Interview with Sanjay sir in the Hindu

sanjaysubfan · Post by **sanjaysubfan** » 29 May 2015, 07:39

Here is a link to an interview with Sanjay sir in today's Hindu. Candid and revealing.

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... 255289.ece

My favourite line from the interview - Says Sanjay, “Deserved criticism makes me work harder. Much of the open criticism I received in my earlier days, was valid. Unjustified comments bother me, but I don’t believe in defending my perspective in public. I believe in performing and allowing others to make a judgment. If the judgment is erroneous, so be it.”

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 29 May 2015, 10:52

As good as his music. A Dravid of CM.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 29 May 2015, 11:32

I appreciate Vid.SS and also Lakshmi Anand for the excellent interview. Vid.SS answers are always come from his deep understanding and clarity. I am keenly looking forward to the next part of the interview. Why The Hindu has not planned artist 'Connect' they had started publishing with VId.SS ? To my knowledge it started with Vidu.S.Sowmya and Vid.Vijay Siva.

munirao2001

sanjaysubfan · Post by **sanjaysubfan** » 05 Jun 2015, 05:52

Here is a link to the second part.

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... 282086.ece

My favourite quote "Just as stock market gurus tell us not to get sentimental about particular stocks, we should have the courage to move away from singing what does not click."

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 05 Jun 2015, 08:36

Says Sri Nagai Muralidharan, "“He is an artist of such high caliber. I cannot think of anyone else with his work ethic, perfectionism and desire to keep learning. His spontaneity is admirable.” That is quintessential Sanjay, the reason he is dear to the hearts of many rasikas.

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 05 Jun 2015, 09:42

I particularly admire his long drawn elaboration of upper register notes in the nadaswaram bani. While listening to his Kambhoji, the elaboration on upper sa and ga were mindboggling.

Nadasawara bani is very difficult to inculcate. Pinnacle of musical accomplishment (singing) is, I think, following that, what with the energy, breath and subtle phrase variations the bani requires.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 06 Jun 2015, 10:48

I have been dismissed completely – so many times.

sanjaysubfan · Post by **sanjaysubfan** » 12 Jun 2015, 08:02

Third Part and more to come

Quick fix solutions such as memorising kalpanaswara patterns or alapana sequences can only provide short term benefits, but ultimately, if one wishes to be a professional musician, certain processes and principles do not change and one has to work in the conventional way – there are no short cuts.

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... 305419.ece

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 12 Jun 2015, 08:19

This puts at rest to me any suggestion that the format is a hindrance to aesthetics and creativity:
"Discussing concert structure, he explains how the standard format itself - roughly speaking, a varnam, a few songs some with alapana and/ or swaras, a main item, RTP, thukkadas – allows for boom and burst in energy levels. “We do not sing at peak energy constantly. You can sing some songs in a slow or medium tempo; some can be rendered exactly as taught providing a breather.”

Sanjay is satisfied with the present format which “allows artists enough scope to explore and also work around it in ways that are aesthetically satisfying to the performer. If the audience stops coming to my concerts, I might rethink it, perhaps.”

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 13 Jun 2015, 21:27

kvchellappa wrote:This puts at rest to me any suggestion that the format is a hindrance to aesthetics and creativity:

Sanjay is satisfied with the present format which “allows artists enough scope to explore and also work around it in ways that are aesthetically satisfying to the performer. If the audience stops coming to my concerts, I might rethink it, perhaps.”

How does this put to rest this question? This is Sanjay's point of view, just as TMK's is his point of view, just as the format itself was an innovative point of view that was introduced. Sanjay is satisfied with it because he is able to do great things within that structure. TMK is probably, from deep within, a little harder to contain within any format, and that being his personality, he cannot be happy in that box, which he finds limiting. There has always been an evolution in art, schools have come and gone and each had its own special technique and beauty. What on earth is the problem if in music one artist feels too confined in a format? After all it is just a format, and not the art itself! Music has many ways to be and we need to give the artists the freedom to play, make mistakes, fall, dust themselves off, and reinvent themselves if they need to.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Jun 2015, 23:47

Sanjay has been lucid and candid in his sharing his musical journey with us. There weren't any ambiguous statements in what he has said so far. As straight forward as a seasoned mountaineer recounts his story of how he slowly reached the heights, Sanjay gives us his account (I didn't say acme because Sanjay still has to climb more to reach that, and that's what makes him keep working at it, it's clear).

Not that AriakuDi is god, but darn it, the formula has worked so far. Nearly a century of CM where more or less all musicians have followed his formula--have they done nothing to enrich it? MMI, GNB and all the rest can be dismissed? That's it?

The formula has offered enough room for creativity and the space for flights of individuality over the century, and Sanjay is an example for it in modern times and that's why I respect his music and am glad that he is, reluctant though he has been so far in giving interviews, is sharing his journey with us. His counseling young musicians about how to approach the music they want to master is also practical and valuable.

Ranganayaki,
I am sorry that I disagree with you on the Ari format. It's my personal view, not at all something which is colored by custom or my age.

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 14 Jun 2015, 02:53

arasi wrote: Ranganayaki,
I am sorry that I disagree with you on the Ari format. It's my personal view, not at all something which is colored by custom or my age.

