tODi

meena · Post by **meena** » 11 Nov 2006, 00:01

Deleted

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 11 Nov 2006, 23:08

Please d/l

http://www.rogepost.com/dn/rhnm

I am sorry the speech is kannada.

Also d/l

http://www.rogepost.com/dn/ta7t

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Nov 2006, 00:50

Dear Rc
Could you kindly post the lyric?
Thanks

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 12 Nov 2006, 02:11

RC avare,

mAtADuttiruvudu yAru? Is it channakeshavan?

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 12 Nov 2006, 02:12

R.S.Nandakumara?

meena · Post by **meena** » 12 Nov 2006, 05:03

RC enjoys keeping us in suspense hee hee

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 12 Nov 2006, 12:02

matu is from Vid.R.S.Nanadakumar S/o Prof. R.Satyanarayana.

CML, lyric was already covered under JCW thread.

mahArAja jayachAmarAja oDeyar kRuti

|| mAtaMga kanyAM ||

rAga: shuddhatODi ; KaMDatripuTa tALa

|| pallavi ||

|| mAtaMga kanyAM manasAsmarAmi ||
|| marakata maNimayAMgeeM mEchakAMgeeM ||pa||

|| anupallavi ||

|| mArtAMDasannibha prabhAsahitAM ||
|| mANikyaveeNA shObhitAM lalitAM ||
|| mAtRukA svaroopAM AryAM madana vairi mAnasa nilayAM shreevidyAM||a||pa||

|| charaNa ||

|| bhadrAM chidagnikuMDa saMbhootAM ||
|| bhaMDAsurAdi daitya mathananiratAM ||
|| bhadrAdi navadEvee saMpoojitAM ||
|| bhavabhayaharaNa shaktiyutAM parashivakAMtAM ||
|| mudrAtOShitAM madAlasAM shuddha tODirAga mOditAM shAMtAM ||cha||

May be i should post it under a separate thread on R.S. Nanadakumar and post some more of his exquiste rendering.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Nov 2006, 12:22

Thanks RC
This was completely discussed by DRS just about an year ago and my memory had faded!

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 14 Nov 2006, 00:27

Thanks RC,
Very nice voice and beautiful tODi

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 14 Nov 2006, 00:47

Rajachandra avare,

Thanks for the upload in shuddha tODi;

Are there any tODi kritis that were supposed to be sung in this flavor of shuddha tODi ?

-Ramakriya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 14 Nov 2006, 00:53

Does anyone want a summary of the speech in Kannada? If so, I can do a translation and post it later in the day.

It clearly brings out the difference between tODi, and shuddha tODi.

-Ramakriya

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 14 Nov 2006, 01:00

Ramakriya,
I can understand to some extent. It will be nice if you post the translation.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 14 Nov 2006, 01:26

Ramakriya, yes, please do.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 14 Nov 2006, 01:29

Suji Ram wrote:Ramakriya,
I can understand to some extent. It will be nice if you post the translation.

Here is a summary of what Sri R S Nandakumara says

I don't think there is a need to tell this to this elite audience; But because of a request, I will describe a little about the rAga shuddha tODi. shuddha tODi is the original form of present day tODi. In ancient times, tODi was was sung without panchama. Later on, this rAga transformed into janatODi ,with the use of sparing use of panchama svara. We find the rAga janatODi in Subbarama dikshitar's Sangeeta Sampradaya Pradarshini. SD has also given a has given a prabandha of Venkatamakhi in this rAga. Later on with 72 mElakartha scheme (meaning sampURnA mELa scheme), panchama was added as a true note, making it a sampUrNa rAGa giving rise to hanumatODi, as the 8th mELakarta. Thus shuddha tODi is the original form of current day tODi. This rAga can be sung in gandhAra, madhyama and dhaivata ( I presume he means with any of these swaras as graha). This is a naya rAga and the svaras ga, ma and da do not take very strong gamakas and should be sung mildly.

The mild gamakas can be clearly observed in the AlApane as well as the kriti rendition which Rajachandra has uploaded.

But a question - The SSP version on guruguha.org does not have this prabandha of Venkatamakhi - Any clues?

