Revolution in CM

[kvchellappa]

I think I should not prolong a discussion in the topic on ARI music on this digression.
In CM, what happened has been gradual change, even ragas have changed, I read. But, change is not the same as disruption, nor gradual change and branching into a style of one's own a revolution. What ARI did was capturing a change in mood in a format to reflect it. He had an idea and put it into action. But, TMK has only tried to turn it upside down. He has not introduced something that is a change in the sense it has added to the idea of presenting CM. He is a great singer and his music attracts listeners, but it is the quality of his music, not the order or lack of it. People still feel, 'OK we can stand it'. I do not think there is any welcome for it. Even his disciples know better to stick to the format. I have not seen any aesthetics or improvement in it. You do not start with an idea to overturn something if you are bringing a new idea. The new idea must have some substance, some consideration for the audience and a gentle handle to it. I find all these missing. Change will take place continuously and without it, there will be no life. That may not need emphasis. The point to consider is what the change is, how it is organic and how it takes CM forward.

[cacm]

I feel to even moderately attempt to change something one has to LEARN what one is trying to change. There has NOT been ENOUGH evidence OF THIS EXHIBITED.Just because one is somewhat talented in one area like voice, range etc it does not grant the person to aggressively act like publicly calling out an old man walking across who does not have a MIC with him, or just arbitrarily changing the historical order of songs in concerts WITHOUT explaining anything logically, saying one is singing for oneself (can be done in ones own house) & saying this is not a concert can only be called IMMATURITY combined with arrogance & TOTAL DISRESPECT TO the history of the music. This is no revolution but a "con" act to get publicity & remain in the discussion....VKV

[arasi]

Chellappa and VKV,
You both make me say this...

If I go to my grocery store after a spell and see that they have rearranged the goods which makes me search the aisles for the things I need--it frustrates me and it's a waste of my time. After a while of course, I get used to it and can easily remember where the things I look for are.

Not so with concerts of TMK. The few times I did hear him, in his new (now old) mode, I have stopped going to a favored supermarket--I mean, to a concert of his.
There is a big gap between experiencing music for one's own sake and sharing one's experience with others (which the concert format serves--with its own well established format).

Then again, we are all allowed, and do experience music for our own pleasure/happines/ joy. Trained musicians like him surely realize it in their riyAz ( sAdhakam, practice). So, is it necessary to make a performance of it?

Chellappa, you are so right when you say that even those among us who love his music and do go to hear him are not happy about his 'shuffle and serve at random' method of presenting a concert.

Mind you , many of us rasikAs (whom as I know them, are anything but conservative) get restless while tranquility is experienced by TMK by singing in this mode in his concerts!

In short, when unpredictability itself becomes the norm and so becomes predictable, what merit is attained by it? We rasikAs can be tough when even very good and properly formatted concerts are presented one after the other with more or less the same krutis--beautifully sung, but the list changes very little. And yet, such a concert is far superior to what seems to us like a whimsical concert. The surprise element TMK thinks a concert of his can offer (mind you, his inspiration dictates him)--that element only gives way to our flippantly asking: so, he will sing mangalam first and sing vAtApi at the end? VarNam, in between, of course.

Reminds me of how a most skilled sculptor--even a modern one (who knows the fundamentals of classicism) is totally occupied in creating his piece in his mind (practice in a vocalist's case) wherein he reaches the very heights of his imagination, and then tries to bring the experience of it to the piece he is sculpting (a musician bringing to stage his imaginative experience to share with the audience). Like the piece being sculpted, a concert takes shape, all within its form. The totality of his experience as a sculptor makes every stroke of his form a sculpture. The word 'contained' comes to mind.

Getting to work with no distractions, external or internal is the thing. Inspired singing can happen, with the 'help' of the form being intact. Form certainly is not a hindrance as I see it. In fact, form is what inspires one to take imaginative flights right there in the concert (not just in the artiste isolating himself from the concert experience)-- which is what happens among the singer and the listeners--and that's how it should be...

Wish I could hear TMK after ridding himself of his own notions about how a stage performance should be...

[kvchellappa]

A masterpiece, Arasi, it is art, music and poetry. Loved to read it. So sharp, but yet not offensive. No wonder your are the most popular at least in this forum.

[hnbhagavan]

Dear Sri KVChellappa,

Today the music world sadly misses the creative genius type - Sri Lalgudi g Jayaraman.Many do not know the extent of his creativity,most think of him as a violinist.He was a complete musician.There were many compositions by him as you know.He was instrumental in making violin what it is today.We are seeing many violin performances,but this is due to the effort put in 1980-90 period when Sri Lalgudi fought with giant organisations like Music Academy and he himself did not perform more than two or three times in the Music Academy.
The trio - Lalgudi-MSG-TNK period was a golden era in the history of carnatic music-be it accompaniment or solo performances.Fortunately we have Sri TNK still playing still at 84 years.His academy concert the last season was a great delight.
These days i do not experience such inspired performance.this is not to underplay the good work by many young violinists.

[vgovindan]

It is not the change that matters. If one has conviction, he/she may go about practising it without upsetting the apple cart. But, it is the hype about the change and use of rhetoric 'there is a lot of dirt in CM' etc. which makes one suspect the motive. His(TMK) lecture about 'rasikatva' as if a college professor delivering lecture to his students about literary appreciation - is another example. Rasikatva is in-built in every human - nay even in lower animals. Therefore, when one lectures about 'rasikatva' one suspects that he is doing propaganda about his virtues. There are many who brought in silent revolution in various fields - but they did not go about beating their drums. There is nothing wrong in expressing one's views. But one should be sensible about sensibilities of others.

Please listen - http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/r ... splay=utf8
Does it require rasikatva to enjoy the melody of this music? Is it any less than classicism of CM? I don't think so.

[arvind.brahmakal]

The new and improved version succeeds only if it better than the existing one - both in form and more importantly, in substance. ARI's innovation was of form and substance - form appeals to the mind and the substance to the heart. A combination of these two creates an X factor - something only within the realm of experience - beyond articulation.

TMK's innovation is intellectually compelling. Can this flower into that X factor ? - jury is still out on this. I wish him the best in his creative exploits

[vasanthakokilam]

I was struggling to put into words a few things I was thinking but then Arasi's last sentence gave a form to that. Let me explain.

Wish I could hear TMK after ridding himself of his own notions about how a stage performance should be...

While that may or may not happen, it is not that material because we all have other choices. So let us aside TMK for a second.

What Arasi says applies to each one of us.

"Wish we could hear music after ridding ourselves of our own notions about how a stage performance should be"

If at all there is one person who imprisons an artist and possibly eventually kills the artistry in them is their biggest and loyal fan. Counter intuitive it indeed is, but they are the ones (and not the one who hate the artist ) who imprisons the artist in the narrow confines of their own expectations, likes and dislikes.

There are indeed a few rare people who somehow break free of that and set a course for themselves and manage to take a subset of the fans with them. They are the ones who lay a new path. They are usually a bit on the boisterous and maverik side, not the meek. One needs to be that to free oneself from that love bondage. They need to risk losing you as a fan.

