Music and spirituality

[kvchellappa]

"Spirituality and Indian classical music are two sides of the same coin." Pandit Shiv Kumar Sharma.

[VK RAMAN]

Every time I toss the coin, I only get South Indian classical music. For some both sides of the coin seems to have only south Indian classical music. For spirituality, I will go to Namasankeertanam.

[munirao2001]

Meaning for Spritual given are: 1.Relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things. 2.Relating to religion or religious belief.
Indian Classical Music meets the requirements of Idealism and Materialism. For person(s) with no religion or religious belief, ICM has contents for the upliftment of the human spirit or soul. ICM has rich content in support of religion and religious belief and also as art form, excellence of aesthetics of pure naada experience, sans intent and content based on the religion and religious belief. The perfect clarity and understanding of both the practitioners and rasikas establishes the richness in INTENT and CONTENT.

munirao2001

[Nick H]

Much of the world's music has neither words not [overt] message, yet people do not argue over its aesthetics.

[sureshvv]

You must mean "classical" music. May be that is why people seem so worried that it is dying.

[Nick H]

Well, I did mean classical music, yes ... but then I thought that there is plenty of other instrumental music in the world, so it would be better to leave the word out.

People all over the world, by majority, enjoy the trivial and the light. All serious music is a minority interest, and there are always concerns for its survival.

[Sundara Rajan]

Haven't we discussed this topic threadbare before ? There are two schools of thought on the subject. South Indian (Carnatic) classical music has mostly been, till recently, devotional and assumed to be SPIRITUAL. Instrumental music, where the words/meanings are not expressed, also have been assumed to be spiritual by those who are familiar with the lyrics. There have occasionally been non-devotional music that also appealed to the minds. Of late, lots of light classical music with no devotional content have been produced that also appeals to the mind. Can these be called spiritual ? It all depends on how you define "Spiritual". Western music mostly is not considered spiritual, except for religious chants, but many also appeal to the spirit ! Thus any music that appeals to the spirit in man/woman may be considered spiritual, not necessarily devotional or religious.

[uday_shankar]

Every time I toss the coin, I only get South Indian classical music. For some both sides of the coin seems to have only south Indian classical music. For spirituality, I will go to Namasankeertanam.

I agree 100% ! For me classical music of any kind is nothing more than either sensual or intellectual. Only bhajanai and namsankeertanam transcend that. Other "musical" or sound-related things I find conducive to the spiritual are Vedic chanting and Tibetan chanting.

[Nick H]

It all depends on how you define "Spiritual". Western music mostly is not considered spiritual, except for religious chants, but many also appeal to the spirit ! Thus any music that appeals to the spirit in man/woman may be considered spiritual, not necessarily devotional or religious.

"It all depends on how you define "Spiritual"."

Oh yes, indeed. Seems to me there is a mixup of "devotional" and "spiritual." Perhaps devotional is a definition of the content, but spiritual is to do with the experience. Non-religious music can be intensely spiritual; devotional music can be tedious...

[uday_shankar]

Oh yes, indeed. Seems to me there is a mixup of "devotional" and "spiritual."

Very good point Nick. I

have had experiences, admittedly rare, where the devotional has transcended to the spiritual. But Carnatic vocal music of any kind has never transported me to spiritually enriching place. The words come in the way, if you know what I mean. As a rule I can never get spritually trasported by any kind of music that has words in it. Sounds yes. If words are needed, the only thing that does it for me are the Vedic chanting, and they do it big! I don't understand most of it but the way the chandas falls in my ears is very spiritually conducive.

[Nick H]

Hmmm, digging for an example where I understand the words. I'm not going to be able to find that in Carnatic music, and will have to take from elsewhere.

Perhaps if I were a christian, the Hallelujah Chorus from Handel's Messiah would move me in a very different way. As it is, it could never be devotional for me personally, regardless of whether it was for the composer, or is for the performers. But there is no doubt at all that, words'n'all, it works for me; that the the words are a part of its structure, part of the way it works, part of its beauty.

Funny things with words and music... I was listening to a western love song the other day and found myself telling the singer: "Hah! Possessive control freak: no wonder she left you!" But... I still enjoyed the song.

[Ranganayaki]

How can anyone say music is spiritual? Music can be religious, music can be devotional, both could be evident in the content. But spirituality is a completely personal response. The spirit is not in the music, it is the recognition of the divine by an individual.

So if an audience member complains that a singer's music is lacking in soul or spirituality, it is because he did not recognize it there. A musician cannot provide spirituality ever.

[kvchellappa]

Spirituality appears to connote many things. Some even said is it is about ghosts since spirit is a ghost. I feel music is more spiritual than religious, that CM music is soaked in religious lyrics notwithstanding. Spirituality, in my vocabulary, is seeing a oneness experientially with all else. I used to imagine this meaning when someone talked of soulful singing. When someone sings authentically and you feel it even not knowing the make-up of that music, a calm descends on you that is indescribable. You are not in an analytical mood, but in an authentic experience of the music, where the meaning, music and the musician have become one. This is my feeling whenever I listen to MS. I feel that art tries to create a miniature replica of nature that gives you a feeling of experiencing the original. TMK does not believe in a personal God (nor do I in my thinking moments), but he does provide music that is spiritual in the sense I nurture.

[arasi]

Simplistic statement, perhaps, but still, I say it...

It's neither there with the musician nor with us. It is out there, everywhere, if only we see it...

[VK RAMAN]

Mystery of sprituality " It is out there, everywhere, if only we see it" - well said arasi.