CM AS A PROFESSION

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 14 Jan 2015, 22:41

Is it worth taking Carnatic Music as a profession. I don't think so. I am a witness to the atrocious treatment meted out to a young artist by a recording company. The artist was talking to me & my wife after the concert unmindful of collecting the payment from organisers. I reminded the person about collecting the payment as I saw the organisers going out. To my utter surprise the artist said the organisers have gone. Nor have they given the artist any contract. I am told that is the way it is for young artists. The artist was not upset but I was. They don't get paid or get at best Rs 500. The state of upa pakkavadiyam (Mridangam & Kanjira) artists are even worse.Young artists should firmly say NO to free concerts. The Sabha Nayakkars simply manipulate these youngsters.One artist says the Sabha Secretaries don't even like if they tell them that the date suggested is not convenient. Why this oppressive control over young artists. Time someone speaks for these young artists.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 14 Jan 2015, 22:52

KNV
In most countries, there are minimum wages fixed for every profession.
There are artiste collectives which control the range of payments for different types of engagement for musicians. This is what I have heard. So musicians by and large don't make huge money but surely they make a decent living in this day and age.
Why should Carnatic musicians remain unorganised? (And we were promoting a Tambura artistes welfare fund.)
We need to promote a musicians collective which defines and monitors payment slabs for artistes.
I really wish artistes make it a profession, do well and give us good music.
this is a good discussion. Perhaps we should start listing and polling what are the reforms we need to see in this area.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 14 Jan 2015, 22:53

Duplicate post

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 14 Jan 2015, 23:00

This is true of vadyars and priests in temple. Thousands and Thousands of devotees expect pujas in their name but will not give any dakshina to priest. Unless priest specify a certain Dakshina for doing puja at their home, they devotee will get away by giving a measly dakshina.

Young artists cannot be choosers, or bargainers or negotiators. They have to be at the whims of the organizers, take it or leave it situation. Record Labels are notorious in that even famous artists are trapped and they do not get paid due to contractual agreement which specifies several expenses before paying the artists.

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 14 Jan 2015, 23:05

Sachi

As you said there must be minimum wages for different types of engagement for musicians. If you can't even earn Rs 25000/- a month as a Mridangam or Kanjira or Ghatam artist why should anyone take it as a profession. Some senior popular artist should come forward to form a Musicians Collectives. Tall order!!! Sadly AIR has stopped recruiting musicians & grading artists regularly citing lack of funding by Govt. If Govt can support everyone with some subsidy why not classical musicians (Hindustani included).

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 14 Jan 2015, 23:06

vgovindan wrote:
VK RAMAN wrote: How can we change the world, one small bite at a time by each one of us in our own way to popularize CM.
As with TAWF, I am willing to contribute Rs.1000/- per month. Can we see some action to alleviate the problem of junior artists and accompanyists?

No one seems to have taken note.

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 14 Jan 2015, 23:09

I agree with you Raman. It is true of Gurukkals also.Saddenned such learned people struggle for a decent living.

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 14 Jan 2015, 23:18

Govindan that is not going to help. How much a small group can generate & support. Solution lies in what Sachi said. Once an artist reaches performing stage they should get paid or otherwise they should refuse to perform. People running sabhas with Big Brotherly attitude will vanish then. First they should not put an end to exploitation by Recording Companies.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 14 Jan 2015, 23:35

There may be a minimum wage for employees. In my mother country, it will be what is paid to cleaners and the like: it will be hard or impossible to live on it.

Artists are independent. They work per performance, or series of performances. In some situations they might have minimum payments laid down by trade-union agreements, but still, if they get no work ...they get no pay.

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 15 Jan 2015, 00:08

knv,
I do not think Sachi has said anything much different than what I said. Well, I am not in a position or age to organise these things. Therefore, I will be only on the side lines and do whatever I can.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 15 Jan 2015, 16:04

I hope the musicians who are already established in this field are making enough money.I think those recognized artists may be able to specify a minimum rate.Here also there may be two or three levels.The supporting artists who are already established also i hope will be to command a decent sum.My wish is that such enormously talented people who are giving solace to the rasikas by enthralling them to good music should earn substantially . Sri Vijaya Siva has in a recent interview in the Hindu stated that they can become upper middle class at the most thru the profession.

