Lec dem by Gayatri on Grahabhedam

Carnaticaddict · Post by **Carnaticaddict** » 06 Jan 2016, 23:27

http://youtu.be/g8w4Yx767mM

I just saw the Lecture Demonstration by Gayatri on Graha Bhedam posted on you tube. What an amazing presentation that was! I have never heard give such a coherent, original and practical presentation on Grahabhedam. There was no grandiose theorizing. It was explained so well and i am amazed at the effortlessness with which she performed Grahabhedam.

How beautifully she has explained that while it is indeed a great technical feat, if it cannot be presented with bhava and made pleasing to the listeners, it is better left alone. The way Ranjani and Gayatri sing complex Pallavis, kanakkus and Graha Bhedam in concerts is all the more special given that it is always aesthetically pleasing and sounds melodious. What a welcome change from some Vidwans who in the name of kanakkus end up producing noise that is most discordant. They really are No.1 now!

bengalururasika · Post by **bengalururasika** » 07 Jan 2016, 18:16

Agree completely.

She is such a blessed musician. I challenge any other singer to give a similar lec-dem with such command and mastery. I am constantly in awe and admiration of Gayatri. Her voice, her creativity, her mind -- no one, and I truly mean no one, can match her. For those non-musical souls who claim that the RG duo is only good for abhangs and similar tail-end concert pieces, please watch this.

And to think that this is just this lec-dem only captures the tip of the iceberg when it comes to her talent. The brilliance of her mind is too much for the ordinary human to comprehend. I just hope she gets the recognition she deserves from the world. Utmost respects.

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 08 Jan 2016, 10:17

One of the best lec dems ever! You can see the amount of depth and work that Ranjani-Gayatri have put into their music.

That Simhendramadhyamam - Mayamalavagowla graha bhedam has been explored in one very memorable film song : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2klpOa4SlU

SriKrishnan · Post by **SriKrishnan** » 09 Jan 2016, 16:58

Brilliant one ! Shows Gayatri's vidwath and deep thinking. Also the the way she switches the ragas effortlessly is amazing. i wish she gives more such programs, in addition to her great music.

I did not know that the Sindhu bhairavi swarajathi was by lalgudi Jeyaraman - I would not hesitate to say it is an unparalleled composition.
This lec demo triggered few more questions - I will post under technical discussions..

narayan · Post by **narayan** » 09 Jan 2016, 22:07

Superb! The Sindhubhairavi swarajathi was very good.

dhanurasi · Post by **dhanurasi** » 10 Jan 2016, 08:06

Found this in the comments section of this superb Grahabedham Lecture on youtube. https://youtu.be/g8w4Yx767mM

How biased are these comments? More viewpoints from those who attended?

Rajaram Pattabiraman 1 day ago
That was an excellent LecDem. I was actually there during that morning session @ MA. Thoroughly enjoyed it.Just wanted to know why the summing up of the programme by Sanjay Subrahmanyan speech is not found in this recording. His speech was equally brilliant about Graha Bhedam.Some of his references were simply outstanding and made it look very simple. Would really appreciate if you could post it if it is not edited and still available.
Reply ·

Narayanan Venkatesan 22 hours ago (edited)
+Rajaram Pattabiraman

Seriously? Did he say anything on Graha Bedham at all?
I was there and I am balanced about Sanjay. He started his response well, but he didn't have anything of material to say. So he cut that 'beaten to death' old joke of using the term Sruti Bedham (Bedham of Sruthi). His fanatics started laughing even before he said it. Apart from saying something stupid on Single Malt Whiskey (is that proclaiming about his poison) without any connection, he blabbered that Grahabedham can be used to wake up sleepy rasikas when you don't have their attention.

Gayathri responded to that saying that Graha Bedham shouldn't be a fallback tool, if you can't sing a raga that engages your audience fully.

Throughout the LecDem, she effortlessly 'demonstrated' her absolute sync to the sruthi scales while shifting across them. And whatever she sang was purely musical.

In short, the Lec Dem was masterly and the one presiding unfortunately didn't add any value.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Jan 2016, 02:08

If there is anything worse than 'drive by' comments we see around here are the youtube comments. There are always people with different opinions and feelings and more commonly biases. I remember an old Tamil saying heard in villages, a bit crass but quite picturesque and carrying practical wisdom, 'vEliyila pORa ONaanai eduththu vEttiyila vittukittu kuththuthu kudaiyuthunna maathiri'. Speaking for myself, that is what I try to recall whenever I read some really weird comments on the internet and getting upset by them.

