MODI fying Carnatic music - TMK article !!

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 20 Jul 2014, 12:39

Interesting article in The Hindu today by TMK

http://www.thehindu.com/features/magazi ... 228199.ece

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 20 Jul 2014, 14:43

Love your thread title!

Absolutely not partisan, it doesn't matter who it is, or what party, state or national (or even some other country!), this kind of interference with music reduces it to the level of a TV advertisement.

TMK touches on the point that a lot of music is social, even political. Of course it has its place under the great umbrella of great music. Perhaps what the Americans so wonderfully call brown-nosing was once very much a part of even classical music, when patronage was so vital to the composers and performers, but it isn't now, and even if it is to be done, let it be done intelligently, not trivially.

Perhaps the EC should take a stand on this!

)

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 20 Jul 2014, 16:50

kssr wrote:Interesting article in The Hindu today by TMK

http://www.thehindu.com/features/magazi ... 228199.ece

T M Krishna says in his article: "I don’t think Babasaheb Ambedkar or Periyar were ever thus invoked."

Actually, there is this song in Begada by Thyagaraja that begins "Ee Ve Ra Kula Dhanamu" so one could claim that Periyar was invoked much before his birth!

) [-x

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 20 Jul 2014, 19:12

I understand that they are banning the neetimati song because it goes
Sri Gandhi mathim

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 20 Jul 2014, 19:51

On the occasion of Modi taking over the reins ,I compiled the following songs:

Concert 194-Ab Ki Baar Modi Sarkar'Achche din aane waale hain
Concert details:
001-Barathadesamendru-MSS
002-pArukkullE_nalla_nAdu-valaji-DKP-mahAkavi_bhArathiyAr
003-Ollipaditha Kanninai-MSS
004-Om_namO_nArAyaNA-karNaranjani
005-Namo Namo Raghukula Nayaka by MS Subbulakshmi
006- Narayanathe Namo - Behag – Annammacharya
007-Vazga nee emman-Smt. DK Pattammal
008-mOdDi_jesevElara-khamAs-Ramnad Krishnan-pattAbhirAmaiah
009--ADa mODi_galadE_rAmayya-cArukEsi
010-Idu_Bhagya_Idu_Bhagya-Panthuvarali-TSKPurandaraDasa
011-nambik_keTTavar-hindOLam
012- Modi Aane Wala Hai !! Song by Udit Narayan
013-Sri Rama Pattabhishekam
014-rAmuni_maravakavE-kEdAragauLa
015-MaitrimBhajata-Raagamaalika-Desh-HHCandrasekharaSaraswati
016-ThaayinManikodiPareer-DKP

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Jul 2014, 20:13

Harimau and rsachi,
You both crack me up!

TMK brings to our attention the ridiculousness in the performer who tried so hard (or not) in singing the word mOd (D)i, however far-fetched the meaning of the word and the context.

No big deal, I would say. TMK admits to being amused too by this, and I wouldn't pay any more attention and get worked up about it. How serious is it, compared to the many more atrocities which we witness in the political arena and in the arts too?

Thanks to TMK for revoking the memory of songs about Gandhiji. DKP's virutham 'karam chandra mOhana dAs gAndhi, maNNidAiyE avadarithAr' came back with a number of other songs. The one which still is heard in the concert circuit is 'sAnti nilava vENDum, Atma sakti ONga vENDum'. WHat a relief! We didn't have to sing on his birthday a song which started as 'kAinthu pOna chOLap payir pOlavE' (as the scorched crop of corn) or something similar to uphold him

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 20 Jul 2014, 20:17

mODi jEsEvElarA ?
ADa mODi galadA ?

His name is Shri narEndra 'mOdI' not 'mODi' !

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Jul 2014, 20:18

VKailasam,

Our posts crossed, and I see you have the songs about the mahatma which we adored and 'mODi jEsE vElarA' too!

