KARNATAKA SANGEETHAM FOR MASSES-MUSIC EDUCATION SERIES, OUTREACH PROGRAM INITIATIVE.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 04 Sep 2015, 12:35

I am appealing to the global members of rasikas.org to join me in the cause of Karnataka Sangeetham for Masses-Music Education Series, out reach program targeting school children in South India in the first phase and rest of India in the second phase.

Apex body for various individual organizations-NGO's working in music education to be created for standardization of systems and methods, practices and action plans. Artists and rasikas rendering voluntary services in successful implementation of the Apex body action plans. I desire and suggest the leadership of Sri Chitraveena Ravikiran and his team members chosen and residing in South India- Chennai, Coimbatore, Trichy/Madurai-all in Tamizh Nadu; Hyderabad,Visakapatnam, Vijayawada/Tirupathi-all in Andhra Pradesh and Telengana; Bengaluru, Mysuru and Mangalore all in Karnataka; Palghat, Trissur/Cochin and Trivandrum-all in Kerala; Pondichery.

As part of this initiative, One Day Event with programs- Lecture & Demonstrations, Panel Discussions, Experts Panel Discussions, with AIM of standardization of karnataka Sangeetham music education integrating the innovative teaching techniques and OBJECTIVE for preparing and recommending the Syllabus,systems and methods for teaching school children-direct and distance education is to be planned and conducted.

To meet the estimated expenditure for the One Day Event, please pledge your contribution with a minimum of INR 2,000/-per member. This appeal will be open from 4th of September To 30th of September, 2015. If the pledges confirm the arrangement for funds management further actions will be taken. The funds are to be transferred to the NGO volunteering and selected.

Thanking You all in anticipation

Sandhyavandanam Madhva Muni Rao (munirao2001)
E-Mail:munirao2001@hotmail.com.

vvssaraswathi · Post by **vvssaraswathi** » 10 Sep 2015, 12:36

Dear Munirao Sir

I pledge for 2000 rupees towards this noble cause

Thanks

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 15 Sep 2015, 16:30

Dear Forumites,

I fervently wish, hope and pray, on the eve of Ganesh Chaturthi Festival on THU, 17th of September, all the 'vighnas' in the minds of our forumites-both practitioners and rasikas will disappear and come forward to join this noble cause with commitment and contribution.

munirao2001

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 15 Sep 2015, 19:29

My contribution is Rs. 2000/-. Please let me know how to transfer the amount.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 16 Sep 2015, 10:58

Smt.V.V.Saraswathi and Sri V.Govindan Sir,
Your pledges reflect the commitment and dedication to this noble cause. I hope it will inspire the 'silent' majority of the members to join us. I am pledging Rs.4,000/-

munirao2001

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 16 Sep 2015, 17:00

I am pledging Rs 2000/- for the workshop.

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 16 Sep 2015, 17:40

My contribution is Rs. 10,000/-. Kindly let me know how to transfer the amount. amsharma

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 23 Sep 2015, 10:58

Forumites,
The deadline of 30th September,2015 is fast approaching. Out of 7911 members, the pledges received are from VVS, VG, Munirao, HNB and MSAkella-four and the pledge amount Rs.20,000/-.
* Why the initiative to further the interest, growth and development of art, focusing on critical issue of KM for Masses through education does not merit your attention(the number of hits) in comparison with other issues?
* Why parting with a small sum of Rs.2,000/-as expression of commitment and support does not happen?
* Why only performances of popular artists receive your support?
* Why only appeal from celebrity artist(s) is accepted?
* Is mistrust a factor?
* Is the understanding that rasikas do not care(one more instant) is correct?
* Is the understanding that rasikas expect only 'other(s)' duty to support is correct?

If not your pledges, please post your answers and views for my learning and understanding.

munirao2001

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 25 Sep 2015, 13:12

Dear Sri Munirao,

I am pained to see the cold response by our Rasikas forum and as such you may not get further responses.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 25 Sep 2015, 13:47

Hope this reduces your pain .

The whole set of questions is an impolite one .
It presumes a lot of things and let me clear the air . This had been coming from me in the last few occasions you have been writhing in pain . Better late than never so that it will stop all such surmises of apathy

* Why the initiative to further the interest, growth and development of art, ... does not merit your attention(the number of hits) in comparison with other issues?
It does merit my attention .Period . I don't complain when people don't download my tracks . I keep doing it because I believe it will reach some day somewhere
* Why parting with a small sum of Rs.2,000/-as expression of commitment and support does not happen?
Rs 2000 is small for the proposer , Not for me .

* Why only performances of popular artists receive your support?
Even with popular artists I dont attend even if spoon fed with a free pass .Less popular artists , I have raised over Rs 4 lakhs from rasikas and held 20 odd concerts of high calibre . I stopped when My contributions ended up becoming bigger and bigger . We worked with budgets of Rs 20000 per concert , kept artists happy , treated them like royalty . And the crowning glory was on a day when the Mrindangam player for Kalpagam Mami accepted the 100 rs note as part of transportation cost agreed before and returned Rs 30 saying , it costs me only 70 , Sir.