The lec-dem is brilliant indeed. One thing she says about Natta Kurinji and Neelambari is interesting. The Bedam is brought out by singing the notes sharply ( Natta Kurinji ) or with curves (Neelambari). I guess it falls with in the same principle that the respective gamakas of the ragas need to be maintained but it is interesting how similar they are in note intervals but we do not normally confuse one with the other because of the sharp vs curved prayogas.

While grahabedam works brilliantly for scale based ragas and easy to demonstrate, the fact that it does not work for ragas like Kedara Gowla says a lot about the fundamental nature of Indian classical music we all know very well, namely, more than the notes, what happens between the notes is more important to bring out the identify of the raga. The constraint that one should not apply gamakas to the Sa and Pa of the base raga when shifting to the new tonic to bring about the new raga is what makes that point clear.

On a lighter note, I enjoyed her use of colloquial Tamil words. For someone who grew up outside of Tamil nadu, she has them down pat!

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 11 Jan 2016, 08:50

At least it looks more like 2 real people talking. In some others though...

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 11 Jan 2016, 09:26

Seriously, I am interested in what exactly Sanjay said. Another rasika also commented that Sanjay snubbed her. The point of interest is whether he added value to the presentation.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 11 Jan 2016, 10:30

"Grahabedam" is like perungayam. In small amounts, it is great but can be abused through overuse. For a lec-dem on the topic, this level of use is appropriate. But if I hear this type of thing in a concert, I may be somewhat dismayed.

I am ambivalent about the Lalgudi Sindhubhairavi piece. It hurt my head a bit. It may grow on me.

Seriously, I am interested in what exactly Sanjay said. Another rasika also commented that Sanjay snubbed her. The point of interest is whether he added value to the presentation.

Did not attend this one but noticed that on occasion he made some lighthearted remarks and they helped rarefy the atmosphere and enliven the audience.

dhanurasi · Post by **dhanurasi** » 11 Jan 2016, 14:19

Did not attend this one but noticed that on occasion he made some lighthearted remarks and they helped rarefy the atmosphere and enliven the audience.

"rarefy the atmosphere?"

Like adding some iron to improve purity of gold?

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 11 Jan 2016, 20:25

More like opening the window after someone has passed gas

dhanurasi · Post by **dhanurasi** » 11 Jan 2016, 20:45

Wow! I am elated to see the standard of discussions.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 11 Jan 2016, 21:13

Just seemed like a better analogy than yours. Sorry, no offense intended.

Carnaticaddict · Post by **Carnaticaddict** » 12 Jan 2016, 03:11

Here is what Sanjay had to say on Grahabhedam.
He started out saying that it is New Age music that was started by artists like GNB. However I disagree since this existed much before that. Also much of Carnatic music concert singing is new age and old age musicians sang one raga and composition for hours. The whole kutcheri format in that sense is new age.

Then he apparently took 5 min before the lec dem to find out that in 1945 GB was valid as per shastrik tradition.

Then he went on for 5 minutes how this is "nakaas velai" which he went on to explain that this is a diversion to attract audience,s attention. If the audience is bored with the raga, this wakes them up from their slumber. If it were really so easy to do this, more people would be using this tool. Gayatri beautifully explained that this not a walk in the park and this should not be mugged up but the artist should get into the experience of both the ragas simultaneously. You need to be able to experience two ragas at the same time and if you cannot even sing one raga well, there is no way you can sing a Grahabhedam successfully spontaneously.

He then went on to talk about how single malt grows in you over time and in the same way Grahabhedam will grow on listeners.
In the end he said that his guru had told him that as long as the gammakas of the first raga were not compromised, it was okay to do Grahabhedam.

I am not sure which part of this 5 min speech was supposed to give a brilliant insight into GB. I guess as one of the comments stated, sometimes, fans can get so crazy about an artist that whatever sounds that come out of them sound like Veda vaaku. I thought his snide comments were not appropriate at all given that this is a lec dem on GrahaBhedam that the panel had picked out as a topic. If you really feel that GB should not be done which is what it sounded like he thought, then do not select that topic for a lec dem.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 12 Jan 2016, 04:05

If you really feel that GB should not be done which is what it sounded like he thought

In the end he said that his guru had told him that as long as the gammakas of the first raga were not compromised, it was okay to do Grahabhedam

You wrote both of the above which are not in sync. But I get your point, he came across a bit sour on GB and not as an enthusiastic proponent.

