PSN Effect?

[hema]

I attended Aishwarya's concert at SPSS today. She sang PREDICTABLY.

I attended Bharath Sundar also a few days ago. Again sang PREDICTABLY.

A formula for SUCCESS?

[pattamaa]

what did you PREDICT ?

[Meera]

Almost all artists are predictable.I hardly go to concerts now a days since I know how they would have sung .there are exceptions like sandeep narayanan though bereft of finees.

[pattamaa]

Almost all artists are predictable.I hardly go to concerts now a days since I know how they would have sung .there are exceptions like sandeep narayanan though bereft of finees.

Wow ! what a statement.... can you please predict what Baby Sreeram would sing in music academy today? Let's assume she is singing shankarabharanam, please send me notation for raga alapana !!

[hema]

I am not referring to the "list."

I am referring to the way the "raagam/niraval/svaram" are sung. There is a typical "Chennai way." Some of the people
from Kerala/Karnataka are refreshingly different. Vidya used to be like that. She sang reasonably well -- but there
is n't something that I can pin as "hers alone." This was true of Bharath too. He has a beautiful voice and on a good
can be beat any body. He indulged quite a bit in "dB exercises -- quite common amongst the young male singers today."

[nanosadagopan]

I am referring to the way the "raagam/niraval/svaram" are sung. There is a typical "Chennai way."

I too find it that way - the circus sort of singing - creating a climactic neraval or swaram at the end and all. Never knew it was PSN (PS Narayanaswamy?) style...

[Meera]

Yes I too mentioned that hema has expressed .

[grsastrigal]

I plan to go to Kunnakudy bAlamuralikrishna's concert today at MA ? Can I expect a "Predictable" concert ?

[devan]

You can

[sureshvv]

I am not referring to the "list."

I am referring to the way the "raagam/niraval/svaram" are sung. There is a typical "Chennai way."

I think you are referring to performance oriented or "concertish" music. This is the way to gain audience & popularity.

[Meera]

When we say predictable ,that means a hackneyed performance with lack of manodharmam.for a discerning listener it will be unpalatable. Moreover any joy derived from the external world by the five senses tends to become unjoyful one day.no need to worry as this may be because you are entering into the wisdom zone.

[ram1999]

What is the basis that you are claiming to be a discerning listener ??

[thenjasatta]

Sweeping generalization is never good. There are always exceptions. I make the same observation regarding most PSN students. They have a very predictable way of delivering concerts. The positive feedback is that most of them are very strong layam wise. This is the case with kunnakudi BMK or a Bharat Sundar, etc. They have very little to offer when it comes to bhava oriented music. They know to impress with speed. They also have this track record of handling the minimum amount of rakthi ragas for elaboration. This is because a scalar raga like a lathangi or a panthuvarali or a simmhendramadhyamam or a sarasangi offers enough scope for impressing with speed. Rakthi ragas dont work that way. Therefore, you will see them very rarely handle rakthi ragas. The exceptions in the PSN school are mostly women artists. For example, Amritha Murali brings a lot of rakthi ragas to the fore. But this is again because she had majority of her tutelage under Rama Ravi and Rukmini. Personally, a Kunnakudi BMK or Bharat Sundar kind of music has never appealed to me. It is all about the laya prowess and speed. Substance is lacking. I prefer the Amrutha Venkateshs and Ramakrishnan Murthys. I am content !

[sureshvv]

I don't think it is fair to transfer the responsibility to the Guru. Each artiste has their strengths, preferences and comfort zones. Guru can teach aesthetics and help in fine tuning. But a lot of the technique has already been mastered by this time.

[pperumal]

thenjasatta - i am with you completely.
same with my preference too.
my motivation to get into a concert hall (despite my multiple health conditions) is to feel that fleeting moment of bliss and serenity.
that's what, personally, I look for in a concert and the music of artists like amritha murali appeal to me for that reason.

- PP.

