Getting the message in - Part VII

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 05 Jan 2015, 15:53

Harikesanallur Venkataraman writes in the Dina Thanthi reviewing Gayathri Girish's concert:

Among the musicians who draws large crowds is Gayathri Girish..... One cannot determine the quality of music by the size of the audience. I cannot enjoy the concerts of some musicians who draw large crowds. Nobody draws a crowd like Visakha Hari. But there is nothing praiseworthy in her concerts. She sings and tells the story. If you want to know how harikathakalalshepam should be, you should listen to Kalyanapuram Aravamudan. The only person who performs harikathakalalshepam according to the old tradition is Kalyanapuram Aravamudan. Visakha Hari who offers neither a music concert nor a religious discourse but does something that is rendum kettan and gets pey koottam. I think that is due to her horoscope. Perhaps because I have heard harikathakalalshepam by Embar Vijayaraghavachariar, Thanjavur Kamala Murthy and the like, my ears cannot accept the harikathakalalshepams of Visakha Hari.

PS. I think he expressed the same opinion last year too.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 Jan 2015, 22:53

And all that in a review of Gayathri Girish's concert?

Venkataraman definitely owns his tastes and his past listening experience and the opinions that arise out of it, so that is all fine. But the necessary condition for her popularity is very simple. People like her story telling, rendum kettan or otherwise. Sure, not all great story tellers become this popular so may be he is entitled to invoke the horoscope angle as the sufficient condition

He could have at least acknowledged that she does have the flair, panache and story telling talent that make people want to listen to her.

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 06 Jan 2015, 05:46

harimau wrote:Harikesanallur Venkataraman writes........
If you want to know how harikathakalalshepam should be, you should listen to Kalyanapuram Aravamudan. The only person who performs harikathakalalshepam according to the old tradition is Kalyanapuram Aravamudan.

How True!! But unfortunately, as is the curse, like in the concerts of artists like Smt. Seetha Narayanan, good things in life need not draw crowds too.

harimau wrote:Harikesanallur Venkataraman writes........Visakha Hari who offers neither a music concert nor a religious discourse but does something that is rendum kettan and gets pey koottam.......because I have heard harikathakalalshepam by Embar Vijayaraghavachariar, Thanjavur Kamala Murthy and the like, my ears cannot accept the harikathakalalshepams of Visakha Hari.
PS. I think he expressed the same opinion last year too.

Well i thought it was you who had expressed something similar last year, that her "Sangeetha upanyasam" or whatever she does in the name of it, it is less of sangeetham and less of upanyasam,, which of course cant be disputed at all......

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 06 Jan 2015, 10:19

Visaka Hari is VERY SMART IN DRIVNIG A WEDGE Bewteen the LGJ & EMBAR Schools with the 9yard Madisar she is next only to CHO with his utter IGNORANCE OF EVEN HIGH SCHOOL PHYSICS... ITS A PITY THE REGRESSION TOWARDS IGNORANCE TOWARDS STONE AGE PHYSICS IS AGAIN ON THE MARCH TOWARDS OBLIVION. VKV

priyaram78 · Post by **priyaram78** » 06 Jan 2015, 10:58

Lets respect artists first as they too are human beings with feelings. No comparisons but Smt.Vishaka Hari deserves some appreciation for narrating epics and mythological kathAs in a simple language which everyone can understand. I personally enjoyed her narration of the story of Lord Guruvayurappan last season telecast by jayatv. . Her spiritual discourses with relevant krithis attract large crowds because people find her discourses interesting. Rasikas are intelligent enough to guage an artists' s performance. It maybe easy to attract a huge crowd but nobody can sustain the audience's interest and following if they dont have the talent and dedication.

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 06 Jan 2015, 11:39

This is like nama sankeerthanam/bhajan focused towards common man... Not targeted towards music connoisseurs.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 06 Jan 2015, 11:44

She presented a concert on the unique elements of the LGJ school some time back which I found very good. Let us avoid the harimauism of tearing down anyone who is popular.

gopalk · Post by **gopalk** » 06 Jan 2015, 17:33

Do I sense a boatload of jealousy at the people that attract crowds? "We do not want TMK. We do not want the bhajan singers. We do not want the abhangists."