It looks like his commentary was not about what Gayathri demonstrated ( which was excellent ) but about GB itself in general, partially in jest ( single malt, waking up the audience etc. )

btw, I am not sure what people are upset about. This is not even confrontational, may be SS should not have been frivolous in his commentary. But I have been in MA lec dems where there was unbridled verbal confrontation on what was presented and the presenter getting mad etc.

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 12 Jan 2016, 05:37

Carnaticaddict wrote:Here is what Sanjay had to say on Grahabhedam.
I am not sure which part of this 5 min speech was supposed to give a brilliant insight into GB. I guess as one of the comments stated, sometimes, fans can get so crazy about an artist that whatever sounds that come out of them sound like Veda vaaku. I thought his snide comments were not appropriate at all given that this is a lec dem on GrahaBhedam that the panel had picked out as a topic. If you really feel that GB should not be done which is what it sounded like he thought, then do not select that topic for a lec dem.

Well said. And that too after inviting another Vidushi to talk about Grahabhedam. Has Sanjay Subramaniam (SS) ever given a lec dem on anything?? I don't think I have ever listened to SS give a straightforward response to any question. He thinks it's fashionable for a great vidwan to be acerbic and thinks what he says is funny. It's more irritating than funny.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 12 Jan 2016, 06:07

vasanthakokilam wrote:
btw, I am not sure what people are upset about. This is not even confrontational, may be SS should not have been frivolous in his commentary. But I have been in MA lec dems where there was unbridled verbal confrontation on what was presented and the presenter getting mad etc.

VK: I can see why some people are upset. I don't have any horse in this race, but the President of the conference (and de facto chair of the session) making frivolous remarks of this kind is neither productive nor appropriate (if Sanjay indeed said what he is alleged to have said). I am not against using humor, but I do not see any value in the pointlessness of his comments. I think this is more "vishamam" than an innocuous remark to clear the air. Sanjay should stick to making his cricket analogies and Mylapore vambu jokes on his annual Margazhi/Jaya TV (or whatever it is now) appearance.

The unfortunate thing is that he is not he only one to have used his SK bully pulpit in this manner.

And yes, Sanjay has given lec-dems including one on Sri KSK's compositions this very season. However, I find his presentations to be intellectually impoverished and are not in the same league as his concerts.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 12 Jan 2016, 06:37

Mahavishnu, got it, I take that back, I can see why some people are upset about such things. Let us agree that he could have stayed away from the single malt remark.

What I have seen before is the SK designates typically do not say much of anything but just be overly polite and may be summarize a little bit and move on. May be that is what people expect and that will definitely be non-controversial though colorless.

How was SS's commentary on other lec dems?

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 12 Jan 2016, 07:44

SS himself has done GB according to some reviews. The man and his style are inseparable perhaps.
It is easy to see that SS lacks finesse, but difficult to agree that his presentation is intellectually impoverished as a sweeping remark, or that he does not give straight answers. His answers are bluntly straight often e,g, raga and rain. Subhasree said that he Q&A sessions are eagerly looked forward to. It is not just because of fans. Rather fans are because of it.
Sensitivities vary; some like humour and can dissociate it from intent and context; some are touchy and prudish; some like what is politically right; and so on.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 12 Jan 2016, 07:46

I do not find any value addition by SS in the remarks after the lec.demo above.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 12 Jan 2016, 10:20

Neither do I. But there is more to life than value addition.

The presentation on KSK may have been "intellectually impoverished" but it did bring out salient aspects of his philosophy and influence on his students, which I think was the primary purpose.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 12 Jan 2016, 10:27

HarishankarK wrote: Has Sanjay Subramaniam (SS) ever given a lec dem on anything?? I don't think I have ever listened to SS give a straightforward response to any question.

It is clear that you are not going to let reality get in the way of your biases.

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 12 Jan 2016, 15:04

Just so that the topic doesn't veer off to a discussion about Sanjay instead of Graha Bhedam ...

We had a very long thread some time ago where we proved that the technique is also mathematically consistent using the 22 shruti system and that the accuracy of said graha bhedam was harmonically superior even to the 12-tone Equal temperament system specifically devised for easy shifting across the keys. The maths also (partially) explains why ragas seem to have a refreshingly different flavour when sung in a different position (the plain note intervals slightly adjust at a micro tonal level).