[sureshvv]

They also have this track record of handling the minimum amount of rakthi ragas for elaboration. This is because a scalar raga like a lathangi or a panthuvarali or a simmhendramadhyamam or a sarasangi offers enough scope for impressing with speed. Rakthi ragas dont work that way. Therefore, you will see them very rarely handle rakthi ragas.

Have to dispute you on this. What are these rakthi ragas that are not being handled? I feel that if you analyzed their song lists, you will see rakthi ragas occurring just as frequently as from anyone else. You cannot be a complete Carnatic musician without performing them regularly in a full length concert.

[vasanthakokilam]

I have observed among the youngsters a drift between male CM singers and female CM singers. And that drift is attributable to the laya-induced dynamism and aggressiveness practiced by the young male singers. I did not attribute it to the PSN effect since I see the same dynamism in Sandeep Narayan and Ramakrishna Murthy as well. At one point I had an unvetted thought that the trend may have started with Sanjay. I realize that the original poster is taking a negative view of this trend and I am not necessarily subscribing to it but I find it interesting that such laya-laden dynamism is indeed a trend that others have observed.

[thenjasatta]

To be honest, its not all male youngsters. Although artists like Ramakrishnan Murthy do bring in a laya-induced dynamism and aggression sometimes, one cannot say that this happens all the time. Also, their concert success does not solely depend on speed. The formula for artists like Bharat Sundar or a Sunil Gargeyan (another PSN student) is to bring that high speed neraval/swara section supported by their laya prowess. The swara section and the neraval section lack any aesthetics. They are just mere permutations and combinations of swaras, lacking any substance. I dont have a great opinion on their aalaapanaas either. They are all very superficial. Never appeals to me personally.

I must disagree with sureshvv here. Please go through the concert lists of male artists who belong to that school and you will see that very rarely rakthi ragas get taken up for elaboration. They might include them as a krithi but you will very rarely hear those artists take it up as a sub main or main. This is plainly because any permutation or combination of swaras wont work in rakthi ragas. They are phrase oriented.

Predominantly, PSN school uses this formula for success. I have also seen other artists such as Sikkil Gurucharan (I dont know what school he belongs to) handling mostly only scalar ragas. I will probably never listen to artists who flourish purely based on speed sans any aesthetics. These are also the same artists who do maximum gimmicks (shooting arrows and pointing at the sky with their arms) on stage. I am not surprised.

[arasi]

Several interesting points emerge from the above posts.

Yes, they are more aggressive (as in self-confidence), in trying more kaNakku vazhakku and bhEdams--the women singers too.

Yes, Sanjay inspires them with those, and for their including a few out of the way songs that he finds and sings. Yet, the rAga bhAvA and lyrical bhAvA he displays and the experience he has amassed over many years are not easy to achieve.

Yes, there is an ocean of difference between clever singing and richly emotive singing. Only years of experience and their preferences can make them complete musicians, as they balance their acts--and really, how many talented young singers we have now

[kunthalavarali]

I don't find anything wrong in being predictable. Some of us went to a MMI or KPA concert exactly for that reason!

[Rsachi]

Dear,
All art is a combination of predictability (familiarity and audience connect in form) and creativity. Especially in classical music.
Repertoire and method of delivery becomes a question of bani and parampara.
Add the layer of popularity and competition and seasonal flavours, audience profile, etc. And what they call "percentage tennis" =aversion to risk, you get a highly predictable approach.
Add a long-teaching guru with dozens of students trained especially for kutcheri paddhati and you begin label the product after him/her.

It becomes as boring as thayir sadam! Or Horlicks!
But who complains?
Only those seeking new experiences.

[vasanthakokilam]

Sachi, good deduction. Yes, it is like percentage tennis. The audience behavior is predictable too, everyone knows what type of Ragamalika delivery during RTP will get a positive reaction from the audience.

Frivolous humor: I read your last part this way and it still made sense "It becomes as boring as Horlicks!
But who complans? Only those seeking new experiences."

[jodha]

Pl.do take into account AR and RaGa.they too belong to PSN school.

