The endangered RTP

[Rsachi]

The Endangered RTP

It's a wrong time to write this cautionary note when it is the dear season of Margazhi,
When Lingaa competes with Carnatic frenzy,
Everybody is full of josh, bala, besh
And nobody doubts that the RTP is endangered.

But I ask you point blank:
Do you honestly think
The RTP is in the best of health?
That you still soak up its mood
And savour the experience like before?
Is RTP still a major, life-changing force
That it once used to be?

Where is that measured raga unfoldment?
That methodic build-up
That gave a challenge to Dhrupad?
The violin turn that heightened the mood, and the second alapana in the upper reaches felt like a walk in a fragrant hanging garden?

Then would come the Tanam-
A celestial dancer on earth
That shone with a rare, rivetting, movement
Eventhough it played out in the same raga environ.

Then would come the pallavi.
A cadence of song, with simple lyrical eloquence.
But something always stirred within, to hear that prayer straight from the heart.
All the filigree of laya technique would still not rob the basic melody or lyric of its appeal.
The subsequent swaras, in different ragas, were like colourful garlands placed on the idol that already shone in its fundamental beauty.

The Ragam Tanam Pallavi was a musician's most profound and sincere outpouring. It was a moment of deep connectivity which lasted long in the listener. All that creativity and melody had a wholesomeness and a stamp of the singer's personality.

Where are we today? During this Margazhi, maybe a hundred RTPs will rend the air. But will they not be only a distant echo of what we cherished most before?

You have today new fangled raga cocktails. You have Tanam without raga nor pallavi nor nothing too. You have tired voices and tired minds going through the mechanics of a must-do RTP.

You have ragas without any personality being put up with much make-up. You have callisthenics in the form of technique. You have a fusillade of ragas, talas, bhedas and more. You have frenetic, in the face, sweaty toiling.

You can make a studio set-up look like a magnificent Big Temple or an Aswan dam. But the real thing was real because it was the culmination of a masterly unfoldment of creativity, method and presentation. It had a strong heart beating within and its breath was from the depths of musicality. It was not a noisy blacksmith's bellow or a make-believe movie set-up.

Yes, I feel the true RTP is endangered.

[Nick H]

How long before we hear this conversation...

Q. What tukkadas were there? I always like the lighter bits at the end!

A. There was an RTP...

Sometimes it seems to be an afterthought. The ten-minute RTP. On those occasions, I wonder why they bothered.

[rshankar]

The ten-minute RTP. On those occasions, I wonder why they bothered.

A box-checking exercise along the lines of 'engAttukkArarum katcErikku pOnAr' (my husband also went to the court-house......but did nothing useful there)

The text is red is mine to explain the saying....

[PUNARVASU]

My guru , Shri P.N. Krishnamoorthy used to call the '10 minute ' RTPs as 'rag-tan -pal ' . In the BRRR Sabha,Anushakthinagar , of which he was the president, a full fledged ragam tanam pallavi is a must. Rasikas are also willing to sit through a nearly four hour concert to hear it.

[Sundara Rajan]

There is blame to go all around for the situation. I do remember RTPs lasting for 90 minutes and more in the fifties and even in the sixties. Now a days when most Sabhas provide only 2 hours or at most 2.5 hours for a concert, how can an artist spend more than half the time on one RTP, unlike in a Hindustani program where the entire 2 hours would cover only one raga. Paying listeners expect several ragas and songs AND some thukkadas within the allotted time. Also not many listeners have the patience to sit through one or 1.5 hours of an RTP. I understand there are some venues in Chennai that provide full time RTP programs that last for 2 hours. Interested rasikas should search for and encourage such programs.

[venkatakailasam]

RSachi...

As usual it is food for reflection from you..

There was an RTP lasting for 79 minutes...and some concerts had even two RTPs

But one thing is there were two and half to even 3 hours duration ..were there in the olden days..
now a days, the concert time is much reduced..

SHRI TNS, TR, TMK,SANJAY, are still giving RTPs..A chadur raga RTP of TMK lasts for 79 minutes.

[venkatakailasam]

Sundara Rajan..our posts crossed..