* Why only appeal from celebrity artist(s) is accepted?
There is a saying that goes : To be loved , make sure you are loveable .Appeals are accepted in a moment of altruistic compassion , and the celebrities help widen the net . Viswanathan Anand does it his way for disabled kids, for instance ( for decades ) . I do my own way . It is a personal choice .The fact that I will never be a celebrity or the world will never know does not deter me.
* Is mistrust a factor?
No .
* Is the understanding that rasikas do not care(one more instant) is correct?
Not correct . I have hosted Akellaji one decade ago.It is the rest who are warming up now .

* Is the understanding that rasikas expect only 'other(s)' duty to support is correct?
This is the stupid part. In future I would advise all to keep doing their bit instead of judging others . It is impolite . Just as it is impolite for me to ask you how you got your money , did you inherit a lot , what problems you have today , do you find reitred life a bit boring etc . There is a whole lot of great work being done in society on many fronts . We will definitely see a better world when we leave than the one we came into . So please stop this complaining

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 25 Sep 2015, 16:43

Dear Sri varsha,

I am not such a highly intellectual person as you are. Sri muni rao proposed a plan to host a workshop - an outreach to see how the new teaching methods to teach CM can be adopted by more number of teachers and also bring about awareness among parents and children.
This is not to take away your initiatives for furthering the cause of music.Hence the appeal was for contribution as per one's capacity and Rs 2000/- is not a sacrosanct number.In fact some time back funds were raised for Tambura artists and a number of tambura artists were rewarded.A number of Rasikas did contribute to the cause.
Similar is Sri Munirao's appeal and participation is voluntary.
There is no doubt each one may be doing his/her might for the cause of CM.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 25 Sep 2015, 17:31

I am not a music student (any longer) or a parent of young children. Nobody comes to me (In Chennai! It would be absurd!) to learn the basic strokes and lessons of mridangam, as some small children did, for a while, in London. Thus, frankly, and very simply: music teaching and learning is not really on my screen at all. Relevant or not , I also have no dis-satisfaction with how music is taught now. That is not at all to say that there may not be better ways.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 25 Sep 2015, 19:38

We have the expression in tamizh (I'm sure there are such similar ones in other languages):

viDAkakaNDarum koDAkkaNDarum...Ones who never leave you alone until you give and others who never budge in sparing even a penny. Well, it's not quite that extreme in this situation, I agree, but the more the pressure, the less the response.

'My cause's better than your cause', and focusing on showcasing the whole thing may also be irritants.

True, folks don't open their wallets readily for CM causes as they would for others (a religious one for instance). We all know that.

As Varsha points out, Akellaji has been recognized by the members here for a long while, and it's good that his work continues to be recognized. Good that you are showing so much interest in it, as you did for the tamburA artistes. What makes some of us feel uneasy about the whole thing is all the intensity and fanfare which surround these occasions. We are not modern day mega business sponsors--we are just concerned rasikAs who do their bit in supporting the arts.

Time after time, we see occasions when speeches eat up time and leave much less time for the ensuing concerts. More the hoopla, less the time for music and demonstrations

Quieter the event, better for music, I'm afraid. Not that I want to rain on your parade, but we are not political rallies which drum up enthusiasm to a frenzy. Let those who want to give, give. Bless them. It also does not mean that others are not giving whenever and wherever they can, in kind and of their time...

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 25 Sep 2015, 20:31

I for one am put off by the "My way is right, every other way is completely and utterly wrong" kind of aggressive approach.

pmantra · Post by **pmantra** » 26 Sep 2015, 22:17

MaheshS wrote:I for one am put off by the "My way is right, every other way is completely and utterly wrong" kind of aggressive approach.

No one knows how it all happend
I have a quotable text here.
(This is reportedly based on an actual experiment conducted in the U.K.)

Put eight monkeys in a room. In the middle of the room is a ladder, leading to a bunch of bananas hanging from a hook on the ceiling.

Each time a monkey tries to climb the ladder, all the monkeys are sprayed with ice water, which makes them miserable. Soon enough, whenever a monkey attempts to climb the ladder, all of the other monkeys, not wanting to be sprayed, set upon him and beat him up. Soon, none of the eight monkeys ever attempts to climb the ladder.

One of the original monkeys is then removed, and a new monkey is put in the room. Seeing the bananas and the ladder, he wonders why none of the other monkeys are doing the obvious. But undaunted, he immediately begins to climb the ladder.

All the other monkeys fall upon him and beat him silly. He has no idea why.

However, he no longer attempts to climb the ladder.

A second original monkey is removed and replaced. The newcomer again attempts to climb the ladder, but all the other monkeys hammer the crap out of him.

This includes the previous new monkey, who, grateful that he’s not on the receiving end this time, participates in the beating because all the other monkeys are doing it. However, he has no idea why he’s attacking the new monkey.

