See http://www.hindu.com/ms/2006/12/01/stor ... 130200.htm, where TNS says "I am fortunate to have seen some of the real vidwans in my youth."
That is an interesting remark, though it may not be acceptable to all. Are there no real vidwans left? Are all performers vidwans? What do you think?
Who are real vidwans?
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vasanthakokilam
- Posts: 10958
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
I had to look it up chalanata. http://www.livewithyoga.net/nishkamya_karma_yoga.htm
I am not sure if you will find too many fitting that definition of a real vidwan. Forget a real vidwan, how about a real accountant, real software engineer, real call center worker? ( sorry for the digression ).
I am not sure if you will find too many fitting that definition of a real vidwan. Forget a real vidwan, how about a real accountant, real software engineer, real call center worker? ( sorry for the digression ).
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coolkarni
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mridhangam
- Posts: 981
- Joined: 04 Dec 2006, 13:56
vow what a reference Vasantakokilam. it was so nice to read the article on Nishkamya Karma yoga. being a performer it is the first and foremost for me to be a rasika of the nuances of music that every musician produce. that enhances my performances and also allows me to listen to niceties of music. may be that is the reason for my intentional pauses in the concert while accompanying artistes. first learning and then enjoying and then if God Willing a Good Artiste. (Arasi is right here)
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coolkarni
Who is a real Vidwan ?
I think what TNS is referring to here is
an artist who is totally consumed by the passion to his art.
Like the absent minded Professor who forgets to wear one of his socks and becomes a laughing stock in the class .
Or like My grand Uncle (he set up the first Agricultural University in Naintal decades ago ) who asked the person sitting next to him in his flight -
You seem to be an important person -Who are you ?
Came the astonished reply - You dont know me> - I am Yousuf Khan - a hindi movie actor - they also call me Dilip Kumar.
And my grand Uncle would go on to explain to my agriculturist Mama - how he saw changes in the crop patterns over the past two years,as he travelled by train , over long distances -on the way to our native place .
the new areas brought under irrigation , the preference for commercial crops over ...
That was a Vidwan who did not know about the existence of a Dilip Kumar !!
True ,with the general improvements in Standards of Living , we cannot fall back on the classical image of a penniless artist who gave everything to his art , but never cared where his next meal came from.
So the reference to material wealth has to be seen in the context of the rare occasions that may be provided to any of us -where we can get a peep into the workings of their mind.
One lovely instance comes to mind.
My uncle had started a small sabha in my native place - and after featuring several local stars , he scheduled a program of Basavraj Rajguru .
On the morning of the program , we were told that the artist had started late from Bombay (where he had gone for a recording session) and would be in my town just in time.
His family at Dharwar also told us that they may convince him to get down at Dharwar ( my town is two hours further down )
and cancel his program.
So as the train steamed in at our station , we were very relieved to see the full party alight.
But my uncle was still a worried man.
Of the Rs 750 that we had promised the party we had mustered only 480 only through ticket sales and had no way of bridging the gap.
After the Dinner , the party settled down to a bit of practice at 8 pm or so.The mood was great in there.The tabalji was one Bendigeri , a fine player in his time but who looked a a frail old man now.Time had taken toll of his strength and his hands looked so thin and wasted.But Rajguru was in great spirits.He was singing with him after a long long time and was totally focussed - setting up the sruthi , laughing , joking - the mood in that dimly lit room was electric.
And then my uncle interrupted him to say that he was not able to pay the full sum and.... he was getting so miserable.
Rajguru who was having a hearty time stopped in his tracks only for a microsecond.
Hangenree .. Aathu .. avaribbarige kodoshtu ideyalla- saree hoythu.Nangenu beda .Mikkiddannu bendigeri avarige kodree.
( Is that so .Thats Ok.Dont pay me anything . pay the others.And what is leftover , pay that also to Bendigere)
As a young kid I cannot forget the twinkle in the tabaljis eyes at that moment.Was it gratitude ?
Was it camaredirie ?
Was it something else only an artist who has gone through the struggle understands ?
Was it something only a person who has seen better days can understand ?
In a flash , I could see their value systems.They would not let such a mundane thing as performance fees get in the way of a wonderful night!
Rajguru went on to ask my uncle - pointing to me - so it is malkauns that this kid wants,is it.I will sing it for him...
Call them Vidwans or by any other name .
I prefer my Dads imagery
He would always say that these are Angels who descend on earth to give us an idea of Heaven!!
http://www.rogepost.com/n/3444520380
Here is a track of Rajguru ,that a member here located for me recently after decades of searching.
I think what TNS is referring to here is
an artist who is totally consumed by the passion to his art.
Like the absent minded Professor who forgets to wear one of his socks and becomes a laughing stock in the class .
Or like My grand Uncle (he set up the first Agricultural University in Naintal decades ago ) who asked the person sitting next to him in his flight -
You seem to be an important person -Who are you ?