[tiruppugazh]

I do remember RTPs lasting for 90 minutes and more in the fifties and even in the sixties.

Have any of the following sung a 90 minute RTP? Ariyakudi, Maharajapuram, Chembai, Musiri, Semmangudi, Madurai Mani, MS Subbulakshmi. Have not come across any recordings of the same. Sruti magazine started a revival of RTP by organising RTP concerts in the eighties. There were articles that said that RTP was dead and it needed revival. So it was considered even in the Seventies itself.

[CRama]

WE need not keep a stopwatch and check if the RTP runs for 90 minutes. All the artistes mentioned by you have given elaborate RTPs. IIRC, out of the list given by you only Musiri's RTP (not many that I have heard) is for 30 minutes. All others sing RTP for 45-60 minutes with full justification to all the ingredients and we cannot have any complaint. I have got all recordings.
Yes. Sruti initiated a project for revival of RTP. Subsequently and even now we can hear many artistes singing RTPs. BUt since the concert duration has shrunk, the duration for RTP also has got reduced. Now many of the artistes sing RTP for 30-35 minutes (See my review of Gayathri Girish and Sowmya's concert). There are some cases where it is done as a ritual for 15-20 minutes. But you cannot generalise that.

[venkatakailasam]

Ragamalika RTPs....has shrunk considerably..I do not remember to have heard in recent times..

[CRama]

Season has just started. Wait

[munirao2001]

RSachi Sir,
Raagam-Taanam-Pallavi, unique to KM, gives the opportunity to a Vidwan to showcase both kalpita and kalpana aspects in re creativity and creativity and establish himself as a reputed Vidwan/Maestro. R-T-P has manodharma aspects, inexhaustibly. Ideal time required to present R-T-P strictly adhering to the theory and also bani is minimum 45 minutes and maximum two hours. In sampradaya, for a shorter duration of less than one hour, R-T-P was one raaga based. R-T-P for more than one hour was based on the raagamaalika-three/five ragas. In the early 19th Century, R-T-P became a raagamaalika, irrespective of the time duration. In KM history, Vidwans/Vidushees based in Andhra region were very well known and respected for R-T-P.
With many maestros learning pallavis, quality is maintained in this aspect. Taanam was neglected till recently. But now, the interest has been revived and taanam is being handled with high skills. But, all the varieties in the lakshana are not being attempted. Raagam delineation has suffered highest when compared to other two aspects. When the Vidwans/Vidushees are given total duration time lesser and lesser and expecting the results of a long duration performances, is very unfair.
If revival and restoration to the earlier era glory has to happen, rasikas have to be demanding and totally supportive. We have many Great Maestros in the present times, who given the true support, can restore and revive the past glory. They have the vidwath and mastery in delivery. Rest of them will fail, without acquiring the specialized knowledge, skills and practice. Why? They have kalpita aspects mastery to a greater extent but in kalpana aspects are found wanting. Central and State Govt. Sangeeth Academies and also institutions like Music Academy must work for the restoration and revival. AIR and DD can also organize R-T-P Sammelans. Representative bodies of Vidwans and Vidushees like Vidwath Samajam, Chennai and KFAC, Bengaluru can also organize R-T-P 90 and 120 minutes special concerts by the Great Maestro members with rasikas unstinting support. Leaving aside the earlier generation Great Maestros and Maestros consciously, Maestros like Vijaysiva, Sanjay Subramanian, T.M.Krishna, Malladi Bros, Sowmya, Bombay Jayashree, Ranjani and Gayathri to name a few popular vocalists and many maestros instrumentalists in Veena, Violin and Flute(only Shashank) can rise up to the occasion very admirably, given the support. Majority of the rasikas have to acquire minimal knowledge on both lakshya and lakshana by attending to the workshops and music appreciation programs. By attending in large numbers the R-T-P concerts and buying, furiously the commercial recordings on R-T-P, rasikas will compel the relevant authorities to meet the risen demand and organize the events. To begin with, let the Patrons and rasikas come forward with required resources to make it happen.

munirao2001

[Sundara Rajan]

In response to Thirupugazh in post 8 above, I do not have any record of long RTPs. However, I do remember one concert of Alathur Brothers and one of Chembai in SankarAbaraNam (with Chowdiah & Palgat Mani) in early 50's that lasted for more than an hour and I had to reluctantly leave before the end of the item, since I had a college exam the next morning. Also in the forties and fifties AIR used to have a regular carnatic concert for 1.25 hours from 7:45 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. on Fridays and an exclusive RTP program from 8:15 to 9:00p.m. on Thursdays that I looked forward to. I do not know if these programs are still continued by AIR.