One by one, all the original monkeys are replaced. Eight new monkeys are now in the room. None of them have ever been sprayed by ice water. None of them attempt to climb the ladder. All of them will enthusiastically beat up any new monkey who tries, without having any idea why.

And that is how illogical traditions, customs and systems get established and followed ( all traditions, customs may not be illogical)

Same may be applied for music teaching too.

When a proof is available scientifically and a few good learned personalities are taking initiation to make music learning easily available to the aspirants why cannot we openly come forward? Let the search and research extract be unfirled. Without Sagara madhanam there was no amritam. And this gnyanamrita should be given to every cm aspirant.. Thats the intension of sri. Munirao garu
Pain of sri munirao garu does'nt show any selfishness. Noblemen do things differently. Rs2000 might be huge amount but may be lesser than going n spending it in a restaurent on weekend party.
Last time also i pledged 2000 but somehow it was arranged by some organisation.
Hope this time I can be the SQUIRREL which helpled ramasethu.
I pledge rs,2000.
Dr. Prasanna

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 27 Sep 2015, 01:05

pmantra wrote:
MaheshS wrote:I for one am put off by the "My way is right, every other way is completely and utterly wrong" kind of aggressive approach.
(This is reportedly based on an actual experiment conducted in the U.K.

Same may be applied for music teaching too.

When a proof is available scientifically and a few good learned personalities are taking initiation to make music learning easily available to the aspirants why cannot we openly come forward? Let the search and research extract be unfirled. Without Sagara madhanam there was no amritam. And this gnyanamrita should be given to every cm aspirant.. Thats the intension of sri. Munirao garu
Pain of sri munirao garu does'nt show any selfishness. Noblemen do things differently. Rs2000 might be huge amount but may be lesser than going n spending it in a restaurent on weekend party.
Last time also i pledged 2000 but somehow it was arranged by some organisation.
Hope this time I can be the SQUIRREL which helpled ramasethu.
I pledge rs,2000.
Dr. Prasanna

Your 8 monkey story is not by any research or experiment, there is no proof of that, you can use that as a "story" like Panchathantra and that's about it. The same story will be valid if you have a fire place there and the original monkey were conditioned not to touch that. This time your conclusion would be? Same methodology, different situation. You yourself get out of all the tricky questions by adding "All traditions, customs may not be illogical".

:: Sigh ::

Wouldn't it make things a lot beneficial for all, if you can only word it differently / diplomatically. You are practically alienating all the Gurus now,students of them and listners like me. By the looks of it, I am not the only one here on this forum. I am not questioning the method, I am not questioning the motive or the intention of Rao garu. I am questioning why you are rubbishing everything else that has / is happening? That is what fanatics do. I am right, you are wrong.

"New methodology uncovered from the XYZth century, try that and see the benefits" instead of "Every is doomed now beacuse everyone is wrong, all your x years of learning / practice is useless. Now unless you learn it in this way you are condemned for ever for cheating your future generations". Seriosuly, try the former once. You will get so much support from this forum it'll be something that benefits every person - teacher, student, performer and listner.

By the way, I am not talking about this thread, this appeal alone.

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 27 Sep 2015, 05:56

Since many centuries, in the absence of any standardization of the methods in leaning our music and also under the guise of the tradition all our music-teachers, without any exception, have been used to follow many illogicalities and irrationalities of their own in their teachings which are ‘utterly wrong and most harmful’ and which ultimately culminate the aspirant impotent in so many ways due to his/her perennial dependency upon the teacher in learning music.

When some time back I have held a workshop on ‘Swarakalpana & Ragalapana’ in the residence of a maestro in music in Chennai and when, at the first instance to find their suitability, I have given a simple rhythmical test to all his 14 disciples who are either A-grade artists or performers or both each and every candidate failed to fulfill it. This is neither to aggrandize my greatness nor to bring out the inefficiency of the maestro. As he is a professional-performer but not a professional-teacher he may not be aware of the intricacies of the methods of learning. But, very sadly, the ultimate sufferers are the ignorant aspirants.

In the age old traditional system of teaching the exceeding dependency upon the teacher has been helping only to elongate the ineffective process for many years learning a number of items but without any of the needed grammar by which very few of the highly intelligent aspirants only are benefited mainly depending upon their fortune and many others are compelled to end up as impotent musicians or inefficient teachers, in turn, helping to produce only impotents.

Unfortunately, no music-teacher on the globe ever comes out to discuss about any of these illogicalities or irrationalities lest it leads to spill out his/her own beans but unabatedly continues his/her most harmful acts while all other music-teachers also profusely praise his/her bravery thus conniving with each other in such harmful acts to the aspirants.

