list. Once the names are proposed we can conduct a survey where everyone can vote on the names and give comments.
Thanks

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 05 Jul 2014, 18:06

I suggest people like VKV, MKR, Varsha and CRama

That's a good idea. Oh, you don't mean for the SK itself!

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 05 Jul 2014, 18:13

Ouch !!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 05 Jul 2014, 18:31

Are we ready to name names yet? Or are we waiting for front end to feed them into?

It's odd how interest in the award, on this forum, seems to have lapsed this year. July is pretty late for us to be starting the process.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 06 Jul 2014, 03:19

I blame it on the futbol world cup!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 06 Jul 2014, 04:53

Kokilam,
World cup or not, I am entertained by all the Google graphics every day!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 06 Jul 2014, 06:30

And Google Now.
And I daresay Parivadini.

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 06 Jul 2014, 08:34

Folks: I vote for Ravi Kiran for his rich contributions to the understanding of Carnatic Music, his scholarship and for his extraordinary performance skills--for the opera that he composed for the Cleveland Festival this year--
I am trying to set up "moles" to "sniff' out the inside story and deliberations.I shall promptly report my 'sleuthing results"!!!

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 06 Jul 2014, 09:00

+1 for Ravi Kiran.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 06 Jul 2014, 09:15

last year Sri KNV wrote that it Ravikiran is a foregone conclusion

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 06 Jul 2014, 09:36

I vote for Ravikiran too, but what of the neglected elders? I think it should be TVG.

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 06 Jul 2014, 13:09

My choice would be the multi faceted ocotogenerian TVG Avl
Thanjavooran
06 07 2014

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 06 Jul 2014, 19:53

I would agree TVG needs to be recognized and honored.But the fact is that the MA folks declared last year when Sudha was anointed that the move -- besides honoring Sudha -- represents a generational shift in MA's thinking to move to younger folks and that Sudha was the torchbearer for the tradition.

So I doubt if TVG's case would be revived.

In any case it is MA's loss in one way -- Not honoring ME with the SK title based on my uncontested claims of pure senility and serendipity!!!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 06 Jul 2014, 20:56

Serendipity is born out of the senility
Of the gods above--as the very quality
Of the boons they grant exemplify--
Let me try and simplify...

Logical conclusions wing it not--
'Ah! A found piece', is it not?
Than, 'I arrived at it' thing?
About it's magic, we sing--

So MKR, we share enough senility among us,
Those of a certain age here on RasikAs--
Serendipity? That's your bounty
On and off CM stage, seventy
Odd years, and I add, how mighty

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 06 Jul 2014, 21:04

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:The fact is that the MA folks declared last year when Sudha was anointed that the move -- besides honoring Sudha -- represents a generational shift in MA's thinking to move to younger folks ...

The whole thing is devalued.

Not that there is anything wrong in honouring younger folk. It is bad that they have been left out in the past, but all this moving-on sort of stuff is just marketing bull.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 06 Jul 2014, 22:02

TVG first, and then Ravikiran, is how I see it.

Agree with you that Sudha's award doesn't mean that it's going to be younger and younger awardees from now on. At least, I hope not. Let them earn it over the years. Ravikiran? He is a senior, if you consider his musical years, and how much more a senior than many seniors he is, in that he has contributed more to CM than several of them put together.

So far, the rasikAs don't seem to be contentious about selecting the candidate! Good

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 06 Jul 2014, 22:04

How many of the previous generation contend for SK realistically?( before Ms. Sudha, to use that arbitrary time frame )

5 or 6? Who are they?

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 06 Jul 2014, 22:05

There is also the question of whether TVG (or VVS for that matter) will accept the award if offered to them now

I am still not over last year's choice! But like everyone else, I can't seem to look away either

VK: others to add to that list would be Karaikudi Mani and Vikku Vinaykram. Although they are both extremely unlikely.