Why be sorry, Arasi? If we are two separate people we are bound to disagree on SOMETHING! As I told you before, I thought you were in your twenties, before I came to know you better and now the awareness of your age is so strong that I've lost that 20s feel from you, but I would never even think of attributing any disagreement simply to your age. I'm not that foolish, I hope. You don't need to defend your views in that way - you are read and listened to for yourself, I'm sure I can speak for others in saying that.

But the actual problem I see in what you wrote is the fact that there doesn't seem to be any disagreement at all. I agree a hundred percent with what you say.

- about Sanjay with no reservation..
- about the format with what you say, except that I would add a little: if someone wants to present something different, we can give it an ear with an open mind. All the greats have contributed to it and we have all enjoyed it. The format continues to be wonderful. There is no disagreement there.

I only said that TMK may find the format too constraining and as he is deeply respectful of the music itself and we are talking only about a format, we don't need to be too attached to it and stifle his creativity. It works great for Sanjay, but it seems that it doesn't work for TMK. He is unhappy in it, so let him find his way out of it!

New movements in art have been born each and every century. Older movements continue to be loved and revered. Why would that not work in CM?

You seem to think that I said something negative about Sanjay and you seem to be defending him.. I only pointed to KVChellappa that Sanjay's opinion is his because of his personality, and tmk sees it differently because of his personality. May be Sanjay is more positive than TMK.. But they are who they are and they are both being honest. Neither is arrogant. It's ok to disagree with the format, just as it is ok to disagree with each other. That's the richness of life and imposing a single format is like putting something free into a straitjacket.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 14 Jun 2015, 04:37

Ranganayaki,
When in my twenty odd years of existence

(gosh, even to be minus those twenty years!) I have met insensitive people, some with syrupy words to boot

I try to shrug out of the resulting gloom and hurt, and try to focus on the fine human beings I've met and have had the fortune to associate with all along my long life.

Sensitivity in the positive sense of the word--is being aware, fine-tuned, responsive, giving...
For some of us, Rasikas.org is like a family. In this family too, I have come to appreciate some such men and women with sensitivity. They mean a lot to me and you are one of them. It will be a better world if your kind inhabit the world in large numbers.

Yes, may be I misread you about the Ari format, and yes, I am partial to Sanjay's music simply because it has almost all the ingredients I am looking for in music. As I listen to him (and I have listened to him a lot) and I find what I am looking for in a concert (a matter of taste?), my respect for him grows. He's hard working which I am not.

He opened doors for me about rAgAs I barely knew--not simply by introducing them but by educating me about the beauty of them. More than that, in opening up new vistas in the rAgAs I knew well.

I have even reached a point where I feel very happy to hear bhairavi (some know how indifferent I was to the rAgA). In his Ramanavami concert in spring, he has sung a bhairavi--a solid one, but it's one of a kind. The rAgA is beautiful, Varadu 'pakkala kUrchoni (sitting, playing on the side), and a favored tamizh song, yArO, ivar yArO. Have heard that from him several times, all very good, with detailed neravals. This one goes even further. The newness in it is something of a surprise.

If an ace runner finds his sneakers constricting and opts to run barefoot, fine, let him feel free, but the question is how much better, and for how long can he run. A poor example, perhaps, but you know what I mean by that (eschewing the Ari structure).

Yes, I have faith in Sanjay's music. His kind of music is very much my cup of tea. So, if you thought I was being defensive of Sanjay, may be I was

The last thing I want to do though is to compare him with anyone else or the other way round. I like CM a lot and have many favorites, and I like to keep listening to all of them

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 14 Jun 2015, 05:34

I agree that TMK's creativity could be bursting through the format. Only, in my limited knowledge of CM, I have not heard it explained in theory how the format is constraining development of the art; I have not seen in what TMK does a ray of explanation (his singing has been excellent and he could as well have sung so beautifully in any order for that matter); I have seen other artists perform equally brilliantly within the format. Sanjay's articulating it makes me feel that my understanding is not totally mistaken. The stalwarts including the contemporaries of ARI have followed it implicitly and there are those who pine that they were the golden days. Also, it seems ARI did not introduce something as a bolt from the blue, but codified an emerging need and trend. That is like extracting grammar from usage. As with language, so with art, things will change but an organic change is gradual and infinitesimal. It does not happen by an ordinance or abolition.

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 14 Jun 2015, 05:50

A nice article about Ariyakudi and the format from Sruti Magazine:

http://srutimag.blogspot.com/2015/06/th ... iples.html

My questions:

1. What was the carnatic scene like before Ariyakudi's transformation wrt location, audience, concert content?

2. What factors are likely to have inspired him to bring about a change?

3. Were these factors mainly musical in thrust, or were they brought about due to changing social circumstances?

4. Was there a wide outcry against this new format? Why not? Why was it widely accepted?

5. Was it considered pragmatic to adopt the new format, or was it a quasi-religious necessity, making any other point of view unholy, rebellious or unethical?