In such vicious circle of problems of the aspirants in learning our music, only by the grace of the Almighty, using the same items of our music and without any new inclusions, I could bring out a well standardized system in which the aspirant learns our music very quickly and efficiently working on his/her own independently for more than 99%. In this system the teacher doesn’t need to sing for more than 1% in any of the music-classes. Chi. Sow. Dr. Prasanna, one of my disciples working as music-teacher in Adavimallela, Khammam District, Telangana State, has very efficiently and honestly been following this system and producing highly talented kids even from the masses of which the details are available from ‘Swaeroes of Adavimallela excelling in music with AMS EASY METHODS’ (http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25807).

Shri Munirao, the son and disciple of the music veteran Late Sandhyavandanam Shrinivasa Rao, witnessed the mini-music-concert of the 11year old Chi. Shreenidhi, my disciple and grand-daughter of Shri Nageshwaran, who has been trained for less than one year under this unique system, in the Rasikas meet held in 2010 in Chennai, became impressed and he is the only person who has since been honestly trying to propagate this system for the benefit of our kids unlike any other musician or music-teacher. In this process he strived hard even to arrange my Lec-dems at IGNCA, Bengaluru on 8-8-2015 and at IIT, Chennai on 30-8-2015. Having attended to the music-classes weekly twice only for the last 18 months that too on telephone these school-going kids have learnt the items themselves basing upon the notated, audio and video-files provided by the teacher and amazingly demonstrated singing intricate Laya-exercises, Varnas @ 4-6-8 per beat, Kritis in Chapu-tala along with intricate Swarakalpana and brief Ragalapana which have been uploaded to youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw-sEZf ... SzsAXLhiQF & https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 10MUWEQ2cP).

While even small kids, trained in this unique and logical system of learning, are able to demonstrate very complex things, very sadly, each and every Tom & Dick readily comes out to find fault with the person who truly and truthfully tries to save the poor and ignorant aspirants from the harmful acts of the music-teachers but no person comes out to question any of the illogicalities or the irrationalities of any of these music-teachers who are unabatedly continuing their harmful acts all over the globe. Except doing this kind of mud-slinging against the noble and active persons who are striving hard to truly help the poor aspirants can’t these Toms and Dicks make any helpful acts to the poor aspirants?

Unfortunately, even from the so called Mecca of Carnatic Music, Chennai, not even a musician or music-teacher or music-institution or music-organisation comes forward to arrange for healthy discussions among the music-teachers in this respect to save the invaluable time, energy and money of the poor aspirants and their parents from the harmful acts of the music-teachers and music-institutions. Every where the persons having conservative and egoistic temperaments only are dominating without taking any proper action mainly making the poor aspirants as the scape-goats. In the same process all our kids have already lost the great treasure of modern-violin-techniques brought out by the Great Violin Trinity, MSG, Lalgudi and Chandrashekharan. This is our great tradition.

Since a long time I have been harping upon the harmful acts of the music-teachers and I shall be very happy if any efficient and honest music-teacher ably produces such talented kids in such a short time of learning music without singing for more than 1% in any of the music-classes. amsharma

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 27 Sep 2015, 06:24

....
What happened to the third trumpeter ?

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 27 Sep 2015, 07:21

pmantra wrote:I have a quotable text here. (This is reportedly based on an actual experiment conducted in the U.K.) ... ...

Any idea when and by whom this experiment was conducted ?

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 27 Sep 2015, 07:32

msakella wrote:When some time back I have held a workshop on ‘Swarakalpana & Ragalapana’ in the residence of a maestro in music in Chennai and when, at the first instance to find their suitability, I have given a simple rhythmical test to all his 14 disciples who are either A-grade artists or performers or both each and every candidate failed to fulfill it. This is neither to aggrandize my greatness nor to bring out the inefficiency of the maestro. As he is a professional-performer but not a professional-teacher he may not be aware of the intricacies of the methods of learning. But, very sadly, the ultimate sufferers are the ignorant aspirants.

Are you referring to the workshop on Swara Kalpana and Raga Alapana conducted in 2009 at the residence of Sri 'vidyaarthi' ?

pmantra · Post by **pmantra** » 27 Sep 2015, 09:19

Gurus?? Our system has more dronacharyas than sandeepas. There is a scaleable difference.
Truth is always bitter. I have been posting down trodden mass kids' performances who are neither inherited, nor exposed to music, never lived in musical atmosphere and developing in music within short time, no one is bothered to peep into but when i quoted a recent experiment of UK everyone came out My true intension is, I support and adopt the system which helps the aspirants to develop on their own .
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25807
its not hard to be a parasite. But individuality counts.
a proved fact.
Pmantra

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 27 Sep 2015, 09:25

pmantra wrote:... i quoted a recent experiment of UK ...

Thanks for mentioning that it was conducted recently.
I would like to learn more. By whom this experiment was conducted; and when ?

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 27 Sep 2015, 09:30

Our system has more dronacharyas than sandeepas

http://www.swarohan.com/about.html

sandeepas from villages walk 3-5 km everyday at 5am in the morning to take some of these classes . A member here has left the matter of donations to the website . drop in if you are somewhere near silk board bengaluru for a first hand account . niyer is a member here.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 28 Sep 2015, 14:10

Varsha Sir,

I am enjoying the pleasure of thinking and acting, never in pain.