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 20 Jul 2014, 20:37

NA MO...is the short form of Narendra Modi

kvjayan · Post by **kvjayan** » 20 Jul 2014, 20:53

From some old Tamil magazine report on a concert: Ariyakudi Ramanuja Iyengar was singing "Sri Subramanyaya Namaste" when well known cabinet minister C. Subramaniam entered the hall. Immediately Iyengar switched to "C Subramanyaya Namaste". Folks would have taken it as a comic interlude at the best. I doubt anyone took offence and protested. And nothing prevents the author of the article to sing on Babasaheb Ambedkar or Periyar in his concerts.

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 20 Jul 2014, 21:07

My only feeling was that songs on Mahatma Gandhi should not be grouped with political songs. When they were composed they were National songs.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 20 Jul 2014, 21:08

TMK's mOdal brings out this modiness..umm. madness. It is silly and hope it was more for amusement. Word play is fun though in this case there is a dwitiya akshara prasa problem

as PB points out.

PB, I assume the right way to say the PM's name is close to மோதி ( as in collide ), right?

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 20 Jul 2014, 21:16

Check this at 0.27 and at 1.32 !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uEJLbG7mho

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 20 Jul 2014, 22:10

PB, got it. It sounds a lot more Sanskritish than how Hindi normally sounds to my ears.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 21 Jul 2014, 00:49

Guys, mOdi has suffered the same fate as Hindu and manna de by developing an oft-used variant in many parts of India with d becoming D - mODi, hinDu and manna De.
Just deal with it as you would if moDi, Sorry Modi grew a moustache and dyed it black.

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 22 Jul 2014, 08:11

More of TMK's olaral. He's only getting boring and old and olarifying.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 22 Jul 2014, 09:30

நல்லா மோதிக்கிறாங்க. (nalla mod(h)ikkiraanga.)

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 22 Jul 2014, 11:54

ramamantra wrote:More of TMK's olaral. He's only getting boring and old and olarifying.

Want to correct you, sir. It is oLaral, like kaLLa for thief...hee...hee.

Now there is more pronounciation correction in rasikas than even in literary circles. Good trend, though....

puru00047 · Post by **puru00047** » 22 Jul 2014, 13:01

So, who was that artist who sang these compositions on World Music Day? Hints will do.

puru00047 · Post by **puru00047** » 22 Jul 2014, 13:04

About TM singing about Periyar/Ambedkar: TM maintains throughout the book that emotional abstraction is the intent of art music. And he also focusses on the syllabic meaning of the text rather than th linguistic meaning. On that front, it is quite ironic that this criticism came from. Weren't the compositions taken up for thier sylabic similarity to the word 'Modi"? Did the linguistic meaning matter in the TM context of looking at it?

sirsub11 · Post by **sirsub11** » 22 Jul 2014, 14:29

Kssr, while you are correcting someone else, may I gently correct you ? The word should be 'pronunciation', not 'pronounciation'. Sorry, I couldn't resist that.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 22 Jul 2014, 16:14

Nick..
Ularal..உளரல்
bullshit in English..or non sense..

Any way, it is not Rama Mantra...for chanting..

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 22 Jul 2014, 17:04

sirsub11 wrote:Kssr, while you are correcting someone else, may I gently correct you ? The word should be 'pronunciation', not 'pronounciation'. Sorry, I couldn't resist that.

Txs. I mean Thanks.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Jul 2014, 20:37

And, another correction (see VKailasam's post). Yes, the word is not oLaRal, but uLaRal, whether the above-mentioned article was one or not.

Puru,
True. TMK who has said that lyrics do not matter as much in music, admits to his being affected by them in this article.

kssr,
Rasikas.org does have a lively literary circle, if you are not aware of it! So, hip bone connected to the thigh bone, thigh bone connected to the knee bone, knee bone connected to the leg bone and so on! We do tend to zoom in on typos!

