Etiquette and Presentation in Indian Classical Music.

[ganesh_mourthy]

This is one gripe that I have been wishing to write for sometime, but thought there are things which does not require comment and left better unsaid. But, the presentation and the personal way of carrying can be considered personal as long as it is within the four walls. But, when on a public stage one entails to be discussed threadbare, there is no choice and one cannot have the choice of just to perform , take the money and fame and go unscathed. So , this is OK to write in rasikas I feel though this is tangential from the music discussion.

I have had a lot of friends who showed interest slowly to carnatic , a slow one from the popular and other jazzes. Lakshman ji has been very very kind enough to give me the notations and lyrics whenever my friends learn a krithi and it helps in adding adding sangathis. But the popular music is always riveting to the uninitiated , especially because of the quality of sound , presentation, popularity, easy connection, et al.So the transition will take time. One cannot expect that always in Carnatic and Hindustani music stages - sometimes the performer have to go through the pain of singing on an unevenly arranged school benches with just a jamakkaalam on top . Of course the audience will not feel it.

But what irks even me is when the vocalists spend few many minutes often clearing throat, or sometimes throughout the concert - a statement made perhaps to say that their sincerity in spite of being under the weather. This is not limited to Carnatic but also to Hindustani Music. It was a while ago when I went to a concert of a famous musician ( name withheld) in ( place also withheld ) and I should say I was too embarrassed for having brought with me a zealous group of uninitiated youths. The singer spent the first few minutes clearing (the) throat with a bit of singing. And at one point even apologized for not able to deliver the usual music. However it was terrible even to watch, let alone listen. I would suggest at such time the singer should refrain from singing at all. I have observed this throat clearing and several other noises are so obtrusively produced in both the system , and sometimes the more unabashedly if you are a veteran and established singer. I have never seen an opera singer or western classical singer doing such things even if it is for an hour of high pitch singing. Though I am ready to make allowances for the extraordinary facial gestures during singing and it is basicically the way the years of practice is to be blamed ( but definitely possible to avoid if disciplined from the beginning) , I find it hard to digest that voice warming on the stage. If any artiste is suffering from such unfavourable voice I think he or she should warm up for a while before singing on stage.

I even remember my guru's fond memories of one of his yesteryear fav musician " mothal 20 nimishathukku kuralum shruthiyum sagikkaadhu apporam konjam konjama sariyaayidum. " = " the first 20 min would be terrible voice and pitch and it mellows slowly".
I used to think " Oh OK ! come early , do 20 min warm up behind the stage and come on stage" but of course to my Guru I cannot think aloud.

GaneshMourthy.

[VK RAMAN]

Musicians keeping their voice clear and throat warmed up is a continuous process. One cannot cancel or postpone their performance as the organizers put in lot of efforts to stage the event.

[vasanthakokilam]

There is a procedure that flute players can follow to 'warm up'/relax the muscles and jaws involved so they get a good tone right from the start. I learned this from a western flute teacher on You Tube and it indeed produces great results. During that exercise, the sound produced is not intended to be musical so the artist would have to do that in the green room. I do not know if any CM flutists do that or not. If they do not, I can see why the sound is not as smooth as desirable during the first few minutes of the concert.

I wonder if there are similar exercises for a vocalist so all the issues ganesh_mourthy mentions are minimized.

[arasi]

Interesting thread...

We frown upon mic sounds and criticize them, but throat clearing (particularly the loud kind) can be a bit annoying. One or two yesteryear vocalists have considered them to be part of their music presentation, it seemed!

A bit of warming up before getting on stage might help.Long ago, I remember reading that clearing the throat, if anything, worsens the voice! True? I don't know.

Yes, a thin jamakkALam on uneven benches is almost cruel!

The latest I observe, especially among juniors, is after they have settled down on stage, cupping their mouth with a hand, almost carrying on a conversation, just when we are ready and focused to hear them!

Another thing is joining their hands :namaste: ever so often in the middle of their singing to greet VIPs as they enter. Then, the audience do their bit--by turning their heads towards the one who has made the entrance!

Intolerant may be I am, but patrons(?) in the center of the the first row having a tete-a-tete as if they are meeting for ~o) not facing each other, but their chatting with their heads coming together as if a puppet show is part of the concert, really is irksome :-@ :-@

[Nick H]

At least instrumentalists arrive on the stage with their instruments approximately tunes and, give or take an awkward tanpura, have only to make fine adjustments.