Thanks for your replies. I have learnt and understood the state of your mind - expressions of 'writhing in pain'; impolite';'judgmental';'complain';'altruistic compassion';'not care'.

munirao2001

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 28 Sep 2015, 14:15

Nick.H.,
The AIM and Objective of this event is for adopting innovation in teaching methods and practices; standardization of teaching methods and practices; low cast mass education and appreciation for KM. The cause is growth and development of KM as an Classical Art Form.

munirao2001

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 28 Sep 2015, 14:26

Arasi Madam,

How did you read and found the contents and conclude in my appeals-'more the pressure'; my cause better than your cause'; intensity and fanfare' ?

munirao2001

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 28 Sep 2015, 14:32

Forumites,

To me the cause, spirit, action, service, potential matter not the individual(s) and their communications. Understanding would be at its best if we take cognizance of the environment, circumstances and experiences in the issue of 'para mata khandana'.

munirao2001

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 28 Sep 2015, 14:34

Forunmites,

This brings end to this thread of appeal.

munirao2001

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 29 Sep 2015, 09:53

msakella wrote:When some time back I have held a workshop on ‘Swarakalpana & Ragalapana’ in the residence of a maestro in music in Chennai and when, at the first instance to find their suitability, I have given a simple rhythmical test to all his 14 disciples who are either A-grade artists or performers or both each and every candidate failed to fulfill it. This is neither to aggrandize my greatness nor to bring out the inefficiency of the maestro. As he is a professional-performer but not a professional-teacher he may not be aware of the intricacies of the methods of learning. But, very sadly, the ultimate sufferers are the ignorant aspirants.

Are you referring to the workshop on Swara Kalpana and Raga Alapana so graciously hosted by Sri Neyveli Santanagopalan in 2009 at his Ramapuram residence?

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 06 Oct 2015, 07:51

Even though I, as a co-artist, did not intend to reveal his identity, I do not understand why you are so graciously trying to belittle him. amsharma

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 06 Oct 2015, 09:34

msakella wrote:... inefficiency of the maestro ...

Who is trying to belittle / scorn ?
Some soul searching may be of help.

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 06 Oct 2015, 12:42

Soul searching works to the people who have a soul, my dear. amsharma

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 06 Oct 2015, 18:49

This forum is called Rasikas. Not teachers. Not students. Not performers. Rasikas. We are all rasikas,we come here to share our knowledge, what ever we have! We have our own preferences, we have our own prejudices, but all within the scope of a rasika. You sir, have been tolerated here too long. Can you name 2 sishyas of yours who have accompanied leading artists so we can hear and judge for ourselves? Playing a varnam is 20 speeds etc etc is all good for the student, but not for the rasika.

Can you tell me if MSG or Lalgudi learnt the way you are now telling other people to? Why do you assume you know more than anyone else and considering you or your sishyas have not done anything noteworthy? I am including you, as you keep mentioning that only after you retired by the grace of god,his son and the holy ghost, you found this new method blah blah blah. No need for *me* to repeat it all again

If you had written Rama Jayam for the amount of posts you've made writing the same thing again and again and again you'd have got more punniyam. You are nothing but a fanatical short sighted evangelist who refuses to see anything other than your own obsession, and you blame us with the same thing. :: sigh ::

I quote the enlightened Shankara to you - Nahi nahi rakshati dukrijnkarane. Tell all your sishyas to sit down and say Govinda.

pmantra · Post by **pmantra** » 06 Oct 2015, 19:40

MaheshS wrote:This forum is called Rasikas. Not teachers. Not students. Not performers. Rasikas. We are all rasikas,we come here to share our knowledge, what ever we have!

Can you tell me if MSG or Lalgudi learnt the way you are now telling other people to? Why do you assume you know more than anyone else and considering you or your sishyas have not done anything noteworthy?

I quote the enlightened Shankara to you - Nahi nahi rakshati dukrijnkarane. Tell all your sishyas to sit down and say Govinda.

So this forum is neither of teachers nor of students and not even of performers. RASIKAS are beyond everyone?!!. And that is why they are supporting every noble cause? They share the knowledge they have. Knowledge is the asset of ONLY rasikas!! If this forum does not help teachers,aspirants,and performers, whom do it help? May I know your technical terminology meaning of RASIKAS?
Every education is a pedagogy and search and research will definately provide a broad scope for conservation and preservation of music to the next generations.
Msg never used to take violin without METRONOME. Who knows what all the legends followed? systematisation was never unfolded. Every lock is manufactured with a KEY. But what if key is thrown into ganges sealing all the musical treasure in dark?
Regarding sishyas, 800+ videos are not enough? These kids never play/ sing/ learn without METRONOME while many other so called musicians run away from metronome. If the ABILITY is not applauded, what is the meaning of being RASIKAS? Its in 1988 my brother chi. MVN Prasad who is a disciple of sri Ams garu accompanied mastreo sri. Chitraveena ravikiran garu on voilin in sica concert at NIT warangal. And my brother's age was only 16 at that time. I have many more references. But arguing here is mere waste.
Many more sishyas are in this yagnam. We are here to conserve and preserve quality karnatic music to the generations ahead keeping up the INDIVIDUALITY in the form of manodharma amongst the aspirants in much more lesser time.
GOVINDA NAMA SMARANAM will ofcourse strengthen us. We are pleased much for your kind suggession. Thank your highness maheshji.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 06 Oct 2015, 19:54