[VK RAMAN]

If we look at every entertainment programs, including carnatic music, one can see that the duration of any program is reduced or limited to a certain no. of hours and it keeps going down as people have only limited time available to spend on any particular activity. So no wonder RTP duration also fell prey to the ax.

[harimau]

Somewhere I have a tape of GNB singing Nattakurinji. The alapana alone was about 30 minutes long. Though it wasn't a RTP, I can imagine an RTP running into 90 minutes.

I have a CD of MLV with just the RTP in Suddha Dhanyasi running to 48 minutes. Also, there is a CD of S Balachander playing ragam-tanam-krithi in Malahari running to about 40+ minutes (this is a re-issue in CD form of an LP record produced by Japan Victor Company).

Please encourage today's Gods of Carnatic Music to sing RTPs in Bagesri, Ragesri, Dogesri, Nagesri or some such raga by writing how glorious it was. We shall soon certainly see a 3-minute RTP which can be put on one side of a 78-rpm "gramophone plate".

[venkatakailasam]

06. RTP 124 - nATakuranji-GNB
http://mfi.re/listen/53w0w7ni7sn7d0d/06 ... ji-GNB.mp3

this is part of a concert -downloaded long back - source not known

I have many RTPs around 60 to 75 minutes...

p-RTP 005-KVN-RTP-KAMBHOJI...

http://mfi.re/listen/j5y25u3q57g5ivd/p- ... MBHOJI.mp3

p-RTP 095-E Swara-008-GNB-RTP-Tharaka Brahma-Kalyani

http://mfi.re/listen/2zlr83oah20zbw9/p- ... i_xvid.mp3

p-RTP 056-MDR 008-KamakshiAmbaAnudinamu-Bhairavi-MChapu-MDRamanathan

http://mfi.re/listen/pg7agxt5i5990eh/p- ... nathan.mp3

...many more...

[arasi]

Gosh, Harimau, going back to old times, what joy they etched on one side of the old plate by way of neraval and svarAs! So, if given the essence in a modern day express delivery RTP, I'm not averse to it. Still, I find several contemporary musicians who are rendering leisurely RTPs which satisfy my wanting to hear both kalyANi-s and the 'dogesri' and 'nagesri' kinds

[tiruppugazh]

78 rpm Ragam Tanam Pallavi

Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer - Bhairavi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzz2lWADvJE

Madurai Mani Iyer - Shanmukhapriya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-P0VuV8lHI

The greats have done everything )

[venkatakailasam]

This Shanmuga priya RTP by Tanjore S Kalyanaraman is for 80 minutes duration..

RTP 125-SKR MSG TVG-RTP-SHANMUGAPRIYA

http://mfi.re/listen/9f9gg8j6egf6rdi/RT ... APRIYA.mp3

[arasi]

Thanks! Madirimangalam's Ahiri and jAnaki ramaNa were delightful. Did I hear tabla sounds in the latter?

Sundararajan,
Is the song you are referring to 'malligaip pU jAthi rOjA, mullaip pUvu vENumA?

[Sundara Rajan]

Arasi: I guess you are referring to my posting in the Thyagayya movie thread. We may be citing two lines of the same song by the flower girl. My memory is not that great these days !

I am glad several other references above support my statement about long RTPs in the fifties and sixties. Of course, the audience was much smaller, in smaller venues or many times open 'pandals' or temple premises. Even to day there are artists capable of providing enjoyable long RTPs, if only Sabhas and rasikas support that.

