Carnatic music's prime audience

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 31 Oct 2014, 13:55

Isn't it high time we addressed the most significant audience segment for Carnatic music and proactively addressed their needs?

Who can deny that music is the most wonderful source of joy and peace for the senior citizen, ripe with maturity, experience, leisure and a taste for the higher things of life?

Just consider anyone born before 1970 and exposed early to Carnatic music. Such a person would have tasted the golden-age all-time stars of Carnatic music and listened to them perhaps live. Such a person today would have leisure, interest and knowledge to enjoy Carnatic music. God willing, such a person can afford to attend concerts and also enjoy music on TV, radio and the Internet. Such a person is for some people a senior citizen for Carnatic music. But I think that person is THE Prime Citizen for Carnatic music!

Just as one should learn and develop one's music for 12-15 years before becoming a full-fledged Carnatic musician, I think one should have been born before 1970 to be a true connoisseur of Carnatic music. Of course there are the outliers who have a surprising depth and interest in Carnatic music even from their teens, and carry terabytes of music in their pocket. But I am thinking in terms of the mainstream demographics.

Shouldn't Carnatic music movers and shakers address the demographic dividend of this knowledgeable, mature rasika who will be around for say another 30-45 years?

My suggestions:
1. People like Parivadini should create EASY applications to access either TV or radio or Internet streaming or archives of Carnatic music. (TRIA)
2. Create and share playlists.
3. Create and share schedules of concerts and live programmes on TRIA
4. Remove nonsensical ads and meaningless clutter of soaps and crazy fusion attempts from diluting this access to THE BEST OF CARNATIC MUSIC.
5. MAKE SABHAS AND VENUES PRIME CITIZEN FRIENDLY.
6. CREATE TRANSPORT POOLS FOR TRAVELLING TO VENUES.
7. GIFT MUSIC ACCESS, not (just) dhotis, sarees and religious books.
8. Encourage and facilitate forums like rasikas.org
9. Map tastes and develop programmes to suit their interests.

Now you can turn around and say why customize something for an audience which is already the mainstream and in the majority and as such is driving everything?
But I would beg to differ. I think we have been making snide remarks about this constituency and not at all proactively catering to them. I have heard (and made- I confess) umpteen pious remarks from musicians, organisers and pundits that Carnatic music is suffering because of lack of youth in the audiences. When actually it is thriving and surviving on the patronage of these prime citizens!

Remember how the US talked of the baby boomers and the difference they made to their economy?

It is high time Carnatic music celebrates and addresses its prime citizens.
(Although I said pre-1970, I am willing to include those born between 1970-1975 in this category, lest they feel like they're in no man's land).

What do you think?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 31 Oct 2014, 14:21

Not to take away from your point, but allow me to quibble...

1. The "elderly" don't need anything about computers simplified: they invented them. There are always people of all ages that dislike technological solutions, in the kitchen, the workshop or on the desktop. It is not age related.

2. There are people of all ages who have less than ideal health or physical ability. Access to halls, seats and stages is certainly an issue.

3. Of course, getting the young into the concert halls is the biggest issue.

Just as a PS quibble

... They are actually not doing it so much, but I am sure you must have noticed how very many "stock" photos in Indian newspapers and their advertising feature Western, non-Indian people and scenes!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 31 Oct 2014, 14:34

Nick, I changed the picture. Point well taken, sir.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 31 Oct 2014, 19:09

Sachi,
Rasikas.org is run by a very young man, but look at its members--at least the ones who post often

We are heard a lot here, though a valuable member like Lakshman brings goodies constantly, but stays quiet

Physical restraints are, or will be our limiting factor and yet, thanks to music, our minds are ticking, but for a few inevitable 'senior moments'.

As for technology, yes, we definitely have a big challenge there, but compared to our grand children, your generation is also challenged!

Yes, our lot does need some special considerations. Standing and waiting in long lines to get tickets, not being able to use reasonable toilet facilities, are a few on the list.

