HIGH TIME WE HAVE A "CONTRACT" IN PLACE TO SAVE THE ARTISTS".

[rvkrishnamurthy]

The problem with CM and probably with Hindusthaniorganizers is there is no "contract" system in place. Everything is verbal and not challenged or accountable. I have had many experiences. I want to cite some examples. Let us say I am a violinist. Some organizer from Seattle will call me and say " we are arranging a concert by this famous musician from Chennai on so and so date and we want you to play the violin. We will pay you travel and 200$. So book your ticket and you can stay with one of the organizers." Great. I have a six figure salary job and travel plus 200$ is no big deal for me as long as I can say I played for this famous singer. I book the ticket. Few days before the concert, the organizer calls me and says "the singer could not come due to visa issues so we have to cancel the concert". OK. now who will pay for the money I paid for the ticket? I cancel it and lose 80% of the money. This is how CM organizations in the US work. If there was a contract, it will clearly spell out what will happen if the concert is canceled. What will happen if I did not show up etc. What if I had turned down an opportunity on the same day hoping that this concert would happen?
The situation is as bad in India. Two years ago Rohan was scheduled to play in a senior slot in a good sabha in Chennai during the season. He was also contacted for another concert at the same time by another sabha but he declined it since he had agreed for this. Three days before the concert, the artist called the sabha and said she can not come and is canceling the concert. The concerts were being organized by one of the modern "event managers" and that person contacted another senior artist to fill in the slot. She agreed. But the "event manager" didn't have the courtesy to tell her that the original accompanists will play. She chose her own accompanists. Rohan and the violinist were left out in the lurch. It was no big deal for us. But the violinist, a local who makes his living by playing, was shocked and cursed his stars.
Many years ago a famous mridangist, Thanjavoor Vaidyhanathan, wrote in the Shruti magazine how he was asked to collaborate in a studio recording and in the last minute the the vocalist canceled it. What did he receive out of this? Nothing. He perhaps did not accept any other offer on that day because he had agreed to do the recording.
That is why a contract system that is accountable and that can be enforced is essential. Otherwise the main artists as well as the accompanists will continued to be exploited.

[varsha]

Who is this Rohan ?

[advaitin]

[sureshvv]

Some guy without a contract

[harimau]

How about the tour organiser who was left high and dry because the artist decided to return to India for some reason or other after a couple of concerts in the US?

The economics dictate that the artist perform a certain number of concerts for the tour to break even and if the artist left early, the tour organiser is left holding the bag.

It has happened more than once.

Here it is not the artist but your bete noire, the organiser, who is being exploited.

We need contracts to save the organisers, a fact that you seem to be blind to.

PS. The only gentleman in such a situation is K J Jesudas who cancelled one concert in Dallas because he was selected for the President's Award and the announcement came after he started the tour and award ceremony was too close to the concert date. He not only reimbursed all expenses incurred for scheduling the Dallas concert but paid the organiser his estimated profit for that concert. I don't think the contract contained any clause spelling out obligations if a concert got cancelled, for the simple reason that nobody could have foreseen such an eventuality.

[Ranganayaki]

We need contracts to save the organisers, a fact that you seem to be blind to.

Contracts are meant to protect all parties if they are properly drafted, everyone knows that. Rvk probably had the interests of the artists, may be the most frequently inconvenienced, in mind, and could have forgotten the needs of the organizers. It's no crime!

RVK raises an important issue, and while no one likes what he does on the forum wrt Rohan, we don't have to ridicule him for this post. Rohan is an example in this post and it could have been any other artist who has been carelessly treated.

[vasanthakokilam]

Let the organizer buy the plane or train tickets. The problem is solved for such expenses. Cancelations or changes of itinerary do happen due to unforeseen circumstances and it is better to work out the ramifications in advance. If contracts are the right instruments for that, why not?

These days there are quite a few out of town accompanists ( with in the U.S. and from India ) for bharatha natyam arangetram and other events. If they are organized individually, it is done on an ad-hoc basis and the family usually comes good on paying the vidwans in case there are some changes to the schedules. They do not sign contracts. But there are organizers who offer packages where the full troupe is put together and they travel to different cities during summer. From what I hear, there are legally binding contracts involved in such arrangements. Can someone who is involved with such arrangements provide some details?