I remember a recording of LGJ playing Neelambari within the Nattakurinji alapana. Also in a concert at IITM, Ganesh and Kumaresh brought in Kalyani within Thodi and for a while, there was only pure Kalyani with not a shadow of Thodi anywhere.

And also that GNB Hindolam of Maa Ramanan -- when I first heard the alapana I could not immediately determine where the adhara Sa was and ended up hearing MOHANAM for a while before I realized I had mistaken the D1 for the Shadjamam and then SNAP - Hindolam. The interesting thing was that even the gamakas were transposable.

The ragas Mohanam, Madhyamavati, Hindolam, Shudda Saveri and Shudda Dhanyasi are all graha bhedams of each other in scale, in that order.

yours_truly · Post by **yours_truly** » 12 Jan 2016, 16:54

SrinathK wrote:Just so that the topic doesn't veer off to a discussion about Sanjay instead of Graha Bhedam ...

But isn't that consistent with the topic itself?

vilomachapu · Post by **vilomachapu** » 12 Jan 2016, 17:37

Sanjay's comments were certainly not acerbic. He felt that GB was not a must. Sanjay is quite capable of giving excellent lecdems. Only that he does not wants talk much but let his music speak for him. Rasikas must try to understand his viewpoint rather than jumping to conclusions about his impoverishness or other imaginary trait they may dig up out of bias. Sanjay's lecdem on KSK was brilliant and offered a good analysis of his guru's music.

dhanurasi · Post by **dhanurasi** » 12 Jan 2016, 20:14

I didn't like this LecDem when I watched it the 18th time. There are many reasons.

One, Why should the master on the stage show such humility? Two, Why can't she learn that we see humility as weakness these days!

I estimate that she'd have been on concert stage for 25-30 years now (counting her Act-I as a violinist). After that, why should she say "I consider myself very young..." as the beginning words of her response to Trichy Sankaran's question. And then she contrasts that with that delivery at 47.21!

Someone wrote in this thread earlier that 'She is the best'. But we won't agree, unless she shows off in a manner befitting a numero uno!
If she can't even do that, how can she ever build a fanatic base who would loudly bat for her, without even knowing what she did.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 12 Jan 2016, 22:39

yours_truly wrote:
SrinathK wrote:Just so that the topic doesn't veer off to a discussion about Sanjay instead of Graha Bhedam ...
But isn't that consistent with the topic itself?

Ha... topic-bedam indeed.

dhanurasi wrote
I didn't like this LecDem when I watched it the 18th time.

I am sure a few people may not catch on to your sarcasm

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 12 Jan 2016, 23:28

vasanthakokilam wrote:
dhanurasi wrote
I didn't like this LecDem when I watched it the 18th time.
I am sure a few people may not catch on to your sarcasm

TBH I didn't! SO GLAD I did not fire off a response

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 13 Jan 2016, 03:29

Carnaticaddict wrote:http://youtu.be/g8w4Yx767mM

I just saw the Lecture Demonstration by Gayatri on Graha Bhedam posted on you tube. What an amazing presentation that was! I have never heard give such a coherent, original and practical presentation on Grahabhedam. There was no grandiose theorizing. It was explained so well and i am amazed at the effortlessness with which she performed Grahabhedam.

How beautifully she has explained that while it is indeed a great technical feat, if it cannot be presented with bhava and made pleasing to the listeners, it is better left alone

I just watched it, completely agree with you. And in 45 mins. That was an *outstanding* presentation. Now I know why people are upset about SS's comments, rightly so, this kind of presentation doesn't deserve "single malt" humour.

About Grahabedham itself, I bow to TNS.

parivadini · Post by **parivadini** » 14 Jan 2016, 23:42

Inspired by this lecdem, I went back to a recording of SKR. Here is a small snippet fro it: https://soundcloud.com/lalitharam-ramac ... azagil-skr

I posted the following note on this in my FB wall:

சமீபத்தில் RaGa-வின் காயத்ரி கிரஹபேதம் நிகழ்த்திய குறித்து அகாடமியில் நிகழ்த்திய லெக்சர் டெமான்ஸ்ட்ரேஷனை யூடியுபில் காண நேர்ந்தது. பிரமிக்க வைத்த உரை. அனைவரும் அவசியம் பார்க்க வேண்டிய ஒன்று.

