Sangita Kalanidhi 2015

[sureshvv]

Yes... The harimau brothers ?

[Always_Evolving]

the award is not for having been a child (baby, even!) prodigy, but for what he is now.

Nick, I totally agree, its not an award for having been a baby-prodigy. Just that Ravikiran's earnest and full-on musical career did start years ahead. As a teenager he presented amazingly beautiful concerts in the Academy's senior slot, to full-house audiences. One particular from the 1986 season in which he played an elaborate Kambodhi RTP (Parimalarangapathaye) in his unfluttered style, and perfect kaala-pramanam from end to end, comes to mind.

[harimau]

I don't think I'm doing a very good job of saying what I want to say. Let me try another approach... the award is not for having been a child (baby, even!) prodigy, but for what he is now.

Can anyone seriously suggest that Ravikiran has done nothing after being a child prodigy?

Can anyone dispute the partial list of his musical skills that I listed in my post #100?

Has Ravikiran gone on a decline since his early days for him to be considered less suitable than the musician chosen this year?

Boy, there are so many persons who are now saying that Sudha after all was not such a bad a choice two years ago.

That is the only good fallout from this year's selection.

[Nick H]

Can anyone seriously suggest that Ravikiran has done nothing after being a child prodigy?

etc

Did anybody suggest that? I don't think so. Certainly not me.

He is, after all, my favourite for the title, and not just for what he did as a baby. I didn't know him when he was a baby.

I might, though, institute a special award for what his father did when he was a baby!

[thanjavooran]

IMO Persons unconcerned are dragged in this thread.
Thanjavooran
25 06 2015

[ramamantra]

I believe Music Academy should reveal the criteria used in selecting a Sangita Kalanidhi and the group that was involved in the selection process.

MA is like any sabha. I don't know but I think no other sabha reveal any criteria for their award selections. So, I guess MA too doesn't.

If ppl stop giving too much importance to MA, I suppose it will adhere to democratic ways.

[vasanthakokilam]

I wanted to use the phrase 'have an axe to grind' in a post in this thread. Before using it, I wanted to make sure the idiomatic use I have in mind is the correct one. What I found is the following which is consistent with what I had in mind, so let me use it.
"to have a strong opinion about something, which you are often trying to persuade other people is correct "

Harimau, this is not a response to your opinion on the qualifications Ravikiran has for SK. This thread is not about RK and I do not think anyone is disputing whether RK deserves an SK or not. We are all fully aware of his greatness.

Your post trashing SS's tala and swarasuddham is just in poor taste. Many great musicians have had such issues on a bad day. Every Turing award winning great computer scientists have written a crashing computer program and Nobel Prize winning scientists have had a mishap or two. Such things do not define them. This is not a competition of that kind.

Given your past history of extreme negativism about SS that borders on harping, that post does not rise above the threshold for 'having an axe to grind'.

[kolenidhi]

- SK pose in Hindu

[uday_shankar]

This thread is not about RK

I disagree with that vk (although I agree with your observation that Harimau's post was in bad taste). This thread is about the Sangeeta Kalanidhi, purportedly the premier title awarded for achievements in the field of Carnatic music. Keep in mind that it is a broad mandate.

Ravikiran has contributed to the field in spades for at least two decades prior to the rest of his so-called "bracket" (to use rajeshnat's term), i.e., those born in the late 1960's. That coupled with the sheer qantum, breadth and quality of his contributions made him the most worthy well before anybody else in his generation. Therefore awarding the title to Sanjay, no doubt an excellent and hard-working vocalist, prior to Ravikiran is an egregious error on the part of the academy.

It's a case of Lalgudi all over again.

N Murali, in many of his speeches, has referred to Ravikiran as the "Sachin Tendulkar" of Carnatic music. However, when the time came for awarding titles, a little genie whispered in his ear that Shourav Ganguly is an ideal choice. Even more ironical, Murali made a great fuss in his speech at the Lalgudi lifetime awards ceremony about righting the errors of the past.

Congrats to Sanjay and his fans !

