ARIYAKUDI-CREATOR, INVENTOR, PRESERVER, "MOOLADHARAM"OF 20TH CENTURY CARNATIC MUSIC

[cacm]

"rajeshnat"On a side note , since the references in general that having more compositions was started by poochi iyengar and then taken big time by Ariyakudi , I would always call this as poochi iyengar-ariyakudi tradition.
VKV Sir,
I see Poochi was born 1860 and died on 1919 . Ariyakudi was born on 1890 and died on 1967. I remember some time back where you said ariyakudi gave concerts till 1960 or 62. By any chance has your father grandparents etc.. heard poochi kutcheri live say in 1900 to 1919 timeframe. For that matter can any one tell if there is any hearsay anecdote of how poochi iyengar had sung a concert.
Dear Rajeshnat, Actually ARI GAVE CONCERTS TILL THE VERY END OF HIS LIFE.(may be till end of 1966).......I am sure my parents have heard POOCHI Kutcheri and as they were HOSTING MOST OF THE VIDWANS of that time; As I was too young I DID NOT ask about these things. I was born in 1934 in Devakkottai- a few houses from where Ravi kiran's grand father Devakkottai Narayana Iyengar lived-THATS MY CLAIM TO FAME!- VERY WEAK!- & AS MY FATHER WAS Deputy Inspector of School my family had lived in Chettinad, Ramnad, Tirunelveli among other places- ACTUALLY WHEN PMI came to N.A. TO ACCOMPANY THE VIOLIN TRIO HE SPENT TIME TALKING ABOUT MY FATHER WITH ME before his concerts in Weslyan etc.
HOWEVER I have to disagree with you about calling ARI PHENOMENON as "Pooch Iyengar-Ariyakudi " TRADITION as what ARI ACCOMPLISHED WAS IN THE OVERALL CONTEXT&SCOPE TO MAKE C.M. VERY POPULAR TO THE POINT THAT ORGANISED SABHAS & SCHOOLS WERE FORMED & EXIST EVEN TODAY. HE LIBERATED rasikas from standing in street corners to listen to great music & DEALT with all the generous patrons MAKING IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE C.M. AVAILABLE TO THE EXPERTS, RICH PATRONS & ORDIUNSRY "JOES". I intend coverring this later. VKV

[cacm]

I had shared an article by Mysore Vasudevacharya narrating his visit to Poochi with Veene Seshanna and Bakshi Subbanna.. Poochi was teaching Parama Pavana Rama and also they had spotted a very bright young disciple: Ariyakudi.

GREAT STUFF! AS I WROTE BEFORE TO KNOW MORE PEOPLE LIKE ME-DIE HARD CONCEITED MADRASIS- HAVE TO KNOW CONSIDERABLY MORE ABOUT SURROUNDING STATES!. THANKS & PL SHARE YOUR VAST EXPERTISE& KNOWLEDGE. VKV

[cacm]

"varsha"]Few bits to add pep to discussions
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/qy6htq8 ... garAja.mp3
ARI-TNK-PMI-PSP

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/f4xgn85 ... garAja.mp3
WITH TNK - PR

http://www.mediafire.com/watch/r222l9dt ... eature.wmv
A COLLECTORS CACHE of PHOTOS
THANKS! INVALUABLE....PL CONTINUE TO FREELY SHARE YOUR EXPERTISE & KNOWLEDGE. VKV

[TheListener]

A polite request to cacm (VKV).
While your anecdotes and opinions are enjoyable, it will be great if you don't employ so much of CAPITALIZATION in your writing. I believe in some places you are doing it for emphasis but in others it is not obvious why. There are other better ways to add emphasis. Whatever it is, capitalization makes it hard to read your posts. In online parlance, it amounts to shouting and agitation, which are not at all your intention here. It may be that you are used to writing that way. Or is it a keyboard issue? In line with Ariyakudi's music, if you can avoid that with the reading rasikas in mind, that will be great.

[cacm]

Dear "TheListener", IT IS A MATTER OF AGE & EYESIGHT. I will try to avoid it. ALL THESE ASSUMPTIONS ARE BASED ON WHAT? IS there a document where they are described.I HAVE REQUESTED FOR THE DOCUMENT BEFORE.I can only tell you I am not interested in offending any one or insulting nor am I angry. I do not have the energy to conform to some ettiquette you claim exists. pleas emeil it to me at: [email protected]. In the meanwhile pl ignore my posts & read others .Thanks. VKV

[kvchellappa]

I am pained at post of The Listener. It is not in good taste to offer advice to someone who is so passionate about CM and does so much despite the inconvenience at his age.

[rajeshnat]

VKV Sir or KVC
Please do not mistake TheListener . He/she may have not known what you stated above.

VKV sir
Continue with your enthusiasm as a ramanathapuram antha kalathu samasthana zamindar. Looks your appa was bit of that.

[arasi]

With VKV, we are all busy unrolling the red carpet for him to walk on--such a treasure house that he is, the type face fazes us not, though some of his die hard fans like Nicholas did complain initially. So, I am not complaining about Listener's complaint. The more he reads of VKV's accounts, the more he would be unmindful of the 'look' of his posts, IMHO (well, well, another oldie using computer parlance CAPITOLS!).

[shankar vaidyanathan]

VKV Sir,

I have a theory that ARI's innate ability to distill the essence of any Raga in as few short phrases as minimally needed must have been honed to adapt to the emerging and evolving sound technology of the time (radio, LP, mic) and to engage with the new Rasikas entering Sabhas. This was the era in which even the Tamil film songs were Carnatic Music based. The genius that he was, he must've sensed the changing times to adapt and reinvent the classical music for the masses. A man of his stature had the gravitas necessary to make it happen by sheer will power and blazing new trails. After all, what is great music if there are no listeners to appreciate? The Great Masters had the gift of simplifying to the minimalistic core to cater to the widening audience reach with the advent of the technology of their times. They may have also offered the variety and proportion with the belief that "If you build it, they will come" and choose to focus on what appeal to their listening tastes. In doing so, ARI also ensured that generations of future Carnatic musicians would have rewarding careers as the music left the courts of Kings and headed to the Kutcheris of the commoners. In this sense, I consider ARI as the "Dean of Revolution."

[cacm]

quote="shankar vaidyanathan VKV Sir,
This was the era in which even the Tamil film songs were Carnatic Music based. . After all, what is great music if there are no listeners to appreciate? The Great Masters had the gift of simplifying to the minimalistic core to cater to the widening audience reach with the advent of the technology of their times.
It is interesting Cleveland Festival is CELEBRATING PAPANASAM SIVAN this year & I happen to have a role in the Symposium in his honour. My theory is MY interest & involvement in Carnatic Music is DUE to listening to Sivan's compositions in the movies. Your theory about ARI is interesting! I will address it in another post. We are also currently celebrating the centenary OF Sri.V.V.Sadagopan whose movie roles still are reverberating in my mind especially his SINGING. Listening to him & MKT BOTH OF WHOM SANG PURE CARNATIC MUSIC was what inspired me to follow learn & appreciate Carnatic Music. That MKT( M.K.ThyagarajaBhagavathar) had in his movie contract that SIVAN should write the Music for his movies substantiates his INSIGHT! vkv

[cacm]

VKV Sir,

I have a theory that ARI's innate ability to distill the essence of any Raga in as few short phrases as minimally needed must have been honed to adapt to the emerging and evolving sound technology of the time (radio, LP, mic) and to engage with the new Rasikas entering Sabhas. This was the era in which even the Tamil film songs were Carnatic Music based. The genius that he was, he must have sensed the changing times to adapt and reinvent the classical music for the masses. A man of his stature had the gravitas necessary to make it happen by sheer will power and blazing new trails. After all, what is great music if there are no listeners to appreciate? The Great Masters had the gift of simplifying to the minimalistic core to cater to the widening audience reach with the advent of the technology of their times. They may have also offered the variety and proportion with the belief that "If you build it, they will come" and choose to focus on what appeal to their listening tastes. In doing so, ARI also ensured that generations of future Carnatic musicians would have rewarding careers as the music left the courts of Kings and headed to the Kutcheris of the commoners. In this sense, I consider ARI as the "Dean of Revolution."