To be referred to by some rasikAs as 'an old mama, mami' not in a favorable light for no reason at all, is another one

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 31 Oct 2014, 19:16

In other words: give us everything, free, and also handed in a platter.

Yes, this sounds wonderful. I am sure people are already lining up to provide this.

Arun

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 31 Oct 2014, 19:31

Arun,
Not so at all

We are not looking for freebies. We are glad to support the arts in any small way we can. It's the tiresome business of standing in lines for long and other inconveniences which faze us.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 31 Oct 2014, 19:37

That was partly in jest

. But it was also not directed just at senior citizens. We already get *tons* of free stuff which are not exactly sanctioned (well that is a sticky topic). A part of me thinks we ought not be complaining why the free stuff couldn't just drop into our laps and why we have to "get" up for it ....

Arun

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 31 Oct 2014, 19:44

Arun,
If you're into marketing :
1. Never sell yourself cheap or free
2.always give more value than you charge for
3.take care of your customers.
4. Thank God if you can understand their demographics and treat them special.

I bought one of your apps twice I think... For Android and for iPad. It's fine and still it could do with some improvement! (partly in jest of course

)

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 31 Oct 2014, 19:56

Maybe I am jaded, but history seems to indicate the demographics of this market aren't exactly cost effective. They have been drinking free cool-aid (free kutcheris in chennai e.g. are not exactly hard to find) for a while, and the internet boom has delivered cartons of that drink to many a home/computer.

Arun

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 31 Oct 2014, 19:58

Every generation (20 years gap) has a different view of disability; you have a mouth why should I feed you, take it and eat it kind of attitude. It does not hurt extending a kind hand to senior citizens and in fact I was thrilled when I found that senior citizens are given special entry into the chennai international airport which is already filled with unruly crowd. Majority of Senior citizens are technology challenged but are good typists.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 31 Oct 2014, 20:01

Arunk
Has anyone studied who buys what tickets and attends Kutcheris in the Dec season? High time we studied it.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 31 Oct 2014, 20:22

I don't know. There is nowadays a significant NRI component - that is sure.

But during season, in every sabha there are good free concerts (morning and afternoon slots). I mean if you want to basically not pay but listen to good music it is possible. Sometimes if free is "good enough", it will beat/eclipse everything else. We have experienced this even in our regular s/w industry. Free need not deliver the best of the best. For example, you may not be able to easily catch the top stars for free - possible I guess if you are willing to travel by bus a bit on occasion?. However, if its "pain points" (inadequacies) are bearable to most people (they are ok with catching whatever free and pay only once or twice), they will not reach into their pockets to buy something which claims to eliminate those pain points.

In Chennai e.g. I think you have enough free concerts, enough AIR concerts, and enough ones on TV - i.e "good enough" free stuff for many people. On top of that you add Youtube, sangeethapriya, and exchangeable collections for people who are internet savvy or senior citizens who can get a little help from sons/daughters/grandsons/grand-daughters, you get more than good enough free stuff. Not surprising if many say on most occasions - why should I pay when I get so much free. Or "i will wait for a couple of months, that star will perform for free in a nearby temple, or I will watch him/her on TV".

Even in US, where most concerts are paid for, the price point is much lower than for western concerts (there are probably lots of other reasons - you cannot perhaps simply blindly compare two markets). The price that (our specific market is wiling to pay) is also much lower for classes compared to say western stuff.

Arun

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 31 Oct 2014, 21:09

Arunk I want to see that this thread is not hijacked to the topic of evils of free music. I can discuss this subject in a separate thread if you start one.

This thread is about the prime citizens who have time, money and interest in Carnatic music.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 31 Oct 2014, 21:34

Sure. My point was not that free is evil, its just that there is IMO lot of it already catering to those demographics. Perhaps it isn't enough or sufficient (i.e. as your post #1 points out there are other needs). But then my point is even if they have all 3 (time, interest and money), most (overwhelmingly) will be willing to provide only 2 out of 3 (judging from history), and without that 3rd, there is not a whole lot of incentive for the usual providers to provide for those unsatisfied needs.

