Is it correct to do ‘bit adippathu’ on the concert stage?

PKSundar · Post by **PKSundar** » 12 Dec 2015, 09:41

A few years back, a very popular singer was performing at the Margazhi Maha Utsavam, with several sheets of paper spread in front of her as she attempted a medley of Venkata Kavi’s songs. That the great composer would have winced and twisted in his grave several times is another matter altogether. But the bits of paper fluttering around the stage made an old-timer comment “என்ன இது? வடகம் வத்தல் காய வைக்கறா மாதிரி!”
Ironically, in the same year, Sanjay, on the same stage, during the question and answer session, came down heavily on the practice. But unfortunately, that has become a trend now and an accepted practice. Very few people seem to raise an eyebrow and even fewer are vocal about coming down on this despicable trend.
A cousin of mine, an avid fan and connoiseur of Carnatic music has an explanation to offer. In the earlier days, artistes had only a very few concerts to perform and so could memorize songs. But now the pressure to sing different songs in many sabhas is so much that an artiste cannot remember all the songs and hence has to resort to the ‘bits’. I don’t buy this. Can mastery be achieved, in any field, by constantly referring to bits of paper, like a novice trying to cook with the recipe book in one hand?!
Strangely and perhaps I should say fortunately, instrumentalists do not seem to be referring to bits of paper on stage; it is only the vocalists who are plagued by this affliction. I always wonder how such artistes who cannot remember a few lines of a song, can master the nuances of a raga or the swaras for that matter!
Is it only I who gets riled up by a singer surreptitiously glancing at the paper in front of him/her? What do other rasikas feel?

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 12 Dec 2015, 10:24

You have given a bit of your mind!
I read that Sri T Sadasivam insisted on the memory pad being of cardboard so that the shuffling noise won't carry through the mike. That implies that MS too referred to some bit. But, I have never seen her do it on stage.
If Sanjay said it was wrong, then it must be right!
Instrumentalists go by swaras, I presume, and if they have it right, words won't matter.
OVK is anyway a special cup of tea. Maybe, Sanjay avoids OVK because it is difficult to remember!

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 12 Dec 2015, 17:23

Going by Rasikas' demands for a wide variety of songs including rare Tamil kritis and those like Abhangs, notes on stage have come to stay. But referring to notes for time tested kritis is not good.

PKSundar · Post by **PKSundar** » 12 Dec 2015, 18:20

KVC

Now that you mention it, I realise that I have never heard Sanjay sing an OVK composition! But I will not put it beyond him to learn a song however difficult it may be. Also, not all songs of OVK are difficult to learn.

Sivaramakrishnan,

That is exactly my point. A few years back, a person who has since been awarded Sangeeta Kalanidhi was performing along with a legend, I think in Cleveland. They were singing "swaminatha paripalaya" and this person kept looking at a paper!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 12 Dec 2015, 20:11

I would rather look at a paper than make a mistake. I do not know what is wrong in having a paper as a ready reckoner. Giving a bit to artist from rasikas is a practice going on for a long long time and this will not change

PKSundar · Post by **PKSundar** » 13 Dec 2015, 08:35

VK Raman

The question that is begging to be asked is how did the greats like Ariyakudi, Semmangudi, MS, DKP, MLV, Santhanam etc. sing without making mistakes without referring to notes? If one cannot remember half a dozen songs before ascending the stage, is he or she fit to render a concert?

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 16 Dec 2015, 14:16

May be because they could get away with singing the same half a dozen songs

But seriously, times are different now and more tools are available and there is nothing wrong with using all the tools one can, as long as it does not get in the way of the music.

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 16 Dec 2015, 21:49

agree... don't refer to notes for viribhoni and pavamAna.... then it would be "pAvamAna" concert...

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 16 Dec 2015, 22:18

Did anyone seriously consider that our memory is being affected by the change in our diets sine the time of MLV, ARI, DKP and MSS and also due to the pollution? But this does not explain why only a handful of musicians refrain from referring to notes.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 17 Dec 2015, 12:17

Indian Classical Music, Karnataka Sangetham, in particular with idealism, idealism of Sacred Knowledge, had the agama, tradition of karna parampara in teaching, learning and its practices similar to Veda, Upanishads etc, teaching, learning and its practices. Learning by rote, memory, with the twin objectives of aiming perfection in learning and teaching only to the truly, eligible. Karna parampara learning resulted limiting the scope of repertoire and also unavoidable, repetitions of the great compositions. Few who had wide repertoire, were respected. Inevitable changes occurred in practice, both good/better and bad/worst with bani and styles. Need was felt for safe keeping the sampradaya. Following spirit of 'Sruti' and 'Smriti', written texts with grammar; notation with lakshanas and musicology got established in practice. Agama, tradition got established recitation of the memorized and referring to the texts, details not in perfect memory in the practice of religion and theology. Sampradaya in Karnataka Sangeetham also followed these practices. While there is no prescription for not referring to the written text/notation, higher value is attached to recitation/singing with memory of perfection for akshara, sabda, its bhava. Truth of fact (not belief) is mind with training, functions with parallel or even multiple with avadhana/higher concentration. Performer, with trained mind and attained skill, is enabled in singing with twin tracks of sangeetha and sahithya bhavam, in independence or dependence, in relationship. Attained higher skills ensures quality. Deficiency or lower skills attainment results in affecting the quality. Centrality is for offering of pleasure, musical.

In the similar line of the mindset of the question raised, is it right for the rasika to get distracted by watching the practitioner's act, act of referring to the written text/notation, resulting in his delusion?