I may have been doing them a great wrong, but with Hindustani instrumentalists, I used to imagine the half hour that they spent chatting, enjoying their sandwiches and beverages, and generally taking it easy in the green room before taking their instruments out of their cases and beginning the long task of adjusting sooo many strings on the stage, after starting time. And then doing a sound check.

Hey, I'm just an old grump. I love music, I love live music, I love concerts, I love the concert experience --- and maybe the minor irritations are all part of the experience

[vasanthakokilam]

Another thing is joining their hands :namaste: ever so often in the middle of their singing to greet VIPs as they enter. Then, the audience do their bit--by turning their heads towards the entrance!

Yep, they should stop doing that. That is quite distracting.

They can substitute that with a very similar gesture but with a different intent when they sing the signature 'thyagaraja' part of thyagaraja songs. The audience can also do their bit by turning inward and remember thyagaraja in that moment. I have seen MSS and Suguna Purushottaman do that on a couple of occasions. May be others do it also, I have to pay attention.

[arasi]

VK,
Aishwarya does, like her great grandmother!

[VK RAMAN]

Luckily there are no mUkkupodi artists any more!!!

[ganesh_mourthy]

What is that mukkupodi artiste VK Raman? Did they use it one stage really?

[VK RAMAN]

I have seen some artists in the 50s-60s using mUkkupodi on stage.

[munirao2001]

In Indian Classical Music, even though the 'gayaka doshas' are identified in theory, it is strictly not in practice thanks to idolatry. Until such time artist achieves the popularity, every thing is taken note critically. Very same minds either do not take notice or even extol the aberrations as unique acts in creativity! when the artist achieves the popularity and status of worship. This applies only to male artists, with very few exceptions to the female artists. When compared to past masters, the present generations(two) artists are very disciplined and mindful, with very few exceptions. Did not we tolerate drunken misbehavior? leave alone 'snuff' inhalation. Now also few artists indulge but in very discreet manner. With opportunities overseas, artists are highly conscious of behavior and presentation in the present times. Visual appeal which was the concern of women artists now it is equally the concern of male artists.

munirao2001

[kittappa]

Ariyakkudi was a mUkkuppoDi sni(u)ffer on stage and so was Semmangudi.

[sureshvv]

It is only these peccadilloes that remind us that these artistes are only human but for the unique gift bestowed on them. Seen in this light, I find that partaking in their music becomes even more enjoyable. When the artiste on stage loudly blows their nose in front of the mike, my (unsolicited) advice to ganesh_mourthy would be to focus his mind on the unhindered music that will soon follow

[ganesh_mourthy]

Suresh VV , well not all the genres of musicians would do that and it is certainly gaffe. Say for instance MS was one such person who could carry herself so humbly on stage and then also be able to give unhindered music throughout.

Munirao , I agree that these days musicians are quite conscious of it than yesteryears', especially because also of the innumerable videos taken .

[sureshvv]

1. Using MS as the yardstick is bound to result in disappointment.

2. Part of the expectation of creative, improvisational music is that the artistes let themselves go. Expectations of Etiquette and Presentation may be inimical to this.

[arasi]

1: Yes!
2: Well, to practitioners of CM, it's not hard to follow some pleasant manners (after all, they are used to how one behaves while in a temple--well, most of them).

Not that I have seen an artiste belch loudly in a concert! Still, I was shocked to see a well- dressed man in a temple who spat in a quiet spot 'within' the temple. I couldn't help raising my voice and say "nallA uduthiTTu vandirukkInga sAmi kumbiDa. kOYilukku uLLayE tuppaRIngaLE? nyAyaMA?" "thapputhAnunga" he muttered and left ("you have come to the temple so well attired, and you spit within its precincts? Is it fair?" He said, "I agree.That was not right").

I know, suit and tie are not a corporate thing any more. Still, it is expected that a stage presentation of western music sticks to the old rules of etiquette (and I am not a stuffed shirt).

Decorum on the part of those who sit on stage for all to see is still a pleasing thing for the audience to experience. With all the sign language we witness from almost all on stage these days (!)--what else? 'raise the volume!' has also become a concern for etiquette: how often, how politely, glumly, almost angrily they do it! That too after knowing that in some venues, the sound people are as clueless as I am to adjust the sound!

I know, we listeners need to overcome our sensitivity to unimportant distractions. On their part, the artistes have to try and engage us in their music from the very start...

[sureshvv]

1: Yes!

