The Key to Success

vsuresh · Post by **vsuresh** » 31 May 2015, 20:51

As a second generation Indian, you can experience things in the USA that first generation Indians cannot even experience in India. Carnatic music is one of these celebrated art-forms. Carnatic music is 2000 years old and is practiced by people all around the world. Some of these practitioners are students who are taught by gurus who are generous enough to share their knowledge. Yet, many people have the knowledge but not the inspiration. These two go along together like bread and butter. Knowledge is only the base but inspiration is the key to success. An artiste without inspiration is like a ship without a propeller. This inspiration can be found not in an object but in a world of music. The Cleveland Tyagaraja festival creates this world with 2 weeks of non-stop concerts, symphonies, plays, ensembles, and a day of musical competitions. This experience is great for artists in the making and for already seasoned artistes. So, what does it take to be an artiste? After all, not everyone can be an artiste.

Artistes are made up of knowledge, inspiration, and most importantly, practice. Many people think that ability is what makes up the artiste’s career but it is the practice and the motivation that helps to guide you to perfection. Sometimes, people can get misled by the power of ability. Many people go to competitions expecting to be holding a trophy at the end. Some of these people do not get prizes. They feel like their talent is not good enough. This is not true. In my mind, anyone can be a great artiste, but they need the right balance of practice, motivation, and knowledge. But is that enough?

One of the most important factors is to have a good mentor. For example, my guru, Shri Chitravina N Ravikiran is a consummate artiste. My music is definitely full of mistakes when he is on the verge of complete perfection. Even so, he helps correct my failures and I learn in the process. He helped me find my calling.

I hope that many people realize that sheer talent can take one nowhere. If you pick up a subject and have the motivation to practice, you can go anywhere. And if you have the right Guru who mentors you and ensures that you are on the right path, you are all set. Not only in music, but in any field you choose. I strongly feel that people should realize what they’re motivated about, and take that to perfection. The key to success is motivation, practice & having the right mentor!!

Sanjay Suresh - Fifth Grader
Kromrey Middle School, WI, USA

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 31 May 2015, 21:50

Sanjay,
May I know how old you're, my friend? Just curious because your English isn't that of a second generation Indian American. Your English is that of a typical Indian in his 30's-40's, living in Mylapore!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Jun 2015, 00:41

Sanjay,
It's great to hear from you! You have all the right ideas and maturity for a ten/ eleven year old (I'm guessing your age). Yes, you are fortunate--even more so because you are sensitive and sensible enough to understand what it takes to be a good student. Good luck in all that you do

Sachi,
You catch even me, an old school person using slang once in a while! One thing about children growing up here (mine did, and now theirs): when they write essays, they write like this. After all, they are exposed to works of the masters in literature as they go through grades. Some go further and read far more. And, Harry Potter helps too

Writing is one thing. What Sanjay is thinking is more impressive...

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 01 Jun 2015, 03:59

Arasi,
I missed somehow the language of an American-educated youngster ("uninfluenced" by Indians much older)

That's all.

Young Suresh's takeaway, of course, is valuable for all ages: musical accomplishment needs mentoring as much as practice, but most importantly, inspiration. The inspiration he seems to have found in Cleveland!

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 01 Jun 2015, 08:59

I hope that many people realize that sheer talent can take one nowhere. If you pick up a subject and have the motivation to practice, you can go anywhere. And if you have the right Guru who mentors you and ensures that you are on the right path, you are all set. Not only in music, but in any field you choose. I strongly feel that people should realize what they’re motivated about, and take that to perfection. The key to success is motivation, practice & having the right mentor!!

RSachi
It was not the english , but this passage . Unless it is a 40 year old still in 5th grade

Wonder what a first generation , second generation Indian means .

The key to success is motivation, practice & having the right mentor!!

At 60 , I am tempted to add : Divine Grace

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Jun 2015, 09:24

btw, let us discuss the content and not the age of the author. For, if there is a chance if your suspicions are misplaced, I do not want a talented youngster to be bitter about the reception he is getting here.

That said, Sanjay, I would like to know the context, just out of curiosity. What prompted you to write this? Is this an essay you always had it in you to write or there is a recent specific motivation.

I do like the simplicity and clarity of the message. Varsha, agreed, such divine grace makes things that much better. Blessed are those who get it.