[cacm]

The new and improved version succeeds only if it better than the existing one - both in form and more importantly, in substance. ARI's innovation was of form and substance - form appeals to the mind and the substance to the heart. A combination of these two creates an X factor - something only within the realm of experience - beyond articulation.

TMK's innovation is intellectually compelling. Can this flower into that X factor ? - jury is still out on this. I wish him the best in his creative exploits

"TMK's innovation is intellectually compelling".
CAN YOU ELABORATE WHAT THE INVENTION IS? I am quite frankly interested in learning what it is so I can discuss it intelligently. Right now I do not know what it is & I am not able to define what it is. VKV

[hnbhagavan]

I feel that innovation has to be path breaking .In this sense Araikudi established a format which has stood test of times.Because of this established pattern,TMK cannot bring about anything new by simply changing the order in which he sings or simply by singing Alapana and saying that it is complete by itself.
People still throng to his concerts because of his earlier contribution and hoping that he would emerge out of this and do whatever most others in his league are doing-say sanjay,Vijaya Siva etc.
I pointed out an instance of the era of LGJ-TNK-MSG which brought a revolution of sorts in violin playing and accompaniment.The present generation are following the path laid out by these stalwarts which is itself a stupendous task.
In any field including scientific exploits,after achieving good progress,further progress will be slow and some times repetitive.It has happened in space research.After doing Communications satellite,remote sensing etc,USA,Russia etc explored the outer space - visiting Moon,Mars etc in 1970's and 1980's.
After a while they felt that the resources required for such exploration is too high and abandoned.But once again USA,India and other space nations are exploring the outer space again.But progress is very slow and nothing visibly useful to mankind is achieved.
In carnatic music also a vast amount of progress has been achieved - spearheaded by araikudi,Semmangudi ,GNB and many more doyens.Further progress in carnatic music will be slow and needs big effort.It looks as though even to preserve what has been achieved is a stupendous task.

[arasi]

Points taken bhagwan, but being silly me and as being a woman who has seen mighty fashion parade through the passing years, I shudder how the beautiful sari has been experimented with in recent years by designers to be worn in ways I wouldn't have dreamed of even Am I just speaking aesthetics here? Yes, and more. Unless the designers have a better way to dress a woman in a sari, I will stick with the graceful drape (not many women sport it now, opting for order by pinning and stopping the sari's flow. In my school days in ancient India only some school teachers wore them that way, with a shoulder pin!).

I am hoping, as with southern women considering the gujarati way of wearing the sari some years ago to show off the pallu is passe now, shuffled structure of a house of cards in the name of inspiration is going to be replaced by some new brilliant idea by TMK in enhancing the concert experience which he will be sharing with us in the coming years...

Kokilam,
Fans, faithful fans can also play a part in the growth of an artiste. After all, fans inspire them to do even better. They help in maintaining the quality of their performance. I don't mean sycophants, of course!

Prime example: what VKV and other ardent fans like him meant to MMI then, and mean now

[Nick H]

How long did it take Araikudi's format to become accepted as the norm by other performers? Was it a year? five years? In the same decade?

So far, TMK is singing a lone song. If it is meant to "revoluntionise" CM, then how long do we give it? If it remains a lone song, then it remains the trademark of a TMK performance, and we should not try to see it as anything else

[munirao2001]

I am distressed to read the postings. All the results of conditioning of the minds. A conditioned mind with pleasure of the listening experience(s), seeks its recall experience(s). Yearning is not really the artists creativity, but one's own expectation of sense of fulfillment based on one's own conditioning of the mind. The mind is not in the present, past in the present. Past making the judgment. The present, if different, the settled mind in expectation of the past in the present, rejects the present. The mind in rejection seeks its own justification for the sense of insecurity. With sense of insecurity and non fulfillment, the mind also can be disturbed and confused. In confusion, lack of openness obstructs the sensitivity and objectivity. The beauty in the present creativity offering the values and experiences are totally missed, very unfortunately. The seeker of pleasure has to uncondition the mind. In inquiry, seek the clarity and understanding. Experience, anew, afresh in freedom, freedom from the past and past in the future.
TMK is not the first artist or going to be the last artist in the realization of perception of beauty of certain aspects of artistic creativity and its urge for spontaneity in expression or communication in a performance. Great Genius and Great Maestros like MVI, Mali, SB and MDR in deep introspection, sensed the beauty, in unconditioned and unfettered sampradaya, their insights and experiences were offered to the rasikas, being together in creative forays and listening of great experiences of beauty. TMK has also joined them. For all these maestros, the centrality of CM, as one of the greatest art forms lies in the musicality, its rich values, in each svara, its movements, each composition and its richness in aesthetic beauty and each form of creative tools in manodharmam-raaga aalaapana;tana;patantara purity in composition;niraval;pallavi;svarakalpana. For the ease and comfort of mind reveling in recall pleasure, it is disorder. For the unconditioned mind, with perception of beauty and aesthetic, the order is in the values of the artists treatment and delineation and reverence to the creativity of the original and re creativity.

TMK is highly knowledgeable in both lakshana and lakshya aspects of CM. TMK has very rich experience as a performer of great merits over two decades winning the acceptance and appreciation of Great Maestros and Maestros and also the discerning rasikas. I urge every one to read his writings and oral communication with all the seriousness it demands and deserves to understand the artist, of great merits. I am strictly confining to the CM aspects only.

munirao2001

[hnbhagavan]

Madam arasi,
thank u for ur views and definitely coming from a very knowledgeable person who has decades of experience in music.The saree draping indeed underwent meaningful changes including the pinning to make it look very elegant instead of simply hanging as in earlier years.
Mr.Nick's question on the number of years it took to accept the kutcheri format of ARI.This should be answered by those who experienced the music in pre ARI and post ARI era.Perhaps there may be only views from post ARI than pre ARI.One thing is for sure that this format has been successfully used for concerts of 4-5 hours as well as 1-3 hours duration.There is enough flexibility and there are very successful concerts even in 1:30 - 02:00 hrs duration.
I have attended Sri TMK 's concert in which he has wound up after alapana and did not sing any song in the raga.The feeling of something incomplete was felt by me and several others who attended.Many have given up attending TMK's programs after his changed concert pattern.I still attend as
Sri TM Krishna is definitely one of the contemporary experts in Carnatic music.Definitely i am not competent to air such views.My opinion is purely from a lay listener's point of view.

[arasi]

If you are a lay listener, I'm even more so. If I begin to say anything at all about lakshaNa sangeetham, I'd sound like an ace village idiot. My only qualification (if I can call it that) to say anything at all about this, is my many years of listening to music as a rasikA. In a way, it's not that bad. All of us agree--whatever our level in rasikatva--is our desire to see CM draw more and more people into the listeners' fold. And, it's lay listeners like me we have in mind. Not the pundits or the elite among rasikAs (and yes, hopefully some new young rasikAs will become experts too, because we will need them too for the future).