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 14 Jun 2015, 06:01

Arasi, thank you for your kind words. More than anything else, I value sensitivity and I do try to cultivate it in me, and that is the yardstick by which I judge my words and actions and know whether I am ok, or whether I need to apologize or change my thoughts. Thank you so much for recognizing it in me, I feel encouraged - and more that I can't share here.

Like you, I too love some personalities here.. I like their positivity, their spirit of service with which they make their posts, their ability to manage and bring perspective to discussions, their amazing knowledgeability, musical sensitivity and general collegiality.. of course many people are represented in these descriptions

.. They uplift me, and make me feel good even when they are not talking to me. I feel the same way about them as the way you spoke to me.. Yes rasikas.org is like a family in my mind too. I feel bad when anyone decides to quit.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 14 Jun 2015, 09:01

Ranganayaki,

Historians at Rasikas are going to answer your questions, I'm hoping.

If personal recollections mean anything, I do not remember grown ups around me putting ARI down at all.
He was admired for his performances, if anything. It didn't at that time seem like he was revolutionizing anything, I suppose. Otherwise, I'm sure I would have heard some negative statements around me about him.

On the other hand, MMI was discussed: how well he sings! what a voice! and such. "Madurai Mani pATTu is like mAgANik kizhangu URugAi!" someone said and I thought that was a strange statement. I asked why. "Because either people love his music or don't like it at all!". Still puzzling. I liked MMI's singing a lot, one of the vidvAns who made it all worthwhile for me to be sitting in a sabha without wanting to wander away. Still, it did not make much sense because I wasn't keen on mAgANi! He was criticized for all the 'Uys' and 'Ays' and 'taralallA's, though they did not miss his concerts!

So, your fourth question can find an answer in Chellappa's post #14 from "Also it seems ARI did not introduce something as a bolt from the blue but codified an emerging need" to the very end of the post...

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 14 Jun 2015, 10:29

First 3 questions were answered in Sruti article, were they not?
It is not as though anyone is constrained all the time by the concert format. There are RTP only concerts. Even here, I heard the singer sing one or two pieces as warm up perhaps. In one concert in Asthika samajam, Santhanam gave only songs but for alapana of Mohanam and evarura. That was his feel of the pulse of the audience and I think he was right. Many do like that keeping the time or audience in mind. SSI never sang varnam. Sanjay makes it a point, and he makes a point with that. He sings something not heard often or in a refreshingly new way. Many skip varnam. How to sing and what to sing is the musician's right. The problem is disparaging the format and the reasons given given. (TMK said that it is idiotic to open a concert with varnam. That sort of intemperance is not musical, creative, aesthetic or innovative).
Even if ARI format were resisted and adopted by herd mentality, what will matter now is an explanation as to its unsuitability if that topic is brought to the table.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 14 Jun 2015, 13:55

Madam Ranganayki,
You may find this interesting regarding Kutcheri format pre ARI and Post ARI discussed by Sri Allepey Venkatesan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot8UQB51CmM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7J6HAfZWyw

kunthalavarali · Post by **kunthalavarali** » 15 Jun 2015, 05:54

kvchellappa wrote "SSI never sang varnam." Not quite true. Please listen to these few gems: https://www.sendspace.com/file/qzay68 by the great vocalist.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 15 Jun 2015, 11:25

Thanks. Good I made the comment. I never heard this before. However, the normal pattern of SSI has been to begin with a song in MMG, Begada, etc.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 15 Jun 2015, 22:20

One of the problems in dealing with musicians who performed in the GOLDEN AGE ('49-'EARLY 60'S) is their EARLIER CONCERTS WERE NOT RECORDED OR AVAILABLE OR RESTRICTIONS ON SHARING THEM OR LACK OF EQUIPMENT OR OTHER REASONS & this has resulted in WRONG or SEMI-IGNORANT COMMENTS
by many just repeating the PREJUDICED comments of MANY MUSICIANS THEMSELVES. I have spent close to 60 years trying to track down the AVAILABLE recordings+ INTERVIEWING the artists themselves; I can state that for example to quote MMI "If you cannot do trikalam+ Nalukalai Savukkam" etc you will not get a SINGLE CONCERT" & M.S used to sing incredibly complicated pallavis. The equivalent PR TYPE musicians who were not very successful with the public STARTED the FALSE STUFF which is currently being propagated by today's con artists who are SAVVY to exploit the lack of knowledge of GENUINELEY COMPETENT LISTENERS. Actually at least the part about CM in N.A. in a very famous book which was discussed in this forum has LOTS OF ERRORS& WRONG STATEMENTS. ....I urge the savvy listeners of today to EXAMINE DEEPLY what is being said under the guise of being innovative, clever, original etc......VKV

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 15 Jun 2015, 23:04

kvchellappa wrote:First 3 questions were answered in Sruti article, were they not?
It is not as though anyone is constrained all the time by the concert format. There are RTP only concerts. Even here, I heard the singer sing one or two pieces as warm up perhaps. In one concert in Asthika samajam, Santhanam gave only songs but for alapana of Mohanam and evarura. That was his feel of the pulse of the audience and I think he was right. Many do like that keeping the time or audience in mind. SSI never sang varnam. Sanjay makes it a point, and he makes a point with that. He sings something not heard often or in a refreshingly new way. Many skip varnam. How to sing and what to sing is the musician's right. The problem is disparaging the format and the reasons given given. (TMK said that it is idiotic to open a concert with varnam. That sort of intemperance is not musical, creative, aesthetic or innovative).
Even if ARI format were resisted and adopted by herd mentality, what will matter now is an explanation as to its unsuitability if that topic is brought to the table.

