Accompanying artist starting an alapana in a vocal concert??

[srikrishna]

The current format seems to put the violinist (or any accompanying musician) at a disadvantage as they must be attentive to every detail that is sung. Their interest in a ragam or talam that they want to play may change with the kritis sung till then. It seems reasonable to give the violinist at least a choice of raga alapana for the sub-main or main kriti and the mridangist the choice of tala for the main kriti or ragam-tanam-pallavi that they want to play.

[mohan]

In our current concert format, the role of a violinist and mrudangam artist is to accompany the vocalist. Of course the accompanists can request the vocalist to sing a particular item but ultimately the choice is of the vocalist!

If the violinist plays a solo concert then she can choose the ragas and items!

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, srikrishna, This kind of thing helps only to upset the apple-cart of the main artist though not of the accompanist. Please don't suggest such things for God sake. amsharma

[vasanthakokilam]

Sri. T.M.Krishna, are you listening?

[msakella]

Almost since last 15 years I have been an off-track artist. So, I have not been listening to many of my juniors. amsharma

[mankuthimma]

Sri. T.M.Krishna, are you listening?

VK We are supposed to be the naughty ones . You are supposed to be an embodiment of virtue , by many here .
So please dont steal our lines

Actually a series of Ramani concerts with Lalgudi ( in the US ) follows this format . And it is quite pleasant , indeed.

[vasanthakokilam]

>You are supposed to be an embodiment of virtue , by many here .

quite far from the truth, I have to do something about that

Another example is, in the Sumitra Nitin CD of Arasi compositions, in the ragamalika composition, the violinist starts the new raga and Sumitra follows. I thought it worked very well.

[sureshvv]

In a recent concert recorded for Charsur, Abhishek Raghuraman let the violinist Mysore Srikanth start the kambodhi alapana, IIRC. Worked out nicely with less of a gap between the raga alap and krithi rendering for the main artiste.

[arasi]

VK,
Good of you to remember my rAgamAlika! Yes, and as with Abhishek's CD too, I suppose this works in a crisp and short recorded format. In a regular concert where time is not a constraint, I don't know.

[Nick H]

I think we can find a word to accommodate this: let us call it jugalbandi!

When we see two equal vocalists in duet, we do not take any notice of who starts what. Particularly if the violinist is already recognised as a great, why should we not extend the idea?

Another aspect is that the vocalist relinquishes the control, and accepts the challenge of following.

These are just random thoughts --- I've never seen it done. Can't help thinking, though, that of innovations I've heard of in the past couple of days, I'd rather have this than flying kanjiras! Although, as mankuthimma gives us historical precedent from no less than Lalgudi, 'innovation' is probably the wrong word.
[quote=shrikrishna]It seems reasonable to give the violinist at least a choice of raga alapana for the sub-main or main kriti and the mridangist the choice of tala for the main kriti or ragam-tanam-pallavi that they want to play.[/quote]I feel that the situation is different for the mridangist. Leaving aside the challenge of playing for rare tala combinations, the tala is simply a structure on which he hangs his compositions: he can, in the tani, play what he wants to play.

[venkatakailasam]

I am providing two clips where the violinist commences the song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjXuKpn1gWM
E'-SWARA-006-N Bairavi N Malavai-Nee than Mechi kolla vendum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4QBY0c_NqY
E'-SWARA-009-N Bairavi N Malavai-neelavanam thannil

Incidentally,is it possible to identify the violinist ?

I have come across other clips also ,but not able to locate
immediately. During a flute recital, the violinist had commenced the concert.
venkatakailasam

[thenpaanan]

The current format seems to put the violinist (or any accompanying musician) at a disadvantage as they must be attentive to every detail that is sung. Their interest in a ragam or talam that they want to play may change with the kritis sung till then. It seems reasonable to give the violinist at least a choice of raga alapana for the sub-main or main kriti and the mridangist the choice of tala for the main kriti or ragam-tanam-pallavi that they want to play.

If the artists have coordinated before hand on what the rAgam is going to be there seems nothing wrong in letting the violinist go first? I know I would have preferred it sometimes. I have found it hard to switch ragas from one item to the next and I could certainly have used the suggestions/inspiration from the violinist. In what scenario could we let the mridangamist go first? That is an intriguing question.

-Then Paanan

[Nick H]

In what scenario could we let the mridangamist go first? That is an intriguing question.

Could somebody explain for me how that works with Thavil and Nadaswaram?

[mankuthimma]

Nick
Here is the excerpt of Lalgudi- Ramani - Sankaran that i mentioned.
The closest we can get to a vocal feeling in an instrumental concert.
If you like it I will put up two more clips where the violinist starts a thought process seamlessly , with his partner.

A real iconic concert . Wonder why this method never picked steam ?
Please keep visiting this folder for progressive additions
http://www.mediafire.com/?t2a2xoz3rnqg4

The inspiration for naming it Tigalbandi came from this article

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article891827.ece
from an account of an evening which is summed up beautifully in this sentence.

No distinct identity of Krishna emerged in the music itself, except for the obvious fact that the songs were on him (Remember . The theme was supposed to be . Chennai's master flautist S. Shashank, sitar artiste Shubhendra Rao, and the Manganiyars -- folk artistes from Rajasthan -- celebrate the magic of Krishna )

[Nick H]

(a fleeting visit to the internet: will be back later)

[vasanthakokilam]

It has been 5 years since this we discussed this. I even jovially asked TMK if he is listening. Now this is a regular feature of most TMK concerts. The original poster (OP) srikrishna was ahead of the times

[arasi]

VK,
TMK must have read your post or read your thoughts that many years ago, it seems

Since you have mentioned Sumitra Nitin starting the rAgamAlikA with Mysore Srikanth playing before she
sings it, more of what I think:

Yes, works well in a CD (we are used to even CM singers of yore using this 'an instrument ushering in a song' pattern. Then, when CM singers started singing in (for) films.