Munirao,
I think we are focusing here on TMK's stage performance and how it affects the listeners in a given concert.
If we scroll back and read all the reviews here on TMK, there emerges a refrain: he sang beautifully....his voice effortlessly reached the upper octaves, A rAgA was beautifully sung...
And yet, the general feeling would reflect a regret about the lack of wholesomeness of a performance.

TMK's vidvat, understanding and svAnubhava are not questioned at all. It's just the way he de-constructs a concert (in the view of some of us) which is frustrating. 'The lone singer' as Nick says, cannot be a pied piper, though some of you make out this lone singing on stage as if his tune is the ultimate.

Sorry, Bhagwan, I meant the opposite about a rigidly pinned sari but didn't make it clear perhaps. I much prefer the flowing sari, just as I like the uninterrupted flow of a concert--with surprise elements, yes, but not deliberate up side down features which do not speak to me of inspired , solitude triggered bliss...
Don't want to drop names, but I will--NSG's voice is not what he possessed years ago, but to this day, I'm drawn to his music. It's a fulfilling experience for me to be part of a performance where vidvat, imagination, exploration please to a great extent, rather than take sharp unexpected turns and leave me a wayward traveler in my musical journey.

Will end with the only too familiar LBR (lOKO bhinna ruchi) to save myself

[kvchellappa]

A rasika must have some taste as the word implies, but he does not decide the quality of the fare. We cannot equate a rasika with the artist and prescribe the same yardstick to the rasika as the artist. For example, an artist cannot prescribe that alapana is self-complete and the rasika must enjoy it and his lack of enjoyment is due to conditioning of mind. I can only remember how mothers used to force down castor oil in their children’s mouth in the hope it was good (a discontinued administration). The artist owes more to the rasika than the other way.
The concert or musical offering platform is not a laboratory. It is not the place to go with gay abandon on one’s mind track. The greats of yester years cared for the audience and presented well-rehearsed items. PSN has said that SSI used to sing better outside a concert. It was not that he held something in reserve, but as he himself said he observed a sense of proportion and restraint.
It cannot be the argument, as some imply, that since TMK’s music is authentic, his views on music must be all right. If he needs a whole book to make one understand the reasonableness of his views, it must be complicated and beyond an ordinary person. It cannot be said that no one other than TMK has an aesthetic idea of what makes music and what expression of it is creative.
As to conditioning of mind, I wonder why CM is not popular if it does not require conditioning and cultivation of taste. Music is universal, but a particular genre requires some conditioning perhaps.
Germane to the topic is Sri VKV’s query: What is on offer? TMK himself says he is not offering any alternative (I do not and I cannot, he said in a reply).
Even an intelligent child throws up petulant outbursts and tantrums.

[arasi]

And we don't want to see adult rasikAs throw a tantrum, however acceptable it may seem to some adults...

[music1]

Is TMK forcing his ideas down the throat of the listeners. He is bringing certain innovations or experimentation (whatever you may call it). Liking or not liking is purely the freedom of the listeners. If rasikas like it and other artists follow it, it may stay, else it will fade away with time.

What I dislike the most is, rasikas attending the concert and then complaining about the completeness, hallowness, shallowness etc etc. There are so many artists and so many sabhas (proliferated over the years). All of you have the choice to attend an alternative concert, else listen to some recordings at home !

BTW, I am no fan of TMK and I do not follow his music. I do not attend concerts, but I do listen to a lot of music which is recorded (young and old).

Very recently after many many years, I attended a concert of Sri Ajoy Chakraborty. A GREAT ARTIST. He started the concert with a statement with so much conviction that " I run a music school where I and my colleagues teach more than a 1000 students. I am confident I will be able to make out of the 1000, at least a couple of dozen quality musicians. Indian Classical Music is under no threat ".

Therefore, TMK's innovations or experimentation will not cause any damage. KINDLY STOP THIS BASHING, which is very silly of us all !

[arasi]

I agree. There are reams of posts here about TMK's new found music. But bashing? A few indulge in it, but if you have the patience to wade through it, you will find many of us talking just about his present day concert format.

Agreed. Some complain about it, and still go to his concerts. Others just have stopped. I'm waiting until he comes back to his old ways (another way to say it is--that he stays with a concert format--Ari needn't come into the picture--even though he's supposed to have introduced it).

TMK's own guru stuck with it. I was not a fan of Semmangudi in my childhood years (shame on me!), I thought he was bo...ring ) Then again, Ari and Maharajapuram and GNB and dear MMI sang to my heart's delight.

Another example. An extraordinarily gifted singer from a great school, full of promise and of a delightful voice was simply wonderful to listen to. With fame came less of serious involvement in music. Sound came not from the nAbhi but the artiste lets sweet sounds play at lip level. After a few concerts which disappointed me, I stopped going.

So, It's only our impressions, and at times our collective experience that we discuss here. A bit of bashing goes on occasionally, but they are far and few. Most of us are not guilty of it!

You are also right in saying that there's plenty to hear on Youtube of their music, and that's enough for now...

[cacm]

Is TMK forcing his ideas down the throat of the listeners. He is bringing certain innovations or experimentation (whatever you may call it).

Can you list a few of his "certain inventions"? The ones so far listed by others are NEGATIVES so far. reversing order of Varnam, Bhavamana, asking violinst to play anything he wants,singing a raga & kriti in another incompletly are foolish attempts that should not be encouraged by majority of Rasikas who pay money & expect expertise without mishmash, insulting the audience esp. an old man (not me) when he had to walk across stage to answer nature's call etc are rank bad behaviour. Can we spank him publicly on stage for bad behaviour? Ridiculous things should be pointed out & not allowed. Compared with Ariyakudi's divine inspiration in coming up with his scheme which he has seriously questioned except stating his right to do anything he wants & feels these are ridiculous in nature and deserve condemnation. In my opinion he gets a big fat zero... like others to express where I am wrong &express their views.....waste of time discussing stupid things....VKV

[vasanthakokilam]

VKV, let me bring some balance since you are way on one side of this. True, there have been such bad behaviors and you are right on those. But on the musical aspects, let us consider singing ramamalika thanam outside the context of RTP. People call that revolution ( in the negative sense, as in this thread ) but it is not. It is going back to a tradition that has disappeared in the past 100+ years. Second thing people harp about is singing varnam in the middle and several variations on it like Ragam-thanam-varnam. These are all great things to try and see if it works. Singing Varnam in a concert itself is a relatively new phenomenon and why not try adapting it to other circumstances. I think those are high musical ideals to pursue. if it does not work, discard it. Same manner, even better in fact is, ragam-thanam-thillana . it is not easy to even conceptualize it properly let alone execute it.

Those are the few examples that come to my mind which can add balance to the point of view you expressed.

[SrinathK]

Wow. I seem to have wandered into a minefield here.