[Nick H]

I don't think people should get hung up on the number of minutes. The ten-minute RTP is just a figure of speech for a hurried token effort.

Probably, around 45 mins will do me fine. I'm not saying it is optimal... it it's my attention span that would need training for one hour or more! I'm happy to give that a try.

A major (proper?) RTP should certainly take up the bulk off the time. If should supplant the main, at least, if not more. If not it is in danger of becoming a ten-minute RTP even if three times the length.

The last RTP concert I went to, advertised as such, the artist expected to listen too far to much before even getting to the rtp. It did not work for me.

There is a major RTP series this month. Pick your artist, our pick your raga. Or take pot luck. This sort of thing would work for me in June... we could spend the whole week on it. In December, not so much.

Just to add to the listings aspect off the thread, Suryaprakash likes to include an RTP in every concert. He also likes the concert to be 3 hours at least

[harimau]

78 rpm Ragam Tanam Pallavi

Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer - Bhairavi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzz2lWADvJE

Madurai Mani Iyer - Shanmukhapriya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-P0VuV8lHI

The greats have done everything )

Yesteryears' great singers sang RTPs for extended time periods in regular concerts. They were limited by technology to compress that into 6 and a half minutes by the limitations of recording technology of those days and thus you see these RTPs in a gramophone plate.

Today's musicians choose minor ragas for RTP to prove they can do it. There isn't much scope for elaboration so they keep going around in circles during the raga alapana.

Veena Dhanammal is reported to have remarked, "Is there anything to sing in Sankarabharanam after 5 minutes?" Coming as she did from the school of minimalism, that was an appropriate comment. T N Rajarathnam Pillai, upon being complemented for his elaborate Todi alapana, is supposed to have said, "Did you notice that I was only playing the same sangathis but at different sthayis?"

Those are vignettes of modesty being displayed by musical giants. What we have is show-offs singing Dogesri. X(

[ganesh_mourthy]

Usually , the notion is that doyens sang better than the present ones, and the doyens of the doyens sang even better ones, and and therefore the stone age produced the best music. Such arguments are always there in art forms where there is no clear parameter to gauge what is best or worst.

[CRama]

The trend nowadays is to take up small ragams for pallavi. even ragams like Bahudari and Nalinakanthi for pallavi. The vidwan can show his expertise in handling alapana of such ragam for say 10 minutes. Nobody now likes to take up the big five for pallavi, even if time is available. To manage the issue of time, they can take up a ragam like Sreeranjini or Begada for main and then take up one of the big five for pallavi. BUt in the special RTP concerts which allot 90 minutes for pallavi, artistes do take up these big ragams and render pallavi with full justification to raga alapana and take up some complex talams also for pallavi. The bygone Pallavi Durbar and the coming series in Narada Gana Sabha Mini Hall is a good programme for those interested in elaborated pallavis.

[tiruppugazh]

Today's musicians choose minor ragas for RTP to prove they can do it. There isn't much scope for elaboration so they keep going around in circles during the raga alapana.

Veena Dhanammal is reported to have remarked, "Is there anything to sing in Sankarabharanam after 5 minutes?"

When Shankarabharanam itself has no scope for elaboration then??? Cannot see 'modesty' in that statement though

What we have is show-offs singing Dogesri.

Of course we have exceptions from 'manavaaduland' who can sing the Hindustani equivalent of a Carnatic ragam that was originally conceived as the Carnatic equivalent of that Hindustani ragam.

As for 'scope for elaboration' I am glad musicians like GNB sang RTPs in ragams like Devamanohari. which Vina Dhanammal would have dismissed as having no scope apart from just singing the arohanam and avarohanam

[Rajani]

More details of the Ragam-tanam-pallavi series held in association with Saraswathi daily from 8.30 a.m. to 10 a.m. from Dec. 22, 2014 to Dec. 31, 2014
Venue : NARADA GANA SABHA - MINI HALL

Dec. 22, 2014
8.30 a.m. - Amrutha Venkatesh (Violin), M. Rajeev (Violin), S.J. Arjun Ganesh (Mridangam)