The story of upcoming artists and upa pakavadyams is to say the least is very distressing.I feel a minimum fee must be defined for the concert artists.Here like in any arts field,the major amount is cornered by well established musicians and the organizers would try to pay as least as possible to the artists in upcoming and upa pakavadyam category.I feel well established musicians should come together and sort out this situation.There are artists like sri Ravi kiran,shashi kiran,Sanjay etc who can take a lead and protect the artists.When Rasikas.org collected the fund for Tambura artists,it became a token affair.Thanks to the help provided by Carnatica which organised a benefit concert,the total amount was substantial to award some senior Tambura artists.

A fund collection drive by rasikas as suggested by Sri Govind would not be sufficient.Each organisation which conducts the music programs should properly utilise the resources and pay accordingly.Here the Rasikas should support the ticketed concerts.As I observe the sponsorship by Companies and other organisations has become the main stay for conducting music programs.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Jan 2015, 16:26

the major amount is cornered by well established musicians

The major amount is cornered by a few celebrity musicians. There are many "well-established," artists of high repute, even holders of the highest awards and titles, who perform for comparatively little money.

It is one thing for us to talk, with the best of intentions, about this situation, but there is only one answer to it: an end to the all are welcome Chennai concert culture. We should, perhaps support ticketed concerts, but when the cost varies from hundreds to thousands of Rs, this is something that very many will not be able to afford.

priyaram78 · Post by **priyaram78** » 15 Jan 2015, 17:38

Only those with a sound financial support are now able to take carnatic music as a profession because of uncertainty of earning a good income. But most of our carnatic musicians are highly qualified academically so till they get fully etablished in the carnatic music scene, they get employed in corporate companies. Once they are established they take up canatic music as a full-time profession. Yes it is difficult to do full justice to carnatic music while being employed in a demanding job. More reasonably priced ticketed concerts should be encouraged to benefit musicians and audience at large. Wish like cricketers carnatic musicians too get the same benefits from corporate organisations !

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Jan 2015, 19:03

That means branding, doesn't it?

Some of the vestis and kurtas and saris might already be sponsored, but at least they don't have the sponsors' name woven in yet.

priyaram78 · Post by **priyaram78** » 15 Jan 2015, 19:18

I meant, like cricketers being in the payroll of companies and getting steady salaries and being allowed to practice and give concerts whenever chances come by. companies can do this as a social responsibility to promote and propogate our Carnatic music for generations.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 15 Jan 2015, 19:38

priyaram78 wrote:Only those with a sound financial support are now able to take carnatic music as a profession !

This is true of any profession. Take the case of Kids going to medical school or high repute engineering schools. So someone without financial support should use LUCK "Labor under correct knowledge" will succeed in any profession IMHO

priyaram78 · Post by **priyaram78** » 15 Jan 2015, 20:17

My humble opinion is a student from even an ordinary school can get into a high repute engineering college based on his academic achievement, that is high marks. Academic excellence is what matters to get into a reasonably good college or even a well recognized college. Scholarships are also provided to brilliant but not financially sound students, but I really know a few highly talented Carnatic music vocalists, even one distant relative of mine, not able to pursue it as a professional vocalist because of lack of financial backing even to promote themselves. Talented students of Carnatic music need a lot of support to present a concert in the professional scene.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 16 Jan 2015, 06:07

The situation is actually worse than portrayed.

The main artist, despite receiving a pittance, is expected to pay a decent honorarium to the accompanying artists if he/she expects that they will accompany him/her in the future. So the main artist s actually paying the accompanying artists though he himself may not have revived enough for his efforts and is effectively out-of-pocket for this.

I can tell you that an early afternoon slot will cost the organiser no more than Rs 1,000 as artists' fees (split among 3 to 4 persons). More money is spent on hall rental and a 5-6 line ad in the Hindu.