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 22 Jul 2014, 23:28

It is disturbing when music degenerates into puerile expression of political loyalty

Indeed. It is also disturbing when musicians degenerate into puerile expression of political opinions.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 23 Jul 2014, 09:18

Post number 6 above:

Two other songs on Gandhi are:

Gandhi mani mozhi nadappom by MMI composed by Chitti

and:
Gandhi oru parama Ezhai by KBS...

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 23 Jul 2014, 09:56

I too attended a similar concert. The artiste Vid. BharatashAstram JAlrA Panditar took up for expansive singing the raga khamAs, which is an ancient and pure rAga from the pre-SarngadEva tradition. The artiste pointed out, that if you repeat the name of the rAga continuously - kamAs-kamAs-kamAs, it gives you maskA maskA maskA; pointing to the fact that the new regime will convert the nation into a land of butter and money* [corrected typo, should be honey.]

He took up the famous reTTai pallavi composed by Nostradamus [actually a siddha from Tranquebar, called navastrIdhAma] that went as follows -

mOdI jEsEvEla rA! nArimaNI nIkainadI rA narEndra!

Later plagiarist composers from the 18th and 19th century have reused parts of this famous pallavi for their own immoral ditties.

Reliable sources from the Delhi high court say that Fali Nariman has filed a defamation suit against B.J.Panditar as well as NavastrIdhAma siddhar.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 23 Jul 2014, 11:55

Wonder works of conditioned mind and expressions!
TMK has expressed about his displeasure of this 'novelty' in the World Music Day Celebration, the solemn occasion demanding a seriousness and commitment of musicians for the cause of peace, through their music. May be rasikas feeling that in the present times of Peace, elusive and disturbed with violence, 'trivialization' disturbance is also welcome.

Was it puerile- childishly silly and immature- expression ? Govindan Sir
Puru
TMK's primacy for raaga bhaava, aesthetics over saahithy bhaava, aesthetics is in the context of rasaanubhuti in art music. Not anubhuti of akshara prayoga for aesthetic, in the present context. Clarity and Understanding is in relationship.

I once again request and urge all the rasikas of Indian Classical Music to know and understand TMK, as an artist of great merits and sensitive human being, read his 'Southern Music, story of Karnatik Music'. One earns the right to judge and offer criticism/veiled criticism , saahithya bhaava of study, knowledge and experiential, only after reading his offering in the form of his book. With gained insights, knowledge question with logic and reason.

munirao2001

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 23 Jul 2014, 13:01

munirao2001

I completely agree with you...as an artist of great merits and sensitive human being..

He is completely human in nature..

Another of similar nature is Chitravina Shri Ravi Kiran...

There is absolutely no air in their outlook...

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 23 Jul 2014, 15:03

I wonder whether one can express anything about TMK's views only after reading his book or whether their affability precludes our differing from them where occasion demands. Mr. TMK has himself said that to question someone is not to show disregard. The great point about him is he replies to mails addressed to him. I am sure he will not mind criticism with no axe to grind.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 23 Jul 2014, 16:24

kvchellappa
My request for understanding TMK better and correctly through the means of reading his book, is unusual for unusual state with lack of understanding, aggressive and dismissive thoughts of rasikas. Any thinker and writer uses the writing as a means for mass communication of his understanding, realization and sharing of the knowledge acquired through study and research. Values and value additions. In normal state, as you stated the affability with critical assessment, different point of view, disagreement and statement based on logic and reason is suffice.

munirao2001

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 23 Jul 2014, 17:06

Nick
'Olaral' is 'gibberish'-unintelligible or meaningless speech or writing; nonsense. Unsolicited advice.........but, between us OK, No ?

munirao2001

puru00047 · Post by **puru00047** » 24 Jul 2014, 12:09

@muniraoji - I recant my earlier post. It was impulsive. I have finished his book and it was a great experience. I mirror most of his thoughts.