Arun

parivadini · Post by **parivadini** » 31 Oct 2014, 23:30

I still think that we could try to work out a business model on Free, if we have critical number or scale. Something Like Freemium. That's essentially the Parivadini Bet so lets see.

Share Uber and Ola Cabs(works out cheaper than Auto even if it is a short distance during sabha hopping). This time this is the game changer IMO. have had a few request this time for cycle hire ! !

Cheers
Venkat

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 01 Nov 2014, 00:12

Yes, good thinking Venkat!

parivadini · Post by **parivadini** » 01 Nov 2014, 00:49

And oh yes you will be able to order food where ever you are in most geographies (and it would be based on your geography and the food will be door delivered)! online through a link from a slide insert - The suggestion from Rasikas was a pizza brand to order pizzas - Sorry not working out with any of the big ones(kind of evil guys you see!!) but yes trying to get a healthy food option (mostly subway sandwiches and one more aggregation of food restaurant app).
So next time during the season during a concert rtp break you get an intrusion asking you to buy your favorite sandwich,do think about it!

Cheers
Venkat

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 01 Nov 2014, 04:15

Oh, Ok! Now I get it.
I can see why many present day RTPs are so much like a Subway six incher with choice of bread (main raga like Nalinakanti or Deepchandi or Madhuvanti) with the lettuce of a Kalyani, the cheese of a Bilahari and the dressing of mustard grahabheda (or talachcheda)!

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 01 Nov 2014, 07:40

VK RAMAN wrote: It does not hurt extending a kind hand to senior citizens.

The reality these days is that senior citizens are actually having it all. They have their nest egg (most have own house too) after toiling in govt service and reliable pension. Their children work in pvt firms and help them with medical insurance to top it. They have loads of concession by way of ticket fares, etc. Govt gives them that.

The middle-aged gen is the one suffering most. No permanent job, anytime getting fired; job hopping and insecurity; late marriages; childlessness and infertility as a consequence; no great future and definitely no pension; long recession with no guarantee of recovery... don't even get me started.

We're still in old times where we think senior citizens are paavam. Those days are all gone. Indian society (known for its rigidity and stubborn ways) itself is changing.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 01 Nov 2014, 08:10

Well ladies and gentlemen, when I started this thread I tried to do following:
1. Define the age group as 45+
2. Avoid free/charity and such

I am of the minority opinion that the available goods, services and cultural programmes in India seldom recognise the specific needs of those who are not still tied down to the yoke, sweating and puffing as they toil to make their living, but those who have arrived in a sense.

I did not have in mind people who borrow the neighbour's newspaper and float into the free kutcheris in the nearby temple more for the toothless company and free prasadam to get up and go before 7 PM, to partake of their regulation medication and meagre diet.

Should we close this thread?

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 01 Nov 2014, 10:08

Rsachi wrote:Well ladies and gentlemen, when I started this thread I tried to do following:
1. Define the age group as 45+

Should we close this thread?

45+ is senior citizen to you? Where are you living? Mars?

Btw, does you pic of the old man listening to radio look 45+? Your starting funda itself is wrong. Yeah, it's better to close the thread.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 01 Nov 2014, 12:14

Ramamantra,
I invite you to guess the man's age from this photo. It is from a 2013 article in Financial Times about India's missed radio opportunity :

Clue: look at the man's son. He has just played Holi.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 01 Nov 2014, 12:17

RSachi had 9 good ideas couched behind a rather divisive thread title. May be we can discuss those.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 01 Nov 2014, 12:41

SureshVV, tried to improve the title.