So you can say the newspaper makes more money from the concert than all the artists put together!

devan · Post by **devan** » 16 Jan 2015, 09:07

You are correct.the main artist is the main suferer.violinists and drummers make more money.

priyaram78 · Post by **priyaram78** » 16 Jan 2015, 09:55

Time for a change. Government should appoint a body like HRD ministry to regulate carnatic music. Our carnatic musicians and accompanists should be free from financial woes and able to concentrate in music, new and upcoming artists should be given assisstance, talent spotted in schools and colleges should be encouraged. Ticket prices to be regulated. Wishing all these to come true !

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 16 Jan 2015, 12:04

This problem and challenge for the artists are real and remains unresolved from time immemorial. Only select artists with 'yogam' benefited and could make a comfortable living and practice. Rest struggled and even in the present, the struggle is unending. Let us seriously review and focus on the remedial measures.
We need commitment from all the stake holders-Rasikas;Event Managers & Organizations;Patrons and Sponsors;Institutional-Private and Governments;Parents;Artists, who are highly successful with good income and wealth;Media-Visual and Print.
1.Rasikas: Rasikas must voluntarily commit time and resources-attend ticketed performances or donate to the event management organizations-either on the day of the performance attended or unrelated to the performance attendance. Seek and motivate relatives and friends to either donate or sponsor events.
2. Event Managers and Organizations: Resolve and work selflessly for mergers and acquisitions and form organizations, which are professionally managed. Organizations with poor management are doing more harm than good.
3. Patrons and Sponsors: Resolve that the cause is noble and dedicate the resources to the event management organizations, unconditionally and also at par with the funds they commit to other genre of music-light;film;Western or International.
4. Institutional-Private and Governments: Grants and funding systems should be standardized and should work with transparency. Their web sites should give total information on the systems and procedures and make them user friendly. Business representative bodies like CII, FICCI, ASSOCHAM, CREDAI-to mention a few, must also standardize the systems and procedures for CSR funding and grants. Central, State Governments and Private Managements must introduce fine arts from the school levels to higher education-grants and salaries for the music teaching and teachers. Central, State, Public Sector Undertakings and Private sector undertakings give employment to meritorious and qualified practitioners and rules permitting the art practice and performances.
5. Parents: Parents associations of schools and colleges must offer scholarships to the select music students to pursue music education.
6. Artists: All the artists who have attained success as a practitioners and good living must organize fund raiser events, individually or collectively, at least once in a quarter. Institute systems and procedure to support the talented and upcoming practitioners. Artists from other genre of music, who have achieved great success and also wealth, must individually or collectively through their foundations or representative bodies offer financial support and also join as co promoters for ICM events and also meritorious artists to pursue music education.
7. Media-Visual and Print: Associations of Media must select artists of great merits and in need of promotion. The selected artists must receive both the financial aids as well as paid engagements.
'Kalasinchana' music magazine of Ananya, Bengaluru had published my letter to the Editor, an appeal to the rasikas for joining the cause by ending the 'freebie' culture in the Jan'15 edition. Individual transformation leads to collective transformation and results in dedication, commitment and support for the growth and development of arts and artist and their well being. Individually, let this noble cause become the goal and New Year 2015 resolution, globally. Every individual should imbibe the spirit and commitment of Shri V.Govindan, to make this eminently possible, an achievable goal.

munirao2001

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 16 Jan 2015, 14:23

I have a radical idea. Think about it.
Suppose we create an account payment system like Airtel money or Apple pay and each artiste is registered there.
Every time I attend a concert which is free, I make a payment of Rs 100 split in the proportion as follows:
Main artiste 40%
Violin 20%
Mridangam 20%
Ghatam/Khanjira 20%

We can work out formulae and variations where the the number of artistes is different or composition is different or the concert is in a different currency area.
We can even codify a payment system so as soon as I deposit Rs 100 it gets distributed accordingly.