[harimau]

We need contracts to save the organisers, a fact that you seem to be blind to.

Contracts are meant to protect all parties if they are properly drafted, everyone knows that. Rvk probably had the interests of the artists, may be the most frequently inconvenienced, in mind, and could have forgotten the needs of the organizers. It's no crime!

RVK raises an important issue, and while no one likes what he does on the forum wrt Rohan, we don't have to ridicule him for this post. Rohan is an example in this post and it could have been any other artist who has been carelessly treated.

Exactly where in my post did you think was ridiculing anybody?

[tiruppugazh]

How about the tour organiser who was left high and dry because the artist decided to return to India for some reason or other after a couple of concerts in the US?

I heard that Mandolin Shrinivas many years back actually did this to the Cleveland Aradhana. The reason it seems was however that the sponsors had bungled with the visas of the artistes.
Some organisers have the luxury of family members bailing them out.

[Ranganayaki]

Exactly where in my post did you think was ridiculing anybody?

May be I wasn't clear. I quoted you and responded. Then in a new paragraph, meaning it was not about the same quote, I said the rest. I was referring to the ridicule implied in the other responses. It was in addition to my response to you. I could have kept quiet instead, but this time I spoke up.

I think it's good that you mentioned the other side.

[harimau]

How about the tour organiser who was left high and dry because the artist decided to return to India for some reason or other after a couple of concerts in the US?

I heard that Mandolin Shrinivas many years back actually did this to the Cleveland Aradhana. The reason it seems was however that the sponsors had bungled with the visas of the artistes.
Some organisers have the luxury of family members bailing them out.

You actually have something to say other than "Manavaadudaasaru"?

I am amazed!

PS. I mentioned the Jesudas incident because I am familiar with it and have only peripherally heard about a few others. Maybe you can now add "Malayala daasan" to your vocabulary.

[tiruppugazh]

peripherally heard about a few others

How very convenient when the issue I highlighted involves a Manavaadu and the Cleveland Mafia.

As for Jesudas, hear this out - He conducted a special homage to Chembai in Krishna Gana Sabha and made all the musicians perform for peanuts and pocketed several lakhs by selling the rights to a private channel. Of course this is something I heard peripherally

Anyway Jesudas sings such juvenile pallavis that most musicians, including your very own Manavaadu Double Nadai Nymph, will just pooh pooh it with their little finger!

[sureshvv]

As for Jesudas, hear this out - He conducted a special homage to Chembai in Krishna Gana Sabha and made all the musicians perform for peanuts and pocketed several lakhs by selling the rights to a private channel. Of course this is something I heard peripherally

Tiruppugazh sir;

These peripheral conspiracy stories are cooked up by some malicious aravaadus. I suggest that you don't naively repeat them or people may think you are one of them

[rvkrishnamurthy]

I couldn't agree more with some of the replies. Absolutely a contract is binding on both the parties. Either party should be held accountable. My experience is as far as CM concerned, the main losers have been accompanists.

[cacm]

OMIT

[cacm]

[quote="tiruppugazh"][quote]peripherally heard about a few others
How very convenient when the issue I highlighted involves a Manavaadu and the Cleveland Mafia.
CAN YOU NAME THE PROMINENT MEMBERS OF THE "CLEVELAND MAFIA". DO YOU HAVE THE GUTS? DON'T WRITE NON-SENSE WORDS LIKE MAFIA. VKV

[cacm]

[quote="cacm"][quote="tiruppugazh"][quote]How about the tour organiser who was left high and dry because the artist decided to return to India for some reason or other after a couple of concerts in the US?
I heard that Mandolin Shrinivas many years back actually did this to the Cleveland Aradhana. The reason it seems was however that the sponsors had bungled with the visas of the artistes.Some organisers have the luxury of family members bailing them out.

I was the one who re-arranged his ticket to return to INDIA. YOUR STATEMENT ABOUT VISA IS TOTALLY WRONG. I am NOT going to write here what happened because YOU are here without even revealing your name & I have only contempt for such persons. VKV

[harimau]

peripherally heard about a few others

How very convenient when the issue I highlighted involves a Manavaadu and the Cleveland Mafia.