Your reasons for very short alapanas etc makes some sense in terms of 1) available technology at that time 2) ability to present things to meet the attention span, level etc of the audience. For example, MMI counted the time ARI spent on every aspect & for example found he could THOROUGHLY PRESENT ALL ASPECTS OF A RAGA & THE KRITI WITH SANGATHIS IN VERY SHORT PHYSICAL TIME. He counted a one hour concert in which R.T.P. took 35 minutes & he had rendered "Subramanyaya Namaste" & MMI said HE FELT IT WAS COMPLETE! ThE same "Subramanyaya Namasthae" when Maha Periaval requsted him to sing he sang for ONE HOUR with elaboration on every word which ONLY DHIKSHITHAR can imbue with meaning musically, lyrically, + philosophically & mythologically for lack of another word but covers a lot! Sanjay Subramanian who I consider SCHOLAR AS WELL AS GREAT MUSICIAN told Me he had timed practically every song G.N.B. sang & found the time was exactly the same though it sounded different in all his concerts. Mali said Dhikshithar was was so profound& musically also so complete from an artist's point of view Manodharmam was very difficult esp. compared to Thyagaraja. MMI who LIVED to PLEASE & EDUCATE his rasikas- tho' his background can be said to be of Dhikshithar school- till late in his career sang many Thyagaraja's songs because he said HE NEEDED to get more mature. The OBJECTIVTY of these great ones shows how much they studied EVERY ASPECT IN CONTRAST TO silly shallow observations of certain other musicians who take advantage of not saying much but claiming great things!....
REG the FILM MUSIC WHERE THE GREATEST OF 20TH CENTURY SIVAN managed to squeeze things into 3 mins he cleverly insisted on knowing the story, words, action intended in Each scene & then composed the music to express SPECIFIC emotions involved thru' his compositions. So in general FILM MUSIC expresses shades of the raga etc PERFECTLY but not the scope of the WHOLE raga.I contend EVEN today the SRUTHI & SWARASTHANA SAUDDHAM in FILM music IS SUPERIOR to 90-95 percent of today's vocalists. I feel it is because of the superficial training + intellectual arrogance of the artists+ disdain for the rasikas. I feel on the other hand ARI HAS MANAGED TO SUCCESSFULLY PRESENT ALMOST ALL ASPECTS OF A RAGA OR COMPLICATED COMPOSITION in such a fashion even a GNB, PMI, MMI, SEM FELT it was complete in such a short time. MORE RESEARCH is needed to understand this "ILLUSION"?....vkv

[cacm]

OMIT

[cacm]

[quote="cacm"]HOW I MET ARI FIRST & SUBSEQUENT SIGHTINGS, ENCOUNTERS ET AL
I actually want to plunge into a discussion of the TEN POINTS that have been mentioned in previous posts by music1 & mridangam kid but decided to do this to give some variety; Quite frankly I was expecting MKR to jump in with his writing flair & ability to tell stories but he is AWOL! Must notify rasikas in Queens & the Flushing Temple. In the meanwhile I am a poor substitue & I request every one to share their version of the encounters...... In the early fifties ARI CAME TO TAMBARAM & gave a concert at Christ King CONVENT which I was lucky to attend as I waited near the gate not having the ability to buy a ticket & sneaking in- equivalent to ticketless travel which I was also involved in- & disobeying my Mother's instruction not to do such things- when the gentleman at the gate who was also secretary of the Sabha had to go & adjust the MIC- to make his welcome introductions-etc. I stood in the back near a tree (which became my favourite spot where I met Mali also in another concert!) where ARI'S student Dhanammal was also standing. As my mother had warned me to not talk to or disturb anyone I was just concentrating on the music of ARI & it was divine as he sang Karthikeya Gangeya of SIVAN in Todi ( later I learnt he knew close to 70-80 songs in Thodi!). After the concert ARI came near the same tree and as per my mother's previous instructions I did ShastangaNamaskarms & soiled my white dhoti & shirt as it was pure MADRAS manal (sand) (the only time I was not scolded for sloppiness & learnt there are exceptions to rules!). He blessed me & asked me how I liked his concert! I was tongue tied like when I was introduced to RICHARD FEYNMAN who proceeded to explain his Nobel winning Feynman Diagrams later in life. Being tongue tied has its advantages! From then on as my sister used to attend concerts regularly- she was even member of Parthasarathy Sabha the oldest Sabha in Madras- & did namaskarams without soiling my dress & stayed away from exposing my ignorance in many of his concerts. I INTENTLY listened to what every one else said.He LOOKED regal& royal with his Turban & Kadukkan; I could see that EVERY ONE around including TNK, PMI moved with him very respectfully. There were several instances which I will skip now to relate an incident at LGJ'S HOUSE in the seventies (after I had moved to U.S.A., ARRANGED MANY CONCERT TOURS ETC) where I was having Lunch- I was involved with VVS in a project where we eventually managed to digitise 90-95 percent of live concerts from the Forties- & LGJ'S Mother had made a Special PAL PAYASAM for me. I got a phone call from one Singarachariar in Big Street,Triplicane saying he had located a person with a cassette with 70 SONGS IN THODI ALL SUNG BY ARI. LGJ asked me to go there right away & went himself to get an auto rikshaw for me! Hurriedly went to Triplicane after hurriedly gulping the payasam with LGJ'S MOTHER basically saying 20th century speeded up every thing! I got the Cassette & returned to LGJ'S HOUSE with the PROFESSIONAL TEAC CLEVELAND VVS HAD BOUGHT SOMEWHERE IN THE WORLD during his at that time TRULY GLOBAL TRAVELS- No wonder he started with just another person & made his company employ over 6000 persons!- I played the cassete & it would not play! the cassette had become "gondhu"- stuck as a paste!-& the TEAC just got damaged as we could not remove the cassette & LGJ said he always preferred Grundig tape recorder & cassette recorders were unreliable!. I subsequently could never manage to locate a source with 70 of ARI'S Thodis & i am still searching...
My last meetings with ARI was in the last week before he passed away. KVN who was at Weslyan wanted me to visit him & give some help financially etc. I was shocked to see how puny he looked without the turban. I have always seen him at concerts with the turban; HE was ROYALTY & LOOKED EVER INCH AN EMPEROR! Now he looked so tiny & while he talked as well as ever I WAS JUST SHOCKEED & as usual no words came out of my mouth.... What a GIANT HE WAS & HOW GENTLE HE WAS when dealing with an ignoramous like me. I can never forget his eyes& expressions NOT TO MENTION HIS MUSIC....VKV
Now I urge any one who has dealt with him to write while I TRY TO LOCATE MKR....VKV

[mahavishnu]

I believe MKR is currently in the Bay Area visiting with family I will pass on your message, VKV sir, when I see him.

[SrinathK]

Vkv sir, Do you still have the tape? Can we do anything about it today?

[cacm]

Dear Srinath, There are TWO TAPES: 1) A 16mm film of MMI in concert specially taken by an admirer from Calcutta. I tracked it down to an attic in an apt at Poes Garden & it was afflicted with the dreaded Fungus. I had spent 2 years & developed a method to remove it to play it once but this was so far gone the method did not succeed. 2) This Cassette of ARI I GAVE IT TO A SPECIALIST (opposite Arkay center) & he could not do anything with it. THESE ARE THE TWO I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE!
I do have lot of ARI concerts but do not have time to look just or this. VKV

[SrinathK]

It might then need a forensic expert or a flight data recording analyst to recover the data. Is there any possibility that anyone in the states could do a better job than in India?

At least does anyone have a list of what all songs of ARI are available in Thodi?

[rajeshnat]

VKV Sir
I think you pickup quote button always of any block of sentence . While you type your response - you end up inadvertently deleting the closing quote tag which appears like that [/quote]. I suggest you to start typing post the closing quote tag. Lot of your posts we all are finding it difficult to know where your response starts. Also prior to submitting if it is not well formatted with the quote in different color you can always re-edit and then add the missing end quote tag. Donot mistake this suggestion .

By any chance are you in india , the timing of your last post does not look like that you are in US.

[rajeshnat]

My last meetings with ARI was in the last week before he passed away. KVN who was at Weslyan wanted me to visit him & give some help financially etc. I was shocked to see how puny he looked without the turban. I have always seen him at concerts with the turban; HE was ROYALTY & LOOKED EVER INCH AN EMPEROR! Now he looked so tiny & while he talked as well as ever I WAS JUST SHOCKEED & as usual no words came out of my mouth.... What a GIANT HE WAS & HOW GENTLE HE WAS when dealing with an ignoramous like me. I can never forget his eyes& expressions NOT TO MENTION HIS MUSIC....VKV

VKV Sir,
Lot of super successful musicians despite being commercially successful just needed finance help. This is unfortunate that it even happened to ariyakudi despite so many of his early to mid career concerts had royal patronage with considerably lot of money thrown in at that time . It was surely a combination of mismanagement and a price that they had to pay for only focusing on only music and being naive .