Came the astonished reply - You dont know me> - I am Yousuf Khan - a hindi movie actor - they also call me Dilip Kumar.
And my grand Uncle would go on to explain to my agriculturist Mama - how he saw changes in the crop patterns over the past two years,as he travelled by train , over long distances -on the way to our native place .
the new areas brought under irrigation , the preference for commercial crops over ...
That was a Vidwan who did not know about the existence of a Dilip Kumar !!
True ,with the general improvements in Standards of Living , we cannot fall back on the classical image of a penniless artist who gave everything to his art , but never cared where his next meal came from.
So the reference to material wealth has to be seen in the context of the rare occasions that may be provided to any of us -where we can get a peep into the workings of their mind.
One lovely instance comes to mind.
My uncle had started a small sabha in my native place - and after featuring several local stars , he scheduled a program of Basavraj Rajguru .
On the morning of the program , we were told that the artist had started late from Bombay (where he had gone for a recording session) and would be in my town just in time.
His family at Dharwar also told us that they may convince him to get down at Dharwar ( my town is two hours further down )
and cancel his program.
So as the train steamed in at our station , we were very relieved to see the full party alight.
But my uncle was still a worried man.
Of the Rs 750 that we had promised the party we had mustered only 480 only through ticket sales and had no way of bridging the gap.
After the Dinner , the party settled down to a bit of practice at 8 pm or so.The mood was great in there.The tabalji was one Bendigeri , a fine player in his time but who looked a a frail old man now.Time had taken toll of his strength and his hands looked so thin and wasted.But Rajguru was in great spirits.He was singing with him after a long long time and was totally focussed - setting up the sruthi , laughing , joking - the mood in that dimly lit room was electric.
And then my uncle interrupted him to say that he was not able to pay the full sum and.... he was getting so miserable.
Rajguru who was having a hearty time stopped in his tracks only for a microsecond.
Hangenree .. Aathu .. avaribbarige kodoshtu ideyalla- saree hoythu.Nangenu beda .Mikkiddannu bendigeri avarige kodree.
( Is that so .Thats Ok.Dont pay me anything . pay the others.And what is leftover , pay that also to Bendigere)
As a young kid I cannot forget the twinkle in the tabaljis eyes at that moment.Was it gratitude ?
Was it camaredirie ?
Was it something else only an artist who has gone through the struggle understands ?
Was it something only a person who has seen better days can understand ?
In a flash , I could see their value systems.They would not let such a mundane thing as performance fees get in the way of a wonderful night!
Rajguru went on to ask my uncle - pointing to me - so it is malkauns that this kid wants,is it.I will sing it for him...
Call them Vidwans or by any other name .
I prefer my Dads imagery
He would always say that these are Angels who descend on earth to give us an idea of Heaven!!
http://www.rogepost.com/n/3444520380
Here is a track of Rajguru ,that a member here located for me recently after decades of searching.
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ninjathegreat
- Posts: 301
- Joined: 25 Oct 2005, 22:07
I think by "vidwan" TNS refers to people who sing becasue they love to sing, not because they are paid for it. I think it is very difficult to find performers today who will sing without being paid beforehand.
How long is it since you have seen a "famous" artiste singing for the sake of devotion in a temple, and not for money? Of course, there are such people, but I think that TNS was referring to the fact that in the past, that used to be the norm rather than the exception.
Oh yes, coolji made a comment about the atmosphere. nowadays, it is too professional - there is absolutely no interaction between the audience and the performer. Of course, my barometers for the past are the recordings, which show interaction between performers and between the audience and the performers. One only needs to listen to Madurai Somu or Semmangudi or Mani Iyer or Chembai to see this.
Good post, coolji.
How long is it since you have seen a "famous" artiste singing for the sake of devotion in a temple, and not for money? Of course, there are such people, but I think that TNS was referring to the fact that in the past, that used to be the norm rather than the exception.
Oh yes, coolji made a comment about the atmosphere. nowadays, it is too professional - there is absolutely no interaction between the audience and the performer. Of course, my barometers for the past are the recordings, which show interaction between performers and between the audience and the performers. One only needs to listen to Madurai Somu or Semmangudi or Mani Iyer or Chembai to see this.
Good post, coolji.
Last edited by ninjathegreat on 12 Dec 2006, 20:26, edited 1 time in total.
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coolkarni
Here is a bouquet of clips - a peek into the mind of another Vidwan.
http://www.rogepost.com/n/2728601146
Answering a Question, Amir Khan remarks - Music has become an integral part of me.If I cannot sing , I see no point in Living.
http://www.rogepost.com/n/7752801666
Here His Wife Complains
Sometimes he is so happy and then so unhappy .When asked he just says - after all I too am a human being-
For Five years now I have been so unhappy , And all of a sudden he takes so much care of me-more than My parents ever did-
http://www.rogepost.com/n/8472470210
Here he says - True a lot of people sing these days.But in the absence of a poetic sense , or an emotion.. and the camera pans to his son blissfully asleep under the tanpura.
http://www.rogepost.com/n/0408278356
The Wife complains of a nation that has ignored her husband.What is that he received ? Just a return for the physical effort he put in ?