I don't know if it's only me, but I feel offended if someone says my money isn't good enough just because I attended GNB, Ariyakudi and Chowdiah's concerts as a kid.
PS I look forward to this evening's dance recital by Malavika Sarukkai at Chowdiah based on themes of the Bhagavatam. Tickets were at 750 apiece plus online booking charges. Transport will set me back by 600.- But what an artiste!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 01 Nov 2014, 12:52

Rsachi wrote:Oh, Ok! Now I get it.
I can see why many present day RTPs are so much like a Subway six incher ...

Does this mean I will be able to get a non-veg RTP?

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 01 Nov 2014, 14:14

RSachi wrote:
Clue: look at the man's son. He has just played Holi.

Are you sure that it is not the neighbor's kid and that he is not getting ready to throw the radio at the boy for throwing color at him?

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 01 Nov 2014, 14:35

OK! lets have a story contest. What does that picture depict?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 01 Nov 2014, 17:06

He looks about my age...

(the man, that is, not the boy!)

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 01 Nov 2014, 17:17

Calcutta, March 30, 2011:
A man listens to a radio transmission from the semi-final match.
AFP PHOTO / Deshakalyan CHOWDHURY

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 01 Nov 2014, 17:50

Spot on. Pratyaksham-a pattingala?

That delectable white(?) colour comes to any banian by repeated washing in Hoogly waters

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 01 Nov 2014, 19:13

Ramamantra has called his shot. It is time to shut off this thread IMHO.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Nov 2014, 19:23

This thread is all about attitudes, it seems--and sureshvv is right. How many topics under one! Then again, General Discussions brims with topics of 'heaven knows how many big and small things and 'didn't know where else to post it' topics!

Let me focus (ha, a mighty difficult thing for my age group

), ignore our being thought of as a 'dismiss them' lot (see? the attitude bit is creeping in). For heavens sake, forty five plus are freebie-monging, grabbing lot in toto? Excuse me--I would like to know the average age of the patrons of the arts who make it all possible for the freebie-grabbing elders!

I mentioned attitudes, the ingrained ones fighting against one another in us--on the one hand, the culture we uphold emphasizes respect for the elders. Reality in the modern world works against it (changing values, the 'me, mine' generation, mortality factor--medical miracles increasing the years of our stay on earth...).

Back to attitudes--humor greatly helps in viewing the world in all its complexities. However, humor and mere jokes are two different things. A joke is like a refreshing drink when life gets tiring, and it cannot be confused with a sense of humor which sustains us through life's trials and tribulations. A positive 'attitude' is another name for it?

Back to attitude (I am taking one, now

on my age group's behalf). For those of us who are not bothered if a good thing, a word or act of wisdom comes from a babe or someone who has hit the century mark, all this may seem as age bias!

Well, at least I am jolted out of my state of not putting an age label on all the Rasikas.org members whom I don't know personally

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 01 Nov 2014, 19:52

The discussion has meandered quite a bit from the original topic of Seniors' concerns. At 81+ I guess I am qualified to comment on the topic ! One has to be only 62+ here in the US to qualify for discounts/concessions, if any, as a senior. I am not sure if there is any formal age margin in India to be eligible as a senior. It is not possible to guess ones age now a days even in person, let alone from a picture. People dye their hair, appear healthier and ACT younger ( ! ) and many ARE healthier than the previous generation did.
Let us not put all seniors' needs in one basket. Not all seniors are well off, as suggested, even here. People who retired fifteen twenty years ago were not earning as much as the present generation and could save much less, especially in India. Hence many of these seniors could use some help. As Arasi mentioned all seniors will need some additional creature comforts.
It is generally agreed that listening to music lightens ones worries and reduces hyper tension. I am convinced that listening to carnatic music for several hours a day has kept me calmer and saner.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 01 Nov 2014, 19:52