Even in this CD situation, Srikanth KNEW what the song was like. I don't think the violinist would know what song would follow, in a concert. I don't think that isn't an ideal situation--in the sense that say, the vocalist has mA jAnaki in mind and not tiruvaDi charaNam (or reverse it). We are so used to (so is the violinist) in taking in a rAgA and then a suitable pattern reflecting the mode and mood of the song following. Otherwise, they will really be two individual pieces in a concert!

If the vocalist tells the violinist what he's about to sing, then it may work better. Still, the flow of the concert may be impeded.

[Sundara Rajan]

I have a cassette of Kadri's Saxophone where in accompanist KanyAkumAri starts every item beautifully on the violin and then Kadri blares his saxophone . The first item in this recording is Ela nee dhayarAdhu in atANa, if I remember correctly. Some of you could have listened to the recording.

[mohan]

Having the accompanists play an alapana before the vocalist sings is quite common practice for bharatanatyam recitals. Of course the piece would be predetermined by the dancer.

[Rsachi]

This question, as I understand it, is more important in a Carnatic concert where the main artiste sings "manodharma" sangeeta including alapana, niraval and swaras.
The violinist normally accompanies or follows the main artiste. That makes sense because the main artiste sings a raga alapana as a prelude to the specific song he will sing and the content of the alapana is expected to enhance the mood of the forthcoming song.

If a violinist were to go first with the alapana, he should know what the following song is going to be. Otherwise the alapana may be off the mark.

This problem doesn't exist in bharathanatyam etc. where it is not generally a manodharma sangeeta but the entire ensemble is an accompaniment to the dancer. The instrumental introduction to the song there enhances the mood and helps the singer get into the mood of the raga and the dance item to follow.

[CRama]

At the outset I would like to reiterate that I am not an approver of TMK's present day concert formats.

I would like to share my very recent experience in this regard. Manorama Music has released a CD of Ranganatha Sharma where he has sung two RTPs- (A very good buy)- one RTP in two ragas Ranjini and Sreeranjini, and another RTP in Nasikabhooshani in two nadais. I bought this during my recent visit to Ambalapuzha temple. In an earlier Pallavi Durbar, he had sung the RTP in Ranjani mala, which was excellent. SO I bought the CD to listen to a good alapana of Ranjani and Sreeranjani by RS and of course, to listen to the entire RTPs. Alas, when I played the CD, Ranjani ragam comes in violin- This is not what I wanted to hear. I was much disappointed. Then thanam also started by violin and RS follows and then the entire RTP presented very well. The same format for the next RTP also. I could not listen to the raga alapana of RS. Hence felt disappointed. Had RS continued the second phase of alapana, that would have been better. But I am sure that this is an isolated case of RS. He will not follow the TMK path.

When somebody goes to a vocal concert of Abhishek, he would like to hear the typical Abhishek's alapana and any violinist- however good - can not substitute the alapana of Abhishek.

[Sivaramakrishnan]

CRama , it seems to be a case of improper / unimaginative / production & editing by Manorama music! Of course we must know if the package was approved by RS.

[kvchellappa]

It will be a nice idea to have a violin musical offering by Sri Sriram Kumar, with Sri TMK as pakka vaipattu. We may have no mridangam or Sri Arun Kumar.

[arasi]

pakkA vAip pATTu pakka vAip pATTAgalAmO?
pakkamirundu paRaiyolikkum 'pagalavan'um
pakkuvamAi olikkum nALO, alladu pArthiruppArO?

பக்கா வாய்ப் பாட்டு பக்க வாய்ப் பாட்டாகலாமோ?
பக்கமிருந்து பறையொலிக்கும் பகலவனும் அன்று
பக்குவமாய் ஒலிப்பரோ, அல்லது பார்த்திருப்பரோ?

How can pakkA music become pakka (side) music?
Will the drum player too, the 'sun', on this day--
Play along sweetly or will just be watching?

[pattamaa]

in one concert last season - i think KGS, there was no mridangam - just TMK and SRK (not shah rukh khan, but sriram kumar):

they were equal partners...

[rajeshnat]

At the outset I would like to reiterate that I am not an approver of TMK's present day concert formats.

When somebody goes to a vocal concert of Abhishek, he would like to hear the typical Abhishek's alapana and any violinist- however good - can not substitute the alapana of Abhishek.

First of all it is not TMK who did this first , there were few contemporary musicians who did say in 2003 or 2004 that I heard prior to TMK coming up with his own order juxtaposition.

I will add it is just not alapana where violinist start . At times the irritation has spread even to taanam where the vocalist takes the voice rest and gives the entire Taanam to violinist . That is also a letdown to me.

[ramamantra]

In a recent concert recorded for Charsur, Abhishek Raghuraman let the violinist Mysore Srikanth start the kambodhi alapana, IIRC. Worked out nicely with less of a gap between the raga alap and krithi rendering for the main artiste.

Good for a change. A vocalist always has to lead, build the mood for the raga step by step. The violinist has it easy simply following the mood. So, for a change, let the vocalist have it easy.