NET NEUTRALITY

[ganesh_mourthy]

Should we be worried about NET NEUTRALITY. What will be the impact the rasikas.org will have if it goes in favor of ISPs?

We connect through tab, phone , android, computer. Will this be the same?

[rshankar]

net neu·tral·i·ty
noun
the principle that Internet service providers should enable access to all content and applications regardless of the source, and without favoring or blocking particular products or websites

Why should this affect us?

[ganesh_mourthy]

Should enable impartial access. What if there is partiality. I am asking if it goes in favor of ISP. What if thngs goes against the Net Neutrality.

[Nick H]

I have given up keeping tabs on the news from the techie and techie/commercial worlds several years ago, but it might have been a mistake. I heard elsewhere, only yesterday, that India's ISPs are wanting to not only charge us for simple bandwidth but also according to how we use it.

When I last looked at a comparison (and it was a while back) India, a country with some of the poorest people in the world, has some of the most expensive internet bandwidth in the world. Wrong way round, but I guess profit is being made from it, and more is wanted.

[vasanthakokilam]

Nick, G_M: In the U.S. recent developments on this front are in favor of content companies like Netflix than the ISPs. We will see over time what shape they take. The ISPs know how to lobby for their interests. If Indian ISPs charge not just for bandwidth but for the type of content, that is the blatant violations of net neutrality principle. But here is the rub. They can easily use one segment of the population against the other. Their argument will be, why should people who do not stream Netflix type streaming video subsidize those who want to do that. Such class warfare is quite politically potent weapons.

interesting data on the cost of the (wired) internet bandwidth. On the other hand, cell phone rates are one of the cheapest in the world in India.

In some analysis I did a while back on this, per minute cell phone rate was inversely proportional to the population density. And that made sense since more people can share the same tower infrastructure. In U.S.A. where it is probably the most expensive, the population density is ok in major cities but outside of that the country is very sparsely populated. European rates were some what in the middle. So that all made sense directionally.

I guess that equation does not work for wired internet access since the marginal cost to onboard and keep a customer does not come down as the number of customers increase, and the barrier to entry for competitors is high. Hopefully high speed wireless data will become cheap enough in India over time. Last year itself was a big improvement from three years back that I can do most of what I wanted to do with pre-paid cellular data, including being connected to the internet pretty much for the entire travel from Coimbatore to Chennai. I could have definitely used much higher speeds but that will come.

[sridhar_ranga]

Your use of Whatsapp, Youtube and Skype over a 3G netwrok may soon become more expensive in India - you may be asked to pay a higher rate for these! Worse still, Airtel may strike a deal with WeChat and block Whatsapp and other competing chat apps on its network! The big telecom operators in India want to collect differential charges from both the users and the web sites / content providers. They have put up a proposal to TRAI to allow this. This is why net neutrality has become a hot discussion topic of in the country.

In India, the concept of net neutrality doesn’t exist legally but most companies have adhered to it until now. With the Internet taking the world into its folds, Internet Service Providers across the world are trying to encash this potent commodity and trying to control the traffic.

Telecom operators have lobbied ( especially Airtel and Vodafone) and gone to the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (TRAI) to allow them to block apps and websites and charge money from both consumers and businesses i.e they will get the license to violate net neutrality.

The absence of Net neutrality will change the way you know Internet now and your freedom will be at stake.

Without it, it would mean that Internet Service Providers will be able to charge companies which consume more bandwidth (for e.g YouTube) and that extra charge will be directed to you. Also, you won't be able to access other websites at the same speed unless you pay an additional sum else face the torture of a slow internet. For e.g big companies like Google will be able to pay more to make access to Youtube or Google+ faster for web users but a startup may not be able to do that which is sure to shatter entrepreneurial aspirations of millions. The telcos will derive huge profits out of it while the rights of consumers will be compromised.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/sci-tech/ ... 77953.html

[ganesh_mourthy]

I understand that it is much more complex than that. Now you need the equipment to connect ( computer and modem (or) smartphones) and pay for the internet.

But , if it goes in favour of ISP , they will prioritize some and sideline others. Because that now be it a company file sharing , or youtube, or whatsapp all the data flows the same way.
If the ISP favours paid bandwidth priority to companies, then probably they will occupy most of the bandwidth and for the free ones like youtube , there will move in the lower data packets. I guess it will be like an 8 lanes high way where 7 lines are dedicated to paid services and there will be one way left for all the unpaid websites and other resources. So , in that case, we may have to click the button in the morning and leave the laptop open for a reply of Nick and VK to be seen only in the evening.

But, the ISPs are up in arms with net neutrality because the app like whatsapps are encroaching into their business it seems. Say for instance , you can have an unlimited internet , and talk on ends in whatsapp call, ( now available) and millions of messages for free, all of that a kiss of death for telecom. Pshhhhhh they have their point too. So they want to charge separately for apps.