The message applies to most fields. May be this is tangential but consider that there are many incredibly brilliant software engineers and computer scientists out there. Some are brilliant in general, logical and intuitive as well. But there are only a few who happen to be at the right place at the right time to be part of something that gets widely used and massively successful. So abundant talent is a necessary condition but not sufficient. Inspiration, self-motivation, right channeling, purpose and above all someone who is right for you who can provide guidance.

vsuresh · Post by **vsuresh** » 01 Jun 2015, 09:34

Thank you arasi for your encouragement. Others: I am a Carnatic Music teacher and a promoter of Carnatic music in the state of Wisconsin, and it is only natural that my children pick up the language that I use all the time in these events. I always tell my audience that these events are primarily to ensure that second generation Indians stay connected to their cultural roots.
Sanjay is 11 years old, and has made several friends in Cleveland, and is in awe of Carnatic music. He is also very sensitive of the people he mingles with. He spent over a year in Bangalore, studying in Himamshu school, and because of the experience, he is quite adept at switching to an Indian accent when he talks to his grandmothers.
I primarily shared it because I thought that it would be an inspiration for other children of his age i.e. second-generation Indians like himself, as a 40 year old would put it!!

Thank you for taking the time to read it.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 01 Jun 2015, 09:34

http://host.madison.com/news/local/educ ... 963f4.html

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 01 Jun 2015, 09:38

Varsha,
Yes. Divine grace. tEnavinA tRNamapi na calati.... A song you and I grew up with.

And I think it is only divine grace (like a stem cell) that becomes talent, opportunity, mentorship, inspiration, even expression.

This Sloka is an eternal favourite of mine, sir!

BG 15.15

sarvasya cāhaḿ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaḿ ca
vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
vedānta-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham
SYNONYMS

sarvasya — of all living beings; ca — and; aham — I; hṛdi — in the heart; sanniviṣṭaḥ — situated; mattaḥ — from Me; smṛtiḥ — remembrance; jñānam — knowledge; apohanam — forgetfulness; ca — and; vedaiḥ — by the Vedas; ca — also; sarvaiḥ — all; aham — I am; eva — certainly; vedyaḥ — knowable; vedānta-kṛt — the compiler of the Vedānta; veda-vit — the knower of the Vedas; eva — certainly; ca — and; aham — I.
TRANSLATION

I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas, I am to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.

vsuresh · Post by **vsuresh** » 01 Jun 2015, 09:52

vasanthakokilam wrote:btw, let us discuss the content and not the age of the author. For, if there is a chance if your suspicions are misplaced, I do not want a talented youngster to be bitter about the reception he is getting here.

That said, Sanjay, I would like to know the context, just out of curiosity. What prompted you to write this? Is this an essay you always had it in you to write or there is a recent specific motivation.

The whole Cleveland experience, and the musical guidance he got from his Guru during the trip, is what inspired him to write this essay. I was pleasantly surprised to see him dabble in non-fictional writing for a change, and decided to share it!!

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 02 Jun 2015, 08:06

The essay, the explanation, the link - all - looks like some new way of seemingly sophisticated promotional material.

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 02 Jun 2015, 08:42

Yes,the message is good indeed. However, in this context I am reminded of R. Krishnamurthy about his son Rohan.

asangeetha · Post by **asangeetha** » 02 Jun 2015, 09:08

Sanjay is a small child who has expressed his passion for music so articulately and it was nice of the parents to share that with this group considering the name of the forum is 'rasikas' or how to appreciate. I dislike the connotation that it was done for promotion etc. Growing up in this time and world, its a big achievement to feel a sense of passion about anything for a 11 year old and the fact that its for Carnatic Music growing up in the USA is commendable.

I fail to see any parallels with this and self-promoting activities.

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 02 Jun 2015, 11:19

asangeetha wrote:Sanjay is a small child

That's the trick - use a small child.

asangeetha wrote:this group considering the name of the forum is 'rasikas' or how to appreciate.

All the same, the group doesn't appreciate just 'everything'.

asangeetha wrote:its a big achievement to feel a sense of passion about anything for a 11 year old and the fact that its for Carnatic Music growing up in the USA is commendable.

Wrong. What is a big achievement for Carnatic music is: if north Indians take to it; if Dalits show a sense of belongingness and passion to the music; if it is propagated to foreigners like Western classical is to the Chinese/Japs et al and they look at it as culture; and so on. For NRIs to take to CM so that don't feel isolated in western world was surprising probably in the 60s and definitely not achievement or for CM commendable etc.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Jun 2015, 18:13

My two cents:

With the authority invested upon me as a grandparent

, I feel like stating this: if it so happens that one of my grandchildren refuses to learn CM which is dear to many in the family, imagine my going bonkers about it, start feeling frustrated to the extent that I blame the teachers, their gurus and theirs, this country we live in, our neighbors, the unavailability of fresh vadu mango or AvakkAi here to make my own pickles--well, you can believe that I have already successfully discouraged a number of young aspirants who would learn and enjoy CM. Bingo

When I was at college, I have seen a few students feel homesick, feel isolated, and I am sure they all grew up and started leading fulfilling lives! In the same way, those who left India made their own lives meaningful, some going even further and worked on creating an atmosphere (no easy task) where our cultural expressions would take root and flourish--interest the locals too to boot.