[Always_Evolving]

VK wrote:

Harimau, this is not a response to your opinion on the qualifications Ravikiran has for SK. This thread is not about RK and I do not think anyone is disputing whether RK deserves an SK or not. We are all fully aware of his greatness.

VK, some of us -- certainly Harimau and myself -- are disputing the choice of awardee for this year. We are saying that being 'fully aware of his greatness' while failing to acknowledge his automatic choice, is like ignoring the rhinoceros in the living room. It only colludes with the political hubris shown by the academy. So in your phrase shown in blue above, I would susbtitute the name with SS -- but add that it should be after more deserving candidates. That to me would be right and courageous.

[kvchellappa]

While not disputing the merit of RK (who am I to do it?), the point of Sanjay's selection being 'political' is unjustified. If you think he deserves less, so be it. But, any suggestion that Sanjay was politically favoured lacks substance.

[EighthNote]

why unnecessarily pay attn to this harimau chap. it only encourages him to babble more... he is so full of himself (you know what I mean)

[kvchellappa]

When SSi was given, I vaguely remember having read criticism MMI must have been given. When finally MMI was given, ARI said that he should have been given earlier. I am only pointing out that such judgments have happened. The panel has not revealed the reasons, and Sanjay fans are justified in feeling elated without any aspersion to others overlooked. The fans are not to blame for miscarriage of the award, if that be the truth.

[kvchellappa]

Harimau adds fun and is needed.

[ramamantra]

While not disputing the merit of RK (who am I to do it?), the point of Sanjay's selection being 'political' is unjustified.

Wonder what V Sriram was upto all these days, if not 'political'.

[hnbhagavan]

Looks like even in this forum there is no recommendations for Vodwans O S tyagarajan and Vijaya Siva two very deserving Vidwans.The focus is on N Ravikiran only.

[vasanthakokilam]

Radhika, Uday, yes, my main point is more about the mean spiritedness exhibited in tearing down an artist.

On the points you made, I think a lot of people here will agree with that nuanced position.

[Nick H]

Yes, VK, we can attack the decision without attacking the man. I see no need to attack the man. Actually, I do not think it any great insult to an artist to suggest that they may not deserve, or deserve less, the SK award. We may wholeheartedly adore their performance without feeling that they are necessarily the right person. Not every person fits every job; not every person fits every award.

Looks like even in this forum there is no recommendations for Vodwans O S tyagarajan and Vijaya Siva two very deserving Vidwans.The focus is on N Ravikiran only.

True. We are focussing on two names: the one that got, and the one that many of us would like to have seen get.

Well, for many years, TVG was the one some of us wanted to see get it: last year he did. There are other years, other names, and Ravikiran is but one of the deserving.

Whatever might be read into some of my comments, just because I think someone else the more deserving, does not mean that I am against Sanjay or his fans. Indeed, I am happy for them. There are names that would indeed have increased my hair loss and decreased my respect for the institution of the MA --- and it is quite likely that they will, some year in the future, be winners. Probably, then, I won't even bother with the discussion. I shriek when I stub my toe; my wife comes running; I say, "minor injuries make me scream: it's when I go silent that you need to worry!"

And yes, why we give such importance to the MA and the SK remains a mystery. The awards of other major sabhas pass almost unnoticed, but MA and SK whips us up into a frenzy every year!

[hnbhagavan]

And yes, why we give such importance to the MA and the SK remains a mystery. The awards of other major sabhas pass almost unnoticed, but MA and SK whips us up into a frenzy every year! -Nick

This title is the one which fetches more awards and is the one most mentioned - More like a Bharatarathna given by Govt Of India.
Music Academy is still the most prestigious body in spite of whatever short comings it has.You know very well as to how many musicians still desire the prime slot in MA.In fact many musicians post it in FB and other places when they get to perform in MA.Then you can imagine the importance of the title as such.

[harimau]

Harimau, this is not a response to your opinion on the qualifications Ravikiran has for SK. This thread is not about RK and I do not think anyone is disputing whether RK deserves an SK or not. We are all fully aware of his greatness.