That way
Payment goes direct to artistes
We express our solidarity with their cause
We do not have unpleasant discussions

Think about it!!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 16 Jan 2015, 14:32

priyaram78 wrote:Time for a change. Government should appoint a body like HRD ministry to regulate carnatic music. Our carnatic musicians and accompanists should be free from financial woes and able to concentrate in music, new and upcoming artists should be given assisstance, talent spotted in schools and colleges should be encouraged. Ticket prices to be regulated. Wishing all these to come true !

I'm no fan of the "free market." It usually just results in those who have getting more, and those who have not getting even less, but, equally, "government should..." is not going to work either. What should happen and how should this be done? Should we have a sort of NREGA for carnatic artists? How should this be apportioned between families of artists? Where will the money come from, and, assuming that it is tax-payer funded via govt, how much will disappear into the pockets of middle men, and what will that do to the music community ethos? I have a feeling that people would be crying out, "Come Back Sabha secretaries: All Is Forgiven!"

And, by the the way, doesn't AIR do this to some extent, with guaranteed hours of work for artists of various grades? I seem to recall being told that a long time ago and might have got it wrong.

Much of the world's serious (and not so serious) performing arts are grant funded in one way or another. Theatres, performing groups, orchestras, artists still struggle to survive. Funding is one of the first things to go in government budget reviews, especially if the government can't see beyond the tip of its commercial nose.

There is only one answer: an end to free to concerts, and seat prices that many of us will no longer be able to afford. Even if we can afford it, many will balk at the idea of being charged Rs.2,000 to sit in a plastic chair in an acoustic-disaster venue with blaring speakers.

And... the crowd-drawer performers will still pack those halls, but the youngsters and the promising beginners (and some of the acknowledged, but not crowd-drawing, greats) will be performing to even smaller audiences

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 16 Jan 2015, 18:33

RSachi Sir
Rasikas Payments: In the best interest, the contribution or payments should be to the event management organization, who would have the contract with the artist or artists. I have been suggesting that the fees to the artists should be similar to the AIR, which is based on their grading system. For the artist(s) yet to get the grading, a minimum fees can be fixed. Event management also requires funds and support from Rasikas.
Your suggestion will not be acceptable to the event managers and also to the artists.

munirao2001

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 16 Jan 2015, 18:51

Sir
I am okay to pay the event managers or organisers provided there is transparency and the amount goes 100% to artistes.
This whole and sole idea is to help the artistes.

Your idea about the AIR rating system and payment rates is very good. Could someone share the actual remuneration for different types of concerts?
And if I am right, AIR will hold all the rights for rebroadcast and release as CD etc. Am I right?

priyaram78 · Post by **priyaram78** » 16 Jan 2015, 19:27

Rasikas from all over the world descend to the mecca of carnatic music during the december season adding in some way to the Government exchequer by way of tourism. Hotel bookings, transportation, and other expenses all benefit the Government. When carnatic music can contribute to the Government, I can only look upto Government funding, organisation and a solution for setting up transparent bodies to do something for musicians and to promote carnatic music among youngsters.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 16 Jan 2015, 19:44

I second Sachi's idea.I do not know how this can be realized.Definitely 100 Rs for each concert can be credited in the common account,but there must be a mechanism to see that the proceeds go to the artists concerned.One way of doing this is through the organisation which conducts the concerts.In addition to whatever they fix,this additional sum of Rs 100/- given voluntarily by the Rasikas should be added to the remuneration paid by the Sabha to the artists.
Sri T M Krishna has declared that he shares his remuneration equally with all the artists.Here one has to take into account that Sri TM Krishna is basically financially sound.This may not be the case with all the artists.I have no experience in organizing,but I have often heard there are two ways in which contracts are fixed- one way is to fix the remuneration of each artist independently and other way is to pay the main artist and the main artist in turn pays each artist as per mutual understanding.
In case each sabha can collect a huge corpus through sponsorship and yearly ticket sales and advt.,they should still be able to distribute substantial amount to all vidwans.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 16 Jan 2015, 20:53

Sponsorship does not flow as freely as it might once have done. I have no idea of the numbers, but I don't think that many sabha treasurers would be as optimistic about the sums that they collect, or are likely to collect in coming years.