Sometimes I really wonder if the complaint is more about the person or due to the music. Do tell me, how did the rasikas put up with Mali or TNR? Today all the comments I read are only about the best of their music. When we have put up with stuff like THAT, I think we are making too much emotion into the "jerk" incidents here and there. My 2 paise. Of course, bear in mind I am an outsider. I think people involved with CM at a more personal level wouldn't be very happy if they saw their histories written with some inaccuracies (though what they are, I don't know, so it's not my business at all).

I wish the internet was around when Thyagaraja elaborated Devagandhari on 7 days back to back. For added spice, we should have been there. I must wonder, would he have lost a few fans there? I wonder what the newspaper review would have been ! Of course one must remember, Thyagaraja Swami only sang for Raama. But still, such a thing can never be attempted today, can it? None of these complaints are really against new inventions -- they are actually complaints about things being far too old to be considered acceptable today.

Experimentation naturally leads to a large number of rejected ideas but the few that come out can be great ones. A Varnam elevated to the masterpiece position (the versatility of this composition form whether melodically or rhythmically or lyrically or emotionally has so far never been fully explored IMHO -- In this regard LGJ was one name who took varnams into new dimensions) -- note ARI did do kalpanaswaras on varnams. Neraval and kalpanaswaras on a thillana was another good idea.

Name a musician who has not been bashed by some part of the fanbase, in any time, any place, any genre. You won't find any. I mean, the kind of criticism that LGJ got for many of his ideas like the veena-venu-violin concept or GNB got for well...pretty much everything defining GNB (brighas, shruti bhedam, new ragas, nadaswara phrases) are some painful examples -- GNB was particularly unfortunate to have hecklers in the audience who were just there to mess with his mind if he slipped up. That was how much hate some in the audience were capable of. It is a scary thought. What would have happened if internet forums existed at that time?

Even MSS has been bashed around for(as I would put it) having a very varied repertoire of composers outside CM and singing in everything from Tamil to Japanese. Even MMI despite his superlative musical talent, massive repertoire and skill to sing any raga had to learn in the beginning that the rasikas could appreciate only so much of rare ragas. Or MSG for his very distinctive style.

For all we know, ARI's paradigm was a box office breaker with the fanbase, but had he done that 50 years earlier it might have even bombed. Circumstances change, people change and the music paradigms change along with it. While ARI has to be given credit for the concert pattern, the audience also has to take part of the responsibility.

Indeed despite me learning and listening music for so long, now that the song list I am making (of the songs I am FAMILIAR with) is crossing the 900 mark, each new song is harder and harder and much less familiar -- it is now asking me to step out of my comfort zone altogether and it's not so easy, but still this is exactly what I have wanted to do -- expand my horizons. I mean I have been witness to a lot of audience members leaving if the musician sang something that was even a tad unfamiliar to them and I can understand, few in the audience will push past their comfort zone. Most people think I'm a freak for going this deep into CM (which is a subset of those who think I am a freak for just being into CM ), but still, what do I do? There's an urge in me and some of it got driven by the fact that I started learning a little late and often couldn't find proper details of the tala to help me out -- I also feel my effort may someday help many rasikas out. There's also an urge in me to find a way to render any talanga on the feet taking the counting out of my head (something that came about because I learnt the violin and there was no one in my house who could even put a talam to help me out for years until I discovered metronomes). Necessity drives the creative urge. I assure you if I was a quarter as good as TMK in neraval, I might have tried it everywhere. It's a force of nature, this artistic urge. Anyone who has experienced it can tell you.

By the way, it is true that artistes can output more off the stage than on it. LGJ himself said that everything he did on stage was barely a third of his true capability. I have read his biography back to front -- there was even an incident where LGJ lost his patience with a critic who had been panning him for years for his concert planning (just the fact that he planned his concerts) and astonishingly, for lack of bhava (I will never understand this statement). This was promptly reported in the paper stating that if an artiste didn't understand that performing in public means that criticism is inevitable sooner or later, he can better play at home. (True story, and painful to read). Let's also not forget that he tried to bring in orchestration into his thillana album. A true artists' mind never loses that child like fascination to explore it's art.

An anecdote about GNB coming up with some astonishing phrases in some ragas, but not willing to sing them on stage has to bear mention (this forum was the source). The violinist Eric Friedman once said to one of his students (a sensitive girl) in his first class "It is not about IF you will meet a critic, but WHEN". But the point is this, why do the artistes say these things? The answer is that at some point one's own artistic urge will grow to a point where it demands it's freedom to explore the full depth of it's capability. A neraval specialist would at some point, want to extend his inspiration beyond just krithis. A swara specialist would at some point want to explore unheard of ragas. The urge to create may make one a true composer to deepen one's personal experience and expression of music (something that is often misunderstood as an act of irreverence to past composers). And when that happens, there will always be someone who won't like the artiste for taking them out of their comfort zone. The plasticity of a child's brain is amazing. How stiff the same brain can become with time is an equally astonishing phenomenon.

Here's another possibility. If CM continues to become any more popular, it is only a matter of time before compositions will arise in languages that have never been used before -- would the audience be ready for it ? It will not happen without criticism, that's a certainty.

Time heals a lot of wounds. Every great name in music today has been recognized adequately only long past their time -- with much of the past forgiven and forgotten. The amount of regard we have for our old heroes is staggering (and well deserved), and yet if we were to go back in time and listen to them live, I fear that our ideas of many of them might come down a little closer to earth.

The concert has always been a balancing act between the artiste's and the audience's desires. What we are seeing is the result of what happens when the pendulum swings noticeably in one way (and it has also swung the other way). It will take a while for equilibrium to be restored. The impact of all these is that maybe 1 or 2 in a hundred ideas will make a permanent mark in the long run. For e.g. The idea of "kevala raga alapana" of the courts turned into ragamalika alapanas and made it's way into shlokas and viruthams and it was GNB who brought it to the form where the last raga would be a precursor to the following number.

Think about the bright side, Varnams as a whole may become more versatile than ever before in history and thillanas may become weightier pieces. I never had a problem with varnams as they are indeed more technically complex than krithis (though most of the 19th century varnams have a very limited vocabulary). CM may also try to explore a greater range of tempos (WCM has 20 different tempos -- how many are popular in CM?). The tanam may (if someone has the boldness to push it forward) regain it's place on par with the alapana. Accompanists may get a better deal both musically and financially. Gender discrimination could be reduced. CM could appeal once again to more people. The nadaswaram could have better days ahead if everyone would co-operate. So this much negative energy towards a quest for a new vision is IMHO, not healthy. To say that varnam makes a good opening piece in my opinion is a very correct statement, one that came after a lot of thought and some experimentation. But the same thought and experimentation has also managed to explore it in many different forms -- I cannot deny how versatile this form is.

Again we must know that what we revere as traditions today were once the product of inspiration, thought, ideas and experiment amidst both praise and criticism -- it's democracy that makes innovation tradition. When we get upset over what we feel is a violation of "tradition", many of us are guilty for having lost sight of the process that gave rise to it in the first place -- even some of us who are otherwise curious, analytic, creative and bubbling with ideas (and hail from reputed institutions encouraging research and innovation) can become quite the opposite when the sacred doctrine mindset takes over us. I admit that has happened to me more than once.