Still, I was shocked to see a well- dressed man in a temple who spat in a quiet spot 'within' the temple. I couldn't help raising my voice and say "nallA uduthiTTu vandirukkInga sAmi kumbiDa. kOYilukku uLLayE tuppaRIngaLE? nyAyaMA?" "thapputhAnunga" he muttered and left ("you have come to the temple so well attired, and you spit within its precincts? Is it fair?" He said, "I agree.That was not right").

Nice!

Hope you can do some of that over your December visit here. I am sure there will be plenty of opportunity, may be even right in front of the Music Academy gate

[ganesh_mourthy]

I agree to what you say Arasi . It is equally their part to immerse us whilst they get immersed in music. Any distraction they have will distract us also which could be avoided with some planning.

I was watching a video yesterday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXKVG5CQKqw

The music is great indeed, but I did not first appreciate what the signal was at the violinist. To a layman it may look like he is correcting the accompanist ( hey you , play aloud - indeed my cousin watching it felt so). I had to correct myself that he would not belittle his women violinist definitely, so that signal was asking someone from the sound technician to raise the volume of the accompanist. And at another point was he asking to raise the tampura sound to the musician or was he asking them to come close? I am sure both of these distracted him halfway but that could have been overcome with due adjustment before starting that piece. As he got distracted I am sure the spectators also would have got distracted for a while and esp if they had thought that he had been rude to the lady, it takes a bit longer to reimmerse !!!. So all that I want to say is whenever the protagonist is distracted automatically the audience are in some way distracted too, and especially wherever the singer CAN avoid it, he should .

However, that Jagadhodharana is one of the best I have heard.

[ramamantra]

It is only these peccadilloes that remind us that these artistes are only human but for the unique gift bestowed on them. Seen in this light, I find that partaking in their music becomes even more enjoyable. When the artiste on stage loudly blows their nose in front of the mike, my (unsolicited) advice to ganesh_mourthy would be to focus his mind on the unhindered music that will soon follow

) good one

[sureshvv]

I was watching a video yesterday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXKVG5CQKqw

I agree that there is a lot of distraction. But I am not sure prohibiting the freedom of the artiste is the way to go. Best is to listen with closed eyes

[hnbhagavan]

These are the interesting things which happen in a concert.One cannot expect military/uniform behavior from all the artists.It so happens that mridangam tuning starts after every body else settle down.clearing one's throat should not be considered bad etiquette.The musician would have perhaps traveled some distance and they have to adopt to different environments.
I am all for giving 15 minutes initially for these aspects.

[sureshvv]

There is another aspect. Singing in traditional carnatic style places a huge strain on the human physique. If the human cost is carefully analyzed, it may be found to be disproportionate to the economic throughput of the activity and may be made illegal by modern human rights criteria. In a way our artistes are on a self-destructive binge, in order to please us rasikas. So we should just accept what we get without placing more burden on the performing artistes.

[VK RAMAN]

IMHO we are making a big deal out of Artists behavior/body language on the stage. Why should rasikas look back when the artist is acknowledging someone walking in. Rasikas are going in to listen to their music and so long one enjoys their music, leave them alone.

[thenpaanan]

Ariyakkudi was a mUkkuppoDi sni(u)ffer on stage and so was Semmangudi.

I have always wondered how it is that singers take snuff on stage. Is there no risk of sneezing whatsoever? It would be unseemly if that were to happen on stage, no? Also I have seen many a thaattha waving the snuff-laden hand around vigorously before landing on the nostril of choice. If a vocalist did it, that would also raise the risk of an accompanist getting a sneezing fit. Do we know of famous accompanists taking snuff on stage? I have only heard of the aforementioned vocalists.

-Thenpaanan

[thenpaanan]

The music is great indeed, but I did not first appreciate what the signal was at the violinist. To a layman it may look like he is correcting the accompanist ( hey you , play aloud - indeed my cousin watching it felt so). I had to correct myself that he would not belittle his women violinist definitely, so that signal was asking someone from the sound technician to raise the volume of the accompanist. And at another point was he asking to raise the tampura sound to the musician or was he asking them to come close?

I am sure both of these distracted him halfway but that could have been overcome with due adjustment before starting that piece. As he got distracted I am sure the spectators also would have got distracted for a while and esp if they had thought that he had been rude to the lady, it takes a bit longer to reimmerse !!!. So all that I want to say is whenever the protagonist is distracted automatically the audience are in some way distracted too, and especially wherever the singer CAN avoid it, he should .

The first point is indeed TMK asking for the violinist's volume to be increased. It may seem unseemly but I can tell you from an organizer's perspective it is a very rare thing. Most artists want their own mic's amplified -- sometimes with good reason because they cannot hear their own singing/playing and obviously they cannot perform well if that is the case and at other times the performer (very often the main artist) wants their own sound to dominate. Against that statistical sample, TMK is going against the grain.