Your post trashing SS's tala and swarasuddham is just in poor taste. Many great musicians have had such issues on a bad day.

Given your past history of extreme negativism about SS that borders on harping, that post does not rise above the threshold for 'having an axe to grind'.

Ravikiran was a strawman I put up because he is absolutely without question the strongest candidate.

Others such as Nick, Uday Shankar and Always-Evolving jumped in perhaps because they saw merit in my arguments or because they couldn't dispute my logic or they had an axe to grind.

I did ask why not Aruna Sayeeram, Ranjani-Gayathri, Bombay Jayasri, T M Krishna or Nithyasri.

I cannot be bothered to produce an Excel table listing all of these candidates' qualifications for the SK. So I gave a short post of 5 points for Ravikiran.

Off the top of my head, let me talk about Ranjani- Gayathri (RG).

They started out as violinists. Proved themselves to be excellent accompanists as well as a violin duo. This phase would be from the mid- to late-1990s when they moved to Chennai. Clearly, they had an impressive career in Bombay before that for their dad to uproot his family and move to Chennai.

They were given the first opportunity as vocalists by Hamsadhwani in the 2001-2002 timeframe. Their 2003(?) US tour was as a violin duo though they gave one vocal performance also at the Cleveland Aradhana.

Unquestioned sruthi suddham on the violin as well as on the vocals. Brilliant swara prastharam. A long-term student of TRS gushes about their swara singing. By contrast, a serious music student and upcoming musician told me hardly 3 months back that she got nothing out of Sanjay's concert and saw no need to attend another for the next 10 years. So what did the Music Academy see that serious musicians cannot?

In the four-part interview in The Hindu, Sanjay acknowledges his struggles with layam and sruthi yet all of you dismiss my comments as what I happened to hear on an off-day for the singer!

Baloney!

Who has an axe to grind?

If you all want to bow down at Music Academy and chant 'We are not worthy, we are not worthy', go right ahead but don't expect me to join the chorus.

Go ahead, Excel jockeys. Create a table listing the skills of RG, Aruna Sayeeram, Bombay Jayasri, T M Krishna, Nithyasri, Ravikiran, Vijay Siva, etc. Let us rank that against the SK-designate's.

PS. I am leaving out VVSubramaniam, OST, Karaikkudi Mani, etc, because they are not in the age category that the Music Academy chose, not because they have any less merit.

[harimau]

why unnecessarily pay attn to this harimau chap. it only encourages him to babble more... he is so full of himself (you know what I mean)

Didn't I say not to read my posts if you don't like honesty?

[harimau]

Administrators, lock the thread, redact my posts, do whatever you want to suppress freedom of expression!

[kvchellappa]

Harimau fallacies:
1. Talking unfairly of an individual is honesty or hitting below the belt is.
2. Others got the idea about RK ignited by his wisdom.
3. Asking the admin. to delete his posts. (The forum has been a very free one. In fact, I often wonder why so many non-musical things are allowed here, e.g. the dress of Sudha for yoga, in what way does it concern rasikas of music? VK gave his view with which HM may disagree and some like me may; he did not question the post or delete it. It is unacceptable that an admin. does not have at least as much right to post his view as HM).

[harimau]

Yes, VK, we can attack the decision without attacking the man. I see no need to attack the man.

What was the personal attack? Telling the truth about unsuitability for an award and comparing to another person with superior qualifications is not a personal attack.

It is an attack on the judgment of the Music Academy!

[harimau]

Harimau fallacies:
1. Talking unfairly of an individual is honesty or hitting below the belt is.
2. Others got the idea about RK ignited by his wisdom.
3. Asking the admin. to delete his posts. (The forum has been a very free one. In fact, I often wonder why so many non-musical things are allowed here, e.g. the dress of Sudha for yoga, in what way does it concern rasikas of music? VK gave his view with which HM may disagree and some like me may; he did not question the post or delete it. It is unacceptable that an admin. does not have at least as much right to post his view as HM).