I have posted this happening earlier.In general at least in Bangalore,i can safely assume that it will take marathon effort to fill up for paid concerts.Generally such concerts are held in Chowdiah Hall and backed up by an able organisation which gets hold of patrons to buy tickets.People would be willing to pay for dinner or pizza or for Cinema in malls,but will not pay for music programs.Most of the programs are held free with the help of corporate sponsorship.When Bangalore Gayana Samaja waNTED TO INCREASE ANNAL MEMBERSHIP FEE FROM 200 rS TO 400 rS,there was stiff opposition,but with persuasion could be passed in the General body meeting.In case of ticketed concerts,people would like to buy the lowest possible one.
Nadasurabhi - a cultural organisation in Koramangala charges only Rs 1000/- for life membership.Music concerts are free for all whether member or non member.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 01 Nov 2014, 21:43

" It is generally agreed that listening to music lightens ones worries and reduces hyper tension. I am convinced that listening to carnatic music for several hours a day has kept me calmer and saner."

well said...

I will not be able to listen in a life time the music I have got on my files...nearly 500 GB of files....There is no reason as to why I should I go to concerts free or otherwise...What I require is music that satisfies me and not any one else....This is what I learned here...

Either santhanam or Gayathri Girish..is my choice....whether BVR-BVL or Surya..again my choice only..or Namasankeerthanam or upanyasam..my choice..Not depending on anybody...

I need not wait for a season to commence and all days are season for me...I share as a hobby whenever I feel like or whenever friends all over request for it..

I spent my days happily...

Has age any thing to do for listening a good music whether above 45 or below 45??.... laughable...

Better dwell on better subject...

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 01 Nov 2014, 23:20

I need not wait for a season to commence and all days are season for me - This should be true for musician, student and rasikas, if the music has to touch your heart, brain and life.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Nov 2014, 00:06

Agreed, gentlemen. I couldn't have said it better.

Just as every day is a celebration (especially for our lot), and we know it better than the young ones

Still, we do stop and relish a celebration, be it dIpAvali or India's independence day. Don't we??

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 02 Nov 2014, 08:31

I am not able to connect the two..

If it is meant that annual music season is a festival like the two quoted...yes... it only for few and this festival

is run by the sabhas..for which payment is charged..

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Nov 2014, 08:43

VK,
I meant that we are allowed to get excited about special events. The season is one too, especially for those of us who don't live in India. All the streaming in the world and youtube (great things) do not match a live performance.

However the times have changed, I relive my childhood days of excitement when the season was the highlight of the year for us.

We have come a full cycle and are children again--that could be another reason, may be.

As you know, I have all the frustrations of having to deal with the 'not so good' elements of a busy Chennai in December. I don't know how long I can do it. Every year, it gets to be tougher. Still, the refrain is: a live performance is a live performance

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Nov 2014, 08:51

having to deal with the 'not so good' elements of a busy Chennai in December

That reminds me of you taking an auto to cross the street

I know why but it is still funny. Is that you and/or Suji? (hmm. we have not heard from her in quite a long time)

the refrain is: a live performance is a live performance

Speaking of refrain, that sounds like a good pallavi line for a song. First two things that came to my mind are
'nEril kEtpatharkku iNaiyAgumA, sangIdaththai' or ''nEril kEtpathupOl eduvum uNDO, sangIdaththai' in Kunthalavarali to make it happy and joyous. Something like that can be the theme song for the season!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Nov 2014, 19:28

Yes, we I miss Suji

You remember! This was years ago when I was more faint of heart to cross a busy road (when compared to now, it wasn't as bad at all!). I needed to be there at a particular time, the place was diagonally across the street, but every time I tried to cross, I lost courage!

Yet another time, the road was blocked for the passage of a politico, and was opened again, but the speeding traffic fazed me, and I was helped to cross the road by a kind police woman. As I get older, I'm getting bolder and fare better

All good lines from you for the RTP. Kalyani suits them too. The next RTP line should be about the traffic in speedy Kunthala varALi! ODum traffic thA...NDiyum, cachEri kETka vandIrE! vegu vEgamAiyODum traffic thANDiyum...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Nov 2014, 21:06

Nice!