As for Jesudas, hear this out - He conducted a special homage to Chembai in Krishna Gana Sabha and made all the musicians perform for peanuts and pocketed several lakhs by selling the rights to a private channel. Of course this is something I heard peripherally

Anyway Jesudas sings such juvenile pallavis that most musicians, including your very own Manavaadu Double Nadai Nymph, will just pooh pooh it with their little finger!

I know first-hand about the incident regarding Jesudas because I was part of the team organising his concert where I lived and he was supposed to go to Dallas and we were making arrangements to drop him off at the airport for his flight. The tour sponsor called to say to send Jesudas back to India and explained the situation. Thus I have first-hand knowledge about the incident.

Anything else I may claim to know peripherally about is exactly that: I don't know the circumstances, I don't know the consequences, and I am not to go about digging into things that happened decades ago.

As to Jesudas singing simple pallavis, even there the object of your worship, the tup-tup artist, falls flat on his face. He cannot handle a simple adhi tala Pallavi; and I quoted an incident at the Bharath Sangeeth Utsav where he acknowledged that he couldn't come to edam after a korvai. That is one of several reasons why a budding musician said to me that there was nothing to learn from Sanjay's music for a musician/music student.

As to the tup-tup artist's claim that in one year he had sung all the melakartha ragas (one at a time in various concerts), I remember Jesudas singing a Pallavi line in the first 36 melakartha ragas in one concert. He said he would have liked to sing the Pallavi in all the 72 but for lack of time. It took about 90 minutes to cover the 36 ragas and it was well past 9 pm so he was not exaggerating.

Anyway, I read in the newspapers that milk producers were dumping milk in the street because Aavin was not taking the milk off their hands.

So, rather than place the bulk order for milk with Aavin, you may be able to get it directly from the milk producers. It will meet the further requirement (for abhishekam for gods) that the milk is not heated, pasteurised, toned, adulterated, etc.

I shall hang around the Music Academy to watch your antics. However, I shall skip the Academic Sessions altogether as there will be no value-add by the man presiding over it. My time in the mornings would be better spent at the Sri Parthasarathy Swami Sabha.

[tiruppugazh]

there the object of your worship

I don't know where you got that impression, but you are the worshipper of objects, specifically manavaadus I don't worship anyone.

I remember Jesudas singing a Pallavi line in the first 36 melakartha ragas in one concert. He said he would have liked to sing the Pallavi in all the 72 but for lack of time. It took about 90 minutes to cover the 36 ragas and it was well past 9 pm so he was not exaggerating.

I also heard from a budding artiste that all the 36 sounded the same!

I shall hang around the Music Academy to watch your antics.

These days I cannot even get out of the house because of my disabilities, so I'd rather sit online and watch you antics!

[tiruppugazh]

I was part of the team organising his concert where I lived

Nice to know you are also a "sheeper" from the Venerable Sheeple tribe!!

[vasanthakokilam]

He cannot handle a simple adhi tala Pallavi; and I quoted an incident at the Bharath Sangeeth Utsav where he acknowledged that he couldn't come to edam after a korvai.

I know this is not the main thrust of this thread but you keep repeating this every chance you get to drag in and to put down your favorite punching bag.
This kind of blatant and intentional mischaracterization is the reason why many artists do not want to be open about their faults in public. There is a much bigger and more beneficial lesson for music students to learn from that Sanjay interview than the pettiness of a conclusion you draw.

[kvchellappa]

Well said. Pathetic was too mild a word used in this connection in the relevant thread.
The self-appointed critic considers himself to be a super gnanastha. I consider TMK and Sandeep Narayan, who esteem SS's music, to be knowledgeable musicians. I do not know the credentials of the supercritic. I rise in revolt because he casts aspersions on those that appreciate SS's music.
I regret that the supercritic would boycott the sadas. It is a great loss to music that is irreparable.

[ganesh_mourthy]

Starting a neraval sometimes offnote and landing somwhere in a nowhere region, and similar alapanas cycles, struggling with Talams and edams , forgetting lyrics and mumbling are all common scene sometimes even in famous artistes. If Sanjay is admitting it , that is a character not all has. I have not heard many admitting their lapse. As far as Yesudas 36 melakarta pallavi in 90 min, I am curious to listen to it, though I like him.