We also have to remember that there are always other expenses to be paid. Probably the larger organisations with their own properties have even higher expenses than those who rent halls for their concerts.

I'm sorry if I seem somewhat negative about this --- but, when I'm being pessimistic, I'm delighted to proved wrong!

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 16 Jan 2015, 21:28

The only way that music can survive is thru contributions by Rasikas and whatever sponsorship the sabha manages.Sponsorship to carnatic music does not flow as freely as it happens for film music.I agree with Nick H regarding this.it is necessary for us to think of money flow for the survival of carnatic music.
During Rama Navami festival in Bangalore the Mangalarati plate is taken thru the entire crowd.Perhaps about a third in the crowd would contribute say Rs 10 or some change.Most people would pass by soluting.The aim of the organizers is to collect amount however little to meet certain small expenditure like garlands.The Rama navami concerts conducted by Sree rama Seva Mandali for about a month is supported by sponsorship and the sales of tickets - season and daily tickets.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 16 Jan 2015, 22:35

Sirs
Let me granulate my suggestion:
1. Artistes register in a program, called, say, "Artistes Collective"
2. The registration data will include address, bank account details for credit, brief CV incl. AIR grading etc.
3. The Collective opens a common bank account via which money can be transferred to the registered artistes.
4. Each concert with details of performing artistes will be notified by the Collective via internet sites.
5. Anyone can pay into the the collective account say Rs 100 after the concert making a reference to the announced concert (# xyz 123..etc)
6. The collective will have an automatic mechanism of pay through to the artistes' accounts. A confirmation will be sent to the rasika/depositor.
The entire Collective web operation will be subject to audit etc.

I feel some of us at least should contribute some time and effort to do this type of activity which will ha ve a long term value to artistes who to me are God's way to give us music.
Hope I am making sense here.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 17 Jan 2015, 20:17

Dear sirs,

The It wizards of the forum are requested to come with a working model for Rsachi's suggestion.This forum should set an example that they are interested in evolving a working model to reward our performers.This payment should be applicable for free entry concerts.

chitravina ravikiran · Post by **chitravina ravikiran** » 18 Jan 2015, 07:50

Greetings to all! I just updated myself with this and a few other topics. Though this is a sensitive subject, I will endeavour to put in a couple of points as objectively as possible.

1. From childhood, interviewers used to ask me this question "Is this viable as a profession". Once I started teaching, most parents/students would seek my counsel in this. There have also been several panel discussions regarding this that I have attended.

2. My answer then and now remains the same - "CM is not merely a viable profession but also one of the most rewarding ones, from any standpoint. Its viability is comparable to almost any profession as long as an individual puts in the same number of hours on music that other professionals put in.[/i" In other words, a doctor puts in (from Kindergarten) about 20 years at an average of at least 6-8 hours per day (graded over years). It has been well documented that artistes who have put in that kind of inputs have risen to the very top of the field even financially.

3. I have also cautioned aspirants against an Utopian approach of working barely 2-3 hours per day and expecting it to be viable all by itself... No fair profession is going to be so.

4. However, music is quite kind - even 5-6 hours per day over 10-12 years can take one to the top (provided it is also backed by mental investment of time, energy and emotion etc).

5. As someone trained by a guru like my father Narasimhan who sometimes used to pay 100% of our fees to accompanists (when budgets of orgs was very small), I have always believed that accompanists must be fairly treated. That brings a question of what's fair. Accompanists who contribute immensely to a concert will sometimes get paid on par with the main artiste and in some cases have been known to get even more than the main artiste. Typically, these are accompanists who have put in a similar or greater degree of hard work compared to the main artistes. Thus they command a market value accordingly.

6. I am highly gratified that today, a number of young main artists as well as violinists and percussionists have established themselves commendably and are able to travel in comfort, live in style compared to even 25-30 years back when owning a car or home used to be as attainable as a sojourn to Mars...