I urge and appeal to the rasikas to end the misconception and misunderstanding of this aspect, spiritually.

munirao2001

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 19 Dec 2015, 02:13

Modified topic title (translated to English) in case non-Tamil members are wondering what it is about.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 19 Dec 2015, 09:11

Thank you, SRKRIS!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 19 Dec 2015, 10:37

As Sri SS=SKD has stressed in his speech, these are days of technology. So we should find a solution rather than crib about musicians reading lyrics on stage. I therefore propose four solutions which are all eminently affordable in this time and age of Bose, Android, etc.
1. Sundar Pitchai Solution: Google Glass.It is discreet, adds a respectability, and shines the stuff on your inner eye surreptitiously. Comes in 32 GB (all trinity) and 128GB (all composers) versions.
2. Satya Nadella or Ola Solution: Mike mounted 5 incher Windows phone off the shelf, lyric streamed on board or via Whatsapp by father/mother/sister/brother.
3.Vishy Anand Solution= Memory Plus Complan. A bit iffy, but can be practised/consumed day in and day out. Downside, must stop Horlicks.
4. Pithamaha Solution= Most time tested approach. Have lots of disciples, pile them up on stage, and make them sing along. Can work only if you don't pay them.

KNV1955 · Post by **KNV1955** » 03 Jan 2016, 11:14

Sachi Soo....per. A major problem with Google glass & 5 incher Windows phone or paper, the focus will shift from rendering with Bhavam or Feel to mechanical rendering. Also the musician loses eye contact with everyone around & audience. The audience feel irritated with lifeless singing.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 03 Jan 2016, 11:24

Frequent visitors to USA seem to enjoy buying gadgets they find useful on the stage. How long before we see an Autocue?

I am caused to reflect: some people think I am making a big deal of nothing when I say that performers should be able to sing (ie, out loud and not mic-dependent) before ascending the stage. Others think that the paper is the greatest sin. I do sympathise with them, but, in my turn, I do not think it is such a big deal as to spoil our enjoyment of the music. Without paper, better; but with paper (or ipad, etc) can still be good.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Jan 2016, 15:00

Let's not forget that
This culture evolved
With its timeless riches
In the oral tradition--yes
The guru uttered and thence
The student learnt by hearing

CM history reveals that too--
Notations came later, to reinforce--

If you got the tune, the gait--
Why bother with words? I hear now--
SAhithyam matters the least to them?
A necessary nuisance in modern times
kaNakku vazhakku's the new challenge
Letting bhAvA exit with the lyrics, pray?

When you hear strains of a rAgA and try to place it, you hum it, can't find the name and then, often times it's a word or words which you sing which connects you to the rAgA. That's because the emotive content of the song was etched in the rAgA phrases, and it's lodged in our minds.

If CM artistes are going to discard the importance of the lyrics, or suffer lyrics only with the aid of paper, technological devices, they better not call themselves hundred percent CM artistes...

Exceptions: old performers whose memory is going. But they are not good at quickly glancing at the paper and their eyes can't see well either. So, even they don't benefit by it

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Jan 2016, 15:08

srkris,
I didn't understand the expression 'bit aDikkiRadu' at first. Understood it as folks started posting.

"Is it alright to refer to notes on stage?" is a title non-speakers and speakers of tamizh can understand.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Jan 2016, 19:08

Wait a minute! How come a number of posts bear an all tamizh title now?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Jan 2016, 21:32

updated the title to what Arasi suggested.

Arasi, when we change the title only the title of the first post gets changed. Rest remain the same as before. New posts after the title change will reflect that change

gardabha_gana · Post by **gardabha_gana** » 03 Jan 2016, 21:42

What always struck me - 94 year old Srikantan never had a piece of paper with him while churning out rarest of the rare krithis....concert after concert year after year..... though he didn't sing abhangs

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Jan 2016, 22:38

Kokilam,
Thanks

What I meant was this: Look at the second post and a few following ones. They are in tamizh script! Wasn't so originally...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Jan 2016, 23:14

They are in tamizh script! Wasn't so originally...

If you are absolutely sure about that, then I do not have a ready answer for that. Is the tamil title in the second and a few posts after that same as the original topic title? If so, then it is working as expected. But I can not explain if they were not there originally and then changed ( unless srkris went on a title change spree on a posting by posting basis!! ).

( will clean up these admininstrative posts later... Please continue with the topic )

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jan 2016, 00:30

Right. Will make room for the topic. Will discuss it off the thread...

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 04 Jan 2016, 01:17

The titles have been changed.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 04 Jan 2016, 11:43

Gardhabagana

What always struck me - 94 year old Srikantan never had a piece of paper with him while churning out rarest of the rare krithis....concert after concert year after year..... though he didn't sing abhangs

Srikantan Sir, like many other great maestros believed in advance planning for every concert. Planning any composition, which he has not presented, only after listening, checking the notations (authentic, if available) and memorizing the sahithya. Owing to the memory power not strong, he did keep a note with the sahithya along with items planned for the concert. He did permit his son & sishya, Ramakant to keep the notes with sahithya, for a quick reference and recall.

munirao2001

gajamukhu · Post by **gajamukhu** » 11 Jan 2016, 13:48

I've always wondered why Semmangudi appears to be referring to notes while singing endarO mahAnubhAvulu in this recording:

https://youtu.be/7rsI17n6i3E?t=7m57s

With no offense to him, perhaps he knows the composition so well that he's catching up on his reading while singing it?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Jan 2016, 15:08

As I have mentioned before, even the performers who frown upon resorting to any visual aid
for sAhityA, some of them may need one to jog their memory in old age--particularly with a lengthy song, it seems.
SSI was seventy eight then...

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