1. What was the unfair talk?

2. Harimau does not claim to be the sole fount of wisdom. If others choose to follow his reasoning, he merely sees it as the power of his logic.

3. Admins are known to threaten to lock threads (Sudha's dress at the International Yoga Day is an example) so I told them to exercise their authority as they see fit.

[harahari]

Hello

MA has erred badly & has lost its credibility as a premier organization.

The following great artists deserved the SK much before SS

1. V.V.Subramaniam
2. Guru Kaaraikkudi Mani
3. L. Subramaniam ( has performed with stalwarts like SSI , PMI etc & also has performed Indian Classical for the first time in many parts of the world )
4. Vikku Vinayakaram ( only Grammy winning Carnatic Musician )
5. Guruvayur Dorai
6. Haridwaramangalam Palanivel
7. O.S. Thiagarajan


Even the next rung of artists like the following deserved it ahead of SS

1. A. Kanyakumari ( Brilliant concerts with MLV & others ; trained so many good violinists)
2. Srimushnam Raja Rao
3. T. Rukmini ( Brilliant accompaniment for Mali, TRS etc.. )
4. G.J.R. Krishnan ( Great soloist & torch bearer of Lalgudi Bani )
5. Mysore Nagaraj ( Great artist , prodigy ,soloist,the best violin accompanist now ;brilliantly accompanied all stalwarts even before he turned 20)

SS could've been considered after all these much greater artists.

I don't find anything great about SS' music. No Sruthi Shuddham ( listen to any recording: his tambura is never in tune ), no great layam, no good voice .... not extraordinary in any aspect

I know I am a bit harsh, but truth is always harsh

[harahari]

Sorry
1.Ravi Kiran , of course in the first category
2. Ganesh (of ganesh-kumaresh )
3. V. Suresh ( ghatam ; extraordinarily brilliant playing for the past over 3 decades )
4.E.Gayatri (Veena)
5. D. Seshachri ( of Hyderabad brothers )

[kvchellappa]

Of course there are countless others, web space is not adequate.
I am surprised nobody brought up the name of Neyveli Santhanagopalan.

[kvchellappa]

I used to read and hear that apart from one or two (MS, MMI, KVN) no one else had sruti suddham. Thanks to Sanjay all others have now got it and only Sanjay is the offender. I think he deserves SK for making all others srthi compliant.

[uday_shankar]

Of course there are countless others, web space is not adequate.

That's nonsense but nice try. There's a genuine case for a handful of vidvans who can be deemed worthy of SK before SS and they can be contained in the space of a small rasikas post.

[kvchellappa]

Pl see the list given, it even includes a SK.

[arasi]

Every year this happens...

The Academy is the established temple of music and also the devil's abode--both in our perception. A great political machine as we see it, and somewhat in reality too. Nothing surprising there, because established and admired institutions lend themselves to criticism in a cinch. Look at the way that recently, the most admired phenomenon and new tradition which is the Cleveland Festival was attacked by those who feel frustrated merely because they or their families or favorites have been 'overlooked?

This is not new. The older the establishment, the longer the list of slips (real ones and perceived ones). We don't even have to recollect, it's all there at our finger tips to know that almost every year brought about frustrations and ill feelings, and worse.

Still, the Music Academy of old Madras is the sanctum sanctorum for many of us. A tradition, unlike what we find the arena of politics to be, because it is the house of music, dance and
scholarship. An institution and tradition we have respected as we do, marriages.

A marriage is set. The groom is not everyone's favorite. There are better matches too in the family's view. The family is part of the wedding. There, they throw rotten tomatoes, disprove his qualities by crying out that he isn't as brilliant as he's made out to be--see, he only got a decent grade in a particular exam, he isn't half as handsome as the other one considered earlier by the family, blah, blah. Why don't we do it? Tradition? DECENCY?

Our frustrations in not seeing our favorites as the winner is understandable, but there is decorum, not merely on a forum, but outside of it, in our very lives. To me, Ravikiran deserves the honor of the title, did even earlier and there's absolutely no doubt about it in my mind. And I admire Uday (the biggest fan of RK among us, certainly) for keeping his cool, even though he's greatly disappointed.