7. That said, any field can be improved overall and I do find all your sincere initiatives most heartwarming.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 18 Jan 2015, 08:35

Very nice and balanced views by Mr Ravikiran, as always.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 18 Jan 2015, 09:25

Thanks Ravikiran. Quite inspirational and hopeful message to aspirants.

Now, what are the sources of potential income for someone like that? Let me list the ones that come to my mind. Feel free to comment/add/improve/update it

Public Concerts in Sabahs
Wedding Concerts - Is it true that musicians can get paid more here compared to public concerts? (there are artists who do not perform at weddings)
Performing for Bharathanatyam ( mainstream concert performers and bharathanatyam performers don't seem to overlap, with some exceptions )
Performing in other channels like Film music. I hear that CM instrumentalists can supplement their income here, especially for percussionists. Any truth to this?
Teaching
Income from the sales of music
1. From Sales of studio recorded songs - CDs, Digital downloads,
2. From Sales of concert recordings
3. From Subscription Services like Spottify however spotty that actually is, Google subscription services etc.
4. From from share of the Ad revenue through Google for concerts posted at Youtube

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 18 Jan 2015, 09:47

In any case, rasikas pay either by way of tickets or purchase of CDs or subscription to channels like Charsur etc. If artists can form one or more associations wherein their concert recordings can be pooled and made available to public on a regular subscription across the board, there will be a steady income for all artists throughout the year rather than too much concentration in one period and too much vacuum in other periods. This should include studio recordings. This will make available quality recordings at an affordable cost. Of course this may thin out the concert attendance. One may consider the pros and cons. IMHO the Margazhi hustle and bustle has only reduced the quality of music. The artists needs relaxation and rasikas need to chew the cud - so to say.

priyaram78 · Post by **priyaram78** » 18 Jan 2015, 14:29

Yes too many concerts in december and very few in other months. One of my friends here back from chennai december season remarked overdose of CM in one month so just wanted to be off CM for few days. And I hope all Carnatic Musicians, upcoming especially do get chances from sabhas, from recording companies and chance to live comfortably making CM a profession.

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 18 Jan 2015, 15:54

Thanks to Ravikiran ji for his most objective and fair opinion on the subject.

Vasanthakokilam's remarks too are very true and happening.

I feel that the 'religious' perspective /content of Carnatic music (we have to admit it exists) is getting diluted.

bombal · Post by **bombal** » 18 Jan 2015, 16:14

well said Ravi..as always your words of wisdom, are extremely chosen, yet very powerful and absolutely true.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 18 Jan 2015, 17:54

Does it put to rest that musicians,accompanists including upa pakavadyam are not paid properly?
It was mentioned in the forum barring top few artists,others do not command much premium in the market.But from Sri ravikiran has put to rest that things are not that bad.There is scope for improvement every where.
Judging by the number of music programs which are going on in India as well as abroad,there is a fair chance for those established in the field.Here i am not talking of two or three artists.In case you take for example a music festival of 7 days,around 28 to 30 musicians - main as well as accompanists get chance to perform.In case the payment method is fair,then as Sri Ravi Kiran has pointed out,there is no reason for worry.
I would like to ask a specific question,whether Ghatam/Khanjira artists are paid enough to make a decent living?

priyaram78 · Post by **priyaram78** » 19 Jan 2015, 11:58

Many in this profession are being paid less, barring a few handful. A Carnatic Music Association has to be formed to address the problems of all. Unity among all the musicians, accompanists and others in this profession very necessary.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 19 Jan 2015, 12:25

Chitraveena Ravikiran Sir,
I believe in realism and facts. Study of the grades artists of AIR- restricted to TOP and A, artists who have taken CM as a profession, have not achieved the living comfort you have commended. The professional fees being paid is also poor, abysmally poor. KNV Sir, who has initiated this topic and others in the discussion are not focused on the TOP 'popular' artists who are able attain the higher standard and comfort of living. The focus here is on the majority of artists with Vidwath and saadhana of high merits, without any other employment and means of income. I have also heard a very senior music and dance critic mentioning that all the artists are very well placed, with dismay and disappointment. Very minor percentage of artists have managed such success, still the majority of artists are suffering in silence. We need solutions and action plans for remedial measures, if CM as a profession in comparison with any other profession, offers opportunities for successful practice.

munirao2001

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 19 Jan 2015, 12:53

In any field, quality succeeds only if marketed properly, especially when the market is limited.