I have been witness to off-stage fights/gripes where one artist thinks the other is trying to undermine him/her by conspiring with the mic man to reduce their mic volume. Not a pretty sight, especially if you are the mic man. So I am quite happy to see someone asking for someone else's mic to go up.

On the second point about onstage adjustment -- the reality is that during the course of a concert the artists shift around either naturally or because they cannot hear properly. Stage acoustics can be very tricky -- I have heard that the fancier the stage decorations, the worse the acoustics. I have seen violinists move closer and closer to the vocalist until they were touching because they could not clearly hear what they were accompanying. A small shift in position can sometimes change the acoustics for the onstage person dramatically and the performers move around until they find a good spot. Secondly, the instruments change sruthi constantly under the hot glare of lights. But it is a pain to retune acoustic instruments. Violins are easiest, mridangams and tamburas are not so easy. Vocalists tend to make do even when the tambura is slightly off because of this instability. I was once told to strum the tambura softly once on stage (which surprised me -- usually they want it louder) to avoid the annoyance of a slight imperfection. Even well-trained voices can betray you -- here you are all warmed up and you get up on stage and feel suddenly the intermittent, cold, dry-as-a-bone air conditioning blowing right on top of you and there goes your warmup.

Anyway, my point is that the stage is actually very dynamic and one does not realize from the audience floor all the adjustments that are and have to be made by artists on stage. That does not excuse poorly prepared artists either but one has to take the whole picture into account.

-Thenpaanan

[arasi]

thenpaanan,
Yes, the whole picture. The trivial little annoyances we are airing here soon melt away, if the music engages us. It's just that some artistes are more finicky than all of us rasikAs put together, and others who shrug it all away and carry on with their business--being professional, that is.

After the artistes and listeners have settled down, then long pauses and distractions are again well, distractions!

[vasanthakokilam]

Regarding the on-stage dynamics and the complexities involved there, I wonder if in-ear monitors will make a meaningful difference. We have discussed this before and there is a tendency to dismiss such technological aids as unnatural and as something not compatible with CM ( after all CM has been practiced for centuries without any such aids... is how the dismissive argument goes )

Thenpaanan, as an organizer, have you tried setting that up for a carnatic concert and if so, how did it work out?

Artists know the enormous difference between the total sound heard by them on stage vs what the audience hears. They have after all listened to music both on stage and in the main auditorium. Hearing the full sound ( as close to it an in-ear monitor can achieve ) should help in their performance. The analogy that is relatable by us is the quality of conversation one has over a good phone connection vs the one with a lot of disturbances and echo. Yes, you can manage a conversation because you can hear the other person but one can do much better if they do not have to filter out all those annoyances. I think an in-ear monitor, however unnatural it may feel initially, can make a significant difference in the quality of the music they produce in a concert setting.

I wonder if they use such devices while recording CM in a studio setting.

[Ranganayaki]

Such a beautiful rendering of Jagadoddharana.. Thank you.

[Lakshman]

arasi wrote:
Another thing is joining their hands :namaste: ever so often in the middle of their singing to greet VIPs as they enter. Then, the audience do their bit--by turning their heads towards the entrance!

I think that the VIPS deliberately come late so that when they enter the auditorium and are escorted to the front row seats because they want the audience to notice them and pay attention to them.
The remedy for this is for the organizers to keep the VIPs waiting at the back of the hall and only allow them to take their seats at the end of the song.
This is the general practice at western concerts.

[Nick H]

Artists know the enormous difference between the total sound heard by them on stage vs what the audience hears. They have after all listened to music both on stage and in the main auditorium.

It's odd, but many artists do not seem to know that at all!

I don't think that in-ear monitors would work, or be acceptable. They are not just for getting sound into the artists' ears, but for keeping sound out as well. That's why we use them (or at least earbuds) on planes, trains and other noisy places: for the isolation. CM artists do not want to be isolated from each other, or from the audience.

A related reason for IEM use by musicians is hearing protection. Whilst it stands to reason that a rock band makes a huge amount of noise, I gather it can also be pretty loud in the middle of an orchestra. This does not apply to CM, where volume of the instruments is seldom high. The only time I have felt uncomfortable is with a flute pointed at my ear.

Another factor (I'm thinking aloud here) is trusting the sound engineer. Feedback scream or even an accidental nudge of a level control could be a very nasty experience.