MaheshS wrote:This forum is called Rasikas. Not teachers. Not students. Not performers. Rasikas.

We are all rasikas, we come here to share our knowledge, what ever we have! We have our own preferences, we have our own prejudices, but all within the scope of a rasika.

You sir, have been tolerated here too long.

Why do you assume you know more than anyone else and considering you or your sishyas have not done anything noteworthy? I am including you, as you keep mentioning that only after you retired by the grace of god, his son and the holy ghost, you found this new method blah blah blah.

You are nothing but a fanatical short sighted evangelist who refuses to see anything other than your own obsession, and you blame us with the same thing. :: sigh ::

pmantra · Post by **pmantra** » 06 Oct 2015, 20:03

I bow from the bottom of my heart to sri munirao garu who is here for the noble cause. He is a man of deeds Supporting any system ( not any person) that helps the cm aspirants to flourish with individuality. One amongst the finger countables of his kind

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 06 Oct 2015, 20:32

This forum is being used extensively by a Professional Teacher for free advertising.
By calling all other Teachers again and again as 'Cheaters', he has succeeded in driving away from this Forum a number of Carnatic Musicians / Teachers.

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 06 Oct 2015, 20:48

it is okay to advertise, self promo etc, but it is important to refrain from blaming others.. i think, this is where most of us have issues !!

ramanujan · Post by **ramanujan** » 06 Oct 2015, 20:54

msakella wrote:
When some time back I have held a workshop on ‘Swarakalpana & Ragalapana’ in the residence of a maestro in music in Chennai and when, at the first instance to find their suitability, I have given a simple rhythmical test to all his 14 disciples who are either A-grade artists or performers or both each and every candidate failed to fulfill it. This is neither to aggrandize my greatness nor to bring out the inefficiency of the maestro. As he is a professional-performer but not a professional-teacher he may not be aware of the intricacies of the methods of learning. But, very sadly, the ultimate sufferers are the ignorant aspirants.

The comment by msakella on 6th Mar 2009. Sir – You had praised the workshop. Now after 6 years you criticise.
“It is a wonderful experience to conduct such a workshop before the teacher, being a Vidwan himself, along with his students. Most surprisingly every one among them had responded with equal inquisitiveness, enthusiasm and efficiency. All the arrangements are also made very homely and, in fact, it became difficult to move back from that place. I felt extremely happy about the outcome of it.”

msakella wrote: In the age old traditional system of teaching the exceeding dependency upon the teacher has been helping only to elongate the ineffective process for many years learning a number of items but without any of the needed grammar by which very few of the highly intelligent aspirants only are benefited mainly depending upon their fortune and many others are compelled to end up as impotent musicians or inefficient teachers, in turn, helping to produce only impotents. Unfortunately, no music-teacher on the globe ever comes out to discuss about any of these illogicalities or irrationalities lest it leads to spill out his/her own beans but unabatedly continues his/her most harmful acts while all other music-teachers also profusely praise his/her bravery thus conniving with each other in such harmful acts to the aspirants.

Sir, let us see the effect of these harmful methods used by the modern day inefficient Gurus and the consequences they have produced
P S Narayanaswamy – Disciples – Ranjani Gayathri, Abhishek Raghuram, Bharat Sunder and many other
Chitravina Ravikiran - Disciples – Savitha Narasimhan, Akkarai Subbulakshmi, Bhargavi Balasunramaniam and many nore
Sanjay Subrahmanyan – Disciples - Sandeep Narayan, Swarna Rethas, Prasanna Venkataraman and many more
T M Krishna – Disciples - G Ravi Kiran, Vignesh Ishwar and many more
Delhi Sunderrajan – Disciple – Ramakrishna Murthy

msakella wrote: Shri Munirao, the son and disciple of the music veteran Late Sandhyavandanam Shrinivasa Rao, witnessed the mini-music-concert of the 11year old Chi. Shreenidhi, my disciple and grand-daughter of Shri Nageshwaran, who has been trained for less than one year under this unique system, in the Rasikas meet held in 2010 in Chennai, became impressed and he is the only person who has since been honestly trying to propagate this system for the benefit of our kids unlike any other musician or music-teacher.