-Ramakriya

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 14 Nov 2006, 02:05

Thanks Ramakriya for that enlightening translation!
What is the relationship of shubhapantuvarali (Hindustani tODi) to CM tODi (other than the use of prati madhyamam)?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 14 Nov 2006, 02:16

cmlover wrote:Thanks Ramakriya for that enlightening translation!
What is the relationship of shubhapantuvarali (Hindustani tODi) to CM tODi (other than the use of prati madhyamam)?

nishadam
toDi has N2
SB -N3

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 14 Nov 2006, 02:20

Oh yes!
45 = 8+36 +1

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 14 Nov 2006, 10:24

Given this explanation, is Era napai (varnam) in Janathodi since the Pa is used very sparingly?

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 14 Nov 2006, 12:49

Possibly - And the varNa saraguna gAvumu seems to be shuddha tODi..

-Ramakriya

kaapi · Post by **kaapi** » 14 Nov 2006, 20:06

Should we merge this and similar other threads to the mela raga thread ?

SangithaRasika · Post by **SangithaRasika** » 14 Nov 2006, 21:39

Also, I have noticed MMI singing Taaye Yashode with swaras where he doesnt sing Pa at all !! I presume most of MMIs Taaye Yashoda does not have Pa ! Also, I have noticed his aalapanai for Taaye yashoda is different from other todis he sings. (probably the lack of Pa in the aalapanai too ?)

SR

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 14 Nov 2006, 22:14

mohan wrote:Given this explanation, is Era napai (varnam) in Janathodi since the Pa is used very sparingly?

Era nApai has no Pa in all the ciTTaswarAs

hsuvarna · Post by **hsuvarna** » 15 Nov 2006, 01:19

This is one of the biggest confusions between HM and CM for me.
HM Todi = CM Pantuvarali

CM Todi = HM Bhairavi?? Can please someone enlighten this? If so,
what is CM Bhairavi?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 15 Nov 2006, 01:21

I thought HM bhairavi was CM sindubhairavi

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 15 Nov 2006, 01:26

hsuvarna wrote:This is one of the biggest confusions between HM and CM for me.
HM Todi = CM Pantuvarali

CM Todi = HM Bhairavi?? Can please someone enlighten this? If so,
what is CM Bhairavi?

HM Todi = CM shubhapantuvarali

There is no equivalent for our Bhairavi in Hindustani.

-Ramakriya

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 15 Nov 2006, 04:56

Suji Ram wrote:Era nApai has no Pa in all the ciTTaswarAs

Actually the version I have learnt has some instances of Pa in the chitta swaram.

Also, listen to MLV's version http://www.sangeethapriya.org/~asokan/C ... -%20Oct26/

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 15 Nov 2006, 08:48

There is no equivalent for our Bhairavi in Hindustani.

-Ramakriya

Bhairavi is an ancient raga, isn't it? Is there a way to discern if what the anicent texts talk about is closer to HM bhairavi or CM bhairavi? ( sorry for the digression )

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 16 Nov 2006, 14:40

I was under the impression there was no tODI in HM!! :S

vrbadri · Post by **vrbadri** » 16 Nov 2006, 20:59

CM TODi = HM Bhairavi (ONLY Scalewise eqvt. gamakas are totally different!!!)
HM Bhairavi does not have bhASAMga svaras that CM Sindhu bhairavi has. The closest equivalent of CM Sindhu bhairavi in HM is Sindhi bhairavi and NOT bhairavi.
HM TODi = CM SubhapantUvarALi
CM Bhairavi has no HM equivalent and rightly so!

It is surprising that out of various pairs of HM and CM rAgas that have the same scale and almost the same movements, only a few share similar names....
HM BhUpAli tODi = CM bhUpAlam (s r2 g p d1 s- s d1 p g r2 s) (scalewise and 'movement'wise equivalent)
HM Haunsadhvani= CM Hamsadhvani (scalewise and 'movement'wise equivalent)
just to name a few.....

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 17 Nov 2006, 00:46

vasanthakokilam wrote:Bhairavi is an ancient raga, isn't it? Is there a way to discern if what the anicent texts talk about is closer to HM bhairavi or CM bhairavi? ( sorry for the digression )

Although I havent checked thoroughly, in almost all of the earlier texts in mELa period, bhairavi is listed as under srIrAga mELa and hence is perhaps closer to CM bhairavi rather than HM. Later texts (like sangIta sudha) assign it to its own mela but do observe it uses the swaras of srIraga mELa.

Of course as I have said before, texts earlier than the mELA period are hard to correlate.

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 17 Nov 2006, 01:04

vrbadri wrote:HM Bhairavi does not have bhASAMga svaras that CM Sindhu bhairavi has.