I am also a fan of Sanjay's music, and am delighted that he turned out to be the recipient. If not this year, he was bound to get it in the next few years.

Harimau,
How can we get to the level of a certain Cleveland basher, stoop even lower in our bad mouthing any musician for that matter?

The consolation is--in all this, neither one has lost his wealth of music. In all our belittling the award and in indulging in this binge of nastiness...

[harahari]

kvchellappa said :
Pl see the list given, it even includes a SK.

Pray , who's that ?

[kvchellappa]

I got it wrong. Sorry.

[kunthalavarali]

K V Chellappa wrote "When SSi was given, I vaguely remember having read criticism MMI must have been given". I wonder if it is correct (both MMI and GNB were younger than SSI). But what we know from one of M Sriram's book is that CVB was offended. He was 12 years older than SSI and a star performer with huge following at that time. Even MSI was younger than CVB.

[Nick H]

Yes, VK, we can attack the decision without attacking the man. I see no need to attack the man.

What was the personal attack? Telling the truth about unsuitability for an award and comparing to another person with superior qualifications is not a personal attack.

I agree. You seem to be reading stuff into my posts in this thread that was never there. Also, perhaps, thinking that things are addressed to you personally, when they were not.

Has the cat been getting sleepy in the May/June sun? Hmmm... Can't be! We didn't have much this year

[rajeshnat]

I disagree with that vk (although I agree with your observation that Harimau's post was in bad taste). This thread is about the Sangeeta Kalanidhi, purportedly the premier title awarded for achievements in the field of Carnatic music. Keep in mind that it is a broad mandate.

Ravikiran has contributed to the field in spades for at least two decades prior to the rest of his so-called "bracket" (to use rajeshnat's term), i.e., those born in the late 1960's. That coupled with the sheer qantum, breadth and quality of his contributions made him the most worthy well before anybody else in his generation. Therefore awarding the title to Sanjay, no doubt an excellent and hard-working vocalist, prior to Ravikiran is an egregious error on the part of the academy.

It's a case of Lalgudi all over again.

N Murali, in many of his speeches, has referred to Ravikiran as the "Sachin Tendulkar" of Carnatic music. However, when the time came for awarding titles, a little genie whispered in his ear that Shourav Ganguly is an ideal choice. Even more ironical, Murali made a great fuss in his speech at the Lalgudi lifetime awards ceremony about righting the errors of the past.

Congrats to Sanjay and his fans !

Uday,
# The year was 1979 around June- i was surely not a prodigy then to note it- but I am just extrapolating now. Semmangudi pushed three of his chellas - 1979 (KS Narayanaswamy), 1980 (TN Krishnan) and 1981(TM Thyagarjan) in a hatrick. Certainly those years musicians like Veena Balachandar, Lalgudi Jayaraman and MD Ramanathan were more able candidates -then , now and forever.

#To me I am more worried about the independence of an institution to award merit based on years and not give out of turn and get hijacked by one small group of biased insiders and push some one much relatively younger person as SK . IT looks that indeed happened. There appears to be a mad mad rush to push sanjay in the league of GNB, MMI , SSI etc and the race is won by that team lead by V Sriram. Quite frankly none of today generation are in that league and these musicians from ravikiran , vijay and sanjay logically and in all fairness have to wait atleast to get to the age of near sudha to get SK- that way very deserving personalities like VVS ,ME ,KM and OST will be getting now. Only one person who deserved this out of turn before 48 is only mandolin shrinivas - he had the sheer kataksham,mass and class appeal but that was unfortunate - god snatched him.

# I also heard thru grapevine when LGJ was again given, he should have taken it. It was only few close advisors who advised LGJ not to take the award . I also wish that History is not repeated . In short I would love all musicians to wait till their life time and not have the ill feeling that they have not got it first. How many mahanubhavulus were not even considered?