But someone has to play the villain to explore the art further. A "Yes" man who doesn't know the word "No" is not the type whose personal space or vision ever gets respected, whether at work or at home or in music. Just imagine the horror story that would exist today if Thyagaraja had decided his artistic inspiration was an insult to past composers !!

Perhaps we should look deeper into what kinds of artistic ideas, paradigms and inspirations various artistes have explored in the privacy of their homes and heads, where they are far away from "trial by audience" -- stuff that never quite saw the light of day, stuff that only another artiste would understand. But wait, maybe someone is doing that already...

[cacm]

Dear Vasanthakokilam & Srinath k,
I have no objection to what you have written & your points about Varnam are good & I agree with them. But I do not like to be made a fool & even if I am one for that point to be made by RUBBING IT IN a concert. PLEASE DO NOT THINK I HAVE A PERSONAL VENDETTA. I actually know & like TMK but for his own good if I am honest I have to point out things. Once you are in a public arena you will be judged more critically......
Reg Mali & TNR, I have attended lots of concerts; I NEVER RECALL AN INSTANCE when MALI ever insulted any member of his audience. Actually I was shocked (in intermediate before I knew him well) when he asked me at the end of his concert how he had played that day! In the case of TNR HE NEVER intertacted with the audience & SO MANY PROMINENT VIDWANS were in attendence ordinary Joes had no way of getting anywhere near him!
Mali was teaching his accompanist while PLAYING which they were grateful for & it helped non-experts like me also...VKV
Dear Vasanthakokilam,
After I finished I REALISED that SEM used to sing GANARAGA THANAM IN THE FIVE RAGAS ESP. if he did not go to Thiruvaiyaru in his concert after Thiruvaiyaru. Also VEENA GREATS LIKE S.B. USED TO DO RAGAMALIKA THANAMS often. MANY OTHER Veena artists did too & it was claimed it was to bring out speciality of Veena. I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER IT COUNTS IN YOUR "INNOVATION" Criterion? vkv

[cacm]

Wow. I seem to have wandered into a minefield here.
Sometimes I really wonder if the complaint is more about the person or due to the music.

At least in my case I have no complaints whatsoever. I am trying to understand things especially as the comparison is with ARIYAKUDI who has been credited by his colleague musicians as well as the public & the claims by this person(mostly without saying why) which I feel are not logical and lacking in details. I am expressing in great detail why ARI is considered the saviour of CM in another thread. Since this thread is about TMK I AM TRYING TO LEARN & AM LEARNING THINGS....vkv

[rshankar]

Srinath - well articulated views...and very much puts things in perspective. However, I think what distinguishes Sri TMK from the other examples you have quoted is the (perceived, perhaps) concept that his changes (or what he's getting bashed for) appear to stem from a indifference/disregard/disrespect for what has happened before. All of the people you have quoted were trying something that appealed to them, without putting down or quetioning the prevailing custom/tradition - so I think that is the major difference.

And if I may, I want to put my perspective on this statement (I know it is not yours):

there was even an incident where LGJ lost his patience with a critic who had been panning him for years for his concert planning (just the fact that he planned his concerts) and astonishingly, for lack of bhava (I will never understand this statement). This was promptly reported in the paper stating that if an artiste didn't understand that performing in public means that criticism is inevitable sooner or later, he can better play at home

I think there is a conception (very, very, very eroneous, IMO) that self-appointed, or newspaper-appointed critics' views are truly representative of the public/audience. I think this delusion (of grandeur) can be dangerous. After reading many (not all) published reviews, a question I ask myself is 'who died for this c**p to be published?'.

[SrinathK]

I also must agree that with the loss of royal patronage and the arrival of the gramaphone, ARI and others did the right thing in the circumstances. Being a very senior scientist yourself sir, you may understand very well what it's like to be labelled a geek and maybe a 7-day exploration of a raga was geeky enough for the classroom or the CM research lab, but wouldn't work out well on a stage. The trend in my opinion goes back even further to the time of the trinity -- Thyagaraja is one example who had simplified his compositions so that this sangeetham would be understood more easily. Some of Ramaswamy Dikshitar's experiments have been way more complex than even his son's! Even ARI has sung his tiruppavais as full heavy items while today I have never heard a tiruppavai as anything other than a thukkada.

As CM continues to go global, and with the advent of digital media no longer limited by the playing time of gramaphones and cassettes, I wonder if audiences' tastes are again changing. A new audience would not resist a Ragam-Tanam-Varnam as much as a seasoned one would. Is manodharmam again making a comeback? An artistic inspiration is driven by a need, whatever that is. Was it because of issues such as gender discrimination and overall (below par) treatment of accompanists or the recognition that our art form still has more dimensions to explore (Varnams IMHO certainly do) or that tanam and manodharma has taken a backseat somewhat ? I agree. Now an artiste may say that the lighter numbers are not needed, but as a music listener I like them heavy or light (Tiruppugazh can be a main item as one LGJ recording I have shows) and I understand a LOT of compositions came into the spotlight only through that gate. So there I have to disagree.

It may also be that an artiste seeks to try and be a specialist in one area in an era where everyone is expected to be a general practitioner so some things are left to others. There are also other paradigms -- WCM has survived despite introducing the major concerto or the sonata as the first item with some lighter numbers afterward (the practice is now not popular). But such an undertaking is seldom done on a whim. There has to be a real necessity that acts as the driving force. LGJ composed a new varnam in Mohanam because there was only the simple Ninnu kori that had being doing the rounds for more than a century. So there has to be that need. Would I wish to hear an all night alapana of some raga? YES. If no opportunity to listen was available and I was that desperate, I might try it myself if I had the skill (which I don't, but still the prospect excites me) -- if no one wants to listen I would still try it alone at home. Would I compose? Well if my heart was touched deep enough, I could. The same urge that wants to make me write my thoughts out would express itself through music. But there is a need, an incident, an experience, a driving force behind an artiste. I am trying to learn tala on the feet by myself after much frustration which only I know (it was a VERY bad day when I was left stuck on the stage once where no one was around to help me either on the stage or in the audience and I have never forgotten that feeling -- not only did I screw up badly, I also think I spoiled the concert of whoever I was playing for. I came back thinking as to how this single hole in my skill set had stopped my playing from improving). Likewise after school I had been out of practice for a long time and I realized my hand was barely able to play. The result of that inspired me to find some good exercise to develop my hand and fingers and it's solely because of that that I can play the violin again at all.

The effect of the pent up emotion from such experiences however, may sometimes make me say some thing harsh if I see some teachers not teaching these things right at the beginning -- in my mind I would not want anyone else to suffer that embarrassment and I might get worked up by reliving the memory. I could just call it bad names and put others down, but that could make my intentions misunderstood and as such is really not a good way of gaining support for your cause -- in the end you'll just be known as the jerk. On the other hand, if I kept my cool and explained properly the reasons for my efforts, it would work out way better and it would be understood and appreciated. At least in the case of CM's evolution, I noticed that every artist had a reason, a motivation for doing the things they did.