Chill, guys. To each his/her own. And if your favourite artiste is not attracting the crowds, enjoy the pleasure of an sparsely filled hall concert - don't be jealous of popularity of other artistes.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 06 Jan 2015, 18:23

A very good practice to adopt (for the readers of posts here, and for artists who read the 'views' of any one who calls themselves reviewers): kuch tO lOg kahEngE, lOgOn kA kAm hai kehnA, chODO bEkAr ki bAtOn mein kahin bhIt na jAyE rainA (people will say stuff, it's their job, but let it go, and do not let such useless stuff ruin the day/evening)...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=95UdAo4JdJI

PS: and this post should also fall under the same category.....

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 08 Jan 2015, 07:40

sureshvv wrote:She presented a concert on the unique elements of the LGJ school some time back which I found very good. Let us avoid the harimauism of tearing down anyone who is popular.

I AGREE that Visaka Hari is very talented engaging and KNOWLEDGEABLE IN MANY AREAS. MY OBJECTIONS ARE: 1) MISREPRESENTING THE VERY SPECIFIC FORMAT OF "HARIKATHAKALASHEPAM" which came us from Maharahtas in Tanjore court. pl read Dr.Prameela Gurumoorthy's Ph.d. Thesis on Harikatha-available as a book. Actually out of fear that this whole heritage will be lost I SPENT 2 WEEKS EVERYDAY TWO HARIKATHAS/DAY VIDEOTAPING Smt. Kamala MOORTHY IN CLEVELAND V.V.Sundaram's house with historical as well as other relevent technical aspects explained by Sr.S.Rajam & PRAMEELA g. 2) SHE herself used to call her presentations "Sangeeta Upanyasam" which i THOUGHT WAS CLEVER.3) With passage of time this DISTINCTION HAS BEEN TOTALLY BLURRED. 4) I can understand esp. if you learnt from the one & only LGJ emphasising to present that fact PROUDLY.
The problem in succeeding GIANTS LIKE KRISHNA PREMI & LGJ is that it just does not seem possible. The temptation is to meander into semi-funny jokes mixed in with making statements in areas that the performer is not expert at.....The net result IS LOWERING THE LOFTY LEVELS SHE showed promise in...VKV

rupavathi · Post by **rupavathi** » 08 Jan 2015, 14:12

"Loko bhinna ruchi:" has now become a convenient euphemism for promoting, accepting and endorsing mediocrity... after all, if there are enough suckers, why not do whatever you please, to please them! Tradition after all is as elastic as one's principles, right?

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 08 Jan 2015, 15:55

It seems sometimes the baggage we carry interferes with our ability to be in the moment and appreciate what we experience. Seems especially true with the controversial artistes

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 08 Jan 2015, 23:12

BAGGAGE we carry is a profound subject area& thats one of the reasons I FEEL the need for DISCIPLINE with respect to be agreed upon. Of course this again is almost as complicated as "SCHRODINGER'S CAT" PARADOX in Quantum Mechanics"! VKV

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 09 Jan 2015, 02:46

rupavathi, Agreed. In the same way, the other side uses that to trash anyone with an opposite opinion as suckers.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 09 Jan 2015, 09:47

harimau quoting Harikesanallur Venkataraman wrote:
Nobody draws a crowd like Visakha Hari. But there is nothing praiseworthy in her concerts. She sings and tells the story. If you want to know how harikathakalalshepam should be, you should listen to Kalyanapuram Aravamudan. The only person who performs harikathakalalshepam according to the old tradition is Kalyanapuram Aravamudan. Visakha Hari who offers neither a music concert nor a religious discourse but does something that is rendum kettan and gets pey koottam. I think that is due to her horoscope. Perhaps because I have heard harikathakalalshepam by Embar Vijayaraghavachariar, Thanjavur Kamala Murthy and the like, my ears cannot accept the harikathakalalshepams of Visakha Hari.

The baggage that HKV is carrying is harikathakalshepam, Kalyanapuram Aravamudacharyar, Embar Vijayaraghavachariar, Kamala Murthy etc. Like he says, "She sings and tells a story". I have heard Kalyanapuram and may be some of the others on radio. But my limited knowledge of them do not prevent me from enjoying Visakha Hari's singing/telling a story. A few years back she gave a taatparyam for Krishna stealing butter which was deeply thought provoking/moving. Had I been thinking of all these other things, I may have missed what she said.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 09 Jan 2015, 11:27

semmu86 wrote:
harimau wrote:Harikesanallur Venkataraman writes........
If you want to know how harikathakalalshepam should be, you should listen to Kalyanapuram Aravamudan. The only person who performs harikathakalalshepam according to the old tradition is Kalyanapuram Aravamudan.
How True!! But unfortunately, as is the curse, like in the concerts of artists like Smt. Seetha Narayanan, good things in life need not draw crowds too.