# I wish, I was the genie who whispered to all ears in academy- and said give the SK to TRS , he is the don bradman - garfield sobers who waited till 2013 upto the age of 84. dont even bring tendulkar and ganguly.

AE and Uday,
Just a different take, historically always vocalist some way or the other get it if they do live bit longer they surely make it. Take as of now all the vocalist who are meritorious and born before 1950 some how have got it. OST started bit late but i have a feeling he will end up soon with SK. The problem is when a vocalist is given a particular year , all the non vocalist (violinist, flute ,mrudangam, few thavil , clarinet) all are in race- there is a huge constraint problem to accommodate and choose one . So as such for the non vocalist - the success rate is skewed away and they have to wait longer . When TVG got it in 2014, i am not sure if for 2015 ravikiran (another instrumentalist)would be even considered for 2015 .It looks RK lobby was just pushy but sanjay lobby was more pushy pushy.

[uday_shankar]

rajesh

I don't know how much you've followed Ravikiran, there's nothing wrong if you haven't, but it would be obtuse to classify him as an "instrumentalist" in the same vein as a say Vellore Ramabhadran or even U Srinivas.

At one time (until the age of 12), all his concerts were vocal. He sang complex RTP's. Since becoming a gotuvadyam/chitravina artist, at least 5 to 10% of all his katcheris have been vocal. In addition, he has 700+ excellent compositions in different languages, ragas, talas, forms, intended to be sung "vocally". He has unearthed and breathed life into a whole universe of "vocal" compositions by Oothukaadu Venkataka Kavi and routinely gives "vocal" concerts of OVK compositions. He has worked immensely to enhance the "vocal" qualities his instrument as well as playing techniques to make it literally "sing".

It's OK for a rasika like you to remain ignorant of all this but it would be singularly obtuse on the part of an expert organization like the MA to delibrately classify him as "just another instrumentalist". I have to believe that it can be only out of a malicious intent. Like only Lalgudi Jayaraman before him, Ravikiran covered all aspects of Carnatic music and must be labeled "musician" first and only then as a specialist on the chitravina/gotuvadyam. Again, like Lalgudi Jayaraman, a large percentage of his disciples are all vocalists.

[uday_shankar]

I got it wrong. Sorry.

So you agree what you said earlier was nonsense ?

[mahavishnu]

Uday: I am totally with you re: the Lalgudi analogy.
I wonder if RK will accept the SK when it is eventually offered to him.

In the end, the decision to award Sanjay this year is a victory for Mylapore and its mavens. Ironically, they were once his strongest critics.

[vasanthakokilam]

>(Sudha's dress at the International Yoga Day is an example)
Sure, but different thread, different reason.

Harimau, none of my posts here are from a moderator angle. (if it is I will make that explicit).

I have already written as to why I found that specific post of yours to be in poor taste. Given your background here with posts about SS, you do have an axe to grind. Also, by quoting those aspects to support your point of view, you are not just disputing MA's decision this year, you are essentially denying his worthiness as SK in any year ( through implication ).

(Always_Evolving, you may have an overlap with harimau but you two come at this from totally different perspectives. You clearly state that SS should get it after others like RK. Harimau brings in others just to put down SS, not to prop up others. Whether he cares about those other musicians or not does not seem to be relevant here, given that context)

[rajeshnat]

In the end, the decision to award Sanjay this year is a victory for Mylapore and its mavens.

Mahavishnu,
Mylapore Mavens are always there irrespective of whoever the awardee is-that is the core committee of academy. Perhaps I am not understanding whom you are exclusively calling 600004 Mavens . If say RK or VS was rewarded would that mean that it is not victory for mylapore mavens.

[mahavishnu]

Rajesh: The answer is self-evident. That is the most I can say in a public forum.

[rajeshnat]

rajesh
I don't know how much you've followed Ravikiran, there's nothing wrong if you haven't, but it would be obtuse to classify him as an "instrumentalist" in the same vein as a say Vellore Ramabhadran or even U Srinivas.