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 06 Jul 2014, 22:26

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 06 Jul 2014, 22:33

Arasi..relax. Chesterton has this to say to comfort you and the likes of us

[/quote] IT is currently said that hope goes with youth and lends to youth its wings of a butterfly; but I fancy that hope is the last gift given to man, and the only gift not given to youth. Youth is pre-eminently the period in which a man can be lyric, fanatical, poetic; but youth is the period in which a man can be hopeless. The end of every episode is the end of the world. But the power of hoping through everything, the knowledge that the soul survives its adventures, that great inspiration comes to the middle-aged. God has kept that good wine until now.[/quote]

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 06 Jul 2014, 22:44

I am still assuming Shri Murali giving it to sudha he only said he has considered the next generation from sudha , I am not sure if it also meant the previous generation is closed . Historically when semmangudi seenu got it in 1947 at the age of 39 many of his seniors also got it bit later.
Before I sleep let me list out the names
1. TV Gopalakrishnan
2. VV Subramaniam
3. Manakkal rangarajan (almost 1 out of 1000 chance)
4. Karaikudi Mani
5. Vinayakaram

A cluster of vidwans/vidushis bit senior to sudha but can also get the award
6. Nagai Muralidharan
7. Mannargudi Easwaran
8. Srimushnam Raja Rao
9. OS Thiagarajan
10. Maharajapuram Ramachandran
11. Tiruvarur Bhakthavatsalam

Finally a list of vidwans/vidushis bit junior or very close to sudha

12. Aruna Sairam
13. Chitraveena Ravikiran
14. Mandolin Srinivas
15. Veena gayathri
My best guess is in the pack of #15 for next 4 to 5 years there will be a sk .If you ask me one choice this year , it can be #12.

I am considering vidwans like NSG,vijaysiva and Sanjay and many more are 16th man and beyond

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 06 Jul 2014, 23:08

Rajesh, mahavishnu, thanks for coming up with the names.

I was thinking along those lines generation-wise, but I tend to think of NSG to be half a generation before Sanjay, vijayasiva, TMK, Sowmya, R&G etc. Does grouping him with Aruna Sairam make sense? I think these two have good chances in the next 5 years.

Not that I know if they are looked favorably by the in-crowd or the politics of the situation, but they seems to be quite visible out there in many different avenues and that seems to matter.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 07 Jul 2014, 00:31

varsha,
You young things, the middle-aged ones! :-!
We have trudged two more decades...

VK,
NSG was so young when I first heard him, and yet I thought of him as someone a bit older (by his music, understanding of it, mannerisms and mien). He was born in 1963, I think. Younger to Aruna...

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 07 Jul 2014, 02:24

To retrieve any semblance of credibility & standards for the title of S.K.of the M.A. THEY BETTER AWARD THE TITLE OF S.K. TO RAVI KIRAN who by ANY STANDARDS HAS ALREADY DONE SO MUCH FOR OUR CULTURE& MUSIC THIS YEAR. VKV :-@

rupavathi · Post by **rupavathi** » 07 Jul 2014, 07:54

It will be Vidushi E. Gayathri this year :-BD

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 07 Jul 2014, 08:00

While I agree that ChitraveeNa Ravikiran is a deserving candidate for the award, he could afford to wait in view of many deserving seniors. Shri TV Gopalakrishnan is well qualified for the award and he is from KeraLa, if regional considerations come into play as in years past. I have always suggested TWO awards every year, one for Vocal and the other for Instrumental . If MA considers this proposal, I would ADD shri VVS and Kanyakumari to the list. One other deserving senior vocalist is Shri OST, who is senior to most other vocalists in the field. Shri Manakkal Rangarajan and Madurai GS Mani, I believe, have been awarded Sangeetha Kala Acharya, a consloation award , that disqualified them for SK award !

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 07 Jul 2014, 09:27

One general observation based on past awardees is that it is not given to people who also dabble in other kinds of music like fusion, cinema, etc., SRI.TVG is probably a victim of that policy. He has contributed to other areas quite a lot. Also kunnakkudi and so on. In the light of this ( if it is a correct observation) the chances of Sri.vinayakaram, smt. Aruna sairam may be thin.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 07 Jul 2014, 10:00

kssr wrote:One general observation based on past awardees is that it is not given to people who also dabble in other kinds of music like fusion, cinema, etc., SRI.TVG is probably a victim of that policy. He has contributed to other areas quite a lot. Also kunnakkudi and so on. In the light of this ( if it is a correct observation) the chances of Sri.vinayakaram, smt. Aruna sairam may be thin.