I was hoping Sanjay's inspiring writing would inspire other youngsters writing about their experiences in this thread

Do I know Sanjay? No. His family, no. These kids make me feel happy and proud, no matter.
They are not my grandchildren, but I feel just as proud. Why? Because they are going to be part of a new heritage.

It certainly wasn't a feeling of isolation and the experiencing of it, nursing one's misery just by listening to CM all alone which brought about the unbelievable interest, care and nurturing of it outside of India. Years of hard work against odds, building it up (an uphill struggle) are all fit to be recounted in the musical history books of the future. As for me, how little have I contributed

That's why I am filled with admiration and awe for what has been done so far to make CM part of our landscape here!

Above all, there are the children who love it too, and they want to make it a precious part of their lives:)

Way to go, Sanjay and all the numerous young CM lovers!

Another thread has the RTP concert given by the youngsters in Chicago. Please read it and see how they are doing. Their zeal, parental support and an excellent guru made it all happen...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Jun 2015, 02:52

Ramamantra, what is your take on the content of the article posted? That is the important thing. If it is for promotional so be it, we can not read the minds of others. It is a waste of time debating about it.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 03 Jun 2015, 06:18

I am 100% with arasi and comments. We first time immigrants try to carry our belief, tradition, culture and interest wherever we go and wherever we live. Flocks of same feather gather together and continue those.

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 03 Jun 2015, 08:44

VK RAMAN wrote:I am 100% with arasi and comments. We first time immigrants try to carry our belief, tradition, culture and interest wherever we go and wherever we live. Flocks of same feather gather together and continue those.

Its all alright. Its quite natural to feel isolated and lean on home culture. Not only you guys, its the same for any migrant. If a Japanese migrated to Australia after world war 2, he'd lean on bonsais and koto to belong. Same for Mexian immigrants or East Europeans. Migrants everywhere have the same feeling. Why overdo in this forum? Increasingly, I find this CM forum incline towards NRI migrants and their cultural/emotional necessities. This is a CM forum (I believe), not migrants' (although they may have founded it).

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Jun 2015, 08:57

Rama mantra,
What is it that you are saying? It's diagonally opposite to what we are trying to convey! Did you read my post fully?

By the way, you are aware, aren't you, that Rasikas.org is largely voiced by those living abroad? The admin members too are outside of India...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Jun 2015, 09:13

Recently I came to know about someone who wanted to learn Sanskrit from a good teacher remotely. She has been asking for recommendations from quite a few sources including many in India but she could not find anyone satisfactory. Good teachers are hard to find in general. And finding someone who is at ease teaching remotely is even harder. I pointed to her my friend in Houston who conducts weekend Sanskrit classes ( I was going to provide a link here to his site but then decided against it. I do not want his great name and reputation be dragged through the mud here, I can't take that risk even if it is minuscule ). He also accepts students through skype. She found him to be the most suitable. Ironical, the right Sanskrit teacher for her was found in Houston. I told her jokingly that the other field where this is going to happen is Carnatic Music, may be in the next decade

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 03 Jun 2015, 09:34

arasi wrote:Rama mantra,
What is it that you are saying? It's diagonally opposite to what we are trying to convey! Did you read my post fully?

By the way, you are aware, aren't you, that Rasikas.org is largely voiced by those living abroad? The admin members too are outside of India...

Sorry, I don't read 'fully' long winding posts that never seem to go anywhere.

vasanthakokilam wrote:Ironical, the right Sanskrit teacher for her was found in Houston. I told her jokingly that the other field where this is going to happen is Carnatic Music, may be in the next decade

You can take the place away from CM but not CM away from the place. CM belongs only in India, south India. Isolating the music/culture from the place (the soil, the Kaveri thanni, the air, the weather and the age-old customs of ppl) and bringing it up in a closed community in an unrelated environs can only amount to bringing up an adopted kid who will later on seek birth parents or be obsessed with them all the time -be it CM, Sanskrit or Yoga. (What's the use?) Its the second best option to being childless - that's all.

Anyway, the 'forum elders' (as usual) are all after me hammer & tongs - just because I seemed to be open, direct, honest and to the point. So, I lay down my arms and let them attack somebody else and watch the fun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Jun 2015, 10:03

Ramamantra, definitely it is not attack from me, just a point of discussion. I do not think others are attacking you either. You do hold cynical views in general and you should expect some opposite opinions. Don't hide under any illusory righteous indignation. That is not necessary for a good open conversation. It is your choice whether you want the conversation to be adversarial or not.

