CHITRA VENU LEC-DEM ON 15.04.2016

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 13 Apr 2016, 11:14

DEAR RASIKAS,

THERE WILL BE A LEC - DEM ABOUT THE NEW INSTRUMENT CHITRA VENU BY SRI UDAY SHANKAR ON 15.04.2016
AT 5 PM AT THE JSS AUDITORIUM. J.P NAGAR 8 TH PHASE.

AFTER THE LEC-DEM, HE WILL BE PLAYING ONE HINDUSTANI SONG AND IF TIME PERMITS ONE OR TWO CARNATIC COMPOSITIONS.

ALL MEMBERS OF THE RASIKAS.ORG BANGALURU MAY KINDLY ATTEND THE UNIQUE DEMO.

KINDLY SEE THE INVITATION IN THE EVENTS ANOUNCEMENT THREAD.

S.NAGESWARAN.
13.04.2016.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 13 Apr 2016, 11:49

Sir,
Is the date 16th?if it is 15th please immediately correct it.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 13 Apr 2016, 12:17

Yes sir, please change it ! Also, I was planning to play mainly Hindustani and if time permits one Carnatic song.

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 13 Apr 2016, 12:35

DEAR RACHI AND UDAY SANKAR,

THE CORRECTIONS HAVE BEEN MADE.

S.NAGESWARAN.
13.04.2016.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 13 Apr 2016, 13:33

Location is very convenient!

JSS Auditorium

https://goo.gl/maps/cbQ6o3Fyxm82

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 13 Apr 2016, 17:59

Best wishes, Uday Shankar!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Apr 2016, 20:15

Uday,
Like you, you know I divide my time between two continents. Had I been in India now, it would have been a cinch for me to hurry to the venue

Hope many Rasikas.org members and also those who don't know about your merits but read about the event in the engagements column of newspapers attend...

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 13 Apr 2016, 22:06

Udhay: Echo Arasi's sentiments!!! Wishing the Lec-Dem every success it richly deserves!!! It is heartening to see youngsters like you attempting to move the boundaries of Music Instruments amidst "jaded" old foggies like me lauding the past and bemoaning the present!!

Udhay check out our(myself/ Nirmala) presentation @ the Clevelnd festival the symposium on MSS on you tube presented with VKV moderating the proceedings.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 14 Apr 2016, 03:09

Have a great Lec-Dem Uday Shankar. best wishes for a successful presentation.

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 16 Apr 2016, 11:53

DEAR RASIKAS,
THE LECTURE DEMOSTRATION OF THE CHITA VENU INNOVETED BY SRI UDAY SANKAR WAS EXCLLENT.
DUE TO TIME CONSTRAINTS, NO LECTURE WAS GIVEN BY SRI UDAY SANKAR ABOUR THE INSTRUMENT.

HE PLAYED A VERY GOOD RAGA ALAPANA OF DURBARI KANADA. THE GLIDING NOTES OF THE RAGA WERE PLAYED BY THE VENU PART OF THE INSTRUMENT, WHILE THE RHYTHAM PART WAS PRESENTED BY THE INTEGRATED STRINGS MOUNTED ON A SOUND BOX .

THEN HE PLAYED A SHORT BANDISH IN THE SAME RAGA WITH THE TABLA RECORDED IN HIS SMART PHONE.
HE PLAYED THE BANDISH FROM VILAMBA KALAM TO DURITHA KALAM ALSO.

THERE WAS A GREAT OVATION AND CLAPPING BY THE ENTIRE AUDIANCE.

OUR FORUMITE SRI SACHI ALSO ATTENDED THE LEC DEM.

WE MAY WAIT FOR SOME PHOTOS AND COMMENTS FROM SRI SACHI AND SRI UDAY SANKAR.