Dec. 23, 2014
8.30 a.m. - Aishwarya Shankar (Vocal), R. Raghul (Violin), Kallidaikuriuchi Sivakumar (Mridangam)

Dec. 24, 2014
8.30 a.m. - Jayashree Jeyaraj & Jeyaraj Krishnan (Veena duet), Mannarkoil J. balaji (Mridangam), Trichy K. Murali (Ghatam)

Dec. 25, 2014
8.30 a.m. - Gayathri Girish (Vocal), B.U. Ganesh Prasad (Violin), J. Vaidyanathan (Mridangam), Sreesundar Kumar (Kanjira)

Dec. 26, 2014
8.30 a.m. - Sikkil Mala Chandrasekar (Flute), R. Hemalatha (Violin), Kallidaikurichi Sivakumar (Mridangam)

Dec. 27, 2014
8.30 a.m. - Shankar Ramani (Vocal), M.A. Sundareswaran (Violin), Neyveli Skandasubramaniam (Mridangam), K.V. Gopalakrishnan (Kanjira)

Dec. 28, 2014
8.30 a.m. - B.V. Balasai (Flute), H.S. Srikanth (Violin), B. Harikumar (Mridangam), Anirudh Athreya (Kanjira)

Dec. 29, 2014
8.30 a.m. - Prasanna Venkatraman (Vocal), H.N. Bhaskar (Violin), K. Arun Prakash (Mridangam)

Dec. 30, 2014
8.30 a.m. - Madurai R. Sundar (Vocal), Nagai Sriram (Violin), Manoj Siva (Mridangam)

Dec. 31, 2014
8.30 a.m. - Sriram Parasuram (Violin Solo), Patri Satishkumar (Mridangam). Sreesundarkumar (Kanjira)

[Nick H]

I suspect that Suguna Varadachary showed that the RTP still lives, this very evening! I do hope that somebody was there who can properly review and describe the wonderful concert.

I'm wondering if she will do it again tomorrow!

[arasi]

Rajani,
Thank you for the info. Many of these I would like to attend. Let me see how many I can make it to when I am in Chennai...will run into you too, I hope!

[Rsachi]

Guys and gals,
Sorry if I sound a bit cartoonish today, but I suddenly thought of this analogy for the present day RTP:
A lovely brocaded silk saree with bottus, peacocks and mangoes and lotuses, a breathtaking pallu, an attractive theme of the border running all through-
has given way to the modern-day salwar kameez, with harem pants, Spanish style dupatta and a side-sliced up floral top.

If you're offended, sorry.

[Ponbhairavi]

I am dreading the day when it will give way to a T shirt with provocative slogan and a bohemian 3/4 pant

[arasi]

Gentlemen,
Well, I don't think we are going to lose the strains of sankarAbharaNanai azhaithODi vA kalyANi or its cousins that easily. I don't see that much of a revolution in attire either. Just have a look at the young ones on the Cleveland stage...

I have to admit though that the newspapers here in India have more of provocative attire displayed on its pages than what we see in our vidESi press

Meanwhile, numerous other threads tell another story--that our good old CM is bringing into its fold more youngsters--we have more musicians giving more classical concerts.

When I see young musicians--I don't remember the old times artistes wearing their caste marks as vividly as some of the young ones do now as part of their make up...

[Rsachi]

Arasi, as accoutrements go, all's well like never before. Just feed on Ramraj veshti and Silks of India ads. You will feel very happy.

[arasi]

No comprende

[Rsachi]

macht nicht. kein Problem

[Rajani]

I hope to run into you too Arasi! I will be attending some of these.

Nick, I attended the lovely concert of Vidushi Suguna Varadachary. The RTP in Kharaharapriya was superb. Each time she outlined a Raga as a part of the Pallavi and later for a Viruttam, I was wishing that would have been the main Raga.

[venkatraghavan.1955]

The music academy 1.30 PM concerts are for 2 hours and 15 minutes where everyone sings a pallavi for sure but we dont see a pallavi by these same artistes for the same duration at other sabhas. Maybe a personal choice or is it academys rule that makes singing a pallavi compulsory?