Now lot of musicians know how to manage better but the sanmAnam(commercial earnings) that they get is peanuts considering the relatively high inflation of today.

[SrinathK]

@rajeshnat As I've read in V.Sriram's book, "Carnatic Summer", ARI was under a lot of financial pressure from his relatives in his last days. KVN in his interview was particularly mentioning how much top musicians in other countries could earn and that the government could do more to give musicians in India some financial relief.

In the USA, Jascha Heifetz was being paid $10,000 per performance in the 1930 and 40s ! (which itself was 2.5x higher than the next highest paid violinist, Milstein). Of course, like sports, there was always this niche top 20-50 that earned enough and all those below that very little.

[hnbhagavan]

Dear SrinathK,

Myself, Munirao and Sachi etc tried to moot some drive for fund collection and set up a trust or operate thru Carnatica as done for TAWF.Infact the response for the TAWF routed thru Carnatica was not a big success.Though a small amount was managed thru a few rasikas who contributed and efforts of Carnatica with a benefit concert by Aruna Sairam,it was not considerable.I have read many musicians were in distress.Some examples recent ones are MDR,Papanasam Sivan ,ARI etc.The situation has not changed.It may have worsened due to many persons in Upapakavadyam category who are not paid well as per reports.
Rasikas should ponder and try for some sustainable initiative.

[cacm]

VKV Sir
I think you pickup quote button always of any block of sentence . While you type your response - you end up inadvertently deleting the closing quote tag which appears like that

. I suggest you to start typing post the closing quote tag. Lot of your posts we all are finding it difficult to know where your response starts. Also prior to submitting if it is not well formatted with the quote in different color you can always re-edit and then add the missing end quote tag. Donot mistake this suggestion .
By any chance are you in india , the timing of your last post does not look like that you are in US.[/quote] there are quotes within quotes
MY RESPONSE: I will do it & in the case above the quotes within quotes is confusing. I will blindly hit reply & it does not accept it many times. So I just remove the end of the quotes. I think the GENERAL RULE is my response lis last! I will SPECIFICALLY SAY : MY RESOPONSE & START. I am in USA & I am being asked to come to India NEXT YEAR as apparently I am the only one (apart from RADHA,TKM,VVS, & VKKU V) who i who attended the M.S. U.N. Concert still around. This is the only reason I might show up & it is dependent on many other factors. VKV

[cacm]

It might then need a forensic expert or a flight data recording analyst to recover the data. Is there any possibility that anyone in the states could do a better job than in India?
At least does anyone have a list of what all songs of ARI are available in Thodi?

MY RESPONSE: NO. I knew lots of them & they concluded once it became GLUE NOTHING CAN BE DONE.ITS ONLY MICRONS THICK!...REG LIST I have to search as ALL MY STUFF is scattered all over the place- I was always used to a secretary & on my own as you see I end up doing the typing arbitrarily! etc- butvSruti issue 42 '88 had two lists: Favourite Songs of Ariyakudi & A Discography. VKV

[cacm]

@rajeshnat As I've read in V.Sriram's book, "Carnatic Summer", ARI was under a lot of financial pressure from his relatives in his last days. KVN in his interview was particularly mentioning how much top musicians in other countries could earn and that the government could do more to give musicians in India some financial relief.
In the USA, Jascha Heifetz was being paid $10,000 per performance in the 1930 and 40s ! (which itself was 2.5x higher than the next highest paid violinist, Milstein). Of course, like sports, there was always this niche top 20-50 that earned enough and all those below that very little.

MY RESPONSE: NORTH INDIAN MUSICIANS are far smarter because they have latched on to N.Indians who have been willing to part with cash from the fifties. INDIA is terrible as well as rich organisations like Music Academy who only now a days have improved things thanks to Murali- paid the artists POORLY. Alangudi ramachandran was a regular who ended up with us(making less than 100RS) AFTYER PLAYING 3 hours in brilliant concerts he used to join us for 1/4th Masala Dosa at MURUDIS TO SHARE 1/4 dosai! He was being paid 5Rs!......
Also todays artists like Sudha, ARUNA (fortunately) have become smarter & make may be 5K /CONCERT which ALLA Rakha made in sixties! For example in 1971 I arranged LGJ/N.R., R.R., T.S., T.R TOUR and personally LOST 2K when my salary was 12k. I managed to pay them only the collection from the sale of 2000 tapes of their concerts! NOT to belabour the point it Cleveland VVS IS STILL LOSING THE SHIRT EVEN TODAY- the 50K DEFICIT/YEAR IN CLEVELAND WE have been UNABLE TO CLOSE DESPITE trying various schemes- & like most finance ministries of most nations deficit financing is the rule & at least Cleveland is proving this can be done!
In my opinion the CLEVELAND MIRACLE for the past 38 years has been possible because of an EVEN GREATER MIRACLE originating in Veeravanallur- CLEVELAND V.V.Sundaram who shd be called CLEVELAND/VEERAVANALLUR ie C.V.V.S.which to me is an Avatharam to save& propagate Carnatic Music... REG ARI, KVN, & THEIR FINANCIAL STATUS I have been somewhat active ever since I landed in USA in 1959. Actually SIVAN, ARI, KVN, EVEN G.NB., MMI + SEVERAL OTHERS were financially broke. Actually financial help from persons like my brother Dr.V.K. Balasuramanian saved karpagambal nagar home of mmi (medical bills+ a PATHAN ready to throw every one out); LGJ was a CHAMPION who used to take me to SIVAN'S HOME. VVS GAVE LALKHS& LAKHS to MANY ESP. K.V.N. REG ARI his situation was also pretty bad & when he passed away with the help of V.C.Srikumar HINDU gave a lowly job to one of his relatives. The list goes on & on.
Why GOVT will not do anything much is because if CORRUPTION is at the level it is the temptation is to grab more & more esp as Sabhas are willing to ask these persons to inagurate, preside etc even if they do not know adi thalam. Its one thing to be a good orator & claim to restore our values etc while doing unethical things.
As long as respect for "sadas" is absent this will continue. Still the miracle of Madras is the Sabhas which in the fifties were run by lower middle class secretaries like Sethuraman in Perambur Sangeetha Sabha. THERE SHD. BE Statues FOR THESE POINEERS IN THE PARKING LOT OF MUSIC ACADEMY.
THE OTHER PERSON who has done a lot in this area is RAVI KIRAN & HE SHD. NOT ONLY BE GIVEN S.K. but his statue shd. be part of the Statues in M.A. PARKING LOT..... One solution IS FOR THOSE INTERESTED to discuss this problem as CONCRETE ISSUE & ENLIST PERSONS & seek guidance from experts like Ravi Kiran..VKV

[Rsachi]

Sir,
Your post contains a golden nugget of an idea. The key words were Carnatic summer and deficit financing. As we all know, deficit financing is accomplished by printing currency notes in RBI. How about if the successful author /s of coffee table books on jasmine and jaaru invest in a currency press imported from the land of Quwwalis? That will solve all the ills from Kanchipuram to Cleveland!!

[arasi]

Sachi,
What blossoming prose! Jasmine and jaaru, land of quwwalis, Kanchipuram to Cleveland...

Now, I think of all the kanchipurams in Cleveland this spring, the whole nine hundred yards!

[cacm]

Dear RSachi,
Since you are my friend can I call it Revolutionary"? It is almost a revolution like the one claimed for Carnatic music! I agree it will solve many problems! VKV

[munirao2001]

Karnataka Music has thrived only with the art of deficit finance management and its practice, individually and collectively. Artists-immensely popular and achieving financial well being and rasikas with resources must act with responsibility, dedication and commitment for the growth and development of this great art, inspired by role models. Government, institutions and corporate should fund to create the infrastructure for the practice of art.

munirao2001

[hnbhagavan]

Dear CACM,

I am surprised if you say that sudha and aruna are getting only 5K per concert.Is it 5K or 50K?

[mahavishnu]

I think he meant in USD.