So I don't accept that people with dedication, substantial vidwath and awareness of the evolution of the art form would do anything on a mere whim. The issue of communicating one's experience to the heart of another though, is an entirely different art in itself. Fortunately the forum is giving me good practice at this.

I haven't fully read his book yet -- I left it in Chennai unfortunately. Whatever little I read did answer some of my questions.

[cacm]

Srinath - well articulated views...and very much puts things in perspective. However, I think what distinguishes Sri TMK from the other examples you have quoted is the (perceived, perhaps) concept that his changes (or what he's getting bashed for) appear to stem from a indifference/disregard/disrespect for what has happened before. All of the people you have quoted were trying something that appealed to them, without putting down or quetioning the prevailing custom/tradition - so I think that is the major difference.

And if I may, I want to put my perspective on this statement (I know it is not yours):

there was even an incident where LGJ lost his patience with a critic who had been panning him for years for his concert planning (just the fact that he planned his concerts) and astonishingly, for lack of bhava (I will never understand this statement). This was promptly reported in the paper stating that if an artiste didn't understand that performing in public means that criticism is inevitable sooner or later, he can better play at home

I think there is a conception (very, very, very eroneous, IMO) that self-appointed, or newspaper-appointed critics' views are truly representative of the public/audience. I think this delusion (of grandeur) can be dangerous. After reading many (not all) published reviews, a question I ask myself is 'who died for this c**p to be published?'.

Dear R, I agree in general with what you have written. EXCEPT in TMK'S CASE what is generally called "VERBAL DIAHORRIA" appears to get him into untenable situations where when questioned he finds himself backed to the wall & he tries to get out by crass insults of what most followers of c.m. by attacking GENERALLY ACCEPTED GREATS LIKE ARI, MMI etc. It is unfortunate. For example just ducking & when forced just saying MMI was not such a great musician etc without any explanation but using MMI'S swara strenghts etc in his lec/dem is pathetic. He is in the PUBLIC ARENA & WILL BE ATTCKED. I can also state that NOT giving hundred percent of one's energy is not likely to yield OPTIMUM RESULTS....VKV

[Vagadeeshwari]

SrinathK,

wow…what a breath of fresh air and thanks for the much needed respite from the rhetorical/evangelical posts. The way you dissected CM history with so much care, polish and authenticity! Thanks a ton for your objective/eloquent expression.

[cacm]

I Even ARI has sung his tiruppavais as full heavy items while today I have never heard a tiruppavai as anything other than a thukkada.

Dear Srinathk, I just wish to point out that MMI has sung both Tirupugazh & Tiruppavai as MAJOR items MANY TIMES. I MYSELF HAVE ARRANGED A LECTURE in Ragasudha Sudha Hall when I was arranging annual meetings with experts on MMI the AMAZING original SWARAPRASTHARAS IN CONJUNCTION WITH HOW HIS "SARVA LAGHU" was very complex & K.S.Kalidas(Last disciple of PSP) played a Recording of THULLUMADHA VETKAI where PSP& LGJ INSPIRED MMI & he has sung a brilliant SWARA SEQUENCE FOR CLOSE TO 15 MINUTES COMBINING nadais, Misram, Thisram etc all in Sarvalaghu which KALIDAS USED TO explain the COMPLEXITY of MMI'S SARVALAGHU style which he said was very complex. Alathur Bros not to mention Somu have sung Thirupugazhs FOR OVER AN HOUR as main item & when I was growing up Tirupugazh as a major item in concerts. Somu, Chittoor Subramanya Pillai, Kanchipuram Naina Pillai (I have not heard in person BUT S.RAJAM SANG WHAT HE USED TO ETC) have all sang TIRUPUGAzH in GREAT DEPTH & DETAIL.. EXPERTS like Tambaram Ekambaram have rendered ALL TIRUPUGAZGH Concerts also....VKV

[cacm]

LGJ composed a new varnam in Mohanam because there was only the simple Ninnu kori that had being doing the rounds for more than a century.

I heard from LGJ himself that his sudden urge to compose the Mohanam varnam came after he had played in three successive concerts in which Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer, GNB & MMI SANG MOHANAM AS MAIN ITEM & HE WAS WONDERING ABOUT HOW three great artists can sing 3 different versions of Mohanam! From my dealings with LGJ he was not the type who worried about "doing the rounds" etc because he was very particular the song be right. This is what made him modify "Nadaloludai" the way he did to preserve the original way records appeared to say.. He was very much for preserving the originals UNLESS they were proved to be wrong based on RESEARCH.......VKV

[hnbhagavan]

Dear CACM Sir,

This is what is called creativity.You have given a good example.An accompanist who was not playing blindly,but with thinking and purpose.He understood the different versions of Mohanam sung by stalwarts and perhaps came with his creations/modifications.

[varsha]

http://www.personal.kent.edu/~jdrake3/J ... ics11.html
Excerpts from a lovely treatise .
http://ddong.narod.ru/deweyen2/txt06.htm
The full lext of chapter 6 on Substance and Form

I personally dont find TMK's approach offensive . Intimidating it may be , to many .The "Carnatic" mind is one of the most conditioned . On a rail journey while returning home , the subject of the essential difference between CM and HM cropped up . Dad explained how CM was a bit like the rail journey . It had a bradshaw of its own , the varieties of stations that came enroute , small , medium , big . The sense of comfort in running over two parallel rails .And so on .
And what about HM ? We kids piped in . He took one look around . The train had stopped , waiting for the signal from our local station . We were five kms away .
He hopped down suddenly , onto the field . We scrambled too .
And taking one look at the direction where our home lay we started to cross the field . Unsure of each step.But knowing our destination .
This is a bit like HM he explained . And that story has stayed with me .

Dont judge TMK too harshly . He is better than the Gomukha Vyagrahs who peddle pathetic stuff as CM .
In a world that is starved of self believers , he is trying something . And honest in his opinion .
I will be sad if he goes the way of the rest and conforms.
His access to media , his PR , views on a hundred things may make us jealous.
Having said this much , some of his methods does not make sense .
But " Being sensible " was never the aim of Art .

[cacm]

Dear Varsha, VERY INTERESTING. Will read it in detail. Thanks. I am particularly interesting as I have been pursuing what has been classified as " Objective Truth" and "Subjective Truth". Subjects like Physics(one I am familiar with in a rigourous sense come under Objective sense) & Music( usually comes under "Subjective Truth"). But now a days with the latest scientific advances BOTH are getting intermingled. What you have referenced here appears to have relevence to understanding these aspects better. VKV

[varsha]

Thanks . I am just trying to broaden the perspective . Nothing more . My bottomline shall always be : IS THE ARTIST PERFORMING FOR ME , ME , IN THIS CORNER OF THE WORLD WHERE HE DOES NOT EVEN KNOW THAT I EXIST !!!!