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 24 Jul 2014, 23:49

Was it puerile- childishly silly and immature- expression ? Govindan Sir

muniraoji,
By the word 'Indeed', I have endorsed the view of the author of the article. This is reverse side of the same coin which the author himself was advocating before elections. That is what I pointed out in my comments. If a writer by profession had advocated such fancy ideas, I would be last person to take cognizance. But having built one's reputation on a platform and then using the platform itself as a stepping stone, is abuse of the platform. However, I am not game for any shadow boxing. Bye.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 25 Jul 2014, 17:33

vgovindan Sir,

We are in discussion and exchange of information and at times, sharing the knowledge in this august forum. Nothing, beyond.
Musician is at first human and citizen of the world with given rights to make a success of living. Musician has personal and professional ideals. Personal ideals and conduct reflect in how they realize a fulfilled existence, very purpose of life and living. With clear choice on the roles taken for professional practice, delivery of pleasure to the rasikas and commitment to serve the cause of music and service, recognition and reward determine their fulfillment. Their legacy resulting in enrichment-social life and music, make them a rare individual with contribution and upliftment.
Social behavior and professional behavior should be observed distinctly inline with the ideals, not set belief, not hearsay, not image, not authority. Expression or communication either in the medium of written text or lyric in music is better appreciated and understood by direct reading and listening only, in absence of pride and prejudice.
Artist choosing to be a performer is in the public domain, willingly. While artist communicates on the social issues his observation, understanding and opinion, the expression and meaning should be critically reviewed for acceptance or its rejection. It is best served in direct dialogue/communication for establishing the understanding. The experts in the respective field give considered judgment for the general public to come to conclusion. Similarly in music.
Artist also has equal responsibility to check the facts directly, in dialogue or discussion before going public. To focus on the specific issue of his article published on 'trivialization', TMK could have checked with the event manager(s) his observation, discussed and come to conclusion and shared with public his opinion. Event manager(s) also has the right to give a rejoinder and educate the public/rasikas on this issue.

munirao2001

bhakthim dehi · Post by **bhakthim dehi** » 26 Jul 2014, 15:59

But the question remains unanswered. who was that artist? As mentioned by an another member clues will do..

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 26 Jul 2014, 16:26

bhakthim dehi

Let us, as Rasikas, in appreciation of the event and its management, must condone the aberration of 'trivial', intended for sense of good humor in a solemn occasion like World Music Day Celebration for Peace and end this discussion with the hope that such 'humor' is not desired and welcome in future in public forum.
Also with the understanding the differences in writing in print media- correspondent, reporting; expert/statesman, articles; critic, reviewing; intellectual, observation and opinion. In this instance, it is observation and opinion of an intellectual, in public forum.

Let us, as Rasikas, in appreciation of the self less services in the cause of Karnatic Music, extend our support both to the carnaticamusic, the organization and TMK.

munirao2001

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 26 Jul 2014, 17:21

bhakthim dehi wrote:But the question remains unanswered. who was that artist? As mentioned by an another member clues will do..

வெண்ணையை வைத்துகொண்டு நெய் தேடுகிறீர்! Having Veena at hand, should you look elsewhere for a Carnatic (not Karnatik) presentation?
2.49

devan · Post by **devan** » 27 Jul 2014, 08:56

future sk, acharya,expert committee chairman,padmabushan,world music teacher,the one and only nsg.the acharya crticises singing abhangs in cincerts but his daughter is singing them regularly.long live his musical arpanipu.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 27 Jul 2014, 15:56

bhakthim dehi wrote:... the question remains unanswered ...

(Got it? If not, here is the link. Check at 2.49.)
I am sure you have already got the desired information.
However, the relative link to the programme, uploaded by Paravadi in Youtube, is given here.
The episode referred to by TMK, and discussed further in this thread, starts at 2.69.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS-tA9bksZI

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 27 Jul 2014, 22:33

Oh. It is NSG. I did not guess. It is listed as " special thematic presentation" . Real comedy.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 28 Jul 2014, 08:28

Great and wonderful gossiping!!