KVC, the ideas were discussed in the article. But I wanted US to answer them after reading the article. Because the question that TMK has caused to arise is whether the Ariyakudi format is the only way perform a concert. It has become a tradition, certainly, for the strength of its hold. But when people who want to make a change would be afraid to, and when performers who do make a change are actually being fearless and aware of courting a backlash, it seems like a yoke that a majority willingly accepts and imposes on others. Now is this fair? Is it just possible that something new can be created alongside this format that can allow new things to grow without destroying it? We will never know if we don't have the freedom Ariyakudi had.

If just asking the question that I have mentioned above causes you and other traditionalists to bristle in anger, then that is a sure sign that it is not a state of open-mindedness.

To me nothing is more relevant than this:
http://allpoetry.com/Where-The-Mind-Is-Without-Fear

I would love your take on my qu. no. 4.

kvchellappa wrote:It is not as though anyone is constrained all the time by the concert format.

That is true, it certainly is not. We talked about Sanjay and almost everyone else who still feel happy to have this format and who play with it and give us undeniable enjoyment, great concerts. And you do mention these specialty concerts. But IF there is someone who is unhappy in this format for their own reasons, do you (we, the rasika community) allow them to try something new or do you try to beat their individuality down?

kvchellappa wrote: The problem is disparaging the format and the reasons given given. (TMK said that it is idiotic to open a concert with varnam. That sort of intemperance is not musical, creative, aesthetic or innovative).

Yes, if that were true, that would be indefensible. If you say that he said it, then because it causes such a serious backlash against him, you should be able to quote it. Please provide a link or a quote from him which cannot be disputed.

TMK repeats himself in various forums and platforms. I distinctly remember hearing him talk about varnams in first position once in a video, but I have no idea how to find it. But i can tell you the gist of what he said and it is NOT what you claim he said. Yes, he did seem to think it is ridiculous. But read on.

He said that he did not think there was any particular reason to sing varnam only at the beginning of a concert and then be done with it, it is actually a nice form, which can come in even later. He said that the popular reasoning that it helps warm the voice up was ridiculous (it could be the actual word he used, but that's what he meant and I am not quoting) and he added that if your voice needs warming up, then warm up at home not in a concert. In fact, he was demanding greater respect for the concert platform. He spoke my mind exactly and I agree with him completely on the beauty of varnams and the position they may occupy in a concert. I have heard him sing a varnam in fourth position (NJ concert 3 years ago) and it took me by surprise, and till he reached the muktayee swarams, I didn't realize it was a varnam. That made it so very interesting, and woke me from that lulled down feeling of predictability.

Yesterday, I heard a next-gen concert where the young lady sang a Ganesha kriti to end the concert. So what? Does Ganesha have no role in our lives except at the beginning of something?

TMK does not speak disrespectfully of the platform. In fact, he is very careful, and he speaks respectfully of everything, using parliamentary language, even of things he disapproves of. We owe him that too, but I am apalled at the language and attitude of his naysayers, which is why I speak up for him. If you say that he does the opposite, you owe it to him and to yourself to provide a quote.

I do notice that he speaks with great clarity (about Carnatic Music, I am not concerned with his views on politics), measuring his words, yet even elderly people who should know better than to think like children who jump to conclusions understand the exact opposite of what he says. The childishness heaped on him is appalling.

So, KVC, is the problem really his disrespect of the format? If you still think so, prove it.

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 15 Jun 2015, 23:35

cacm wrote:One of the problems in dealing with musicians who performed in the GOLDEN AGE ('49-'EARLY 60'S) is their EARLIER CONCERTS WERE NOT RECORDED OR AVAILABLE OR RESTRICTIONS ON SHARING THEM OR LACK OF EQUIPMENT OR OTHER REASONS & this has resulted in WRONG or SEMI-IGNORANT COMMENTS
by many just repeating the PREJUDICED comments of MANY MUSICIANS THEMSELVES.

*****************
I have spent close to 60 years trying to track down the AVAILABLE recordings+ INTERVIEWING the artists themselves; I can state that for example to quote MMI "If you cannot do trikalam+ Nalukalai Savukkam" etc you will not get a SINGLE CONCERT" & M.S used to sing incredibly complicated pallavis.

The equivalent PR TYPE musicians who were not very successful with the public STARTED the FALSE STUFF which is currently being propagated by today's con artists who are SAVVY to exploit the lack of knowledge of GENUINELEY COMPETENT LISTENERS. Actually at least the part about CM in N.A. in a very famous book which was discussed in this forum has LOTS OF ERRORS& WRONG STATEMENTS. ....I urge the savvy listeners of today to EXAMINE DEEPLY what is being said under the guise of being innovative, clever, original etc......VKV

Dear CACM,

In the interest of further discussion I feel obliged to give you my opinion.