Tadepalli Lokanatha Sarma , in his lec dem this season , spoke on some innovations he was obsessed with , for over a decade now. On how he thought he could prise out Tyagarajas innermost feelings , with a heady juxtaposition of words and phrases in his neravals ( Something we have discussed before ) . Instead of singing them linearly , if I may use this phrase .
This is an innovation that has gone largely unnoticed , but merits consideration in my humble opinion . I could play excerpts from that lec dem if someone is interested.Stealthily recorded for sake of posterity since we were only six in the audience A pity .

[vasanthakokilam]

After I finished I REALISED that SEM used to sing GANARAGA THANAM IN THE FIVE RAGAS ESP. if he did not go to Thiruvaiyaru in his concert after Thiruvaiyaru. Also VEENA GREATS LIKE S.B. USED TO DO RAGAMALIKA THANAMS often. MANY OTHER Veena artists did too & it was claimed it was to bring out speciality of Veena. I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER IT COUNTS IN YOUR "INNOVATION" Criterion? vkv

vkv, just to set the record straight, I am saying it is not an innovation. Such things were in common practice 100+ years back. But when a person like TMK does that, people decry that as misguided attempt at innovation. If I recall right, he himself had said these are not innovations.

[cacm]

Dear Varsha, PLEASE DO. As you know NERAVALS are very crucial in my opinion that separated the ARI,GNB,MMI & MSS from the REST. Lokanatha Sarma is one of the GREATS whom did not have mass appeal because he was so sincere in his approach. When I was involved with Saraswathi long ago N.V.SUBRAMANIAN ALWAYS made sure this gem was presented as often to the public as possible.I am tempted to start another section on why Carnatic music appeals INDEPENDENT OF THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS. For example when I was in a crowd of over a thousand I ALWAYS FELT M.S.S. was singing just to me on a one to one basis. The EMPATHY was what made it so special. Similarly when MMI SANG "ETHANAIYO PIRAVI" OR "INTHA PARAMUKHAM" I could see & feel a DIRECT APPEAL BY MMI to the almighty!The power of the composer combined with the sincerity & EMPATHY I feel is the ultimate strength of our music which with the RIGHT PERSON can bring back all the 5000 years of our culture, history & MUSIC. REGS, VKV

[cacm]

vkv wrote "After I finished I REALISED that SEM used to sing GANARAGA THANAM IN THE FIVE RAGAS ESP. if he did not go to Thiruvaiyaru in his concert after Thiruvaiyaru. Also VEENA GREATS LIKE S.B. USED TO DO RAGAMALIKA THANAMS often. MANY OTHER Veena artists did too & it was claimed it was to bring out speciality of Veena. I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER IT COUNTS IN YOUR "INNOVATION" Criterion?"

vkv, just to set the record straight, I am saying it is not an innovation. Such things were in common practice 100+ years back. But when a person like TMK does that, people decry that as misguided attempt at innovation. If I recall right, he himself had said these are not innovations

THANKS. I understand. However the last sentence is the Achilles heel in my opinion. After making some atrocious & provocative statement he covers it up like a good defence lawyer with a statement saying stuff like "these are not innovations"! It may be truthful but shows a person who seems to think he is smarter than the rest. VKV

[rajeshnat]

Varsha
Put the TLS lecdem if possible in the vidwans and vidushi section please of TLS. As usual you posted great but for me the analogy of HM and CM is to me even within CM for different artists.

SrinathK,
This is a lovely thread . Particularly the long post of yours. Your writing is very much a reflection of significantly my thoughts , and I have to say you have the Lalgudi modern flair - expansive without losing my attention (GNB MMI SSI Way)and not killing your extra expressible thoughts in the name of brevity and essence(ariyakudi way). I am also making an assumption that you moved out of chennai and with your time stamp of posts and may be even outside India. Keep continuing . There is a lovely counter that VGovindan sir replied about TMK which kind of settles? (not sure where that post is)

[varsha]

Dear Varsha, PLEASE DO.

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/g0xln3e ... ECTURE.mp3

Put the TLS lecdem if possible in the vidwans and vidushi section please of TLS

After listening to it , you will agree that it belongs here , more than any other thread

I cannot convey the humour of certain passages though . At times TLS would sing the inappropriate ( in his opinion ) way , slapping his thighs AND those were the sections where the accompanists were most comfortable. They would join in with glee , hammering away . Not to take anything away from them though . The violin alapana for Nanati Brathuku is a peach of a delivery.

[shankar vaidyanathan]

I have been reading this discussion. I am an admirer of the Saraswathi in any art or artist. I have read Sri TMK's first book (his tome is in 3 books.) Chapters 3 to 10 are what I consider to be required reading for any serious CM student. I have not yet decided whether to read the second or third books as I am unsure of what new insights I will gain. Of course it may be true that his literary output is verbose and would significantly benefit from a rewrite and a good editor. We may have to stop paying the authors by the word count. I have stopped reading his writings in The Hindu as I felt these were random thoughts that did not go through a "Chinthan and Manthan" internal self-retrospective process and may have been written on deadlines. I like his initiatives at Kalashetra and his efforts in expanding the horizons of CM, In short, I take what I like.

I like his music. I like his free flowing style. However, I do not like his experiments on stage. Though I can understand, appreciate, and, even tolerate some eccentricities, I do not like the antics, admonitions, and, irreverence for Gurus and past masters. I struggle with his interpretations of Bhakthi, but, I believe he has the right to speak what he wants to say when we have not paid to hear him sing. It is a free country. But sometimes I have felt that there is no method or substance behind the madness.

Having followed his music for a number of years, he seems to be going through a long transition phase in his life. I think that, we as Rasikas, may want to allow him the benefit of doubt, the room to create & innovate or rewind back to 150+ years, and, not attribute motives. New things may yet come from such experiments. Something good may still come out of it and the CM world may or may not benefit. Only time will tell. The jury is still out.

May be the best thing to do is not to focus on him for a few years.

In the mean while, I listen to his pre-2008 recordings with a view to learn from the Saraswathi in his music.

[hnbhagavan]

Somehow a general topic became a ground for just naming Sri TMK for the new concert pattern.Perhaps this is not correct discussing his deviations which Sri TMK feels is a good thing for carnatic Music.
Srinat has pointed out contributions by sri Lalgudi in composition of varnams.
It has been mentioned (mentioned in INCURABLE ROMANTIC) that Neelambari raga was not suitable for varnam compositions.This was attempted by Sri LGJ and successfully adopted in the concerts.I heard a few violin duet concerts of LGJ-GJR in which the opening Varnam was in Neelambari.I do not get to hear it these days.