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 28 Jul 2014, 09:18

vk,
At least the topic is not gossiping. Those artists who perform for the public - not private audience - have to maintain certain decorum. To make political statements through the medium of music and that too - through tyAgarAja's soulful kRti 'ADa mODi galadE' is inexcusable - it is a mockery of the Saint. And that too in the midst of youngsters?

bhakthim dehi · Post by **bhakthim dehi** » 28 Jul 2014, 09:51

Pratyaksham bala
Ya...I got it. Thanks for your sharp, crisp and point centered post which even appeals to non intellectuals like me.I hope u understand

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 28 Jul 2014, 11:19

As per requests by many members, off topic posts have been quarantined

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 28 Jul 2014, 12:59

I listened to the programme before TMK wrote and did not notice at all that there was a theme and that Modi was the theme. It was a good programme and the music was enjoyable. If one's mind is not sullied, one is attracted to the quality of music. When we carry bias and hate in mind, and a presumed righteousness, which is perverse, one gets all wrong ideas. I agree readily that Modi as theme was avoidable, but the outburst had axe to grind.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 30 Jul 2014, 19:43

Was casually searching for TMK and NSG, and came across a limited liability company inc in the USA named 'TMK NSG LLC' !!

carnatricks · Post by **carnatricks** » 04 Aug 2014, 00:50

i just saw the video. first nsg singing adaMODIgalade with an introduction followed by sri ramakrishna murthy singing enthavedukondu i guess for chinthadeerchuta kentaMODIra and sri rithvik raja singing MODIjesevelera (dont know the other singer). i see the point of the article now. like sri tmk said looks like music has been trivialised.

nivedita · Post by **nivedita** » 08 Aug 2014, 02:13

On behalf of Shri Shashikiran:

-------------
Dear rasikas,

First off, I owe you my deep gratitude for the fabulous response to Bhakti Sangeet Utsav. It was quite a challenge coordinating the event on the phone, being as I am now on a concert tour of the UK—but my team in Chennai did me proud by doing a great job! The theme for this year was Sarvam Shri Krishnarpanam. I hasten to clarify that the theme refers to the Lord Krishna, lest we offend anyone or be accused of trivialising Carnatic music.

Carnatic music has been receiving plenty of negative attention lately in the media due to allegations of it being a casteist art form and the purported politicisation of a music performance on World Music Day. I write this response not as the organiser of the World Music Day celebrations and certainly not because I feel the need to defend myself or the rest of the Carnatic music community, but as a passionate lover of Carnatic music, as a musician who is indebted to the art and as an event organiser who works constantly on innovative ideas to constructively promote Carnatic music.

So the World Music Day celebrations lasted about 12 hours and was a coming together of the entire music community—musicians, organisers, rasikas and students—to celebrate the joy of music. For the musicians, it was a day of giving back to the art; for the rasikas, it was an opportunity to listen to many of their favourite musicians perform together and in varied settings; for the students, it was an opportunity to perform and interact with musicians; and for the organisers, a day to bring out some of the many, many positives about Carnatic music:

· Musicians of all statures coming together to do group performances
· Performing on a number of different themes within the scope of Carnatic music
· Performing in a popular city mall, thus taking music to the masses
· Bringing together about 300 students from city schools to participate and perform

Songs were presented on a number of different themes on the day, including nature and the nation. This compilation on ‘mODi’—presented incidentally, amongst others, by students of the musician who has written about it—was made in lighter vein. It lasted probably 12 minutes out of the 12 hours and for the musicians who performed it and the audience, was just one of the many performances. So no extra attention was given to it and no one discussed it afterwards. Sadly, these 12 minutes have been highlighted, with no mention of the rest of the event and all the positives associated with it!