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 03 Nov 2014, 00:45

arasi wrote: All good lines from you for the RTP. Kalyani suits them too. The next RTP line should be about the traffic in speedy Kunthala varALi! ODum traffic thA...NDiyum, cachEri kETka vandIrE! vegu vEgamAiyODum traffic thANDiyum...

In Vegavahini too?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Nov 2014, 02:06

Good one Ranganayaki.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Nov 2014, 08:45

Yes

And more the vEgam, yaman (I mean, yamunA kalyANi) [-x Wanted to use this icon of Harimau's at least once!

parivadini · Post by **parivadini** » 03 Nov 2014, 15:45

Nick H wrote:[Does this mean I will be able to get a non-veg RTP?

Just went back and saw old threads,technically this ordering food online is not even our idea it was very much crowd sourced from here. The IP belong to NICK(Although the original suggestion was Pizza!)! Anyways I am really not sure how many would actually order a sandwich during the music season,that too seeing a number flashed on screen nevertheless trying out.
Feel free to come out with crazy ideas! None is actually crazy!!

Cheers
Venkat

parivadini · Post by **parivadini** » 03 Nov 2014, 16:11

The Music Season 2014 is here - Parivadini is partnering with Real India (www.realindia.in) to provide both rasikas for a cheap and comfortable stay in Chennai during the Music season as well as for homeowners and property holders to uniquely monetize their assets - Realstay offers home owners an unique opportunity to profitably use extra space at home.

But it goes a long way beyond that.........

Why real stay?
Being a realhost during the Madras Music Season, you get to be a representative of your state or region.You get to interact with a diverse set of people from various cultures. Having guests at home can be a learning experience for you and your children.
We have noticed that guests at a homestay never stop being just that. Strong relations are built that continue to remain long years after your guest has left.
Realstay is a movement that we hope will change the very face of travel in India and definitely during the Music Season.You will have the personal satisfaction of having participated in a movement that could eventually make your own travel experiences a memorable one (for the right reasons of course

)
How to rent out?

Extra rooms with basic amenities can be rented out.
Basic amenities should include a clean spacious room and attached toilet/bath facilities.
Register your place for free on our website and get your page customized with the help of our designers. We have provided default options for key information that we believe is essential for a person to choose a Realstay.
Name and address
Contact Information - Phone, E-Mail
Number of rooms available. Area in sqft. Maximum number of persons allowed
The amenities of your home like TV, Geyser, Washing machine, Computer, Net connectivity etc
Smoking or drinking permission
Cooking facilities
What details do you require from guests
Photographs of your home, the bedroom, the bath and toilet, the kitchen, the surrounding places and preferably your own photographs
A comment section for the travellers to give their views and comments of your place.
Distances from the railway stations, bus stand and the nearest airport.
The information about the season and off-season rates can be displayed.
Pick up facility. And cost of same if available
Parking facility
Details about yourself. A brief profile would be appreciated
Giving out information of the festivals or good season and other unique upcoming events or attractions in and around you place can vastly improve business.
Prospective clients will directly contact you for availability and other enquiries.
There is an option to use the Real India payment gateway to get advances or full payments.

Cheers

PS: Please do share this message if you think some one could gain value out of this. We have not yet opened out the booking availability for Chennai and would be doing it only after November 18th.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 03 Nov 2014, 16:23

Venkat,
One more feather. Enough to crown you the chief among the Indians.

Rather late in the day for this year perhaps unless you get some smart newspaper coverage next few days.

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 04 Nov 2014, 09:16

Could some thought be given to security too? While families and travellers are offered independence in the financial transaction, having a record of who rents to whom could be an easy safeguard just in case.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 04 Nov 2014, 14:25

Hello friends,

self and two of my friends will be in Chennai during Dec 19 -26 for the music season.In case any one has the required accommodation for 3 male persons who are Government employed and with proper credentials,Pl let me know.I would pay a decent rate.Any place in or around Mylapore only.You can send E mail thru Rasika.