That said, there is a certain measure truth to what you say, at least as it exists today as to where the soul or natural belongingness of CM is. But consider this, that is pretty much what people said when the center of CM moved to Chennai from the Cauvery delta. I think it is veenai kuppaiyyar who first setup the base in Chennai and there was financial support available in Chennai and slowly and begrudgingly the center shifted. It is no longer centered around Kauveri however unfortunate it is, contrary to your claim. I agree Chicago is not Chennai but the point is CM has already been taken out of the Cauvery delta and she is thriving very well indeed. Just like you say, once in a while people trace the roots back to the Cauvery delta including the annual tamasha that happens there in the name of paying homage to the great composer.

Same thing was said about Bombay, once Chennai was well recognized as the seat of CM. Who knows where the soul of anything is, but CM does thrive in Mumbai.

All those are actually secondary points. Let us grant the soul of CM is in South India. Fine. But there are a lot of Indian related things going on in North America culturally (whether it is CM, Bharathanatyam or whatever ) and boxing all of them under some narrow hypothesis and pop psychoanalysis just does not cut it. It is much bigger and deeper than all of that. It is a cliche to say that we live in a gloabl village etc. but with so much advances in global communications in the past decade and more, things that were not possible before are very much possible and the world does look much more connected. People do not feel isolated or lead a cocooned life. At least there are options and opportunities not to live such a life. That is the distortion I want to provide an opposite view point on.

The people who are involved in such cultural activities in North America are indeed worried if the second generation of Indian immigrants would keep this going. That is still an open question. I have my doubts as well. We will see concrete evidence of it when the second generation parents motivate their kids to go to music and dance classes just like their parents did to them. That part of the story is not written yet.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 03 Jun 2015, 10:49

It is disturbing to note the lack of clarity and understanding. Karnataka Sangeetham, one of the greatest of Arts, is now multi continental music and within a decade, it will be global music. It is beyond geographical and region specific. The art which was restricted to select gatherings in the courts of kings and later rich few patrons, was transformed to an art to a larger public and various centers of performing and appreciation have taken deep roots and thriving. Karnataka Sangeetham to be enjoyed by the larger population needs outreach program-music appreciation and more listening opportunities to remove the barriers, also teaching and support systems for learning and practicing. Art practicing gains higher level with sense of security for its practice-financial and non financial factors. One of the most important psychological senses of insecurity is conditioned mind with pride, prejudice, bias and favoritism. Celebration of meritocracy over excess reliance on popularity will support the practitioners and also for true enjoyment of art by the rasikas. All the efforts by many event managers and other stake holders of art and achievement of excellence will result in the growth and development of art. And also its influencing the very living with refinement and enrichment.

I urge all to gain freedom of the mind and support the transformation taking place-individually and collectively.

munirao2001

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 03 Jun 2015, 11:52

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74Mzt-DTHsk

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 03 Jun 2015, 11:58

munirao2001 wrote: One of the most important psychological senses of insecurity is conditioned mind with pride, prejudice, bias and favoritism.
munirao2001

First of all, this will be an endless argument of where anything belongs, whether there is even anything like belonging et al. Having said that there is no insecurity in pride. Are the English insecure in taking pride of their language? Although it has pervaded the whole world, don't they still look down upon any English other than theirs? Queens, they call it. Where's the insecurity in that?

munirao2001 wrote:It is disturbing to note the lack of clarity and understanding. Karnataka Sangeetham, one of the greatest of Arts, is now multi continental music and within a decade, it will be global music. It is beyond geographical and region specific.
munirao2001

On the contrary, it is disturbing that in your seeming magnanimity, you have missed out the clarity of roots of CM and that's what the point is. Yes, like I mentioned earlier, take it beyond the shores - spread it around like Western classical that cultures like Chinese/Japs etc., feel proud to adopt and make it theirs. Can the migrants do it? NO. They just circulate it among themselves. No big picture, no expansion. A small island like England was able to conquer the whole world - well, almost. (If you'd ever been to Ireland, you'd know that England terrain is exactly Ireland - just bigger).

VK, aren't you contradicting yourself when you say I hide.... If I were to hide, why wld I waste my time writing lots of sense in this forum? All I meant was the exchange of ideas is not even. It is many ppl against just me (btw, arasi's response was an attack and what did she mean by the admin members are outside India etc - what senseless things to say), and I'm really not interested in carrying on making ppl see my perspective.

Arasi, migrants are migrants - that's all there's to it. There is no credit in being prosperous migrants. Come down your high horses. You are not preserving CM. Its poor musicians who spend a lifetime and saints like Tyagaraja (who discarded wealth) preserve CM with their compositions. Patrons just do their bit. If it is not migrant patrons, CM will find other ways to preserve itself. Let's respect CM and not ourselves and not promote ourselves all the time.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 03 Jun 2015, 16:12

ramamantra Sir,

Each culture with its own Kala/Art has sampradaya-sampath-knowledge and practices- handed down with belonging to individual-Guru, a group-Guru & Sishya parampara and collective- society (rasikas). Pride with sense of attachment and possessiveness results in conflicts and results in sense of insecurity. Love, selfless, is creative and Pride, with self obsession, is destructive.