Imagine if several millions of people access Rasikas in a day and we become the top ten in traffic ranking, the ISPs can block Rasikas and convert it into paid services for users and visitors alike. Right VK?

I think we should sign the petition and send it to TRAI. Gets finalized on May 6.

Has anyone stumbled upon the petition website before it becomes a paid service to file a petition online. Now seriously , I read everywhere about filing petition and don't find it nowhere.

[ganesh_mourthy]

Sridhar ranga , you bet me to the information while I was typing. If this happens often can I block or throttle an individual IP , that is you, by paying more than you so that what I say goes first. . I think that comes next, consumer neutrality.

[Nick H]

I can understand that telecoms companies are peeved with apps like skype and whatsapp, because they compete directly by providing a direct person to person communications channel which is, supposedly, cheaper than using those provided by the telecoms company. However we still pay the telecoms company for the data, and, as for charging the companies (eg youtube, flipkart etc), I am sure they are paying already: they must have enormous bandwidth, and be paying enormous prices for it, so what is the problem with Airtel, etc? Or is it that Flipkart is somebody else's customer, and they are not seeing income from this traffic.

Don't American ISPs charge each other for border-crossing traffic, thus evening out some of this income --- or resulting in bad end-user service when they cannot agree?

[ganesh_mourthy]

Higher bandwidth means different. Just imagine 2 big convenience stores with ranges to sell, but one having many counters for entry and many counters to pay and exit and another with just one for a huge store. Naturally the second is going to suffers which results in stampede and closing. This is purchase of huge bandwidth.

What if a special partition is made in all the roads leading to that store as well so that customers reach congestion free while 1/4 th of the road is dedicated for other stores with a clear barricade where people have to jostle and squeeze and get through in that narrow path .

[rajumds]

Higher bandwidth means different. Just imagine 2 big convenience stores with ranges to sell, but one having many counters for entry and many counters to pay and exit and another with just one for a huge store. Naturally the second is going to suffers which results in stampede and closing. This is purchase of huge bandwidth.

What if a special partition is made in all the roads leading to that store as well so that customers reach congestion free while 1/4 th of the road is dedicated for other stores with a clear barricade where people have to jostle and squeeze and get through in that narrow path .

Your analogy is not fully correct. Both the stores will have multiple roads leading to them controlled by different companies. If A blocks the road to one shop, V may open it up. Ultimately I may choose A or V depending the shop I visit frequently.

The main grouse of the telecom companies is that they loose out heavily on voice calls / SMS to over the internet apps. They have paid huge amounts for the spectrum based on projected earning from voice and data. If the voice revenue is affected, they have to increase the tariff affecting all.

There is nothing called free lunch. Whether the charges are in line with usage pattern is the mute question. As someone who rarely uses over the net voice calls, I will be peeved if my call or data charges go up to compensate for the loss due to such calls

[Nick H]

It seems that there was/is an idea where Airtel, in return for a fee from a vendor, allows free-to the-customer traffic to that vendor's site. Isn't that a different thing to throttling some traffic in favour of other traffic? Or was prioritized traffic part of the deal?

It also seems that Flipkart's customer base, far from saying "Wow! Great idea!" are up in arms about it, and Flipkart have pulled out of the contract with Airtel.

[ganesh_mourthy]

Someone's loss is someone's gain. And the whatsapp is not giving it all free and they are starting to charge for the app. And I guess all the money goes to the american whatsapp at the expense of indian spectrum and bandwidth. If the free voice calling apps are a serious problem for the telecom , I will be happy if they focus on JUST THOSE and thwart them by adding a higher price for its usage. It is logical too.

[Nick H]

I don't know how long Whatsapp has been around: was it all free to begin with? I understood that the first year was free. My first year seems to have lasted a couple of years, but the settings tell me it is finishing soon!

[ganesh_mourthy]

was free in the beginning and I think many unrevealed changes were made when facebook bought it . During the initial launch there was no mention about annual fee but all the recent one had. There is an option for you to pay for others too. Viber seemed popular at one point and it is whatsapp now everywhere. Voice call was introduced recently. You can connect your laptop to the whatsapp and connect to other mobiles. You can add a big group and chat , so all can see . It is a group chat and you don't even feel like you are missing someone. Certainly there is an addiction and people use whatsapp more than FB.

[ganesh_mourthy]

And, by the by, my analogy is almost correct. Two shops- one special and one ordinary. You choose lane A or V , it does not matter. The special shop has paid a huge amount to the highway authorities to waive congestion charges if you are visiting them. All you have to prove is you are visiting the special store and you are free to go through. The ordinary shop visitors have to wait or get pulled over every time the special store visitor is passing by. Our Rasikas website can become the ordinary store.

[ganesh_mourthy]

Nick , the Hindu today has a news article with illustrations of net neutrality. There is also a picture. I am worried we should not be in the thin blue line one day.

[Nick H]

Thank you. Due to a major function at the next-door temple this morning, I did not have my usual relaxed tea-and-newspaper session. I'll go back and look for that.