அதன் உந்துதலில் பழைய பெட்டியை தூசு தட்டி கல்யாணராமனின் உரையை நேற்று வேலைக்கு வழித் துணையாய் அழைத்துச் சென்றேன்.

உரையின் கடைசியில் தான் இசையமைத்த பாடலை விளக்கி பாடியுள்ளார் கல்யாணராமன். இவ்வளவு அழகான சிந்து பைரவியில் இவ்வளவு நுணுக்கங்களைப் புகுத்தியும் கெடுக்காமல் இருக்க முடியுமா என்ற எண்ணம் நேற்றில் இருந்து ஓடிக் கொண்டிருக்கிறது.

கிரகபேதம் என்பது ஒரு வித மாய வித்தை. ஒரு ராகத்தின் ஸ்வரங்கள் கொண்டே வேறு ராகம் போல ஒலிக்கச் செய்யும் செப்பிடு வித்தை. விஷயம் தெரிந்தவர்கள் ரசிக்கும்படி செய்வது பெரிய காரியமல்ல். விஷயம் தெரியாதவனுக்கும் உருத்தாத வண்ணம், முதல் ராகம் ஏற்படுத்தும் சூழல் கெடாத வண்ணம் கிரகபேதத்தை கையாளும் திறன் அரிதில் வாய்ப்பதில்லை.

கச்சேரியின் கடைசியில் பாடப்படும் ஒரு துக்கடாவுக்குள் இரண்டு கிரகபேத நகாசு இருக்கட்டும், அந்த முதல் வரியில் சிந்து பைரவி வந்து தாக்கும் போது விழி ஓரத்தில் சிறிது நீர் துளிர்க்கும் எனில் நீங்களும் கொடுத்த வைத்தவர்தான்
.

கல்யாணராமனை பற்றி மூன்று படங்கள் வந்துவிட்டன. இருப்பினும் அவர் பதிவுகளைக் கேட்டால் அந்தப் படங்களில் இருப்பதை விட இல்லாததே அதிகம் என்று தோன்றுகிறது.

Vedavanam · Post by **Vedavanam** » 15 Jan 2016, 15:58

I cannot claim to be a fan of RaGa's music as I find it to be deliberately and excessively focused towards making it glittery and dramatic. This lec-dem was however, a superb demonstration of Gayatri's natural flair for music, clarity of thought and perfection in execution. Any objective listener will have to acknowledge her ease in her chosen topic and the lucid manner in which she conveyed the different approaches to it. Sanjay's comments have been edited out in the Youtube link, but if anyone attended the lec-dems on other days, he showed his prejudices towards other artists using barely veiled humor. Not surprised that he did it in this instance as well.

kedharam · Post by **kedharam** » 15 Jan 2016, 16:24

Thanks gamakam:)

pvs · Post by **pvs** » 15 Jan 2016, 21:37

This is a repeat of what others have said before, but I want to record my appreciation too. This is a very enjoyable lecdem - watched it many many times. Gayatri's ease with starting and switching from ragam to ragam in an instant highlights her vidwat and natural grasp of the music. Most importantly, making this technical discussion musically enjoyable is most welcome.
Sanjay's "humour" is flippant and irreverent in most instances I've come across. Unbecoming of a president of the conference. No one said GB was a must for him to say it's not - needless, especially when it is the objective of the gathering!

Carnaticaddict · Post by **Carnaticaddict** » 15 Jan 2016, 21:39

Vedavanam wrote:Sanjay's comments have been edited out in the Youtube link, but if anyone attended the lec-dems on other days, he showed his prejudices towards other artists using barely veiled humor. Not surprised that he did it in this instance as well.

You are correct in saying that this is the norm for Sanjay. THis is who he is and what he does and I was not surprised by it at all. What annoyed me was that people were saying the comments were brilliant and gave a wonderful insight into GB. I was there during the lec dem and I wanted to relate what was said only because people were curious to know what was said.

Vedavanam wrote:I cannot claim to be a fan of RaGa's music as I find it to be deliberately and excessively focused towards making it glittery and dramatic

Your comment above really got me thinking deeply about how we perceive music and its worth. I think we are conditioned to expect that things that taste too good must be bad for us and things that are hard to stomach must be really good for us. It has been mostly true whether it is with food or carnatic music -- my two passions in life. My thoughts are invariably expressed through food analogies.