Amir Khan interrupts and quotes a flower
which when asked
"How does it feel to smile only once in your lifetime before you wither away"
Replies
"How many are those who are not fortunate even to have that one smile too !
And at the right time."
So I am a contented man .I expect nothing more...
http://www.rogepost.com/n/9885446103
This last clip is a fine statement - I could kiss the ground on which the Director of this Documentary , stood.
Amir Khan is obviously discussing a troublesome financial matter with his wife and she is heard retorting -
"You dont care for me."
Amir Khan tries to pacify -
"No Dear I care for you too ".
Asks the wife in a stinging manner , What do you mean by
"You Too "--
"Who else is involved here ?
And the camera gives the answer ... See it for yourself . I feel myself melting , everytime I see this.
A Vidwan Musician existing for the sake of a tearful rasika..
A Vidwan Director
A Vidwan Cameraman..
Vidwans Vidwans Everywhere.....
http://www.rogepost.com/n/2728601146
Answering a Question, Amir Khan remarks - Music has become an integral part of me.If I cannot sing , I see no point in Living.
http://www.rogepost.com/n/7752801666
Here His Wife Complains
Sometimes he is so happy and then so unhappy .When asked he just says - after all I too am a human being-
For Five years now I have been so unhappy , And all of a sudden he takes so much care of me-more than My parents ever did-
http://www.rogepost.com/n/8472470210
Here he says - True a lot of people sing these days.But in the absence of a poetic sense , or an emotion.. and the camera pans to his son blissfully asleep under the tanpura.
http://www.rogepost.com/n/0408278356
The Wife complains of a nation that has ignored her husband.What is that he received ? Just a return for the physical effort he put in ?
Amir Khan interrupts and quotes a flower
which when asked
"How does it feel to smile only once in your lifetime before you wither away"
Replies
"How many are those who are not fortunate even to have that one smile too !
And at the right time."
So I am a contented man .I expect nothing more...
http://www.rogepost.com/n/9885446103
This last clip is a fine statement - I could kiss the ground on which the Director of this Documentary , stood.
Amir Khan is obviously discussing a troublesome financial matter with his wife and she is heard retorting -
"You dont care for me."
Amir Khan tries to pacify -
"No Dear I care for you too ".
Asks the wife in a stinging manner , What do you mean by
"You Too "--
"Who else is involved here ?
And the camera gives the answer ... See it for yourself . I feel myself melting , everytime I see this.
A Vidwan Musician existing for the sake of a tearful rasika..
A Vidwan Director
A Vidwan Cameraman..
Vidwans Vidwans Everywhere.....
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coolkarni
-
chalanata
- Posts: 603
- Joined: 06 Feb 2010, 15:55
coolji,
i'm slowly beginning to see the poet and rasika in you. your expression is woven with a tone of irony and philosophy and which probably has made you a great rasika. i'm unable to resist these words.
vasanthakokilam
a real call center guy or accounts man does not really do what he likes to do for eking out a living. the artist has the advantage of making money by doing what he enjoys doing. this particular trait has really made money secondary for artists and the satisfaction they derive mainly is out of their performance and money is only a by product. this has been very beautifully brought out by coolji and this only i call as 'nishkamya karma'.
i'm slowly beginning to see the poet and rasika in you. your expression is woven with a tone of irony and philosophy and which probably has made you a great rasika. i'm unable to resist these words.
vasanthakokilam
a real call center guy or accounts man does not really do what he likes to do for eking out a living. the artist has the advantage of making money by doing what he enjoys doing. this particular trait has really made money secondary for artists and the satisfaction they derive mainly is out of their performance and money is only a by product. this has been very beautifully brought out by coolji and this only i call as 'nishkamya karma'.
Last edited by chalanata on 14 Dec 2006, 19:45, edited 1 time in total.
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coolkarni
chalanata
Irony ??
Man it is AGONY !
So much goes in through my ears and I cannot sing a single line without startling the neighbours dog.
I could weep tears of Blood.
All those of you who have some talent , even if it is an iota.
Dont let it go waste.
PLEASE !!
So what else Can I do ?
I See it through a different Lens ..
Irony ??
Man it is AGONY !
So much goes in through my ears and I cannot sing a single line without startling the neighbours dog.
I could weep tears of Blood.
All those of you who have some talent , even if it is an iota.
Dont let it go waste.
PLEASE !!
So what else Can I do ?
I See it through a different Lens ..