[cacm]

Dear CACM,
I am surprised if you say that sudha and aruna are getting only 5K per concert.Is it 5K or 50K?

RESPONSE:I always write in US DOLLARS which appears to be the ONLY one that counts. Multiply it by 62 & you can see the power of the dollar. EVEN THE BEST they can do in INDIA is NOTHING compared to what they can make here. Actually they make more than a good scienrist with 50 years of experience & they desrve it too. I wrote it as a guess.I CANNOT write what I know here (Applies at every level). It is none of our business. YOU have to ask them. For the organiser HALL, ACCOMODATION, PLANE FARE(BUSINESS CLASS), + OTHER PERKS etc can easily make it at least 7.5k/concert. They may be BIG in India but here that's not the case & neither is South Indian Music that popular except among Indians-even there only a minority-properly so in my opinion. VKV

[shankar vaidyanathan]

VKV Sir,

If you have time, kindly touch upon ARI's efforts in tuning Thiruppavai and several poems of Arunachala Kavi's works. It seems to me that ARI has championed a conscious initiative in singing Tamil compositions on stage in that era along with other Giants. I identify Ragas mostly by phrase association/recall and the Thiruppavai helps immensely as a golden benchmark. Thanks in advance.

[vgovindan]

If I am not wrong, Tiruppavai was turned by ARI at the behest of Maha Periava.

[cacm]

VKV Sir,
If you have time, kindly touch upon ARI's efforts in tuning Thiruppavai and several poems of Arunachala Kavi's works. It seems to me that ARI has championed a conscious initiative in singing Tamil compositions on stage in that era along with other Giants. I identify Ragas mostly by phrase association/recall and the Thiruppavai helps immensely as a golden benchmark. Thanks in advance.

MY RESPONSE: I WILL. Apart from ARI, KVN, MLV THERE ARE OTHER MAJOR ARTISTS have rendered ARI'S VERSION that are available. I hope to do one by one LOGICALLY in sequence because MY HOPE is ANYONE who gets FAMILIAR with what he did & not discuss, recognise it WILL HAVE TO BE A FOOL . Just using language, access etc CANNOT DENY what he did......VKV

[cacm]

If I am not wrong, Tiruppavai was turned by ARI at the behest of Maha Periava.

MY RESPONSE: YES. VKV

[hnbhagavan]

Dear CACM,

I am very happy if our musicians who tour abroad make good money.Perhaps this will help them for better living conditions and help us to listen to good music in Chennai,Bangalore etc.Yourself ,VVS etc who are managing the music organisations deserve our congratulations for inviting our leading musicians and providing handsome remuneration.

[mridangamkid]

The Concert Tradition
Ariyakudi Ramanuja Iyengar.
(Ariyakudi Ramanuja Iyengar speaks of kutcheris, classicism and much more in this paper presented at a symposium and published in the Commemoration Volume dated May 19, 1990.)

It gives me immense pleasure to contribute to this Symposium an article on some aspects of Karnatak music. For, though I can claim a successful and unbroken career, extending over 52 years, I have had no opportunity till now to assemble and present my views on kacheri paddhati (concert sampradaya or tradition).
Here, I propose to deal with kacheri paddhati, as I have learnt and practised it on the platform all these years, in the light of its historic background after a rigorous period of gurukulavasa, first under Pudukottai Malayappa Iyer and Namakkal Narasimha Iyengar, and later, for over 11 years, under Poochi Srinivasa Iyengar of Ramnad. More than this, I have had the good fortune to listen to and learn from the expositions of such great masters as Tirukkodikaval Krishna Iyer, Tiruchi Govindasami Pillai, Saraba Sastri, Sakharam Rao, Veenai Dhanammal and a host of others. In vocal concerts today, certain changes are perceptible which, if allowed to grow unchecked, may spell ruin for our great tradition of Karnatak music, and eventually result in the total disappearance of sampradaya. This is all the more regrettable when our music is claiming hundreds of adherents in the West.
It is the peculiar feature of Karnatak music that it has survived the invasions of kings and chieftains, and feudal wars, in South India to build up a great tradition – a tradition that dates back to Vedic times. The Tamil classics speak of seven palais, later developing into 16 melas, leading to a further emergence of 103 pannas. Those versed in them were the Panars, such as Tiruppanazhwar, Tirunilakanta yazhpanar and others. They were not worldly-minded; to them music was divine. They were God-intoxicated and aimed at the attainment of Supreme Bliss. Their devotional and soul-stirring lyrics were sung in the temples. Next, we are deeply indebted to Sarangadeva for his great and invaluable work, Sangitaratnakara, in which he describes and interprets the lakshnas of Karnatak music.
The final shape
Karnatak music took its final shape and form from the time of Purandaradasa, who systematised the laws of teaching music and wrote of innumerable padas and prabandhas, besides composing svaravalis, gitas, suladis, tayams and alankaras in the saptatalas as preliminary exercises and early lessons which must necessarily be learnt. Subsequently, Ramamathya, in his work Svaramelakalanidhi, condenses the Sangitaratnakara and explains the nature of 19 melas and their 166 janya-ragas. But it was Venkatamakhi who formulated the scheme of seventy-two melas in his Chaturdandi Prakasika. It is, however, not known if he assigned names to the several ragas. Later, Akalanka, in his work Sangitasarasangraham, speaks of a number of ragas and determines their lakshanas. The great work of Govindacharya, Sangrahachoodamani, is an authoritative and later contribution, containing lakshanagitas for 366 ragas (including the 72 melas), and this became the classic authority for the great vidwans like my guru Poochi Srinivasa Iyengar.
While the great stream of Karnatak music has been enriched by vaggeyakaras who have preserved the musical forms, like the varna, kriti, javali, tillana and svarajatis, the torch-bearers of South India’s musical traditions were the numerous sabha musicians and vidwans, who were patronised by kings, princes and zamindars.
Kacheri is an Urdu word, referring to the musical concerts held in the courts of the Mohammedan rulers in North India. It is akin to those held in the South which were known as arangam, sabha or sadas. A kacheri in its early phases was confined to a recital before a select gathering at the royal court or in the assembly hall on an auspicious occasion. The court of Sarabhoji of Thanjavur seems to have had on its rolls nearly 360 musicians, each specialised in certain specific branches of vocal or instrumental music, and each waiting for a day in the year to exhibit his skill and prowess!
Varnam singing
The celebrated composer of the ‘Viriboni’ varna in Bhairavi, Pachaimiriyam Adiyappayya, was a distinguished musician who adorned the courts of Thanjavur, Pudukkottai and Ettayapuram – as also Pallavi Doraisamy Iyer, Gopala Iyer, Todi Sitarama Iyer, Sankarabharanam Narasayya and several instrumentalists and dancers. Varna singing may be presumed to have been in vogue from Adiyappayya’s period. Among his disciples may be counted such distinguished names as Syama Sastri and Ghanam Krishna Iyer. We are ushered into the treasures of Tyagaraja by Umayalpuram Krishna Bhagavatar and Sundara Bhagavatar, Walajapet Venkatramana Bhagavatar, Tillaisthanam Rama Iyengar and Tiruvotriyur Thyagier. The point worthy of note is that, while Dikshitar adopted Venkatamakhi’s system of asampurna-mela-paddhati, Tyagaraja followed the Govindacharya sampradayam of sampurna-mela-krama.
Like my guru, I have never begun a concert without singing a varna at the commencement. It imparts mellowness to the voice and a flavour to the subsequent rendering of kritis or ragas. Palghat Anantarama Bhagavatar and Bidaram Krishnappa began their concerts with tana varnas. In the past (pre-varna days), performers used to sing tanas in the Nattai, Gowla, Arabhi, Varali and Sri ragas, to the accompaniment of the mridangam.
In the concerts, the singer is accompanied on the violin and the mridangam. Where a gayaka has specialised in the laya aspects, he revels in having additional accompaniments such as the ganjira, ghatam, morsing, konnakol and dholak. In early times, the musicians used to sing in sthayi-sruti; now they have lowered it, owing to several exigencies. A performer must be deeply conscious of his strengths and weaknesses. The effect of the performance should be such as to keep the listeners spell-bound, making them stay on to the very end, thirsting for still more.
Sruti sense, earnestness, a proper conception of raga-swarupa and good laya-jnana - without these, it is impossible to perform entertainingly. The choice should be made from classical pieces conforming to the South Indian type (whatever the language), with a knowledge of the meaning thereof. The purpose should be to elevate and educate the listeners and improve their tastes. The concert should begin with a varna, to be immediately followed by a few fast-tempo kritis. A short and crisp alapana, of two or three of the ragas of the kritis to be sung, may be rendered. Kalpanaswaras must be limited and proportionate, and restricted to a few pieces, after a reasonable measure of niraval.
The pieces selected should be of varied talas and no two of the same tala need be sung consecutively. In rendering kalpanaswaras, for kritis or pallavis, it would be more appropriate to adopt the traditional mode of sarvalaghu pattern with variations in the nadai in tala imparting ranjakatva, keeping in view the raga-swarupa. An admixture of slow-and fast-tempo kritis alternately is preferable. The main raga for tana, pallavi, should be a Ghana raga familiar to the audience and the rendering of the alapana must be fairly lengthy and should explore into the mandhara sthayi as well. In the alapana of rare ragas, their distinctive character should reveal themselves at the first touches in all their purity and clearness, and should neither get confused nor clash with ragas closely allied to or resembling them. A couple of opportunities (according to the convenience of the artiste) may be given to the mridangam player — the first an hour after the commencement, the second during the pallavi stage, in different talas of convenient tempos. The items should comprise padam, javali, Tevaram, Tiruppugazh, Ashtapadi, tarangam, tillana, ragamalika and sloka, all of which must form Part II of the concert. The singer should enlist the cooperation of the accompanists all through, with the object of making the concert a success.
Thus it will be seen how the great tradition of Karnatak music has been built up by the South Indian genius. It is up to the vidwans and rasikas to see that this torch of Karnatak music is kept effulgent for all time to come and in all its glory.
HERE IS ARI EXPLAINING THINGS! PL; READ IT CAREFULLY....VKV