Sense of mind with attachment and possession takes the pride of origin and root. Possessive mind is in conflict of a geographical location, area or region. One of the great quality of art is transcending and achieving the equality. Native and migrant is artificial and legal constructs ( e.g.Family of Thyagaraja were migrants !) Mind space is beyond this artificiality and legality. Art engulfs the mind space. Every one physically, is both the native and migrant in relationship with geographical location of living in time space. Art thrives with rasikas contributions and patronage. All who take and partake the pleasure of the art-idealistic or materialistic, are the rasikas. For the collective good, individual well being and contribution is a must. Individual well being is in relationship with recognition and reward. Urge and drive for inspiration, creativity and communication is for recognition and reward. It is innate. Recognition and rewarding an individual contributor is also recognizing the greater art, within and without. Real pleasure or happiness is in sensing the all round spread of pleasure and happiness, not in isolation or insulation, but in inclusiveness.

munirao2001

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 03 Jun 2015, 17:28

May l make a suggestion? Instead of senior citizens like me and super connoisseurs like Munirao or shining lights of Indian culture like Arasi, can we leave this space in this thread to be occupied by similarly young CM enthusiasts like Sanjay, aged less than square of four in years, with their fresh, unalloyed, enthusiasm, and newbie prattle, rather than ponderous debate and paranormal pontification about pursuits of Indian culture beyond the seven seas?

My penchant for such turn of phrase is a personal failing coming from addled body and muddled brain, a singular affliction of age. Please therefore simply understand my message to read:
Leave youngsters well alone, no more gyan-baaji pullleeaaze.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 03 Jun 2015, 18:36

"CM belongs only in India, south India." what an exclusive statement and now let us blame any CM activity overseas and Jaya TV for spearheading the TV coverage of Aradhana. I did not know, Carnatic Music was the exclusive monopoly of South India. No more comments on this thread by me.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Jun 2015, 19:16

Ramamantra,
While making negative statements in this thread, I wonder if you remembered that it was started by a child who loves CM.

We elders are long winding, granted. Your statements then--are they based on 'your own ideas' about what we do or do not say?

I hope (from many of your posts I have read, so far) that if I had stayed in south India and you had known me, you would have shown me nothing but respect.

One positive thing about it all is your forum name: what better for us lot than to await our end by repeating it? So, all is not lost.

You are not expected to comment on this post, since you won't read it anyway and if you do so, it better be based on what I have, and others have said so far--those of us who are waiting for God in a doomed far away place...

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 03 Jun 2015, 19:32

ramamantra wrote:

You can take the place away from CM but not CM away from the place. CM belongs only in India, south India. Isolating the music/culture from the place (the soil, the Kaveri thanni, the air, the weather and the age-old customs of ppl) and bringing it up in a closed community in an unrelated environs can only amount to bringing up an adopted kid who will later on seek birth parents or be obsessed with them all the time -be it CM, Sanskrit or Yoga. (What's the use?) Its the second best option to being childless - that's all.

Anyway, the 'forum elders' (as usual) are all after me hammer & tongs - just because I seemed to be open, direct, honest and to the point. So, I lay down my arms and let them attack somebody else and watch the fun

Dear Ramamantra,
You are open and forthright, but not open-minded, which is far more important and more likely to lead to wisdom. It is true that raising kids to appreciate Indian culture in the West is an arduous task and I really appreciate parents who do it well. Your comparison and outlook regarding adoption are offensive and ignorant and completely lacking in validity.

What exactly is wrong with an adoptive kid being obsessed with birth parents or seeking them out later in life? Adoptive children are human beings too and do not owe anything to the families that adopted them. I hope that if an adoptive child ever enters your life, you will hold your tongue and not say the things you do - you would be hurtful and likely to alienate.

I do not blame you. I wish to open your heart and mind. I speak from personal experience - to me, adoption is not and never ever was the second best alternative to being childless. That is a point of view people who do not understand adoption hold. For adoptive children, their adoptive parents are their entire world. Adoptive parents are as "real" as birth parents are said to be.

If my son wants to seek his biological mother or father (it's most often the mother who looms larger in the psyche of adoptive families), I will support him as much as I can and it is my great sadness that this is a difficult task as adoptions in India are not open, and priority is given to the privacy of the birth parents, especially the mother. I would really like the laws to be changed and birth records to be opened. My son is faced with other people referring to his birthparents as his real parents these days.. I accept that whole heartedly. I do stand up for myself and insist that I am his real mother - I raised him, each and every day of his life after he came to me, but I teach him that his birthmother is real too.. she gave birth to him - she IS his mother.