S.NAGESWARAN.
16.04.2016.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 16 Apr 2016, 13:27

Chitravenu was unveiled to a fine audience consisting of students of Hindustani music and exponents of flute, tabla and vocal trained by the Godkondi family.
Both Vid. Praveen Godkondi and Vid. Anoor Ananthakrishna Sharma paid handsome compliments to Uday for his innovation.

The instrument has good potential in the hands of a serious exponent. It has a combination of a sliding wind instrument, a swar mandal which can be tuned to the scale, and a tambura with a clever way of mounting to eliminate the need for a "jeevaala" buzz adjustment.
The instrument was compared to the Santoor (shatatantri) by Anoor who said tuning and playing such instruments was quite a novelty in earlier days.

May Chitravenu scale new musical heights due to the assiduous efforts of our Uday!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Apr 2016, 18:18

Thank you Nageswaran and Sachi for reporting on the event.

Uday,
The Chithra Venu has evolved in its looks to look like a musical instrument, from the demo-model that we saw and heard at Ravikiran's place. Would like to hear a bit of what you played, of course...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 16 Apr 2016, 19:32

It seems from the pic that the string section has evolved quite a lot since I last saw it in life or in pictures.

Good to know that it was well received

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 16 Apr 2016, 20:31

Very nice, Uday!

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 17 Apr 2016, 10:13

Thank you Sivaramakrishnan, Arasi, MKR, Lakshmanji, Nick, Ravi Shankar and others.

Particular thanks to Shri Nageshwaran who has helped in so many ways. Thanks to Nageshwaran and Sachi who attended the program. Had a brief but good conversation with Sachi on the directions this project can take. To be continued...

.

It has been a very exhausting several weeks as I put together this final design and practiced to play it. It is a lonely path and only I know the innumerable problems that have been solved. It is quite crazy even to me to spend a whole day in a workshop, covered in grime, come back and bathe, and then assemble things together, solve some more problems along the way, and then settle down to actually translate it all to something like music ! There is no division of labor in this unusual activity.

Perhaps with the enthusiastic reception from Shri Pravin Godkhindi, chitravenu may get some traction. It was quite fulfilling to see the swarm of young flute students checking out the chitravenu. Maestro Pravin is definitely a rare breed in the classical world for his open-mindedness. I left with very warm feelings. It was also nice to get a boost from veteran mridangam player Shri Anoor Ananthakrishna Sharma.

Rsachi wrote:a swar mandal which can be tuned to the scale, and a tambura with a clever way of mounting to eliminate the need for a "jeevaala" buzz adjustment.

There are also three sets of chords apart from the swarmandal and tambura.

The tambura is definitely an exciting new innovation that has the potential to revolutionize tambura bridge design. The current tambura bridge is bulky and wide in order to facilitate the curving that accommodates proper jivaari. However, the bulkiness also results in a loss of energy...a small knife edge bridge would enhance the volume greatly. The other problem with existing tambura bridges is that it relies on the human skill of proper filing for the curvature and it often never comes out right to the satisfaction of many musicians. The new design uses a knife edge bridge, and a small attachment with screw than can provide a precisely controlled buzz in lieu of the jivaari. I will post a video in the technical discussions.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 17 Apr 2016, 10:47

Congratulations Uday! Very glad to learn how it went.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 17 Apr 2016, 11:02

Uday, every inventor and pioneer is by definition on a lonely path with many pitfalls. His achievements will pave the way for mankind. But it is also least appreciated and recognised.

I think the GREATEST pioneer ever was Adi Shankara.

You do have company in this journey- two in fact. Shraddha and Nishtha. They are like Sita and Lakshmana who went with Rama to Dandakaranya.

How does one measure success is such endeavour? There is no external success. There is only an internal satisfaction. That is your own measure of what you have accomplished vs. your goal or benchmark.

Isn't music itself such a journey? Show me a great musician and I will show you one who is seething within to reach his high goal, far beyond what we see.