In the case of performance arts, success depends not only on the expertise, but also on confidence, presentation, communication, etc. -- and the rigour of marketing.

Blame game is of no use.
Failure in any field is subjective; it is futile to search for drawbacks elsewhere.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 19 Jan 2015, 13:12

Pratyaksham Bala Sir,
'Quality'. 'Quality Assurance' and marketability are independent and critical factors. In performing arts, success is guaranteed for extra ordinary. The clarity and understanding is very much required for creating conditions for success of meritorious, if the performing arts and its practices have to grow and develop. It is not 'futile search for drawbacks elsewhere', it is truly both within and without. Study only reveals the facts. Facts only leads to solutions , remedial measures and action plans.

munirao2001

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 19 Jan 2015, 15:28

Study only reveals what it sees, and the potential greats in art that are never seen remain invisible.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 19 Jan 2015, 17:17

NickH Sir,

I said 'Within' and Without'. The study reveals factors of 'without'.
The potential greats have to take right decisions and actions at the right time with drive to achieve success. Without efforts to show case the potentiality the recognition can not happen on its own, in a natural way and manner. This determination to succeed is will and is the factor of 'within'.
Once the recognition of potentiality is public, the factors conducive for the potential artist to establish has to be in place, the support systems. The system should be based on the meritocracy, sans pride, prejudice and bias. The above average will raise their standards to achieve the good, if not excellent. What are the factors influencing the ' without' factors- parents; Guru;Opinion maker/influential spokesman;event manager;media;patron;Institutions; rasika, individually or collectively.
As already stated, the extra ordinary potential artists like Sri Mali;Sri BMK;Dr.SB;Sri Chitraveena Ravikiran; Sri Shahsank;SriU.Srinivos, Smt.E.Gayathri; Sri Ganesh and Sri Kumaresh; Sri M.Nagaraj and Sri Manjunath, to name a very few Great Maestros and Maestros, can not be denied or stopped, either by 'within' or 'without' factors.
Europe and US of A give research material for the study and implementation. Any human endeavor will have its failures but they do support the deserving artists to realize their potential and contribute.

munirao2001

askn · Post by **askn** » 19 Jan 2015, 18:59

vgovindan wrote: If artists can form one or more associations wherein their concert recordings can be pooled and made available to public on a regular subscription across the board, there will be a steady income for all artists throughout the year rather than too much concentration in one period and too much vacuum in other periods. This should include studio recordings. This will make available quality recordings at an affordable cost. .

this suggestion of vgovindan IMHO is a great way for artists to supplement their income.
At RadioWeb ( disclosure : I am a co-founder of the service ), we have a ready platform to enable this for artists. We have made attempts to talk to artists about doing this , with very little success. There seems something that is holding them back from doing this , and is not being expressed either .

This can work only if the artists make their music available to platforms and if a significant number rasikas are willing to subscribe to such a service ( which also seems to be an issue ) . There needs to be scale if the artists are to get anything meaningful from this

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 19 Jan 2015, 21:43

I agree with Munirao. Barring a few (it will not be even 10) others won't be even IT assessees. I know of a very Senior Mridangam artist who is in the field for the last 40 years got paid Rs 1000 only 4 years back in one of the major Sabhas in Chennai. A mediocre IT graduate from any private Engg college gets Rs 20 lacs p.a with just 5 years experience. A TCS or Infosys employee or any Govt employee gets PF/Pension & in several companies excellent medical benefits & club membership; hefty bonus..... I agree with ticketing. But ticket sale will not fetch much revenue. Why not Govt Start Music Colleges & employ the musicians. Also AIR should start recruiting artists as before. If Govt can give free Television; Lap Top; Fan (probably in the next election AC & Fridge) why not support classical music artists. Ravikiran & other popular artists should meet Modi & make a strong case for increasing employment opportunities to musicians.