The reason I would support my son is because I love him. I accept him not only as my own own own baby and boy, but also as someone who was given to me as a gift, who has a genetic heritage of his own, whose mother loved him for the first 3 months of his life - I could and still can see that - and gave him a beautiful, divine name. He is a human being like anyone else, perfectly susceptible to showing interest in his heritage - not only the one he grew up in, but in the one he was born to. It is not only my son who would be interested in his birth parents. I am too. I've watched him, his sweetness, his sunny temperament, natural musicality, his uncanny insight into the feelings of others, his goodness, and I wonder how he got all that, whom he takes after, beyond the things I've taught him.. I am humbled by the power of his heritage. I would love to meet his birth mother too, and would consider it a privilege.

Please, for heaven's sake educate yourself, open your mind and don't talk such absurdities. Being open like this in a forum where there are thousands of people who are different from you is not wise , nor is it even remotely a virtue.

Yet I thank you for this opportunity to speak of adoption in the hope that many others may find something to think about, and understand better. If do feel this is important for a largely ignorant society where adoption has only just started to gain ground. Adoptive families, especially the kids, need the support of an accepting and understanding and wise society.

Adoptive children are gifts to us, every child has a right to have a loving family and to be raised in safety and hope. We are not doing them a favor, it is our duty as a society to provide this minimum to every child and not denigrate their need.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 03 Jun 2015, 20:37

Ranganayaki - thank you for that very personal post and a bigger thank you for allowing us a peek into an intensely private world - I for one feel enormously privileged and humbled that I have had a glimpse of it. A thumbs up seems very inadequate to appreciate a posting such as yours!

At the same time, I am afraid you (and many others) may be indulging in FTT (I have removed the DN from DNFTT, for those that do not understand....).

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 04 Jun 2015, 03:33

I'm a bit confused about how adoption entered into all this. Is it just because it was used as a simile, but hey...

I take it that you have adopted a son, Ranganayaki? I'm a little confused by this statement:

Adoptive children are human beings too and do not owe anything to the families that adopted them.

As an adopted child, I am quite clear that I owe everything to the parents who adopted me, and very little, apart from the physical vehicle, to those who conceived and gave birth to me. They are the people who nurtured and formed me and the life I was to lead; they are (or were while they lived) my parents! Yes, I even grew to resemble them. So much for genetics! I'm so happy to know that you are, similarly, giving someone a life.

Moving on from that, that understanding, and various related knowings that I have that arose from it (blood is not thicker, etc... genetic background is not that important... and so on) of course there is is curiosity, and I did, at one point, apply for the record of my birth and access to my adoption file. If anything, the experience strengthened my feelings. I certainly did not set out on any quest to find or meet my birth parents (mother only recorded) and I would have felt like an intruder if I had, I think that the parent, having had to give up the child, has the right to draw the line and move on, and that should be respected. UK has a register, where either side may put their name if they wish for contact.

I suddenly remember something that my mother said to me. perhaps it was a bad day, I have no clue what I might have been saying, but she told me, "There is one thing that an adopted child can be very sure of. That is that their parents did want them."

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jun 2015, 04:03

Ranganayaki,
I am touched by what you have to say--My respect for you grows--knowing that you are not only loving your child but are also very sensitive to his feelings. Not surprising, the way I imagine you to be. However, it occurred to me--surely, children go through this phase, as they go through other phases of questioning in their growing years. Any simple puzzlement can be tough. This, very much more so.

I wrote a story about this exact thing years ago for a tamizh children's publication. Will see if I can find it.

Meanwhile, Nick's post says it best, with authenticity and conviction. A chosen child too he is, and I hope you find a lot of comfort in what he has to say...

Nick,
I am sure your parents who invited you into their lives with open arms and hearts brimming with love for you are smiling down upon you...

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 04 Jun 2015, 05:18

Nick H wrote:I'm a bit confused about how adoption entered into all this. Is it just because it was used as a simile, but hey...

Nick, yes, it was the simile, which was particularly inappropriate and ill informed.. I would never have spoken if his words had not bothered me. I could not ignore it as "just a simile", because it was wrong; unlike the west, where adoptions are quite common and much better received, a little open talk about it is needed in Indian circles especially where there is evident misinformation and I cannot ignore that need. This is how I felt and I chose to speak up.

I just did not like Ramamantra saying that adoption is not a great option, only the second best thing to being childless. That is not true. I wanted to open his eyes.

I"m sorry this took up any space in a CM forum. But for me it was important to speak up.