Not exactly .. Even though it is possible to sing HM bhairavi without the anyaswaras, it is customary to use the anyaswarasa rather than not use them.

The following is from Rajan Parrikar's article in sawf.org

Although Bhairavi is a major league Raga, it stands apart from other Ragas of like stature in one important way: its use of all 12 swaras, a signal feature of the Bhairavi praxis. The five vivAdi swaras that are not members of the original set are implemented judiciously, without injury to the basic Raga-swaroopa.

The very 'pure' format of bhairavi is almost non-existent, with even dhrupads using it, says Sri Jha in one of the clips in this article. He saya Sindh(i) bhairavi uses anya swaras for N and R; (thus implying no anya swaras for G, D and M).

The entire article can be read at http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit05132002/musicarts.asp

-Ramakriya

vrbadri · Post by **vrbadri** » 18 Nov 2006, 01:19

RAmakriya:
Thanks for the link. Pt. Jha does say that HM Bhairavi is a 'prAcIna' raga and was originally equivalent in scale to CM tODi and he then goes on to saying how the remaining 5 svaras came into usage...! Pretty interesting!

Hearing that I was reminded of the behAg argument wherein both the madhyamas are juxtaposed.....I have heard it both in Sindhubhairavi of CM and in CM behAg.... recently Smt. SudhA ragunAthan did (to the best of my knowledge!!!) use both the madhyamas contiguously in the rAgamAlika part of RTP-HEmavati for rAga behAg (This was in her concert at Atlanta this month).

-Badri.

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 18 Nov 2006, 09:44

vrbadri, I'm sure it was quite beautiful to hear.

mahesh33 · Post by **mahesh33** » 03 Feb 2007, 21:23

Does anybody have a version of "Raave Himagiri", that they would strongly recommend?

vasya10 · Post by **vasya10** » 04 Feb 2007, 02:49

Of the contemporaries, TMK has sung a Syama Shastri's svarajati in a cassette. Of the past masters, SSI has sung it.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 04 Feb 2007, 08:53

http://file.uploadr.com/c74e
here is one by
PSN-MC-RAGHU

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 16 Feb 2007, 04:39

Here's a rendition by Dr Rajkumar:
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/zJI ... As1NMvHdW/

The short alapana is quite impressive. He must have had good classical training.

SangithaRasika · Post by **SangithaRasika** » 16 Feb 2007, 06:22

As far as I know Dr.Rajkumar did not undergo any classical training
SR

mahesh33 · Post by **mahesh33** » 16 Feb 2007, 08:51

I've always thought Dr. Raj was miles ahead in voice modulation, classicism and emotion of renedition among singers who dabbled in both movie/carnatic music...KJY/Unnikrishnan etc. Some of the raga sangathis he sings in his songs are truly marvellous....hard to imagine that he never had any formal classical music training. He never manipulated his mouth ....hence, perhaps his voice and his sounds were both pure and pristine. Also, his pronunication of sahitya was topnotch. I'd bet that if he ever tried to sing Vatapi, there was no chance of hearing "Vaadapi"...

!

ninjathegreat · Post by **ninjathegreat** » 16 Mar 2007, 06:32

Ah! Had to search this out. I was listening to Kumara Ettendra's Gajavadana in Todi. So is this also in Janatodi? Panachamam seems to be used sparingly in the renditions I have heard... But what a heavenly chittasvaram!!! (Thanks to mohan for getting me addicted to it... his comment on the gamakas did it...

)

I think that the RTP/RTKs by the masters have brought out the best in Todi... RTPs SSI, MDR, MLV, GNB, RAjarathinam Pillai and MMI... and an RTK by Alathur Brothers (Bharathi Mamava)... These are the a collection of the best rendition of Todi I've heard... The krithis are majestic, but nowhere as majestic as the RTPs...