[music1]

Is TMK forcing his ideas down the throat of the listeners. He is bringing certain innovations or experimentation (whatever you may call it).
Can you list a few of his "certain inventions"? The ones so far listed by others are NEGATIVES so far. reversing order of Varnam, Bhavamana, asking violinst to play anything he wants,singing a raga & kriti in another incompletly are foolish attempts that should not be encouraged by majority of Rasikas who pay money & expect expertise without mishmash, insulting the audience esp. an old man (not me) when he had to walk across stage to answer nature's call etc are rank bad behaviour. Can we spank him publicly on stage for bad behaviour? Ridiculous things should be pointed out & not allowed. Compared with Ariyakudi's divine inspiration in coming up with his scheme which he has seriously questioned except stating his right to do anything he wants & feels these are ridiculous in nature and deserve condemnation. In my opinion he gets a big fat zero... like others to express where I am wrong &express their views.....waste of time discussing stupid things....VKV

VKV Sir, Please read my post carefully. I said I am not a fan of TMK and I do not follow his music, his inventions or innovations. However, rasikas have all the freedom to reject the ideas of TMK and they have various other alternatives to listen to music, there are so many other artists and concerts are conducted in almost every street in chennai. A first timer going to his concert and getting upset about the order of songs, half baked or quarter baked presentation etc, but what I cant understand is the repeat attendees to TMK concert who after the 3 hours crib about the presentation etc.. Today almost everyone of us are fairly well informed, we have access to reviews of concerts, write ups etc

I do not subscribe to the change in the order of the songs, sing an alaap in a particualr raga and take up a kriti in another raga, etc etc. I choose therefore not to listen. IS THAT NOT SIMPLE !

[cacm]

Dear music1, I think this is a free forum for exchange of ideas. I myself write my opinion & try to learn others views. I am mostly interested in mis-representations about others esp. those who are not around to answer. The public will render its judgement. the power of this forum is any one can write what they feel. The are even allowed to be anonymous! YES, You have explained your views clearly....VKV

[sanjaysubfan]

It has been mentioned (mentioned in INCURABLE ROMANTIC) that Neelambari raga was not suitable for varnam compositions.This was attempted by Sri LGJ and successfully adopted in the concerts.I heard a few violin duet concerts of LGJ-GJR in which the opening Varnam was in Neelambari.I do not get to hear it these days.

Sanjay sir sings a superb Ata tala varnam in Neelambari by Tarangambadi Panchanadha Iyer.

Sanjay Sir has also brought his innovation by his exposition of the Mallari. He has sung it as the first piece, second piece and even a Ragam Tanam Mallari. He has sung kalpana swarms with the full kuraippu/korvai etc like a regular main item. He has also sung a Ragamalika Mallari. I remember reading somewhere that more than 15 years ago he sang a Virutham Tanam Tiruppugazh in Chennai. I wonder if anyone remembers this or has a recording or can confirm this. It is interesting that many things Sanjay Sir has done or keeps doing, others quietly recycle and gain attention.

Even recently he has announced in his blog that he wants to sing all the 72 melakartha ragas. This will be a fantastic achievement and I hope he releases it on his website.

[kvchellappa]

I feel like explaining my outbursts.
I used to attend TMK’s concerts and follow his programmes. I would write to him and he would invariably reply until I got bitterly critical of his views outside music.
After hearing his concert in 2009 (it was still called concert then), I wrote to him exuberantly:
“The format was novel. Choice of varnam as piece de resistance was of course unexpected. Your explaining why you chose it was apt. I was
thinking that people would flock to hear you sing even if you sing the song backwards.
However, such deviations from the concert format introduced by the universally acclaimed Sri Ramanuja Iyengar, which has stood the test
of time, should be one-off, I feel. This is not to criticise or question the creativity of an artist, which will anyway transcend the
commonplace sentiments. I know that what you do is well-thought out and you present it not just because it is manoranjakam to you, but
since you have read the pulse of the audience and make it janaranjakam.”
He explained about singing varnam in the middle, that the full scope and content of a varnam was not explored when sung first, when the audience was still arriving, dusting the seats and settling down. He added, ‘I felt like doing it and did it.’ I was satisfied particularly with the second reason.
In one reply, he said, ‘I am just trying to sing carnatic music.’ It was touching.
In reply to a query on purists, he said, ‘I think of myself also as a purist.’
All this is authentic. No one has questioned his preeminence in CM singing or his pursuing his musical ideas. There has been no bashing of his musical genius.
But, by and by he started expressing strident views, giving scant respect for audience sensitivity, and attacking belief systems with what I would call bigotry. He commented that ARI system was lacking in aesthetic sense and that it stifled musical creativity and made uncomplimentary comments about others that followed ARI format and also about the previous generation of musicians.
The innovations that are talked about have nothing to do with the format. The same experimentation can be done in the set pattern as well. It is not as though his is the only contribution to the growth of new ideas in CM.
It is his provocation that has got the response which I feel needs to be expressed.
To my mind, a case has not been made against the format of ARI.
Of course, each person will choose whom to listen to.
No one is jealous of his easy access to media or press. The idea expressed was that he uses that availability for giving his offensive and off-the-cuff views.
The contributions form knowledgeable persons have been rewarding in several aspects of CM in this thread. So, it is as necessary for us to say what we feel to get the benefit of such nuggets, as it is for any musician to get his way and say in his singing.

[music1]

Easy Access to media / press - Perhaps he is the Kejriwal of CM

[music1]

Experimentation ....

The Ajoy Chakraborty's concert that I attended a week ago, Sri Ajoy gave a brief speech on the genius Sri Balamuralikrishna, raved about his music and his classic creations (The Thillanas). His daughter and his disciple presented a Thillana in Hamsadhwani and he joined on and off as the sruti of both of them was way different from his. The way the thillana was presneted was so unique and beautiful that it was far better than how it is normally presented in CM.

[vgovindan]

Experimentation ....

The Ajoy Chakraborty's concert that I attended a week ago, Sri Ajoy gave a brief speech on the genius Sri Balamuralikrishna, raved about his music and his classic creations (The Thillanas). His daughter and his disciple presented a Thillana in Hamsadhwani and he joined on and off as the sruti of both of them was way different from his. The way the thillana was presneted was so unique and beautiful that it was far better than how it is normally presented in CM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn51MPgFs3E

[vgovindan]

....Thyagaraja is one example who had simplified his compositions so that this sangeetham would be understood more easily.

Understood? - who - musicians or rasikas? tyAgarAja's kRtis - the intuitive ones - like 'mOkshamu galadA', 'kaligiyuNTE gadA', 'nI daya rAdA' 'vaddanEvAru lEru' ' enta muddO' - to name a few - are just cover pages of the books. The stuff that went inside the book is unchartered and only known to the vAggEyakkAra. Our musicians have just seen cover pages - some of them synopsis. You require a heart brimming with love - पर प्रेम - तत् प्राप्य तदेनावलोकति, तदेव श्रुणोति, तदेव चिन्तयति - nArada bhakti sUtrANi (55) - to read the book - but CM is full of intellect - and lo there you can sense the heady potion of vidvat too.

[SrinathK]

But, by and by he started expressing strident views, giving scant respect for audience sensitivity, and attacking belief systems with what I would call bigotry....

So I see -- it really wasn't about the music itself. Would your opinions be any different if it weren't for things like these?