[rajeshnat]

Students like Abhishek ,kbmk and AS Murali have learnt maximum from PSN and they can be completely taken as ssi-psn school. There is quite a lot of difference in musical approach between AS Murali ,Abhishek and KBMK.

Musicians like Amritha Murali, GV , Bharath Sundar, Amritha Murali ,Raga (to an extent) and many many more take PSN as their guru (the reason is many a time their guru passes away like GV after a sundaresan passed away ).Shri PSN has certainly lot of connections in sabhas and he is indeed well respected or rather most respected teacher in the last 10 years . PSN is the best god father to many aspiring musicians . I am not sure if you can map their music approach to PSN - but of course each of them may have learnt few songs from Shri PSN.

Just my 2 cents here.

[sureshvv]

I must disagree with sureshvv here. Please go through the concert lists of male artists who belong to that school and you will see that very rarely rakthi ragas get taken up for elaboration. They might include them as a krithi but you will very rarely hear those artists take it up as a sub main or main. This is plainly because any permutation or combination of swaras wont work in rakthi ragas. They are phrase oriented.

Predominantly, PSN school uses this formula for success.

I still find this somewhat hard to believe. Reethigowlai, Anandabhairavi, Surutti, Kedaragowlai etc. are quite commonly heard from these artistes. Let me keep tabs for a while and come back.

[nanosadagopan]

RaGa is who?

[mohan]

RaGa is who?

Ranjani Gayathri

[arasi]

Mohan,
A couple of years ago, while commenting on the Cleveland Tyagaraja Festival, I used the Ra-GA abbreviation. It sounded like rAgA and I liked it. I see it's catching up now!

Good to see your post...

[shankarank]

People will have to accept the fact that there is music in layam . So now you will have an entire school of musicians to prove it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwYvEDb_F7E

After a point tyAgaraja's viSranti and Ananta take over and over power him - his virtuosity and frills become irrelevant . His music entirely rests on layam.

The PSN boys/gals are doing the CM world a great favor!

[Vedavanam]

PSN seems to be one of those gurus who offers guidance at the large level to highly motivated shishyas. Each is treading a well-chosen path for himself and is also attributing his/her successes to him. That is indeed an unmatched record.

[devan]

Most overated guru.his students have made it inspite of of his teaching.aalaiyilatha oorla illa poo chakarai.

[GNB_LGJ_PR]

During the season this year, I happened to attend Kunnakudi BMK and Arun Prakash's lecdem "Innovative approach to Swarakalpanas and Pallavi
Structure" at SPSS. IMHO KBMK and AP along with Shree Sundar Kumar on the Mridangam presented a great lecdem. At the end of the lecdem PSN sir was asked to say a few words. He said "KBMK has worked very hard on the laya aspects and he himself(PSN) is not so strong in that area as he did not toil much on the laya side of CM" - humble admission by the most successful guru in CM today

[sureshvv]

Very interesting. Kind of debunks many deductions in this thread

[Vedavanam]

During the season this year, I happened to attend Kunnakudi BMK and Arun Prakash's lecdem "Innovative approach to Swarakalpanas and Pallavi
Structure" at SPSS. IMHO KBMK and AP along with Shree Sundar Kumar on the Mridangam presented a great lecdem. At the end of the lecdem PSN sir was asked to say a few words. He said "KBMK has worked very hard on the laya aspects and he himself(PSN) is not so strong in that area as he did not toil much on the laya side of CM" - humble admission by the most successful guru in CM today

I was also a witness to this humble and honest admission by PSN Sir.

[mahavishnu]

Here is a link to that lec-dem by KBMK (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHWP3XsEoik). Excellent demo. Highly recommended. What talent some of these young people have!

I think the entire premise of this thread is based on a rubbish hypothesis. PSN is an excellent guru and each one of his students is so different. Personally, if I listen to Abhishek, KBMK, R-G, GV and other leading disciples of his, I can hardly find anything similar in their approaches leave alone predictability in their performances.

Even if the original point is about patantharam, I think each of these people mentioned above have such different styles that they have added to the classic SSI pAdams.