I agree that they make an effort to make their music appealing and aesthetically sound. It sounds too appealing! However, I think just as we overlook bad presentation to find out the worth of the music, we should also be able to look beyond good presentation to see if there is worth in their music. I used to be a great rasika of Sanjay's music until about 13 years ago - not because he was able to make it appealing but because I saw his potential for good music. By the same token, with RG's music, no one can dispute the quality of their raga alapanas or neravals or swarams. It is so grounded in our tradition and yet they make it their own and do brilliant improvisations without compromising aesthetics and melody. Now that takes a lot of maturity. It is easy to overdo a particular aspect that you feel you are good at, like Seshagopalan did with his kanakkus. They have always amazed me with the way they temper their creativity and brilliance with classicism and aesthetics. They never overdo something just because they can. I have no clue who taught them this sense of "alavu". TO use a food analogy, a balanced and tasty meal has all elements in perfect proportion. A sambar that has the right amount of paruppu, chillies, tamarind, salt, spices, vegetables, etc... is not only good for you but also satisfies all your senses. If you put more chillies or spices just because you have more of it, it will ruin the sambar. Also, just because the cook put all the ingredients in perfect proportion, it does not mean they did not have more salt or spice. An artist like Gayatri is truly brilliant but somehow God has given her the maturity to control the urge to go overboard and not to make her brilliance an eccentricity. She will shoot into the sky like a rocket but somehow always land back on earth in a beautiful, graceful way. Their music has questioned my preconceived notions about good music as well. Never did I dream that good, brilliant music can be made so emotionally charged and aesthetically flawless. We have always equated genius with eccentricity but they are proof that it is possible for genius to exist without eccentricity.

gardabha_gana · Post by **gardabha_gana** » 17 Jan 2016, 22:44

I think it's an excellent one...Kudos to Gayatri. I think we need to separate out musicians and the music. If what I read is true (no reason not to believe that) - it's sad. We need not go too much into the past and will realize that indeed we need to separate out the music from the musician.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 18 Jan 2016, 00:32

I was trying to see why Ranjani Gayatri fans especially would have been upset by Sanjay's post dem comments. ( leave out people coming from other perspectives ). Closest I can come to in my profession is this.

I had figured out something about a work issue which provides a much better explanation for that problem. I share that in a meeting with my boss and others. My boss, without really commenting on my explanation, asks 'What is relevance of all this to our business?' It will be deflating and I will be mad at him for not acknowledging my contribution. I would not want to talk to him for a few hours, all sorts of thoughts will go thru me 'is he really that dumb?', 'He is not dumb, he is just doing that not to give me credit in front of others', 'He is not qualified to even comment on such things, he should stay away from this and do what he does best'. 'Who made him the boss' etc...

All that will settle down in a day when I can go to him and ask 'What the heck were you thinking? It was so deflating. You could have at least acknowledged something about what I said or if you found some issues with what I said, you could have at least talked about that intelligently".

Talking of my own boss, if this really happened with him, he would have said 'sure, I could have handled it differently. That was a brilliant explanation indeed, I can not add much value on the specifics beyond what you said but you need to have a thick skin. Don't get rattled by such things, we have more important things to deal with. Let us go'

My reaction would be, I think, if I say it to him or not 'Sure, sure but you should also learn to deal with such things better in a public meeting so it does not come across as rough as it did this time' . And we move on to other things that require our attention.

( A variation of this actually happened in my work, not with my boss but with a co-worker and good friend. It took a few text messages to sort things out )

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 18 Jan 2016, 11:09

In this case, I don't think the actual parties either noticed or cared. The cheerleaders here are the ones who make things up/blow things out of proportion.

Carnaticaddict · Post by **Carnaticaddict** » 20 Jan 2016, 20:32

As I mentioned earlier, it really was not his comments that offended me. I thought it was a pointless and inappropriate rant that did not befit the situation. It did not surprise or upset me because I expect this from Sanjay. What annoyed me though is that some people commented that his comments gave an insight into Grahabhedam. Now that was offensive to me that people can be so blinded in their fanaticism that they will claim even the rubbish that he said to be brilliant insights. Now THAT to me is offensive.

I would you give another parallel for what went down that day. Let us say your boss asks you to do a competitive analysis on the online services provided by your firm versus the competitors and you give a brilliant insight into how your offering may compare to other firms. Then your manager goes on and on about how we should not compare ourselves to other companies and how that process is actually futile, would you be completely okay with that? If he really felt that way, then he should not have wasted your time asking you to do the comparative analysis in the first place.