It is of absolutely no interest to make vague accusatory statements where it is completely unclear what the argument is, and which side of which problem you stand on. Any side of any argument can be prejudiced and any musician can be prejudiced.. What exactly are you talking about and who? When you make such comments where people are honestly and clearly expressing their opinions and exposing ourselves, you owe it to all of us to openly or at the very least clearly say what you are trying to say so that we can actually discuss it.

I have a lot of questions for you:

What is the connection between the second paragraph I have extracted and the third?

Who are these "equivalent PR type musicians"? What is this equivalence?
Who are these "con artists"?
Who are these "genuinely competent listeners" whose "lack of knowledge" is being exploited?!!
What is this "very famous book which was discussed in this forum (and) has LOTS OF ERRORS& WRONG STATEMENTS?"
What exactly is this stuff you so earnestly WANT us to examine deeply? How can we do that if we have no idea what you are talking about?

Did you really interview a lot of musicians as opposed to shooting the breeze? If so would you have transcripts to share?

A discussion is not possible without specifics. The only answer I can guess at is because of the current context of your post being the format and TMK.. I would guess that this book is "A Southern Music", but I will not assume that unless you confirm it. (RSachi taught me that, remember

)

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 16 Jun 2015, 00:59

Ranganayaki wrote:
Dear CACM,

In the interest of further discussion I feel obliged to give you my opinion.

It is of absolutely no interest to make vague accusatory statements where it is completely unclear what the argument is, and which side of which problem you stand on. Any side of any argument can be prejudiced and any musician can be prejudiced.. What exactly are you talking about and who? When you make such comments where people are honestly and clearly expressing their opinions and exposing ourselves, you owe it to all of us to openly or at the very least clearly say what you are trying to say so that we can actually discuss it......

I AM WRITING IN CAPITALS TO DELIENATE WHAT I AM WRITING. I HAVE RESPECT FOR EVERY ONE HERE & I AM NOT ANGRY EITHER:

I DO NOT WISH TO WASTE MY TIME DISCUSSING THE VARIOUS ARGUMENTS QUOTING NUMBERS 1,2, 3 ETC AS I FEEL THEY ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME& EFFORT. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? IT IS NOT CLEAR TO ME IF IT IS JUST ONE PROBLEM! AS I AM UNABLE TO TAKE "SIDES" ON MOST I WRITE LIKE THIS. I DO NOT WISH TO DIGNIFY THE VARIOUS NUMBERS AS THO' THEY ARE GOD GIVEN DESCENDING FROM HEAVEN

I have a lot of questions for you:

What is the connection between the second paragraph I have extracted and the third?

....SECOND PARA HAD TO DO WITH FIRST PARA. THIRD PARA IS A REFLECTION ON MY PART TO THE 1,2,3 ETC YOU ARE REFERRING TO.

Who are these "equivalent PR type musicians"? What is this equivalence?

THE EQUIVALENCE HAS TO DO WITH CERTAIN MUSICIANS WHO ARE CLAIMING TO HAVE ALL THE INSIGHTS BUT IN REALITY ARE POPULAR BUT DON'T HAVE A SENSE OF THE HISTORY OF CM & ITS HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT. THIS GENRE HAS ALWAYS EXISTED & TYPICALLY CONSISTS OF SOME WHO WERE/ARE UNABLE TO ACCEPT THINGS OR GET CRITICAL ACCLAIM OF "EXPERTS"

Who are these "con artists"? ...

I CAN DEFINITELY SAY SANJAY IS NOT ONE OF THEM. HE IS ONE OF THE COMPETENT CREATIVE ARTISTS WHO HAS ADVANCED "THE STATE OF THE ART" C.M. WITH HIS SUPERB KNOWLEDGE AS WELL ABILITY TO BE CREATIVE WITHIN THE GRAMMAR OF MUSIC & ITS HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT WITHOUT INSULTING THE GREATS OF THE PAST. I AM WRITING THIS BECAUSE THE TITLE SAYS INTERVIEW WITH SANJAY.

Who are these "genuinely competent listeners" whose "lack of knowledge" is being exploited?!!

I HAVE TO SAY THE VERY INTELLIGENT& KNOWLDEABLE YOUNGER LISTENERS OF TODAY.

What is this "very famous book which was discussed in this forum (and) has LOTS OF ERRORS& WRONG STATEMENTS?"

THE BOOK THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN GREAT DETAIL IN THIS FORUM WRITTEN BY TMK. I HAVE BEEN REQUESTED BY MANY IN N.A. TO WRITE A REBUTTAL & POINT OUT THE ERRORS. INSTEAD I STARTED A SECTION ON HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT OF C.M. IN N.A. IN THE HOPE EVERYONE KNOWLEDGEABLE WILL CONTRIBUTE.

What exactly is this stuff you so earnestly WANT us to examine deeply?

I WANT EVERY ONE TO GET EDUCATED (INCLUDING ME) ON THE HISTORICAL & ARTISTIC DEVELOPMENT OF C.M.IN THE PERIOD 1945-70.

How can we do that if we have no idea what you are talking about?......