Yeah right. And Sudha has never dabbled in fusion. :-@
KSSR, I think your theory can be debunked quite easily.

And for the record, frontrunner E. Gayathri (a very likely choice) has come up with some very interesting fusion work, including a cover of Madonna's Papa don't preach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzohSor3B4Y

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 07 Jul 2014, 10:21

rupavathi wrote:It will be Vidushi E. Gayathri this year :-BD

Rupavathi
I wlll include her name too and increase my first list of probable 16 from 15. Tx I forgot her. Considering the vicechancellor and a possible influence of party in power , she indeed has a chance.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 07 Jul 2014, 10:27

Sundara Rajan wrote:While I agree that ChitraveeNa Ravikiran is a deserving candidate for the award, he could afford to wait in view of many deserving seniors. Shri TV Gopalakrishnan is well qualified for the award and he is from KeraLa, if regional considerations come into play as in years past. I have always suggested TWO awards every year, one for Vocal and the other for Instrumental . If MA considers this proposal, I would ADD shri VVS and Kanyakumari to the list. One other deserving senior vocalist is Shri OST, who is senior to most other vocalists in the field. Shri Manakkal Rangarajan and Madurai GS Mani, I believe, have been awarded Sangeetha Kala Acharya, a consloation award , that disqualified them for SK award !

SR Sir
Vidushi AKanyakumari and manakkal rangarajan got the TTK Award not sangeetha kala acharya. You may be right AK can qualify for SK tooo but with that TTK award I am not sure if SK will be given to even TTK awardees.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 07 Jul 2014, 10:37

vasanthakokilam wrote:Rajesh, mahavishnu, thanks for coming up with the names.

I was thinking along those lines generation-wise, but I tend to think of NSG to be half a generation before Sanjay, vijayasiva, TMK, Sowmya, R&G etc. Does grouping him with Aruna Sairam make sense? I think these two have good chances in the next 5 years.

Not that I know if they are looked favorably by the in-crowd or the politics of the situation, but they seems to be quite visible out there in many different avenues and that seems to matter.

When sudha got last year till I bought the souvenir of MA last year i did not know the year of birth of last year awardee. Aruna is more forthcoming in letting us know her year of birth- google yourself . Google yourself to find NSG is few years younger to Aruna but is 1/8th generation in front of Vijaysiva . All the rest are also behind of Vijay(that crowd is immensely SK worthy). I was thinking along with TNS , we have to consider musicians like say OST , Maha Ramachandran in that experience league and NSG being a sishya of TNS can possibly wait .

It is always easy to guess who are the next 7 years awardees , but to guess who is this years sk is only tough.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 07 Jul 2014, 11:02

rajeshnat
Vid.E.Gayathri is not the Principal of Tamilnadu Govt.Music College, Vid is Vice-Chancellor of Tamilzh Music University.

Sangita Kala Acharya of MA is not a consolation honor but is equal in honor with SK according to MA. Semmengudi mama with the knowledge of so many richly deserving Maestros could not be given SK, for some reason or the other, suggested SKA honor to be introduced. It was introduced in the year 1994. At any given point of time/year, as only one can be considered, many Great Maestros were not given SK honor. VVS Sir presiding over annual vardhanti of Dwaram, addressed SSRao, as SK. When SK reminded VVS that he is not SK, pat came his rejoinder that 'engalukellam neengal eppavo Sangita Kalanidhi'. This equally applies to all those Great Maestros who were not honored by MA with SK honor. This was much before the introduction of SKA honors.
If the policy decision of generational shift is strictly to be implemented, Great Maestro Chitraveena Ravi Kiran, is my ONLY choice, Complete personification of all the ideals and practices in Karnatik Music. I would have been happy with his choice and selection as the first recipient under the new policy of honors.

munirao2001

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 07 Jul 2014, 13:43

Let's just look at just the Sangita Kalanidhi title and the discussion here thus far. I see four themes :
1. We respect seniority and a long successful public performing career as the first criterion. This also implies that if someone misses their turn it's a slight or injustice!
2. In case of some outstanding talent and genius, we want MA to skip the seniority logic and recognise the genius in the prime of his/her life.
3. We tend to take it for granted that all talented big name performers will get SK sooner or later.
4. We protest some grave errors of omission but realise there is no foolproof method for choosing the SK awardee since no hard and fast criteria have been laid down.