The topic was not whether Grahabhedam is appropriate in a concert or not. She was asked to give her perspectives on Grahabhedam and explain the nuances of that process. If they did not think Grahabhedam was appropriate, then why choose the topic? The artist does not choose the topic the committee does. She never proclaimed that it was or was not appropriate to present in a concert. She maintained that it was up to the musician to decide what was right for them. The comments were in bad taste and uncharitable. Although it is not surprising, it is very sad that he is so insecure that he has this constant need to put down other artists every opportunity he gets.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 20 Jan 2016, 21:07

Grahabedam is a part of music and its appropriateness or otherwise is not a digression by itself. Given the topic Gayathri did an excellent job does not appear to have been questioned. Well, if someone blindly says adulatory things, that is a different issue. But, to my mind commenting whether grahabedam adds value or not is not out of context, but it is not clear that Sanjay really made a point on that convincingly.

sridhar · Post by **sridhar** » 20 Jan 2016, 23:56

This video gives glimpse into how vast and deep Gayatri's knowledge of carnatic music is. I always am mesmerized by her manodharma in concerts (either in neraval or swaraprastaram). it is debatable as to whether GB adds value to music. In my simple minded observation I see this as hitherto not-sung prayogas in that raga. Sometimes we hear statements such as "don't use this or that prayoga in this ragam as this will remind listeners of an allied ragam - in GB, I guess, it is done purposely. I just wonder if GNB did not popularize /given weight in his concerts, it will have a foothold today.

bengalururasika · Post by **bengalururasika** » 22 Jan 2016, 12:33

Carnaticaddict wrote:
I agree that they make an effort to make their music appealing and aesthetically sound. It sounds too appealing! However, I think just as we overlook bad presentation to find out the worth of the music, we should also be able to look beyond good presentation to see if there is worth in their music. I used to be a great rasika of Sanjay's music until about 13 years ago - not because he was able to make it appealing but because I saw his potential for good music. By the same token, with RG's music, no one can dispute the quality of their raga alapanas or neravals or swarams. It is so grounded in our tradition and yet they make it their own and do brilliant improvisations without compromising aesthetics and melody. Now that takes a lot of maturity. It is easy to overdo a particular aspect that you feel you are good at, like Seshagopalan did with his kanakkus. They have always amazed me with the way they temper their creativity and brilliance with classicism and aesthetics. They never overdo something just because they can. I have no clue who taught them this sense of "alavu".

An artist like Gayatri is truly brilliant but somehow God has given her the maturity to control the urge to go overboard and not to make her brilliance an eccentricity. She will shoot into the sky like a rocket but somehow always land back on earth in a beautiful, graceful way. Their music has questioned my preconceived notions about good music as well. Never did I dream that good, brilliant music can be made so emotionally charged and aesthetically flawless. We have always equated genius with eccentricity but they are proof that it is possible for genius to exist without eccentricity.

Honestly, nailed it. Exactly my views.

When musicians have a performing career, drama and glitter is invariably and inevitably going to be a part of it. Is anyone seriously going to argue that Sanjay doesn't dramatize so many of his sangatis in anticipation of applause and admiration? Sudha? I hate to be taking names, but I would argue that these two 'Sangeeta Kalanidhis' top the list when it comes to frivolous and dramatized music. But, nevertheless, my view. From the young and shining newer generation artists to the oldest of veterans, a certain element of drama automatically comes up when they are on stage. Any performing musician would end up making their music a slight bit more "likeable" or "admirable" (for lack of better words) to the masses that listen to them. It is in the artist's hands to have a sense of "alavu" as you rightly said, and to not overdo it. No one beats RaGa when it comes to this.

Having said that, I must also mention that it is sometimes not fair or justified to call RaGa's music dramatic. If anyone has attended their concerts, they will witness that the thunderous response and applauses they get instantly are truly genuine and natural reflexes of the audiences. When Gayatri soars with unimaginable phrases during her alapana or mel sthayi neraval, she does it just SO well that the audience naturally responds with mesmerized adoration and love for her music. When the music reaches such great heights, it is difficult to not burst out in appreciation. When the audience listens to SUCH great music, it automatically translates into applause. And this scenario is thus wrongly interpreted by many as drama.