I AM NOT A REFORMER OR MESSIAH. JUST DO NOT WANT FALSEHOODS BEING PROPOGATED. DONT ASK ME TO LIST THEM. DONT HAVE ENERGY OR TIME. ONLY WHEN GROSS MIS STATEMENTS ARE MADE I RESPOND. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE I AM WRONG ALSO.

Did you really interview a lot of musicians as opposed to shooting the breeze? If so would you have transcripts to share?

I GREW UP IN MADRAS (NOW CALLED CHENNAI) & ALONG WITH A FEW OF MY CLASSMATES FROM M.C.C. SPENT ALL OF OUR SPARE TIME ATTENDING ALMOST ALL THE CONCERTS AS WELL AS VISITING& DISCUSSING MUSIC FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF LEARNING THE GREATNESS OF ALMOST EVERY MUSICIAN IN THE TIME PERIOD 1949-59( IN CHENNAI-LEFT FOR USA IN 59 WHERE I HAVE BEEN LIVING). AFTER 59 I VISITED MADRAS OFTEN & KEPT UP WITH MANY MUSICIANS TILL 1975. USED TO ARRANGE TOURS OF C.M. MUSICIANS FROM 1960 IN N.A.BEEN FOUNDER, PEON TO PRESIDENT OF ALMOST EVERY INDIAN CULTURAL ORGANISATION IN N.A. SINCE 1959.HAVE LEARNT VOCAL, FLUTE & MRIDANGAM FOR OVER 10 YEARS.
UNFORTUNATELY DID NOT RECORD THE CONVERSATIONS OR TRANSCRIPTS. WAS NOT SMART ENOUGH & DID NOT HAVE THE MEANS EITHER.ALL MY CONVERSATIONS WERE IN THEIR HOMES DURING ALMOST WEEKLY VISITS BEFORE & AFTER CONCERTS. IN THE CASE OF MMI IT WAS AT LEAST TWICE A WEEK ETC. IN ANY CASE I DO NOT THINK QUESTIONING ANY ONE'S STATEMENTS UNDER OATH IS THE FORMAT HERE WHERE PEOPLE ARE ANONYMOUS & WE DONT EVEN

KNOW THEIR NAMES. MY NAME IS V K VISWANATHAN & KNOWN TO MANY HERE....

A discussion is not possible without specifics. The only answer I can guess at is because of the current context of your post being the format and TMK.. I would guess that this book is "A Southern Music", but I will not assume that unless you confirm it.RSachi taught me that, remember )

YES.

VKV

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 16 Jun 2015, 03:19

My short reply is that TMK did use one of the words 'stupid', 'foolish' or 'idiotic'. I have read it and do not want to spend time tracing it. He said in a TV panel discussion, '(The previos generation) they were only eating and sleeping.' I am nobody to stop new formats coming in. I stick to my two points, one, that I have not heard it explained why the ARI format stunts creativity, two, TMK has not offered any format and he himself says that he is not doing it.
If one can come warming up the voice at home, why does he not get the Tambura sruti aligned before the scheduled start of the concert? He is unpunctual and spends a lot of time in fighting with the mike, etc. and his language and manners always discourteous on the stage. He said in one concert exasperated by recording, 'Do not come to my concert.' Yes, recording was wrong, but his reaction not all that great. I have followed him a great deal, and even corresponded with him. After a point, he signs off, 'You will not understand' several times. He is a genius, and now a social activist, does a lot for CM, but to achieve what he aims at, I feel, he has to be more polite.
As for me, I do not any longer enjoy his musical offering. Some individual pieces are great, but the total experience is disappointing as GRS wrote.

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 16 Jun 2015, 04:02

KVC,
The point is what those words "stupid" or "idiotic" are attributed to. Everything I have read or seen on videos appeals to me, and does not make me reject him as rude. But I have not seen every video or read every quote. If it is true that he is rude in speaking of the older tradition, I would not defend that.

That said I agree with things you say. Yes he does not offer a format and that is not what he is trying to do. Nor is he trying to shuffle items, he's said that. I think it would be idiotic to just take a format and shuffle, what would be the point of that? And he's said exactly that too. He is just not offering a any format, and that to me seems to be in keeping with my understanding and doesn't bother me.

Yes.. I agree that there is a lot of rudeness associated with his concerts. I mentioned it in my write-up about his concert. But that rudeness came from one of the organizers, the lady who spoke on his behalf. He himself was not rude, in fact he was very polite in addressing the audience. I did mention that he stared at someone who was leaving but I mentioned it because he was causing the disruption by himself, the opposite of what he wanted. We were all enthralled by the music and suddenly I felt a need to summon some extra energy to look elsewhere at whatever was drawing his attention. I agree that there is no need to shame audience members who need to leave. Hubris on his part, I suppose. But that was quite a while ago, may be he will change over time.

I saw a video in which he asked someone to please stop recording. It seemed to bother him, and he said it firmly, yes, but politely. He was certainly not rude.

I just haven't found him rude. I have seen others high handed on his behalf..

CACM says TMK is ignorant of history, and may be he would think that his defenders are ignorant of history. I must admit I am ignorant of a lot in CM history. But I consider his point of view and I feel that no matter how much I knew about the history, my point of view would remain.. not because I am stubborn and won't change my mind, but because denying artists the freedom to create change is something I don't like at all, and all the talk about him decrying the older paddhati is inaccurate, to the best of my knowledge.