Sir – With due respect, quick learning alone is not important. Music is for the long term and should be sustainable.

msakella wrote: While even small kids, trained in this unique and logical system of learning, are able to demonstrate very complex things, very sadly, each and every Tom & Dick readily comes out to find fault with the person who truly and truthfully tries to save the poor and ignorant aspirants from the harmful acts of the music-teachers but no person comes out to question any of the illogicalities or the irrationalities of any of these music-teachers who are unabatedly continuing their harmful acts all over the globe. Except doing this kind of mud-slinging against the noble and active persons who are striving hard to truly help the poor aspirants can’t these Toms and Dicks make any helpful acts to the poor aspirants?

Sir – To the credit of other gurus no music teacher has ever abused you on this forum or otherwise. We all know who is abusing other Gurus and teaching methods.

msakella wrote: Every where the persons having conservative and egoistic temperaments only are dominating without taking any proper action mainly making the poor aspirants as the scape-goats. In the same process all our kids have already lost the great treasure of modern-violin-techniques brought out by the Great Violin Trinity, MSG, Lalgudi and Chandrashekharan. This is our great tradition.

This is because of lack of public support for instrumental music, especially solo kutcheris. It is no surprise that Ranjani Gayathri, Akkarai Sisters and Amritha Murali who started off as violinists have moved to vocal music. Veena and Nadaswaram concerts too are suffering due to lack of public support.

msakella wrote: Since a long time I have been harping upon the harmful acts of the music-teachers and I shall be very happy if any efficient and honest music-teacher ably produces such talented kids in such a short time of learning music without singing for more than 1% in any of the music-classes. amsharma

Sir - the boundaries you have drawn around yourself are unnecessary. Children cannot be generalised. Some pick up faster than others. As for the guru singing for not more than 1%, I wonder what purpose it serves.

pmantra · Post by **pmantra** » 06 Oct 2015, 21:28

munirao2001 wrote:I am appealing to the global members of rasikas.org to join me in the cause of Karnataka Sangeetham for Masses-Music Education Series, out reach program targeting school children in South India in the first phase and rest of India in the second phase.

Apex body for various individual organizations-NGO's working in music education to be created for standardization of systems and methods, practices and action plans. Artists and rasikas rendering voluntary services in successful implementation of the Apex body action plans. I desire and suggest the leadership of Sri Chitraveena Ravikiran and his team members chosen and residing in South India- Chennai, Coimbatore, Trichy/Madurai-all in Tamizh Nadu; Hyderabad,Visakapatnam, Vijayawada/Tirupathi-all in Andhra Pradesh and Telengana; Bengaluru, Mysuru and Mangalore all in Karnataka; Palghat, Trissur/Cochin and Trivandrum-all in Kerala; Pondichery.

As part of this initiative, One Day Event with programs- Lecture & Demonstrations, Panel Discussions, Experts Panel Discussions, with AIM of standardization of karnataka Sangeetham music education integrating the innovative teaching techniques and OBJECTIVE for preparing and recommending the Syllabus,systems and methods for teaching school children-direct and distance education is to be planned and conducted.

To meet the estimated expenditure for the One Day Event, please pledge your contribution with a minimum of INR 2,000/-per member. This appeal will be open from 4th of September To 30th of September, 2015. If the pledges confirm the arrangement for funds management further actions will be taken. The funds are to be transferred to the NGO volunteering and selected.

Thanking You all in anticipation

Sandhyavandanam Madhva Muni Rao (munirao2001)
E-Mail:munirao2001@hotmail.com.

Prime need!! Proper curriculum for music in schools.

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 06 Oct 2015, 21:35

Prime need indeed, but I am objecting the fact that the curriculum *needs* to be the one YOU say as opposed to proven methods. I repeat, how many people are performing in the December series this year? Name the ones who belong to your school of learning.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 06 Oct 2015, 22:26

Not that we rasikAs do not respect dedicated teachers, but MaheshS has brought out the restlessness resulting from the intensity of propagating the method here at Rasikas.org.

Many years ago, I did witness Akellagaru's zeal and did hear the students trained by him. I have also heard Srinidhi, the very talented grand daughter of Nageswaran.

However, I cannot deny that over the years, his evangelical pitch has reached fire and brimstone. With deference to an elder (several of us are elders on Rasikas), we did not voice our discontent in a strong manner (Bala, you and Nick were perhaps the only ones who tried!). All that we could do was simply skip through such very long posts and grin and bear with them.

The key irritant is the putting down of other musicians--especially those who are mighty talented themselves and bring results in training numerous talented youngsters. And, they haven't lashed back either...

Missionary zeal is fine, but not at the cost of belittling others...

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 07 Oct 2015, 07:28

Arasi,
Zeal is fine but not 'missionary zeal' because the latter arises from one's conviction that others need to be reformed. Even the word 'zealot' has negative connotation - sorry for trying to amplify your English.