Sorry for the delayed response but I have been reading diligently for the past week-- just too busy to post! There were a couple things mentioned on this thread that I wanted to answer/ask/discuss. This post may be a bit long, please bear with me!

Firstly I'd like to make note of the "Concert Tradition" address that I have quoted above. I have read, re-read, and re-re-read this multiple times over the past several years and find many things fascinating about what Sri Ariyakudi talks about. I'd just like to share my thoughts and please let me know what you think of them.

In vocal concerts today, certain changes are perceptible which, if allowed to grow unchecked, may spell ruin for our great tradition of Karnatak music, and eventually result in the total disappearance of sampradaya. This is all the more regrettable when our music is claiming hundreds of adherents in the West.

I find this excerpt interesting for multiple reasons.

It shows while he was an innovator and did sing in a certain "non-traditional" way (i.e. singing fast tempo, forming the whole concert padhatti etc.), Sri Ariyakudi still stayed true to the overall "tradition" of what makes Carnatic music. I've heard multiple times -- especially from older generations-- that so and so aren't singing "traditionally" or is moving "too far away from traditional Carnatic Music" yet are devotees to Ariyakudi or TR Mahalingam. This would confuse me to no end. Ariyakudi could be seen as a rebel, as he'd sing Sri Subramanyaya namaste at 3 times the speed of other artists, or Mali would simply blow 2 notes on the flute and sit and stare for one hour. I'd always question, how this is considered "traditional". This is where I think part of the genius of Ariyakudi came out. He'd put his own twist on compositions and style, while keeping true to the overall aspect and "rules" of what makes CM. This includes keeping proper and correct thalam, keeping to perfect ragam, and keeping true to the original composer. What do you (anyone reading this) think he means in "certain changes [which] are perceptible?". I also found it interesting how he mentioned CM adhering to the West. Does this mean the US/Europe? And if so, were there people, even back then whom gravitated towards CM? When I first read this, I read it as him predicting the western influence on CM (i.e. jazz fusion, people who are not Hindu learning CM) being the demise of CM sampradaya, I'm not sure if I am reading this correctly. I do however find that what he said can be interpreted in one of two ways.
1) He had amazing foresight in that he knew/saw artists true devotion to tradition, religion, and God were becoming less and less, and it will ultimately lead to the disappearance of sampradaya
or
2) Even back when he gave this address, they were facing problems we were facing today, in that people feel the bakthi and devotions artists gave per concert were greater in the yester-years than currently. In other words, the "Golden Age of Carnatic Music" was always the previous generation (does this make sense? I could try to explain this better).

The concert should begin with a varna, to be immediately followed by a few fast-tempo kritis. A short and crisp alapana, of two or three of the ragas of the kritis to be sung, may be rendered. Kalpanaswaras must be limited and proportionate, and restricted to a few pieces, after a reasonable measure of niraval.
The pieces selected should be of varied talas and no two of the same tala need be sung consecutively. In rendering kalpanaswaras, for kritis or pallavis, it would be more appropriate to adopt the traditional mode of sarvalaghu pattern with variations in the nadai in tala imparting ranjakatva, keeping in view the raga-swarupa. An admixture of slow-and fast-tempo kritis alternately is preferable. The main raga for tana, pallavi, should be a Ghana raga familiar to the audience and the rendering of the alapana must be fairly lengthy and should explore into the mandhara sthayi as well. In the alapana of rare ragas, their distinctive character should reveal themselves at the first touches in all their purity and clearness, and should neither get confused nor clash with ragas closely allied to or resembling them. A couple of opportunities (according to the convenience of the artiste) may be given to the mridangam player — the first an hour after the commencement, the second during the pallavi stage, in different talas of convenient tempos. The items should comprise padam, javali, Tevaram, Tiruppugazh, Ashtapadi, tarangam, tillana, ragamalika and sloka, all of which must form Part II of the concert. The singer should enlist the cooperation of the accompanists all through, with the object of making the concert a success.

I love how Sri ARI very clearly explains what, why and how he sings concerts the way he does. This is very important, especially for someone hard-headed like myself, because I'd always ask the question "why"? There is no question as to what he means by "proper concert padhathi". He explains one by one, what should be sung first, why it's sung first, then what's sung next, then when to do kalpana swarams, when to do alapana, which thalams to use where, what type of song should be sung, when to give thani, how long should thani be and explains WHY it's done this way. He was meticulous in EVERYTHING he did (which goes back to the story of him practicing a song for 6 months before introducing it in a concert). I think this shows the type of person ARI was, a perfectionist who knew what he wanted to do and how he wanted to do it.

I honestly could go line by line of this address but I'll save that for a later time!

Wonderful indeed! A couple of questions, Sri VKV. When and in which Sabha did Sri ARI give this presentation?

And what would the length of this concert be? How long were Sri ARI's concerts? I ask because, if I understand correctly, Sri ARI says that the post-RTP portion should include a padam, jAvaLi, tEvAram, tiruppugazh, ashTapadi, tarangam, tillAnA, and a rAgamAlika slOkam...

If I recall correctly (and again, this is all hearsay from what I've heard from others), I believe this was the Presidential address in the Madras Music Academy. As far as when, I'm not positive but I would like to say sometime in the 1950s. I'm not sure about this at all though.

From what I've listened to, ARI's concerts were usually between 2.5-3 hours long (like VKV sir mentioned). I have some unaltered recordings of him and you must keep in mind, he would not stop for a second between songs. I originally thought the recordings skipped but you'd notice that in multiple concerts. The time between his last note of one song and first note in another would be less than 5 seconds in some cases. I also have multiple concerts of ARI where he'd sing 20+ songs. But if you couple his lack of break between songs with his ultra-fast tempo, it'd make sense that he could fit it all in in a 3 hour span.

Revolutionists are always opposed. And that is easy to do. They always have an uphill battle which is a good thing. Such things act as a filter. Most fail for a plethora of reasons, good and bad. The few who succeed write the history for the future and they become the 'good revolutionists' and after a few generations what they did becomes the status quo. This cycle has repeated many hundreds of times and that is what has shaped human history.

[/quote]

I think what vasanthakokilam said here is very true. Ultimately, I feel if it sounds good, people will like it. There are other factors however, especially in the world of CM. For example, tradition plays a big role for rasikas of CM. Some one could have an amazing voice, improvise beautifully, have perfect thalam, and never go off ragam, but if he/she sings "Endaro Mahanubavulu" in Reeti gowla, it wouldn't be "Carnatic Music" (in my opinion at least). This goes back to what I said earlier. I feel ARI and Mali are both "revolutionists", in that they stepped away from the "norm" of how others were performing, YET, they still kept the overall "rules" of Carnatic Music. What are those "rules"? I think that's a debate in itself that are determined by the rasikas themselves. I'm digressing a bit, I realize, but I think it is an interesting topic.