[vasanthakokilam]

Nick, in-ear monitors are not at all uncommon among artists of other genres when performing in front of an audience, just so they can hear the fellow musicians on stage. I agree the isolation is something they have to get used to but they are not isolated from music of their fellow performers, it is rather the opposite, isn't it? Why CM is so different? Dismissiveness aside, has anyone tried it with CM artists? I am curious about results from actual usage. If it did not work for any non-rectifiable reason, I will let that go!!

[mahavishnu]

Just for the record, Unnikrishnan uses in-ear monitors in pretty much all his Carnatic concerts.

[thenpaanan]

Thenpaanan, as an organizer, have you tried setting that up for a carnatic concert and if so, how did it work out?

I only had one opportunity to use IEMs for a Carnatic performance I was organizing (my organizing days are long past though). The singer did use them while we were doing sound testing but decided to not use them during the concert because he was not sure how it would affect him during the performance and he did not want to take a live risk. Which was fair, I thought. The more immediate problem than IEM in my opinion was to get the singer to wear a head mic because there is so much movement of the head and the mic's are so directional. But even that is not always acceptable to the singer.

I have used IEM myself on occasion and have found them to be a tremendous assist since I can hear the tambura and the accompanists at a uniform volume no matter which way my head is turned. I especially like the tambura nice and strong and with an IEM I can have it as loud as I want without annoying the accompanists.

-Thenpaanan

[Nick H]

Nick, in-ear monitors are not at all uncommon among artists of other genres when performing in front of an audience, just so they can hear the fellow musicians on stage.

I didn't say they were. In fact, I meant to convey quite the opposite, with provisos as to why they might not be preferred in carnatic music.

I agree the isolation is something they have to get used to but they are not isolated from music of their fellow performers, it is rather the opposite, isn't it?

They are not isolated from the music. Of course that is the very point. They are isolated from the chats and the whispered asides, of which there are quite a few.

Why CM is so different?

I already said. Instruments not high volume, need to communicate other than musically and in sign language.

Dismissiveness aside,

Did I dismiss anything? I thought I just reacted to your ideas with some other ideas. Also, I have been on a stage or several, and what is tough for the seasoned professional can be almost impossibly difficult for the relatively inexperienced amateur, so I do speak from some experience.

Yes, IEMS would have advantages, but I disadvantages too. And properly-set-up stage monitors would make them unnecessary. And if the engineer can't get monitors right, how likely is he to get in-ear monitoring right? Or perhaps this could be yet another addition to the heap of electronics we are getting used to seeing artists bring on stage with them! Actually, I did wonder about doing something like that when I was playing and, often, struggling.

By the way, I forgot to add... These things are custom made. Have you seen the prices of custom-made earphones, let alone the ones they market for musicians? Because I'm interested in hifi, I have, but google may bring you some surprises!

The alternative is the universal-fit stuff that most of us might use on train or plane or bus. Artists could, of course carry their own, but I don't think they'd be happy with a pair that had been in somebody else's ears.

The more immediate problem than IEM in my opinion was to get the singer to wear a head mic because there is so much movement of the head and the mic's are so directional. But even that is not always acceptable to the singer.

I absolutely agree. I don't think one could, even if it was worth it, force an artist to stick something in their ears, but head or chest mics is a different matter. I think that there are organisers in USA who are prepared to say "that is what we do here: if you don't like it..." And, in the face of dreadful mic technique by some very senior artists, I think they are right to do so.

Sadly, those mics are another technological improvement that is probably ruled out by cost more than artists' reactions.

[vasanthakokilam]

Nick, I take back the dismissive characterization . I do acknowledge the issues you bring about. I just wanted to go beyond that and think through the potential benefits of using the IEM in spite of those issues. In addition to solving the basic problem, is there a potential improvement in the quality of music, especially in a setting like CM where the vocalist and violinist communicate so spontaneously? Would not that be better if there is a better and noise free channel? For example, is a violinist's almost instantaneous and instinctive response different/better with IEM vs the usual. Towards that I was looking for actual results from the field, if available.

It is interesting to know about Thenpaanan's own experience. Any first hand account from Unnikrishnan will be useful.

Coming to think of it, may be Sri. Ravikiran will have something to add from his experience since he plays with quite a diverse set of musicians and in different environments.

[Nick H]

That's all right: I can see advantages and disadvantages.

I continue to have proper stage monitor setup and settings, along with an experienced engineer who does what is needed, rather than what he is told, as the solutions for hearing problems both of the artists and the audience, as my choice solutions.

Asides, between artists, do seem to be a norm and perhaps a necessary.