priyaram78 · Post by **priyaram78** » 20 Jan 2015, 10:38

If presented properly I am sure the Government will do the needful. Funds will be allocated, opportunities will be created to make CM a profession. The journey begins with one small step in this direction.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 20 Jan 2015, 11:40

Sri Chitraveena Ravikiran and many Great Maestros and Maestros formed Musicians Forum and they also had meeting with Dr.Manmohan Singh,PM and had discussions. As CR had expressed, nothing serious and concrete policy decisions and implementation can be expected in the near future.

First Artists must shed their pride and prejudice and join together. Ideate and make action plans-Standardization of Music Education System-primary, secondary and higher grades-teaching and practices; work for creation of National and International standards institutes-

Research;Archive;Recordings;promotion;marketing;audition and grading, once in every five years; Minimum professional fees to be fixed based on the grading system and strictly implemented;All the graded artists to be given opportunities in a planned manner with arrangement and agreement from the event managers;Popular artists,together, must create foundation with funds to meet the requirements of the education, practice, promotion of talented students and practitioners, other financial requirements of the graded artists, who are in need;Working together with the Governments-Central and State and the already established institutes for the arts to ensure introduction of teaching of performing arts-Music and Dance in schools and colleges-by both Public and Private managements;Professionalize the performing arts management; Make best use of technology in promoting Indian Classical Music for Global appreciation and reach and also create revenue generation models-Radio-Television-Web Sites and business arrangements;Increase the appreciation and reach of ICM, pan India by outreach program with the artists voluntary services;Hold conferences and performing events in all the important centers of music appreciation, at least twice in a year; establish working and funding arrangement for the corporate associations and representative bodies as a part of corporate social responsibility funds disbursement plan;work with the existing foundations and also with the leading funding clubs-Rotary and Lions and their likes for events management;educate and create sense of pride of contribution for the promotion of arts development and growth to the rasikas and patrons with arrangements for time share and resources sharing and contribution;create the avenues for co promotion of ICM with other genre of popular music, making the best use of the undercurrent mutual respect and appreciation.
With these ideas from this least knowledgeable individual and great ideas from the knowledgeable, both individual and collective and successful implementation, the resources will be generated, systems established, performing arts growth and development will be on the road of achieving excellence. With excellence, the music as a successful professional practice will become one of the choice of the talented youth. With youth taking to the performing arts in great numbers and rasikas supporting in very great numbers, the goal and objective of ICM and CM as a profession will be eminently served. Individual transformation resulting collective transformation only ensures well being of the arts and the artists.
munirao2001

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 20 Jan 2015, 21:41

Dear Sirs,
The Carnatic music profession as many other arts profession has no particular standard for payment.Supposing Government has to step in and give a fixed salary to musicians who are recognized.There must be a body perhaps like Sangeet Natak Academy which recommends the musicians for payment.This is a complicated affair as there should be many gradations - Grade A,Grade B,Grade C...A criteria to grade the artists must first be evolved.Over and above the fixed remuneration,the musician can earn depending on his potential.This method will ensure that a musician gets a minimum remuneration during his later years when he will not able to fulfill many engagements.The payment can be as little as 10,000/ per month in grade C or the last grade in case there are more grades.The highest level may be as high as Rs 1 Lakh a month.The entire budget covering all types of musicians in the entire country may be less than 100 crores per annum.Any way budget has to be worked out.In case this is complicated to do at National level,it can be done at state level so that each state can protect its talent by paying monthly fixed honorarium.
The Government perhaps cannot take the entire responsibility as demands will be made by others in various fields.Hence the state Governments should route these as grants to a reputed organisation like Music Academy in Chennai,Bangalore Gayana Samaja in Bangalore etc.The respective organisations wshould be entrusted with the responsibility of disbursement to the musicians enrolled/recognised.