So, all in all, I feel that MA is doing the best they can under the circumstances! And therefore whomever they choose this year, let's honour the choice at rasikas.org.
What do you say?

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 07 Jul 2014, 14:30

Rsachi

MA has expert committee with set guidelines. The discussions take place on the shortlisted names. The recommendation is given to the Management Committee. Management Committee finally decides and announces. In the past, President's opinion and the influence of Great Maestro (s) did result in the final selection. I am not aware of the recent past (20 years!) and current system and practice.

munirao2001

Karaharapriya · Post by **Karaharapriya** » 11 Jul 2014, 07:28

What about Suguna Purushothaman? I think she would be a possibility.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Jul 2014, 07:34

Isn't she already a Sangeetha Acharya? So, it's unlikely.

Karaharapriya · Post by **Karaharapriya** » 11 Jul 2014, 08:54

arasi wrote:Isn't she already a Sangeetha Acharya? So, it's unlikely.

No, only Suguna Varadachari has won it, in 2010.
http://musicacademymadras.in/fotemplate ... 304891133e

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 11 Jul 2014, 13:40

It just gives a blank screen. I too thought Smt.Suguna Purushottaman is a recipient of SK acharya.

parivadini · Post by **parivadini** » 11 Jul 2014, 17:02

Had an opportunity to be part of the shoot along with Ram with Vid.Suguna Purushotamman, (yes you can look forward to a very exciting carnatic chat shortly)she is the recipient of the "prestigious" vagyakarar award of the MA. So if the same no repetition rule is applied unlikely.

with sincere adigaprasangithanam,
Venkat

parivadini · Post by **parivadini** » 11 Jul 2014, 17:05

Why not Vid. Kanyakumari ? she has dedicated set of students over and above her own works of genius?

Venkat

PS: This is my (venkat)opinion - my employer Parivadini does not endorse nor does not endorse!
PPS: Gawd the stuff you need to do on public forums to be politically correct!!!

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 11 Jul 2014, 18:44

Instead of choice expression based on the random thought(s), it would be better to deeply think on the criteria and make the choice, a choice expressed with the knowledge of justification, if warranted.

My thinking and criteria applied to make my choice are : 1. Musician with proven expertise on all the creative tools in KM-Raaga aalaapna; Tana; Neraval; Svarakalpana; 2. Exhibited vidwath in kalpita aspect and higher potential in kalpana aspect; 3. Higher levels of Lakshaya and Lakshana vidwan with primacy for lakshya jgnanam; 4. Very good knowledge in musicology; 5. Proven growth and development in saadhana from student times to performer, performer to Maestro levels; 5.Top Class grade of AIR; 6. Good teacher-sharing the knowledge and guiding the student (s) to realize their potential and putting them in the right path for achievement; 7. Significant contribution in any of the aspects of Karnatik Music growth and development; 8.Significant contribution for the cause of sampradaya/tradition enrichment; 9. Exhibited talent as either a tune smith or vaggeyakara;10. Good human being, with character, virtues and values.

Chitraveena Ravikiran emerged as a clear and only one choice for this prestigious and most coveted award, Sangita Kalanidhi of MA- Year 2014/15.

munirao2001

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 11 Jul 2014, 20:41

Good analysis munirao 2001. There will of course be more than one who can fulfil all these (may be also including number of foreign tours

and foreign students)

The discussion is not about whom we think is the fittest candidate, because it really does not matter. It is to guess what MA will decide based on the statistics of their past selections. It is a Sherlock Holmes job !! Our discussion is just like "thiNNai pechchu" (a kind of gossip sitting in the courtyard) which can be most interesting. I always like such talk as it will not affect or effect anybody or anything

Let us keep it going. I still think it should be Sri.OST .

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 11 Jul 2014, 20:59

Dear Sri.Muni Rao, EXCELLENT ANALYSIS.....AGREE WITH YOUR CHOICE OF RAVI KIRAN WHO TPWERS ABOUT ANY ONE ELSE. VKV

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 11 Jul 2014, 21:00

braindrain · Post by **braindrain** » 11 Jul 2014, 22:34

varsha wrote:KSG

I second that.