I must say I am rather dismayed to be slowly emerging as an apparent TMK defender, which is not my intention.. And he doesn't need defending, thankfully. I am just sharing my faith in the freedom artists have/need to create change if they want to. That is important in my mind.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Jun 2015, 04:07

Chellappa,
I merely repeat what you said. That will suffice: as for me, I do not any longer enjoy his musical offering. Some individual pieces are great, but the total experience isdisappointing as GRS (Sastrigal) wrote.

I am tired too, discussing TMK ad infinitum. For some reason he pops up in several threads. If he ever has an inkling as to how we fill the threads talking about him, and happens to read them all, I bet he will be tired too

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 16 Jun 2015, 04:16

arasi wrote:
I am tired too, discussing TMK ad infinitum. For some reason he pops up in several threads. If he ever has an inkling as to how we fill the threads talking about him, and happens to read them all, I bet he will be tired too

Arasi, I agree.. I noticed what CACM said and I felt a little bad to have got into discussing TMK in a thread about Sanjay. I was reminded also about Sri Govindan's comment about how everybody jumps like a monkey from one topic to the next without discrimination of purpose within a thread. I agree also that it is tiring to read about TMK and I've been drawn into that in the last six months in a few threads.. As I said, he doesn't need defending, interestingly. I will do my best to stop myself in the future..

Edit: Just noticed that that Sanjay thread is this one! I'm quite turned around and don't know where I am!!

..

CACM, thank you for responding, it looks as though you went to a lot of trouble to make yourself understood.. I understand a little more but a lot of what you said still unclear to me, being completely uninvolved and uninterested in the politics of music, probably why I don't know much about the history.

Also I have absolutely no idea what one two three you say I am referring to which you mention disparagingly in several parts of your post. I only mentioned the three parts of your own post which I divided.

With this I will try to refrain from talking about TMK.. my position is about artistic freedom and general respect. I have little else to say.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Jun 2015, 04:38

Ranganayaki,
Our posts crossed. I read your post, but as I said there, I am tired out, thinking about Krishna and his doings.

I will say this about you, if I may--you are someone who values individual freedom a lot, and I respect you for that. You are sensitive to other people's feelings, and I admire you for that.

Youtube is faithful in transmitting the music that is made (but in fragments, and the interludes are not there most of the time for us to see).

ARI and other masters had the audience in focus--by which I mean to say--to please them was their prime motive. They knew that the listeners do not forgive them easily for their unprofessional ways on stage. Even the best among them were not excused for coming late, ordering the mic folks about, not putting their minds to the concert, hurrying to do a half-hearted job, being vocal about anything other than music

...and it's true to this day.

MMI was adored for being a model performer in not committing any one of the above offences

It's like an unruly child disrupting a class, running all over a restaurant, worse, doing that in a concert

**
Again, our posts crossed

As for VKV, if I were you, I would have used the word zeal rather than politics

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 16 Jun 2015, 07:23

Arasi, I am aware our posts crossed - I saw yours a second after I posted mine and know that you couldn't have seen mine.. If you notice, in my last paragraph, I lamented that I was emerging as a TMK defender and so on.. when I saw your post, it seemed very much in the vein of what I had already posted and I only agreed and added to what I'd said. I especially agree that tmk just slips into all threads. I just want to stop my part of it.

Regarding "zeal" I didn't mean VKV's zeal.. I meant the history of CM politics. That sentence was not about VKV. I did not understand some of the unsavoury characters or things he was talking about because I'm clueless about the stories. I only heard the music. It was actually a thing for me - I heard a little gossip about people being drunk on stage and I felt the music was all that mattered to me, not whether they drank or not. If I couldn't tell, it didn't matter to me. So the music was really all I heard..

I am not sure why you've referred to youtube.. Yes, music videos do not show interludes.. But I've referred to videos not of music, but of interviews.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Jun 2015, 07:54

Sorry Ranganayaki. I mentioned only the music with Youtube.

Interviews are a different thing, aren't they?
I had in mind the concerts themselves. Rasikas (include me there) have mentioned a number of incidents in recent years which have put us off. You may find the comments in a number of reviews--from different cities.

The other reason which does stay in the background: the way one of our members was humiliated, and we know how hurt he was. Well, it's all in the past, and time does heal old wounds, I suppose...

See, I'm forgetting that this thread is on Sanjay and am going on and on

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 16 Jun 2015, 08:09

Sorry to hear about this incident with one of our rasikas, Arasi.. I've been completely unaware of it.. Still I hope it's true that people do grow and learn and make amends at least by changing and smoothing rough edges. I hope that has happened.

I guess it takes a little time for discussions and thoughts to wind down.. so it's ok to take time to finish up..

we'll get to Sanjay!!

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 16 Jun 2015, 08:20

Until Friday then, when the next instalment of Sanjay interview is due.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Jun 2015, 08:30

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 16 Jun 2015, 08:41

Glad the cloying exchanges and mutual back-rubbing between the female usernames has come to an end

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 16 Jun 2015, 09:38

haha, yeah right.. you're just jealous

..