Ravi, thanks for your kindness. I spoke to Ramamantra from my heart and I don't believe I was feeding tt. I do believe that he will read and understand. If not, I will learn a rough lesson and will hope to be able to shut up another time, but who knows. If something needs to be said, I have to speak up and THEN give up.

Nick, I feel touched that you shared your experience with me. Everything you say about your views comes from your own experience and I completely respect that. If genetics don't matter to you, that's great. You are an adoptive child, though. As an adoptive PARENT, I could not possibly feel that all that matters is that I raised my kid and that he was an empty slate before me. That would be disrespectful. No matter what, there are some things I KNOW did not come from nurture, but from my kid's innate nature, and I am curious to know the amazing background of that.

I do want adoption and birth records to be openable. But for me, there is no wish to show up at a doorstep and barge into people's lives. I just believe that adoptees should have the ability to know more if they want, and if circumstances will allow it and if everyone related by birth is willing, there should be a possibility to meet. Currently, the wishes of the individual are completely irrelevant, and no research is even possible. That is unfair.

Arasi, just saw your post, thank you, you are just sweet, it's nothing else. Yes, I love Nick's post.. it touched my heart. And please do try to find what you wrote about adoption, I would love to read it.

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 04 Jun 2015, 05:42

Nick, I just re-read what I wrote in my first post about adoption, and I see that I made a big slip - I've edited it. I had said, "For adoptive children, their birth parents are their entire world." Did that confuse you? Oops, I meant to say, "For adoptive children, their parents (meaning adoptive parents) are their entire world." It's now corrected. Sorry, didn't realize I'd mistyped. That wrong sentence would have made no sense at all!

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 04 Jun 2015, 08:25

Congratulations Sanjay for presenting your views clearly!

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 04 Jun 2015, 09:04

arasi wrote:Ramamantra,

I hope (from many of your posts I have read, so far) that if I had stayed in south India and you had known me, you would have shown me nothing but respect.

Too bad... see, what you've been reduced to, huh, blowing your own trumpet.

Ppl seem to have taken off in all kinds of direction and never come to the core point, which in itself is not surprising.
Anyways, Congrats to Suresh for helicopter parenting, promotions included!

vsuresh · Post by **vsuresh** » 04 Jun 2015, 09:45

Middleton, WI is a highly white-dominated city and my son is probably one of two Indians among 20 fifth grade classes. It has been a struggle to keep his interest alive in the midst of the many distractions in school, and I was jubilant when he wrote this essay on Carnatic Music. It's my mistake for having gotten carried away. I'm quite aghast at the comparisons, and the pejorative statements from some of you, and grateful for the encouragement from others.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 04 Jun 2015, 09:46

Wow...storm in a tea cup.

Some posts deserve to be taken simply at face value and we should move on. The OP is of a 11 year old thinking cogently and constructive about things Carnatic. The justifiably proud and enthusiastic parent shares it in rasikas.org. Chill out folks, be a little more gracious instead of questioning the the minutiae of motivations. Everything here is positive and constructive...the child, the parent, etc...

In the process, as a side bar, we learned some inspiring details about Ranganayaki and Nick. More power and best wishes to all.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 04 Jun 2015, 09:48

vsuresh,
I wish i could have warned you about the trolls in rasikas.org...a lesson well learnt I am sure. In any case, best wishes to your little ones...may the fun and joy be with them!

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 04 Jun 2015, 10:23

Congrats also to other trolls who support this propaganda !

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 04 Jun 2015, 10:27

VSuresh,
I am really sorry.. I've emailed you. There is no excuse for your experience.

Sanjay, please take to heart all the kind and encouraging words you read here. And if anyone doesn't believe you wrote what you did, take that as a compliment - what you have written is that surprisingly good!

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 04 Jun 2015, 12:05

RSachi Sir,

Your suggestions-leaving this thread and end to gyan bhaaji is accepted. I have decided to end postings in all the threads and gyaan bhaji, with exception to 'AMS EASY METHODS LEC-DEMO-CHENNAI' thread for few more days.

munirao2001

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 04 Jun 2015, 12:20

The only way this thread can now be salvaged is by Sanjay's coming online and posting something on his own.. . Even a snippet of a video or audio or photo or anything from the young boy will be refreshing indeed!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 04 Jun 2015, 14:04

vsuresh wrote:Middleton, WI is a highly white-dominated city and my son is probably one of two Indians among 20 fifth grade classes. It has been a struggle to keep his interest alive in the midst of the many distractions in school, and I was jubilant when he wrote this essay on Carnatic Music. It's my mistake for having gotten carried away. I'm quite aghast at the comparisons, and the pejorative statements from some of you, and grateful for the encouragement from others.

vsuresh, welcome to rasikas.org!