At one time (until the age of 12), all his concerts were vocal. He sang complex RTP's. Since becoming a gotuvadyam/chitravina artist, at least 5 to 10% of all his katcheris have been vocal.
.....
....
It's OK for a rasika like you to remain ignorant of all this but it would be singularly obtuse on the part of an expert organization like the MA to delibrately classify him as "just another instrumentalist". I have to believe that it can be only out of a malicious intent.

Uday,
I certainly do know RK has performed vocal and heard him once his vocal concert though in that concert i was hearing equal dose of anahita ravindran singing along with RK in that concert. He is perhaps also most appreciated by even cream of exemplary musicians as of today .

It looks like you and harimau(both have the same strong feelings - while harimau comes more aggressive in writing that is all- his written aggression is what makes it interesting in our forum, he stirs out so well that we all care to communicate more ) .It looks you,AE and Harimau are building a case that allround skills has to be appreciated than just being a great batsman .Harimau just dismissing this year SK musician that he is just a singer does not resonate me that well and I disagree . I would have preferred to hear you, Harimau building a case for VVS, KM ,ME and OST in first place and point out .Then goto next half gen of RK,SS,VS - as the second set of pet peeve . But you prefer to go with your pet peeve, that is fine too.For each of us -we have our own heroes ,our own pet peeves and our own likes . I am not sure of the malicious intent part .

Through your post I am imagining how RK is possibly feeling .But i wish RK all the best and he is going to make it in few years time and he should not have the deep feeling that he was passed and not given at the right time .

- almost pavamana for me in this thread.

[ganesh_mourthy]

These awards are hard to decide and there is no golden standard as such , especially in fine arts where we have to leave a lot to abstractions.

It is very hard to decide between a great bowler and great batsman on who is the best, but both are crucial. There will be always an inherent leaning towards one for some reason we cannot explain. The amount of singing and performances Sanjay has given so far , RK is nowhere closer. RK is primarily now a instrumentalist and additionally (sometimes) a vocalist and his variety in singing is not as expansive as in his instrumental performances for sure. May be it is to do the proportion between singing concerts and chitraveena concerts.
So it is wrong to even qoute that SS and RK sing. Sanjay is primarily a vocalist, and RK an instrumentalist who also sings.

And again, with lack of shruthi, husky recalcitrant and non CM voice of SS as some has quoted, ( yet someone to explain what is a cachet of CM voice, and how many SKs in the past have been super shrudhi sudham???????), I greatly wonder , is RK a CM voice. Now that with the RKs singing merit , none discussed RKs singing prowess ( particularly his voice and shruthi) and his repertoire in singing domain without cutting any slacks because he is multi-faceted.

As far as his compositions goes, it is yet to get truly popularised like that of Lalgudi Thillanas. If I were to open a separate thread after the hustle and bustle of this SS mudslinging is over, I am sure his compositions would be torn down comparing the already existing thousands of marvelous pieces, and belittling his efforts as an attempt to avert the likelihood of other existing , less known compositions getting popular. And his 700 compositions will definitely be ridiculed as a greed for number race even it is worthy of praise.

But 700 , but why is something even I wonder now. How many are popular and is widely sung now ?? How many composers received SK so far ? Does compositions of 700 ( quantity as of now and time will test on quality ) should be a bench mark for a musician to qualify.

I find this hard to write as I do not like to belittle someone , and my not giving credit to his compositions because I have not analized them all does not mean RK is not reverred by me. I am sure , all those crediting him for 700 has heard them all and marked them as some of the best compositions of Carnatic music because his (((((((((((((700))))))))))))))) compositions has echoed several times here by many , especially to trivialize and undervalue SS. His vocal skills , vocal concerts,vocal variety, vocal shruthi has not been analized yet. That can be reserved for a time when he gets the SK.

But as far as Carnatic Music goes, there is ,and always will be, a lenience towards vocalists , because vocal singing brings out the essence of carnatic music fully which is centered around compositions. To analyse and compare , it is hard for me to compare a vocalist and instrumentalist , because of the amount of compositons and sahithyam one has to bring life to , which is different in instrument and vocal . Both has its limitations and strengths which is different from each other.