Everyone who knew Telugu understood that the songs had the word ‘mODi’ in different contexts and wasn’t the same as our Prime Minister’s surname ‘mOdi’! It was pure wordplay done with a good sense of humour and no one had trouble recognising that. The songs, of course, were rendered with absolutely no compromises on the classicism front—the video will vouch for that. In fact, such wordplay is not new to Carnatic music; giants like Ariyakudi have set the precedent (he sang 'C Subramanyaya Namaste' when politician Shri C. Subramaniam walked into his concert).

If there had been any political leanings at all, be assured there would have been much more media attention. Santhanagopalan sir or I could have been composed a song on the Prime Minister and sent it to the PMO and, needless to say, given special mention in the pre-event press conference. On the contrary no mention of the ‘mODi’ compilation was made in the conference or after the performance itself—by the organisers or the musicians. In fact, incessant writing about Shri Narendra Modi has been from other quarters, not ours. So surely raising a hullabaloo about the politicisation of Carnatic music where none was intended (and taking up the cudgels against NSG sir) is unwarranted and unnecessary? If one did not like the theme or wanted to register one's protest, all that was needed to be done was to call us and discuss the matter.

As far as the allegations about Carnatic music being a casteist art form are concerned, let's consider the nadaswaram which has been performed traditionally by 'non-brahmins'. Did the brahmins prevent the non-brahmins from playing their instrument in temples or even in brahmin marriages? The answer is a resounding no. Brahmin marriages are, in fact, incomplete without the nadaswaram. On the other hand, brahmins don't usually play the nadaswaram. Is this because the non-brahmins have kept us away from the instrument? The short answer is no. The long answer is that the nadaswaram has been traditionally played by the non-brahmins and has simply remained that way. If we want brahmins to play the instrument, we must put in our consolidated efforts towards that end.

In universities and colleges teaching Carnatic music, the majority of students are indeed non-brahmins. In addition, several musicians have made efforts to take Carnatic music to corporation schools. If we want to bring more non-brahmins into the art, again--we must put in more consolidated effort towards that end.

From my end, if I'm made aware of dalits or non-brahmins who have the requisite talent, I will be delighted to provide them opportunities. In fact, I have just finished a few workshops in London, where most of the students were non-brahmins. There was no discrimination against them; at the end of an 8-day workshop they performed a full concert, including a ragam-tanam-pallavi that I taught them with all intricacies including anulomam, tisram and pratilomam.

Finally, I’d like to say--as musicians who have been fortunate enough to gain prominence in the field and to have others look up to us as role models, read our writings eagerly and be influenced by our opinions, it is our responsibility to use that capacity to do good to Carnatic music and our people, to promote the art positively and to contribute constructively to its growth. Carnatic music is already an art with a niche following, and negative publicity will not do it any favours. Rather than focusing on the ‘negatives’, let us work with each other, as part of the fraternity, in acting positively and constructively, for the good of Carnatic music.

Actions, not allegations, are the need of the hour.

-K.N. Shashikiran

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 08 Aug 2014, 07:27

Dear brother-member, K.N.Shashikiran, I feel very glad to go through your enlightening post and observe the following:

‘as musicians who have been fortunate enough to gain prominence in the field and to have others look up to us as role models, read our writings eagerly and be influenced by our opinions, it is our responsibility to use that capacity to do good to Carnatic music and our people, to promote the art positively and to contribute constructively to its growth. Carnatic music is already an art with a niche following, and negative publicity will not do it any favours. Rather than focusing on the ‘negatives’, let us work with each other, as part of the fraternity, in acting positively and constructively, for the good of Carnatic music.

Actions, not allegations, are the need of the hour.’

I Appreciate you sincerely for writing all the above. I am not at all against any musician and need not also be at this fag end of my life. I am against the harmful acts of the individuals only. They may have done so knowingly or un-knowingly. But, due to these harmful acts much harm is done to our kids and that must immediately be stopped. In this process all must sit together and discuss to do things logically and rationally to make all our actions positively and constructively. I am ready to walk along with you all and do the needful for the betterment of our kids, their parents and our society at large. I wait to hear from you again positively. amsharma