Somehow I am very unhappy about the whole thing - particularly after seeing the participants on either side of the divide. I have a lurking fear that CM or KM - whatever it is - seem to be getting further fragmented and consequent rivalries. I do not know as to how much such discussions have percolated down to senior practitioners of CM or KM.

Somehow, things are not going in the positive direction. Am I a pessimist? - perhaps.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 07 Oct 2015, 08:15

VG,
Yes, zen is more like it, agreed

'Missionary zeal', I didn't mean it in the 'grab the masses and convert them' sense of the expression, but as someone with zeal to accomplish a mission.

Zen and this? Can't think of a more opposing word, given the circumstances

This is more like the most aggressive marketing campaign for a yOgA center (with a large dose of the sanctity of CM/KM thrown in).

Yes, as a sensible rasikA said previously, we are rasikAs first and foremost, willing to share music, to learn from each other. We share our musical experience with others. We also have the chance to learn from some among us who happen to know a lot about music.

Exchanging ideas and learning from each other is the thing. What great teachers there are too, without any ceremony or acrimony, young, old, middle-aged!

I am disenchanted too, the way causes are carried too far, and as a result, they aren't at all worth our while.

How can oldsters expect any respect from the younger ones, if we ourselves get cantankerous?

Enough said, before my word count beats that of the lengthy posters.

For now, it's comforting to be part of the Literature threads, exchanging poems!

May peace prevail!

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 07 Oct 2015, 11:19

This is not yet another attempt at appeal, as the appeal is withdrawn. I am attempting to bring the clarity.

1. The event with program is planned primarily for discussions on the innovative techniques in teaching methods-Sri Chitraveena Narasimhan; Sri Akella Mallikarjuna Sharma; Institutions-Academic; Revision and Standardization of teaching methods and systems to universalize; low cost/cost effective direct and distance education enabling fast track teaching and learning with customization for various levels of requirements of aspirants and stake holders.

2. Cause being Noble, total focus must be on the goal and objective with equanimity state of mind, sincere and humble relentless pursuit and selfless efforts. Efficient planning and execution with preventive and corrective actions for distractions and loss of quality.

3. The cause demands Team effort with Leadership. Cause and Event has to achieve highest public attention to receive support to conduct and implement the plans. Resources required are very substantial-human and financial. High quality work and results attract and will receive required contributions and support. The challenge is to make it happen and to make it known.

4. All persons taking interest and deriving pleasure out of art form are rasikas not excluding its practitioners. Art and its practitioners deserve unstinting support free from pride, prejudice and selfless for all the good initiatives furthering the cause of art, its growth and development.

munirao2001

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 08 Oct 2015, 11:58

As much as I appreciate your research and initiatives and intentions, I think you all forget that it's not what you say but how you say that makes all the difference - 93% of all communication is the how, not the what. The gulf between knowing you in person vs your online image is a more like a grand canyon as rasikas who know each other in person have told me. The written word has much more seriousness than the spoken word and some here are totally not aware of how they appear to others online or how much they themselves are becoming an obstacle to their own intentions. What is the point of mass outreach when you are driving away all those who would benefit by these initiatives?

Also I should point out, with due deference to the difference between my age and all of your ages, and the fact that the internet is quite a new thing to many of you, that the years are noticeably taking a toll on your writing as one's faculties decline and it is showing. This may not be appreciated or even understood by those who do not know you in person. In fact for those of you who are complaining, this is actually the real cause of the rather caustic nature of many of these posts, not because of any evangelical above it all whatever. Some of us understand and don't mind, we see only your contribution. Others don't.

Rather than hurting your causes online, I kindly suggest you stick to face to face interactions and personal talks where people will know the person and not the handle. Please don't take this as something disrespectful, but your online efforts need someone younger and in their prime who can show the merit of your methods without any of all the other unnecessary statements that don't do anything to help us kids and fellow rasikas - it is causing a loss of respect which I can dismiss as old age, but others may not understand. These initiatives will succeed simply on their own merit, when they stick to music alone and nothing else.

However if this polemic kind of writing continues, I will have to be more concise and say, "Seriously get a young and capable PR manager to speak for you! You yourself stay off the net if age makes it too hard." For the record, please know that I have benefited very greatly by these methods and it is sad, even painful to see so many people losing the opportunity due to the decline that comes with age.

Purist · Post by **Purist** » 09 Oct 2015, 11:36

Well articulated Srinath. Hope it gets the desired effect.

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 09 Oct 2015, 14:40

Thanks a lot, dear SrinathK, for your timely advice. I shall certainly try to follow it hereafter. amsharma

pperumal · Post by **pperumal** » 14 Oct 2015, 23:35

No offence folks.
To me this is MUSIC:
https://youtu.be/HT0J-msnGjg
No amount of systemization or shortcuts will get you there.
Talent, hard work, exposure to maestros....is the only rajamargam!!!

Regards,
PP.

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 15 Oct 2015, 03:40

Even in this modern age conservatives can as well go to Varanasi by foot and enjoy as they like. amsharma