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 18 Jun 2015, 21:04

Here is the final part, hope we stay focused on sanjay only in this thread.

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... ertainment

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 18 Jun 2015, 21:21

To be carved in gold:
"I don’t take the audience for granted. I don’t believe I am doing them a favour. They are doing me a favour by allowing me to indulge in this art form full time."

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 18 Jun 2015, 23:02

SANJAY'S interview in four parts reveal an honest but talented, well grounded and great musician who fully understands his role in ADVANCING& PROPAGATING the culture and greatness of CM WITH A FULL APPRECIATION & UNDERSTANDING of not only the HISTORY but also the GREATS who preceded him. With ALL HIS TALENT he is the one musician today who has not shied away from interacting& absorbing WHATEVER is great while making HIS OWN CONTRIBUTIONS within the grammar of the music. With all his knowledge, ability as well as pride the fact he reached out to the great Nadaswara Vidwan SEMMBANNARKOIL VAIDYANATHAN like GNB& MMI reached out to TNR WILL ENABLE HIM TO REACH EVEN GREATER HEIGHTS.. It is truly reflected in the DEPTH OF HIS MUSIC as he is very knowledgeable& smart to start with. His respect for the AUDIENCE should be emulated by other musicians.
WE NEED AT LEAST A FEW MORE SANJAYS TO SALVAGE THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS......Fortunately there are enough capable musicians today who can counteract the gimmicks, rudeness, and cheap fakes that also exist.PL DONT ASK ME TO NAME THEM as discussing NEGATIVITY does not not do good to anyone. KNOWLEDGE IS THE ANSWER AS PROVEN BY SANJAY HERE.....VKV

devan · Post by **devan** » 19 Jun 2015, 00:32

sanjay interview has come at the apt time.it is clear rejoinder to "i donot care about the audience ' ' artist.hats off to sanjay.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 19 Jun 2015, 03:14

sanjay wrote: The Internet was burgeoning then, and the idea of creating a website exclusively for Carnatic music took root. The domain name was registered and Sangeetham.com born in 1999, possibly the first ever website devoted exclusively to Carnatic music. Well ahead of its times, it was managed by Sanjay and noted historian V. Sriram, until lack of a revenue model eventually shut it down in 2006.
.....
"I don’t take the audience for granted. I don’t believe I am doing them a favour. They are doing me a favour by allowing me to indulge in this art form full time."

He shut it down for the lack of revenue model. When was the revenue model there in first place ? Lies Lies Lies.

While I immensely admire sanjay as a musician and his forward looking musical ideas,this act of shutting down sangeetham.com where in they grabbed all the posts is more a case of crossing the bridge and burning the bridge . It is very sad that he has taken all our posts with sangeetham.com - he could atleast keep the site read only and keep all the posts for all of us to read .

Sanjay indeed has taken rasikas and audiences for granted , he can restore sangeetham.com and give us back the posts. I will pay for the hosting , we dont need any revenue model.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 19 Jun 2015, 09:03

Rajeshnat,
I am forced to write about my experiences with Sanjay reg. sangeetham.com. He was INTIMATELY involved with the whole website in GREAT DETAIL INCLUDING THE details like whether internet explorer or yahoo was better etc & how to get it going. I even investigated having the server in USA etc when they decided they cannot afford to keep it going because of economics. MY ADMIRATION FOR S KRIS IN KEEPING RASIKAS GOING CANNOT BE DESCRIBED IN ENGLISH BY ME! Incidentally till Sridhar-EASHA- Became administrator of Sangeethapriya that website forced persons like me to not participate fully....IT IS VERY HARD TO KEEP THESE THINGS GOING OVER A LONG PERIOD & I CONGRAGULATE&THANK THEM FOR THEIR HERCULEAN EFFORTS....VKV

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 19 Jun 2015, 11:26

VKV Sir
I am not agreeing on your post sir. Moderation is very tricky and it is tough yes.Growing the site with possibly more features is also difficult . But keeping the site just with lights on , disabling the write and having it read only is definitely very simple and it is just a 2 minute feature in php bb. It is not big money for sure and I do know that for sure.

It is not a small count of posts. It is roughly 5 years worth of data- so many great posts are gone for ever . Also I do remember sriram and sanjay indeed had a company or a sister company like broadgate services (name bit slips) which did the work. Also to completely erase the content from archives , to completely purge the content thru already indexed engines etc, to make sure not an iota of content is got by anyone required effort and they must have spent lot of additional money .If 10% of us contribute a dollar we can run for it 100 years sir.

Like you I appreciate srkris ,but Let us not sidetrack with appreciating srkris and the titanic sink of sangeetham.com . sangeetham.com team decided to pull the plug was a tsunami . I appeal for all to build enough pressure and push sanjay to restore the posts.

At a bare minimum the community that contributed have a "RIGHT" to see our own posts and those posts indeed have a everlasting value till as long as CM is going to be there.

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 21 Jun 2015, 06:55

kvchellappa wrote:To be carved in gold:
"I don’t take the audience for granted. I don’t believe I am doing them a favour. They are doing me a favour by allowing me to indulge in this art form full time."

This has resemblance to what Gandhiji wrote on Customer Service.