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 12 Jul 2014, 08:25

Dear brother-member, muniraogaru, As our other fellow members wrote your analysis is very good and excellent.

In fact I do not and need not have any objection if the SK award is given to anybody irrespective of anything. But, as usual, I have a doubt in respect of your 6th point ‘Good teacher-sharing the knowledge and guiding the student (s) to realize their potential and putting them in the right path for achievement’. With reference to http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23753 I have found some illogicality and irrationality in the syllabus prescribed by Chi. Chitraveena Ravikiran in ‘acharyanet’ and furnished the details of these important points to avoid taxing the aspirants unnecessarily while learning our music. Like a jaundice-eyed-patient I am unable to find the logicality or the rationality of them and I shall immensely be thankful to you if you kindly show me the logicality and the rationality of the same. amsharma

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 12 Jul 2014, 09:20

I am an ignoramus, but it appeared that he has answered your concerns logically and rationally. He has argued for flexibility and variation, vital in any teaching. Any regimented teaching goes haywire. That apart, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The standard of his students testifies his efficacy.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 12 Jul 2014, 11:50

Dear Sri VKV Sir and Sri M.Akella Sarma garu,
With your acceptance of the criteria of my choice, I am vindicated both on the criteria and the choice. I only wish and hope the MA honors Sri Chitraveena Ravi Kiran, truly a role model for any musician, in any genre of Classical music, inspiring all the other young Great Maestros/Maestros also to continue their saadhana for achieving this most coveted award in due course. Even if they are not honored by MA, the very achievement will receive the appreciation and respect of the rasikas of Karnatik Music, without any doubt.
Sri M.Akella Sarma garu,

The beauty of one of the greatest music genre Karnatik Music and its systems inspires Manodharma. Manodharma in teaching is no exception. Sri Akella Sarma Garu, a Sangita Kala Acharya, you have created 'AMS Easy Methods', which has received acceptance and the students are taking this system to achieve what they are set to, within the confines of the sampradaya, but a well researched and worked out variant with a great promise. Sri Chitraveena Ravi Kiran has also created a system, which has received acceptance and the students are taking this system to achieve what they are set to, also within the confines of the sampradaya, also a well thought out and worked out variant. It will be in the interest and a good cause for the Karnatik Music to reach greater heights of acceptance from the young generations, all over the Globe, excellence in teaching system, like tradition in Karnatik Music, is also established to meet the aspirations of students to serve in various promotional critical aspect of Karnatik Music. To achieve this excellence performer's, teachers and musicologist of great eminence, review all the systems in the past and the present with future in perspective, sans pride and prejudice, openly, critically and systematically. Establish the new system of excellence, with total acceptance, endorsement and its implementation. Yes, for a research scholar and innovator, lack of interest and support, hurts. Continued neglect is depressing. Depression results in temporary perception loss of values in the other systems and practices and even results in rejection and negativity.
My efforts to convince the event managers of the leading Sabhas in Bengaluru to conduct event on 'Teaching Systems and Standardization in Karnatik Music' with seminar, lec-demo and workshop is yet to receive their acceptance and action. I will continue my efforts, with out feeling dejection, in all seriousness and sincerity. Sri Chitraveena Ravi Kiran has already expressed his interest in the discussion to exchange the ideas.

I now strongly feel that to make this happen, why not Musicians, Musicologist, Scholars, teachers and Students come together and conduct this event ? With many Gurus, Musicians having promoted organizations, a federation of all these organizations with patrons, it is eminently possible. This idea has to be discussed. Let us collectively work to achieve the goal, together and with due respect to all the past and present maestros contributions, wholeheartedly.

munirao2001

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 12 Jul 2014, 12:27

We are discussing this as though
The award will not be given from next year onwards
..
Carnatic music is dying ..if not dead....
....
Manodharma is an issue of community development
....
Easy way is the most preferred way
...
There is only one way in music...
Bottomline
SK award will always have the disadvantage of being seen as given to a certain set who never deserved it.
Individual lists may vary that is all.