I have been confused by this thread. All would have been clear if it had begun with a statement that your son had written the above and you were posting it, or if he had posted under his own name, joining in his own right. He can do that: we don't have an age bar!

I'm sure you are aware that the internet can be a rough and tough place. There are some very unpleasant people in the world, and the internet is part of the world. rasikas.org is mostly a friendly and welcoming place, but it is part of the world, and yes, there are unpleasant people here too.

You should also be aware that there are those that take shameless promotion of their offspring to an extreme. I'm sure that you know very well about such parents, on and off line. As a new member, maybe a little of that suspicion got turned on you. Perhaps it should not have been.

Hoping that both you and your son stay, and enjoy the forum.

Ranganayaki, thank you for the opportunity to discuss and share about something that is close to both our hearts.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 04 Jun 2015, 23:16

Vsuresh (id)
Post #1 appears as the son posting .
Post #7 appears the father or mother posting.
I am lost where the id VSuresh is used and it is difficult to disambiguate to know if the son or father/mother is posting . It would make sense for each of you to have your own id or else atleast have a mandatory signature at the end saying who has posted it. I also had the same point of view that Rsachi/Varsha had. Best wishes to 11 year old kid to make continued progress in CM.

Ranganayaki and NickH,
Inspiring that too coming up with your own experiences . I wish your two posts are put in a forum or better yet written in a magazine where more people talk about adoption. You both have very big hearts.

Personally I felt there is no one trolling here.

vsuresh · Post by **vsuresh** » 05 Jun 2015, 01:02

Rsachi wrote:The only way this thread can now be salvaged is by Sanjay's coming online and posting something on his own.. . Even a snippet of a video or audio or photo or anything from the young boy will be refreshing indeed!

Rsachi: Here is a link to Sanjay playing Violin in the alapana competition (Cleveland) a few months ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izneJduU0tU

The whole experience is what inspired him to write this article in the first place!

vsuresh · Post by **vsuresh** » 05 Jun 2015, 01:04

Nick H wrote:
vsuresh wrote:Middleton, WI is a highly white-dominated city and my son is probably one of two Indians among 20 fifth grade classes. It has been a struggle to keep his interest alive in the midst of the many distractions in school, and I was jubilant when he wrote this essay on Carnatic Music. It's my mistake for having gotten carried away. I'm quite aghast at the comparisons, and the pejorative statements from some of you, and grateful for the encouragement from others.

vsuresh, welcome to rasikas.org!

I have been confused by this thread. All would have been clear if it had begun with a statement that your son had written the above and you were posting it, or if he had posted under his own name, joining in his own right. He can do that: we don't have an age bar!

I'm sure you are aware that the internet can be a rough and tough place. There are some very unpleasant people in the world, and the internet is part of the world. rasikas.org is mostly a friendly and welcoming place, but it is part of the world, and yes, there are unpleasant people here too.

You should also be aware that there are those that take shameless promotion of their offspring to an extreme. I'm sure that you know very well about such parents, on and off line. As a new member, maybe a little of that suspicion got turned on you. Perhaps it should not have been.

Hoping that both you and your son stay, and enjoy the forum.

Thanks to you and several other members for your encouraging words. Much appreciated!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Jun 2015, 01:07

Rajesh,
You are right. There are two threads here which also have things to do with each other

in that they are child-centered. Yet, the simple eagerness of a child is mixed up in the thread with the nonsense of our paying no attention at all to a child. That too, in the case of one who wanted to share his happiness with those whom he thinks also love the music he loves. I bet he or his parents would not have done this/encouraged him to do this, had they an inkling about what was to come

We have had several parents promoting their children here. Children wrote too--remember mridangam kid (stiil writes) when he was younger and made us all happy by his fervor?

Some parents who promoted their kids year after year had no problems. Rohan's father alone needn't come to mind now. When we ask so many questions of a child, it doesn't seem fair to me. We ourselves barely ask each other about our lives in public like this because we are a friendly forum (ha!).

We can leave the child alone before we sound like the police or the immigration officials--prove this, prove that (didn't you/your parents know that a child can join Rasikas too?)...

Well, Sanjay has had a good lesson in knowing that it is a tough world we grow up in. If what he says (his love for CM) is deeply rooted in him, he will continue doing what he is doing, and that too with a chuckle about human nature and its frailties. And for now, he can move on to reading the next exciting children's story which is filled with intriguing characters and and also practice his music, of course...

By the way, children are also somewhat used to being rebuffed at times when they eagerly look forward to sharing something with another child. Adults too, of course...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 05 Jun 2015, 01:22

Yes, mridangam-kid crossed my mind. He came here as a youngster, but is now not so young, and the last posts of his, that I saw, revealed that he had acquired deep interest and knowledge in carnatic music.