As Sri T N Seshagopalan said once, "We sell diamonds. We don't expect a crowd. If you want to see crowds, go to a store selling glass bangles."

As the late Sri A. Sundaresan used to say, "There is a crowd for Sri Sankaracharya. There is also a crowd for the fellow selling amulets in the Moore Market. Decide which crowd you want in your concerts."

semmu86 wrote:
harimau wrote:Harikesanallur Venkataraman writes........Visakha Hari who offers neither a music concert nor a religious discourse but does something that is rendum kettan and gets pey koottam.......because I have heard harikathakalalshepam by Embar Vijayaraghavachariar, Thanjavur Kamala Murthy and the like, my ears cannot accept the harikathakalalshepams of Visakha Hari.
PS. I think he expressed the same opinion last year too.
Well i thought it was you who had expressed something similar last year, that her "Sangeetha upanyasam" or whatever she does in the name of it, it is less of sangeetham and less of upanyasam,, which of course cant be disputed at all......

Yes; however you seem to have forgotten in http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... it=Parting:

Talking about the relationship between sruthi suddham and audience appeal, HV said, "There are musicians who sing with excellent sruthi suddham and fail to draw a crowd. There are others whose sruthi alignment is found wanting but draw a big crowd. Is this because of Visakha nakshtram or because of Hari namam (Vishnu's name), I can't say." (In his final column in the Dina Thanthi.)

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 09 Jan 2015, 16:14

Hope it is indeed 'final'.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Jan 2015, 00:15

Ravi..

Ignoring for now some of the quotations here that are himalayan in terms of elitism and chauvinism, let us dissect TNS's diamond/glass analogy. He probably offered that as a manner of speaking which is fine but it does not work for the purposes he intended. Why would anyone not want a diamond? In CM, it is not a question of rarity or cost that prevents people from approaching it.

But there is an angle that works. Something made of glass is immediately attractive, it does not take a lot of color, clarity and cut to make it glitter where as those are required for a diamond and that takes time. In that sense CM performance is like a diamond, It takes effort to put in the polish, achieve clarity and bring out the many dimensions. It takes a lot of effort on both the performer and the rasikas. Once that is achieved, it is long lasting.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 11 Jan 2015, 01:00

In a LIGHTER MOOD I am sure every physicist at least knows that the so called Dazzling Diamonds are nothing except DIRTY DIAMONDS. TNS was I think attempting to make sense to persons who may not have the time or interest in DIGGING DEEPER(!) in a simpliied fashion. VKV

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 11 Jan 2015, 11:58

--- it is pollution that makes for the most beautiful sunsets!

But, VKV, isn't it the simple refractive qualities of diamond that make for the colour? I don't know, having neither been able to afford the experience nor done the physics

VK, I'm not sure about the structural integrity of your analogy, because, while it takes time, trouble and skill to cut and polish a gemstone diamond, it also takes a great deal of resource to turn a pile of sand into a piece of glass, and it may take many hours to turn it into a piece of glass that is a work of art. Of course, I'm just quibbling

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 11 Jan 2015, 16:03

vasanthakokilam wrote: Ignoring for now some of the quotations here that are himalayan in terms of elitism and chauvinism,

How about chicanery and charlatanism (as in selling the astrology angle to the gullible public) ?

But there is an angle that works.

You may be over analyzing. The angle is that a diamond jeweler is not interested in the masses thronging to his store. He would much rather have a few motivated patrons (with the capability to absorb).

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 12 Jan 2015, 01:37

Suresh, true.. that is probably what TNS was going after. And also the relative quality differences between Diamond and Glass and an audience who can appreciate that difference.

Nick, yes structural integrity of the analogy is important. Glass can be mass produced though it requires a big infrastructure. And if glass is that film music, making a catchy and hit film music is not easy, contrary to what some people may think.

But there is a different structural hole. Economics 101 tells us that it is the marginal cost of production that determines the price and not some inherent quality or value that is placed on by people. Hence water is much cheaper than Diamond even though water beats diamond by a million times in its significance to us. So something of great quality and importance need not be expensive or exclusive.

Alright, that is already way too much into geekdom

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Jan 2015, 01:59

Further complicated by the fact that the price of gem-stone diamond is a market-fixed thing, not a free-market thing.

Err... what we talking about? Have we repurposed the thread?

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