[arasi]

Irrelevance rules...
Reverence for music
Done with--instead

Slander rages, bystanders
Become active pugilists,
Speaking tongues wherever
Whatever is discussed--turning
All to a war cry--against what?

Irrelevance rules--
Reverence for music
Done with--instead

Old long-winded woes
Unwind, more arrive
To rekindle the fire
'This one is better
Hear, hear, all!'

New threads, old complaints,
Worse still, name-calling stints
Of artistes and of listeners--

Music as a feast is besides the point--
Like canines after a feast fighting
Over left over food, we bark and bite
Belittle others with the powers of
A thing we deem sweet rasanA...

R for rough and tough
A for altercations
S for shame on us
A for acrimony
N for we are nowhere
A for all gods help...

[rshankar]

Just like we have a members' lounge, I suggest we create a members' boxing arena where interested parties may punch to their hearts' content, sparing the rest of us their juvenile antics.

[ganesh_mourthy]

superb idea. And the referee would be....

[rshankar]

superb idea. And the referee would be....

Oh..you think these guys want/need referees?

[harimau]

How about situations where the artist shows up for the performance but refuses to go on stage and demands more money than the agreed-upon amount?

You don't think that happens?

Or, those who perform private concerts while on tour, thus undercutting the income that would have defrayed the expenses of the tour?

You don't think that happens?

Or, those who refuse to get on a plane after tickets have been arranged and paid for?

Organisers (naive ones who think the artistic world is populated by men -- or women -- of their words) need protection from predatory artists!

[Ranganayaki]

Harimau, you seem to have a deep emotional connection to the organising side. Would you please explain it? We all know Sri RVK's connection to the performing side. Are you an organizer? I think you should disclose any connection (just the nature of it, at least, allowing you to keep your anonymity), not only for fairness, but also so we understand where you are coming from, otherwise this lack of balance in a discussion about the issue seems childish and not at all solution oriented.

[harimau]

Harimau, you seem to have a deep emotional connection to the organising side. Would you please explain it? We all know Sri RVK's connection to the performing side. Are you an organizer? I think you should disclose any connection (just the nature of it, at least, allowing you to keep your anonymity), not only for fairness, but also so we understand where you are coming from, otherwise this lack of balance in a discussion about the issue seems childish and not at all solution oriented.

I have not sponsored tours,in the sense of doing all the legwork associated with getting visas, contacting local organisers in US cities, etc.

I haven't held positions in any cultural organisations in US cities.

However, I have been a foot soldier in every city I have lived in the sense of providing logistics support to local organising committees.

If it involves transporting a dozen dancers after a dance recital 90 miles to the next city at 12 midnight, I was the guy to do it. If Jesudas arrives with a 10-member orchestra, I would be the one who would be responsible for picking them up and dropping them off at the hotel, at the venue and then at the airport. Transporting a vainika with the veena packed in a box larger than a coffin would fall to me. In several instances, I have hosted the artists themselves in my home.

Thus I am privy to the foibles of the artist community.

One person stands out for his gentlemanly conduct throughout: Neyyattinkara Vasudevan.

The others I hold in high esteem for their behaviour are Lalgudi Jayaraman, MLV, the family of DKP, Nirmala Sundararajan, Nedunuri Garu, RK Srikantan and of course the MS-Sadasivam duo.

Everyone else falls down by the wayside. Despite my starting off with low expectations.

That has been my experience.

YMMV.

PS. You could see that those who were models of good behaviour mainly belong to what may be called the old school. I have little use for the musicians who tour the US nowadays who think of themselves as business-savvy but who do not cultivate good human relationships.

I excuse all accompanying artists because they are totally under the thumbs of the main artists. Still MS Anantharaman and Vellore Ramabhadran are names I want to mention here as organiser-friendly gentlemen.

The places have been as varied as Philadelphia, Austin, TX, and cities in the Far West.

[RKrishnamurthy]

"However, I have been a foot soldier"
I have come across hordes of foot soldiers in my organizing capacity and they are the unsung heroes. They do so much for the artists and organizers that their efforts go unnoticed. But I always made sure that when I returned home and called them and thanked them for their work. So if you are or were a "foot soldier" be proud of it and you will always be cherished by us.