I have followed RKs concerts quite a lot and he is definitely wonderful and deserves SK sooner for his rich knowledge and his arresting playing style of chithraveena . Or probably he deserves a SK Top may be if that can right the wrong ?

RK, if you are reading this (wish you are not) , beware... there will be a big group here burning your effigy when you receive the SK

SS, if you are reading too ( and wish too , you are not) the above statement is to soften the blow on you

[music1234]

Why are you guys not picking the selection committee and bashing on the way the Padma Awardees and Bharat Ratna Awardees (specially for music) are being selected ?? In amy award that is given and the way awardees are selected, there is an objective and subjective element. If an SK award is given to a couple of dozen musicians year on year, it just loses its value. I doubt if performing musicians are overtly concerned, it is just we who keep debating this. AND THIS FORUM HAS INDEED BECOME FAMOUS WHERE THIS IS DISCUSSED ENDLESSLY YEAR AFTER YEAR .....

This site reminds me of Goscinny & Uderzo's comic characters in the famous Asterix & Obelix comics. Digress from the main topic and bash each other

[uday_shankar]

all those crediting him for 700

Excuse me, RK is "crediting" himself:
http://www.ravikiranmusic.com/composer_carnatic.htm
Knowing the man's integrity, I am quite happy to go by the face value of that statement. Moreover, I am also privy to having glanced at some notebooks with those handwritten compositions. Savita Narasimhan has published a book with about 100 of those I believe. There's also a wonderful little book Sadaa Sharanam, with an introduction by M Balamuralikrishna, which contains about 40 compositions. Again, if I can be believed, I can vouch for the outstanding quality of the handful that I have heard, particularly the tillanas. As for "all those", in this thread it's only me and Always_Evolving (aka Radhika Rammohan, my wife!). So I don't know who else you mean by "all those".

especially to trivialize and undervalue SS

Again, if I can be believed, there is no intention to "trivialize and undervalue" but merely point out the precedence of the rhinoceros in the living room by enumerating the various attributes of said rhinoceros...two horns, armor plate, weighs two tonnes, 700 compositions, etc..

Through your post I am imagining how RK is possibly feeling

. I don't know if RK is feeling anything at all or not. So don't imagine too much.

I think I have already prolonged my reaction to this. I absolutely don't have time to linger in rasikas.

[Rsachi]

I hate to butt into this rather serious debate as I am singularly unqualified. But what prompts this post is my respect for both RK and SS and this forum:
1. Both Ravikiran and Sanjay have dedicated their lives to creating music FOR US (not US of A but accusative plural of personal pronoun I)
2.WE have to be grateful for their music and honour and respect them as such.
3. No award is decided in a foolproof manner and MA is doing their best within their own format.
4. Once an award is announced it is best to celebrate it and congratulate the winner.
5. Let us build a good compendium on Ravikiran (I request Uday to lead this) and forward to MA*
6. Best to avoid acrimony and putting down any artiste.

* A stage is reached in a musician's career where a sedate compendium of accomplishments and range of works and critical reviews is better than hyperbole and screaming "best-seller" blurbs. By doing it wrongly we hurt the musician's reputation.

[CommonMan]

If only the MA followed its erstwhile chaste principles of not awarding SK in a year where it does not deem any musician fit. Coming to think of it, since the mid 80s only a third or less of the SKs actually deserved it ...this is my opinion and I am not sure if I would take the efforts to justify my take...

It is during the mid 80s that the dilution of SK - meaning awarding SK to musicians who do not entirely or in some cases even partially deserve it - actually began, and its ramifications since then has been a curse to the musical fraternity....

Just aside, the whole process of lobbying for SK started in late 70s by a recent SK in favor of TNK.....much akin to how DMK spear-headed and paved way for corruption in politics

I

[sureshvv]

In the end, the decision to award Sanjay this year is a victory for Mylapore and its mavens..

Yes. In the end, Mylapore always wins!