To get back on point, I think any student of Carnatic Music (whether it be singing, violin, mridangam, or anything else) should read Ariyakudi's thoughts on the "Concert Tradition" as it gives an underlying information to how CM has evolved, and why CM is the way it is.

VKV Sir,

I will look around and see if I can track the 80ish Thodi recordings. My family has a huge ARI collection, I'll see if they may have it or know anything about it.

With that I'll share a nice Thodi composition by Koteswara Iyer that I've only heard Ariyakudi sing. The composition is "Kali Theera". Careful though, it may not leave your head!

https://www.sendspace.com/file/nuvco8

[kvchellappa]

Nice.

[KNV1955]

At last read this post completely. Thanks to VKV Sir for initiating discussions on this Genius. GNB writing is outstanding. Someone in this post had asked about the repertoire of Iyengarval in Todi. It is really large. I can list the Todi Kritis sung by KVN. (obviously Iyengarval must have sung all the Kritis plus something more).1.Amba nannu brova- Anai Ayya; (I am told this is the only kriti KVN learnt from his master formally). 2. Emi jesitey - Tyagaraja; 3. Ninne namminanu - Syama Sastry; 4.Dasarathi -Tyagaraja ( I have heard a mischievous comment being made about the way Iyengarval would sing the Charanam line "Bakthi leni". The comment was made to me. And a very a popular present day musician even tested KVN once by asking him to sing the song. KVN knew it was a mischivous request & yet he sang but never sought his reaction.The young vidavan thanked him with all vazhishal) 5.Raju Vedala- Tyagaraja ( I had an unusual experience when I played KVN recording of this kriti one night last Dec . Next day morning Sriramkumar the elder of the Malladi brothers landed in my house & asked if we are fans of Voleti & did we play his Raju vedala last night . We told it was KVNs & we became great friends thereafter. During season they stay in an apartment opposite to my flat). 6.Chesinadella -Tygaraja; 7. Ninnu Vina sukhamu -Tygaraja; 8. Sree Venkatesam -Poochi Srinivasa Iyengar; 9.Kartikeya - P.Sivan; 10. Kadaikann Nokki -P.Sivan; 11.Taye Yasoda - Oothukadu Venkatasubba Iyer;12. Koluva maregada-Tygaraja;13. Kali teera -Kotiswara Iyer; 14.Kotinadulu-Tygaraja; 15.Bharathi mamava- Swati Tirunal; 16.Enu dhanyalo-Purandaradas; 17. Munnu Ravana-Tygaraja; 18.Kaddanuvariki -Tygaraja;19.Mandaradhara- Swati Tirunal; 20.Pankajasana _Swati Tirunal; 21. Eranapai -Varanam-Patanam Subramanya Iyer; 22. Notrucchuvarkam-Andal Tiruppavai. I also find from HV Srivatasan listing GNB kriti Mamakuleswaram. But I have not heard him sing this kriti. All other songs he had rendered in Music Academey concerts as main kriti & the recordings are available in Academy Archive.

I find Todi & Kambhoji sung by Iyengarval & his disciple KVN are distinctly different from the Todi I hear presently. Present style of singing Todi alapana is full of Nadasawara pidis & raining with briggas. Iyengarval style of singing is full of Gamakkams. The richness in his Todi is unique which even KVN couldn't capture. The gammakkam in Iyengarval's voice is the ultimate in gamakka oriented singing.

VKV Sir had mentioned about Sethuraman of Perambur Sangeetha Sabha. My father sang a brilliant concert for pittance in his sabha in 80's with VVS & Sivraman. It was out of love & reverence he had for Sethuraman. What a memorable concert it was & Sethuraman was weeping uncontrollably after the concert. Such was his love for Iyengarval & KVN music. He went to the extend of saying KVN had surpassed his master with his unique style. KVN took objection to the statement & said there would not have been a KVN but for Iyengaval & Mani Iyerval in his life.

[arasi]

What a post, KNV! Love it!

At least had a fleeting moment of a meeting with you at Ragasudha, finally

Mridangam kid (not a kid anymore),
Thank you for your (as always) responsible and interesting post. As a new generation person, you add so much value to all that the veterans can say. After all, you are a serious torch bearer to the tradition!

Now, off to listen to Iyengarval' s tODi!

[cacm]

QUOTE FROM Mridangam kid,
I think what vasanthakokilam said here is very true. Ultimately, I feel if it sounds good, people will like it. There are other factors however, especially in the world of CM. For example, tradition plays a big role for rasikas of CM. Some one could have an amazing voice, improvise beautifully, have perfect thalam, and never go off ragam, but if he/she sings "Endaro Mahanubavulu" in Reeti gowla, it wouldn't be "Carnatic Music" (in my opinion at least). This goes back to what I said earlier. I feel ARI and Mali are both "revolutionists", in that they stepped away from the "norm" of how others were performing, YET, they still kept the overall "rules" of Carnatic Music. What are those "rules"? I think that's a debate in itself that are determined by the rasikas themselves. I'm digressing a bit, I realize, but I think it is an interesting topic.
To get back on point, I think any student of Carnatic Music (whether it be singing, violin, mridangam, or anything else) should read Ariyakudi's thoughts on the "Concert Tradition" as it gives an underlying information to how CM has evolved, and why CM is the way it is.
MY RESPONSE:
Thanks for posting the ARI Article WITH YOUR COMMENTS. I am listening RIGHT NOW to Mali's FAMOUS CALCUTTA CONCERT (FAMOUS FOR ITS BRILLIANCE& MASTERY OF "SLOW" SPEEDS! UNBELIEVABLE! I am glad that you are taking this attempt to COVER THE EPOCH MAKING CONTRIBUTIONS OF ARI & SHARING YOUR INSIGHTS. YOU shd interview rest of your family& share their insights. Iwish to comment on RULES. ESP. as many of the rasikas in this forum are/have been involved in Science (I include Music also in this category myself) it is obvious that in this UNIVERSE- for that matter in any paralel universe- there have to be SELF CONSISTENT RULES for anything to be considered consistent & repeatable. Even Newton & Einstein CANNOT DISOBEY THIS RULE. ARI HAS HIT UPON A SCHEME that obeys the rules of Carnatic Music & is the EQUIVALENT OF NEWTON & EINSTEIN in Carnatic Music any one following him can use any amount of P.R. but like persons trying to disprove Einstein & Newton are bound to fail. In Physics String Theory adherents least obey the rules. Just arbitrary STATEMENTS make one foolish & only naive persons will accept such attempts. I dont wish to prolong this but your statements are Refreshing....PL KEEP SHARING YOUR INSIGHTS.

QUOTE FROM KNV1955:
VKV Sir,
I will look around and see if I can track the 80ish Thodi recordings. My family has a huge ARI collection, I'll see if they may have it or know anything about it.
With that I'll share a nice Thodi composition by Koteswara Iyer that I've only heard Ariyakudi sing. The composition is "Kali Theera". Careful though, it may not leave your head!
https://www.sendspace.com/file/nuvco8
MY RESPONSE:
I agree except that your father KVN'S VERSION is equally charming & HE WAS GRACIOUS ENOUGH TO EDUCATE ME about this particular song. His approach was UNIVERSAL as you know& hence his rendition is appealing to me on different grounds. Similarly S.RAJAM & KALYANARAMAN being Koteeswara Iyer EXPERTS have versions equally appealing. It REQUIRED THE GENIUS OF ARI to bring out the CREATIVE GENIUS OF KOTEESWARA IYER. Like REMEMBERING SIVAN whenever I walked with S.RAJAM EVERY TIME I walk the streets of Mylapore esp. near the temples I get GOOSE BUMPS when I remeber Koteeswara Iyer walked those streets....
To slightly shift topics SRUTI ISSUES 39-41 HAS A LIST OF ARI'S LPS, FAVOURITE CONCERT CHOICES ETC BY NO MEANS A COMPLETE LIST. Similarly Issue 212 has K.V.N'S REPERTIORE. I must add that KVN'S UNIVERSAL GENIUS TO ABSORB GOOD MUSIC from any one means the KVN list includes more things like Swarna Dhikshithar & other special things like Cassettes for "VISIRI SWAMIYAR" OF Tiruvannamalai which he made to help raise money etc they include more than the ARI LIST. I still am in the hunt for the ARI THODI REPERTOIRE FOR HISTORICAL REASONS. ARI DEFINITELY CAME UP WITH A SISHYA WHO WAS A WORTHY ONE!..........PL WRITE & CONTRIBUTE HERE. VKV

[cacm]

At last read this post completely. Thanks to VKV Sir for initiating discussions on this Genius. GNB writing is outstanding.
thanks. vkv

VKV Sir had mentioned about Sethuraman of Perambur Sangeetha Sabha. My father sang a brilliant concert for pittance in his sabha in 80's with VVS & Sivraman. It was out of love & reverence he had for Sethuraman. What a memorable concert it was & Sethuraman was weeping uncontrollably after the concert. Such was his love for Iyengarval & KVN music. He went to the extend of saying KVN had surpassed his master with his unique style. KVN took objection to the statement & said there would not have been a KVN but for Iyengaval & Mani Iyerval in his life.