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 16 Mar 2007, 07:16

...
one could add Karaikurchi , TNK ,MALI, KSG,Somu,KVN,Nednuri, BVR -BVL ,MLV.To the list

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 16 Mar 2007, 10:50

MLV's Emi Jesithe brought out by Sony Nad - one of the best I've heard...ditto for Alathoor Brothers' effort for Dasukovalena. What about favourite krithis? Mine:

Emi Jesithe
Chesinadella
Kaddanuvariki
Thaye Yashoda
Rave Himagiri Kumari

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 16 Mar 2007, 11:13

Mine:

rAvE himagiri
brindAvana lOla
munnu rAvaNa
kamalAmbikE
dAkshAyaNi
shri venkaTEsham

And a new entrant to list thanks to Coolkarniji: sadA nI pAdayugamulanu

Picking favorites in tODi is not easy

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 16 Mar 2007, 11:53

mahesh33 wrote:I've always thought Dr. Raj was miles ahead in voice modulation, classicism and emotion of renedition among singers who dabbled in both movie/carnatic music...KJY/Unnikrishnan etc. Some of the raga sangathis he sings in his songs are truly marvellous....hard to imagine that he never had any formal classical music training. He never manipulated his mouth ....hence, perhaps his voice and his sounds were both pure and pristine. Also, his pronunication of sahitya was topnotch. I'd bet that if he ever tried to sing Vatapi, there was no chance of hearing "Vaadapi"...!

;

Contrary to the ideas expressed here, Dr. Raj did have some training in classical music. He came from theater where every artist was expected to be a singer. That has had a great influence on his singing.

These days Udaya TV is airing interview of Parvatamma - She has mentioned several times that her father was a music teacher, and he had taught Rajkumar too.

I heard a very nice Sri Chamundeshwari (bilahari) which he sang during a navarAtri celebration (extempore) a couple of years ago on TV. Even though the age was showing up, that had no signs of being from a film background singer

-Ramakriya

Nandy · Post by **Nandy** » 16 Mar 2007, 21:58

Suji,

As far as I have learnt, as you say, HM Bhairavi = CM Sindhubhairavi
HM Bhairav = CM Mayamalavagoulai

mahesh33 · Post by **mahesh33** » 17 Mar 2007, 07:15

Ramakriya avare,

My post was pure conjecture, based upon the carnatic leanings in his music...I have no idea whether he in fact had any training or not.

"Contrary to the ideas expressed here, Dr. Raj did have some training in classical music. He came from theater where every artist was expected to be a singer. That has had a great influence on his singing....."

just because he is able to sing doesn't necessarily mean he underwent classical training. Another point I have heard oft mentioned by people in the passing is that he did undergo classical training starting only from age 55....I have no idea if this is accurate or not. Also, whereas I am convinced of the carnatic leanings in his music, I dont think he had any pretensions to being a carnatic musician (like KJY or Unni)...other than dabbling in it to reap the benefits for the BhAvageethes and dasarpada;s he put out in his albums.... Dr Raj has never given a carnatic concert, thankfully. He is a singer who to my mind was absolutely aware of his strengths and also his limitations.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 18 Mar 2007, 09:03

mahesh,

I agree that just because he was able to sing classical songs does not mean he underwent training. My statement was based on Parvatamma's interview where she said her father was a music teacher, and he taught Raj kumar as well. Now I am definitely not aware of the extent of training he had from his father-in-law.

I too think he never gave any kacheri as such.

I have heard that he took some training in hindustani music for sometime later in his life - but do not know if it's authenticity.

-Ramakriya

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 22 Mar 2007, 05:00

ninjathegreat wrote:Ah! Had to search this out. I was listening to Kumara Ettendra's Gajavadana in Todi. ...

Can someone point me or post a version of Gajavadana? I have only heard one version by Sowmya and that was a while ago. I would like to hear those famous gandharams clearly in a well-recorded rendition that is good enough to learn from. I have heard Sriram Parsuram say in a lec dem posted on Sangeethapriya that the great T. Viswa has analyzed the gandharams in this kriti. If anyone has a rendition either by T. Viswa or by Sriram could you post?

Thanks much
Then Paanan

meena · Post by **meena** » 22 Mar 2007, 05:12

thenpaanan

Sree SSI version:
DELETED

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 22 Mar 2007, 06:57

meena wrote:thenpaanan

Sree SSI version:
http://tinyurl.com/3affxp

Meena

Thanks very much indeed! I was expecting to get a response in days or weeks, not minutes!

That was a great rendition by Sree SSI, though I would have personally preferred it a tad slower. The chittai swarams are very clearly recorded though my work is not going to be easy to figure out all the different gandharas that occur! The initial pallavi line is hard to make out very clearly because the line hovers around the aadhara shadja and the sruti is low as well. It is a grand kriti and I wonder if any musician has ever opened a concert with this kriti.

Are there other such kritis in this or other ragas that bring out the different shades of a single swara?

Thanks again!

Then Paanan