MY RESPONSE: I want persons to know MORE about persons like PERAMBUR SANGEETHA SABHA SETHURAMAN. When an army of students like me used to walk to Perambur from Triplicane, Mylapore etc to listen to ARI, GNB, MMI,etc OF COURSE WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO EITHER PAY THE BUS FARE OR THE CONCERT ATTENDENCE FEES HE would let us in free. NOW A DAYS I only know Asthikasamajam Narasimhan & Nadopasana Srinivasan to BE IN THIS MOLD. Actually Narasimhan's Perambur story is a HISTORICAL GREAT among his many vote of thanks! It is said many used to go to LGJ PLAYING Violin to ANYBODY as a Lalgudi Concert. Similarly I used to go to concerts to listen to his vote of thanks!
Incidentally at one of MALI'S MANY BRILLIANT concerts-most vidwans gave their best concerts in Sethuraman's concerts like they are doing today at Asthika Samajam in Thiruvanmaiyur- his father took the MIC after a particularly moving & brilliant piece by Mali leaving the audience gasping for breath (tho' Mali was playing the flute with his!) & appealed to the audience to pray& advice Mali to be more disciplined etc. It was very moving; Mali just sat quietly & many in the audience were moved to tears. I am writing this because a REVOLUTIONARY GENIUS like Mali who demanded so much from his accompanists was VERY RESPECTFUL& QUIET when it came to the rasikas.
A LESSON CERTAINLY FOR EVERY ARTIST TODAY.......KVN'S RESPONSE WAS SO TYPICAL! THE MODESTY WAS GENUINE TOO. WHAT A GREAT MAN HE WAS TO KNOW EVEN SLIGHTLY.....VKV

[rajeshnat]

KNV,
Lovely to list all todis of Ariyakudi in one single post. In his generation the brindavana saranga , hamsanandi , dikshitar krithi say other than subramanyaya baggage just did not come in . I personally like the kali theera and amba nannu of ariyakudi a lot. Ariyakudi is surely a todi master and I like him for that.

Mrudangam kid,
If I am right the sequence of singing one song and the next without even having a gap of more than 15 seconds is something that i have observed with two other greats of his generation Maharajapuram vishwanatha Iyer ,chitoor pillai, Chembai . In that generation I find especially MVI most aggressive in sequence. This is not to refute the point of what you have written. Keep them coming

[rajeshnat]

# In general I see a lot of credit given to ariyakudi skipping other peers of his generation (chembai, Mvi etc ) . One is the actual paddhati created was Poochi Iyengar but no one talks about that , instead every one says it is ariyakudi . That point is done and dusted.

# Ariyakudi did tune tiruppavai (KNV-may I know which year it was I think it was post 1940's or 1950's - can you fish out the exact year line date?? ). Also I dont know from which year he started singing koteeswara iyer krithis (may be KNV or CACM can tell that year time line??). About a year or two back there was a program in Podigai about chembai by latest sk T V gopalakrishnan .

#TVG told one of the earliest proponents to introduce thamizh krithis in concerts was none other than chembai bhagavathar . He told in 1920's chembai started singing Gopalakrishna bharathi numbers in concerts and gave a recording also in some LP. Also historically when dandapani desigar sang just one thamizh krithi in tiruvayaru as part of T celebrations, Ariyakudi was furious with DD and asked all of the authorities to clean the place - a typical cleaning that you do in temple(this information was shared by an elderly relative of mine ) .

#This point of chembai was the first to sing GKB krithis and popularize thamizh more in an earlier year timeframe than ariyakudi is possibly a fact we all should never lose out .(I am awaiting KNV ,CACM to tell the year when ARI sang koteeswara iyer krithi in concerts . I do know tiruppavai tuning was much later in 40's and 50's. I am trusting TVG words that GKB compositions in thamizh came out in 1920's thru chembai for the first time in concert)

# I have lot to complain musically when I hear say ARI vs the vocal trinity of ssi-mmi-gnb(vocal trinity is my own term ), but i will leave that for another day.He was possibly an inventor/paddhati creator in a partial sense yes ,but how much we can call him and praise him so much that he was like a christopher columbus who discovered america type , atleast i am not buying this idea.

[arasi]

Rajesh,
Points taken, for the sake of accuracy in history, but just observe our culture where nore or less (sumArAga), irukkalAm (may be), eppozudO (at some time) are ingrained. You are one of the exceptions? May be not. The present generation perhaps is more after accuracy in placing events--the western influence?

Anyhow, were Shakespeare's works really penned by this man from Stratford uopn Avon or by some other dramatist? The question may remain unanswered, but should we care, so long as what we have is what matters?

I understand. This after all is recent history, and we should check on it. Other than that, I'd assume that Poochi, or Ari inspired by Poochi or Ari himself brought this about, but I'm not going to be too particular in unearthing all this because whosoever introduced this system would not have been the sole idea person, thinker on its merits and usher in of the same into the concert pattern. A gradual thought and execution, and then a system? My thoughts, anyway...

[kvchellappa]

I read that the structure was codified by ARI, taking into account an emerging trend, audience interest and the essence of CM. I wonder whether anyone can claim absolute ownership of any idea, we do not cede it even to God. When ARI is given the credit it is in the backdrop of the harsh criticism that was stridently being voiced. Even the vocal trinity gave the primacy to ARI unreservedly. I read that once when AIR was to broadcast ARI concert, an AIR staff came and asked who the artist for national programme was and GNB pointed to ARI and said, 'He is national. The rest of us are only regional.' ARI had a spark and like poets in a court or a devotee before a God, we say superlative things about the subject. That is understood and it does not mean that all others have had nothing of value. That ARI has done yeoman service to CM in its classicism and continuation must pass muster, I presume.

[cacm]

# In general I see a lot of credit given to ariyakudi skipping other peers of his generation (chembai, Mvi etc ) . One is the actual paddhati created was Poochi Iyengar but no one talks about that , instead every one says it is ariyakudi . That point is done and dusted.
MY RESPONSE: THE MAIN REASON ARI IS GIVEN CREDIT IS BECAUSE HE SINGLEHANDEDLY PERSUADED THE POWERS TO BE TO: 1) ACCEPT THIS SCHEME & MANAGED TO GET EVERY POWER- NATTUKKOTTAI CHETTIARS, ZAMINDARS , SABHAS ETC NOT ONLY TO ACCEPT IT - BUT IT BECAME THE ACCEPTED SCHEME. POOCHI IYENGAR MIGHT HAVE COME UP WITH IT- I AM NOT SURE HE DID- THERE WAS A HUGE MOVEMENT TO DISCREDIT ANYTHING ARI DID; FIRST THEY ATTACKED HIM SAYING HE BLINDLY REPEATED WHAT POOCHI TAUGHT HIM & HE HAD NO ORIGINALITY WHICH IS PATENTLY WRONG. ALSO POOCHI DID NOT SING AS MANY CONCERTS AS ARI DID NOT JUST FOR HIMSELF BUT HE HELPED OTHERS LIKE SEM NOT ONLY GET CONCERTS BUT GET FAR MORE MONEY THAN THEY WERE GETTING. I was going to write about his GENIUS in marketing later but you are forcing me...

# Ariyakudi did tune tiruppavai (KNV-may I know which year it was I think it was post 1940's or 1950's - can you fish out the exact year line date?? ). Also I dont know from which year he started singing koteeswara iyer krithis (may be KNV or CACM can tell that year time line??). About a year or two back there was a program in Podigai about chembai by latest sk T V gopalakrishnan
MY RESPONSE....I can go thru' the pile & let you know when I cover it.

#TVG told one of the earliest proponents to introduce thamizh krithis in concerts was none other than chembai bhagavathar . He told in 1920's chembai started singing Gopalakrishna bharathi numbers in concerts and gave a recording also in some LP. Also historically when dandapani desigar sang just one thamizh krithi in tiruvayaru as part of T celebrations, Ariyakudi was furious with DD and asked all of the authorities to clean the place - a typical cleaning that you do in temple(this information was shared by an elderly relative of mine).
MY RESPONSE. CHEMBAI while he gave many concerts MANY TAMILIANS EVEN TODAY DO NOT ACCEPT & MOCK HIM for Malayalee Tamil. So he could not POPULARIZE TAMIL SONGS. I THINK HE WAS A REAL POINEER. IN MY VIEW MMI WAS THE ONE WHO POPULARISED TAMIL COMPOSITIONS WELL BEFORE ANY ONE ELSE; NOT ME SAYING BUT S.RAJAM-I HAVE IT ON VIDEO TAPE! EVEN TODAY TELUGUS CALL TAMILIANS "ARAVA VADU" & TAMILIANS CALL EVERY ONE ELSE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. HIGGINS BHAGAVATHAR ONCE& FOR ALL WITH HIS KAA VAA VAA PROVED EVEN AMERICANS CAN BE GREAT IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE. SRI.T.Sadasivam himself when asked for perfect pronounciation in Tamil asked the person to listen to HIGGINS KAA VAA VAA! ARI was a typical Tamilian Iyengar. I was born IYER who claim great liberal mind because they celebrate Gokulashtami BUT IN MY VIEW TAMILIAN BRAHMINS ARE BOTH BIGOTED& PREJUDICED. This Vadadesathuu Vadama business is what can be called "HOOEY"
#This point of chembai was the first to sing GKB krithis and popularize thamizh more in an earlier year timeframe than ariyakudi is possibly a fact we all should never lose out .(I am awaiting KNV ,CACM to tell the year when ARI sang koteeswara iyer krithi in concerts . I do know tiruppavai tuning was much later in 40's and 50's. I am trusting TVG words that GKB compositions in thamizh came out in 1920's thru chembai for the first time in concert).
MY RESPONSE: I have NOT CLAIMED ARI sang Tamil songs earlier. DANDAPANI DESIGAR of course was TRULY GREAT but being N.B. WORKED AGAINST HIM. EVEN Chittoor was NOT given HIS DUE. Like blacks here were only allowed to play Jazz& Bsket ball THE STORY OF c.m. is a sordid tale. N.B.' s WERE ALLOWED to be ACCOMPANISTS as Pakkavadyam was/is considered a STEP BELOW MAIN ARTIST.

# I have lot to complain musically when I hear say ARI vs the vocal trinity of ssi-mmi-gnb(vocal trinity is my own term ), but i will leave that for another day.He was possibly an inventor/paddhati creator in a partial sense yes ,but how much we can call him and praise him so much that he was like a christopher columbus who discovered america type , atleast i am not buying this idea.

MY RESPONSE: HE IS THE CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS BECAUSE: 1) HIS OWN SINGING & ACCEPTANCE BY GNB, MMI & PRACTICALLY EVERY ARTIST AS MANASEEGA GURU. 2) HIS EFFORTS TO POPULARISE C.M. WAS WHAT MADE C.M. ATTAIN THE POPULARITY IT STILL HOLDS. 3) WITHOUT ARI C.M. TODAY would either be EXTINCT or confined to the back lanes of Tamil Nadu not to say REST OF INDIA NOT TO SAY ABROAD LIKE CLEVELAND.....VKV
WE CAN DISCUSS IT IN A LOGICAL FASHION. ONE OF THE DISADVANTAGES OF THIS FORMAT IS WE GO HITHER&THITHER DISCUSSING VARIOUS ANGLES.

[music1]

....... the repertoire of Iyengarval in Todi. It is really large. I can list the Todi Kritis sung by KVN. (obviously Iyengarval must have sung all the Kritis plus something more....:

I have heard B Rajam Iyer in a DD interview where he stated that Sri Ariyakudi know over a 100 kritis in Thodi ALONE. And he had the inate ability to sing each one of them without a reference material

[mahavishnu]

Rajesh, I am glad you raise these points. With all due respect to everyone and no malice intended, my personal feeling is that the history of Carnatic music suffers from a lot of inaccuracies in good measure due to hagiography. This is not to say that the irreverence espoused by young, upstart musicians is the way forward. But without clarity in the writing of history, all we have is narrative storytelling.

It is important while writing about Newton in history, it is clearly understood that he was a terrible administrator and quite mean to his colleagues, perhaps to the point of abusing his power as the Lucasian chair. This does not in any way detract from his greatness or standing in history. Accepting the the strengths and weaknesses of historical personalities, is an important way for society to evolve. But painting a story of Newton as a perfect individual, takes away from all the other people of his time that contributed to the science (such as John Flamsteed) whom Newton just brushed over with all the powers given to him by the Royal Society.

I raise the example of Newton, since VKV the physicist brought him up earlier in the discussion. Like him, I also see many parallels with Ariyakkudi Ramanuja Iyengar, but there are both positive and negative ways in which this comparison holds. Now, let's not even get started on Columbus. Any reasonable historian with no aspirations for revisionism will tell you that the comparison does no favors to ARI.

Arasi: I suppose in a culture where the myth is more important than the person it wouldn't matter if the Bard of Avon or one his peers created the work. But history behooves us to do better than that!

To quote Newton more appropriately in this context, Ramanuja Iyengar stood on the shoulders of giants, including juniors and contemporaries who raised the art form to what it is today. Giving him unilateral credit is where I think the history in this thread borders on hagiography.

[munirao2001]

As assured to Sri VKV Sir, I will post the result of my study and also personal experiences, shortly. In the meanwhile, I just wanted to share the historical detail on ARI-Ahunika cutcheri paddhati and Tamil compositions usage.
Tamil compositions singing-pann- was pre existing to Karnataka Music. Tamil compositions were being sung in temples and special sadas related to the celebration of festivals, as part of the rituals of worship. Devadasi and her accompaniments introduced the compositions as art form with more emphasis for the sangita aspects. During the Nayak rule, dasa saahithya based devotional keertanams, with simple but beautiful were introduced and propagated. Later the maratha rulers of Tanjore kingdom, in particular Sahayaji's reign, introduced and laid down the lakshana and lakshya for the teaching and develop devotional Karnataka Sangita as an art form. Telugu (becoming the state language) and Kannada (very minimal) languages were used because of the royal patronage given to Bhaghavatas, belonging to Telugu and Kannada speaking regions, but settled down in Tanjavur with the royal honor and support for making a living and practice the nascent and developing art form. Development of Karnataka Music as one of the greatest art forms received a big boost with Sahyaji and many Maha Vidwans in the Tanjore samasthanam. Trinity of Music made the Karnataka Music as a perfect and greatest art form of music. Practice of Dasas and their music belonging to the Karnataka region given the royal patronage, became popular when compared to Tmail language music-pann, thevaram and divya prabhandam. Thus the nascent and developing art form of music was named and became established as 'Karnataka Music' mainly due to the Bhagavathas and Harikatha exponents, very popular during that period.
Patnam Subrahmanya Yer, Peria Vaidyanatha Iyer and Maha Vaidyanatha Iyer, Oothukkadu Venkata Kavi and many HariKatha and Bhaghavathas were singing Tamil songs. Thevaram and Divya prabhandams were also set to music conforming to the art form of music in development during that period.

Maha Vidwans and disciples of Trinity made the art form of Karnataka Music very popular and Harikatha Bhgavatha Vidwans also used more and more of Trinity compositions. Tamil compositions did not receive the attention they deserved for making them beautiful art form compositions.
To state the fact, neither ARI or Chembai were the first to introduce tamil compositions. This is in brief, historical details will follow. We have written works for historical knowledge of these developments. The popular tendency for making statements arising out of idolizing and myth making, with personal motives behind them, should be stopped for the sake of truth and also to understand the greatness of the Maha Vidwans with true perspecitives and knowledge of their contributions to the practice of Karnataka Music art form, enriching. For e.g. the number of compositions in raaga Todi sung by ARI.

munirao2001