In these types of endeavours, one big help is Guru bhakti. There is a traditional prayer:
mangaLAzAsana-paraiH madAcArya-purOgamaiH
sarvaizcapUrvaiH acAryaiH satkRtAyAstu mangalaM

Obeisance and Glory be to ALL gurus, our own, and those wonderful gurus that came before our own, and conferred auspicious belssings on all, and accomplished so many great deeds!

You therefore remember your parampara as an innovator and musician always. You are part of a great tradition of innovation.

It is good you came over and showed your work. Do such demos at least once a month somewhere or other. Go to every music college. Never be disheartened. We are all wishing you success.

There may be big course corrections and design changes. There may be harsh feedback. There may be much applause. Remember it is all a part of the journey. Also have a sense of humour to take it all in a good sportsmanlike way. Life should not be serious.

And enjoy the good life. You deserve it. Everyone does.
God bless.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 17 Apr 2016, 14:44

Thanks Sachi! Wise words. Good advice.

As promised, here's a thread on the chitravenu box:

http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic ... 34#p299858

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 17 Apr 2016, 17:27

Congratulations to Uday
I am glad that the program was a grand success

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 17 Apr 2016, 17:37

You therefore remember your parampara as an innovator and musician always. You are part of a great tradition of innovation.

kalA sampannaru
https://archive.org/details/TChowdiahKalasampannaru

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 Apr 2016, 20:26

Varsha,
Couldn't have said it better--your bringing vINE Doreswamy Iyengar and Sri. Shastry praising innovator and king of the seven stringed violin, Mysore Chowdiah.

How he had spoken about the great voices of the past, and felt how it was missing in his times. His preoccupation with how to make a concert as good as in the old times, hitting upon the idea of a seven stringed violin, seeking the help of an instrument maker, getting one made, playing it, but being scared of telling his guru Bidaram Krishnappa about this innovation or playing it in his presence.

How in a concert when he was to accompany his guru, a patron encouraged him to play on it, asking his guru to let him! Pleased was the guru, and there began Chowdiah's one of a kind accompaniment!

There were admirers and then some 'maDi' people who berated him. When Ari was once asked about it, he said: when he's on the stage like a tiger and plays that violin, kachEri kaLai kaTTiDum! The concert will pick up!

How many concerts did Chowdiah play for Ari and other stalwarts:)

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 19 Apr 2016, 20:51

[quote="Rsachi") There is a traditional prayer:
mangaLAzAsana-paraiH madAcArya-purOgamaiH
sarvaizcapUrvaiH acAryaiH satkRtAyAstu mangalaM
[/quote]

Choice of the alphabet 'Z' to denote the correct pronunciation is quite unique. Am coming across this for the first time. Congrats Rsachi!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 19 Apr 2016, 22:09

Sir
I am only trying to follow the Harvard Kyoto convention:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard-Kyoto?wprov=sfla1

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 19 Apr 2016, 23:41

Thanks Rsachi for the information.

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 22 Apr 2016, 07:54

Uday, would you post a link of the concert for rasikas?

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 25 Apr 2016, 00:00

Here's the video link. The audio quality leaves much to be desired. The strings are not so audible and the iTabla program a bit loud. This is the exact opposite of my experience on stage: I could barely hear the iTabla and went by just feel, but the strings were very audible and clear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWWYHvqvmOA

As always, many thanks to Shri. Nageshwaran for helping out in many ways, especially for being an instigator in trying to find a videographer. Left to myself, it would have been too late and the whole video idea would have fizzled out and there would be no record

.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 25 Apr 2016, 00:55

Very good, Uday. Excellent demonstration and an excellent overall program. Hearing kannaDA is so pleasing to the ears and I can understand most of what was spoken. It is great that you got to unveil Chitravenu in front of such an audience. Congratulations.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 25 Apr 2016, 02:47

I forwarded the link to a few friends of mine with following note. Hope I said the right things for a brief intro (and let the video speak for itself )

"This is my good friend Uday Shankar who has designed this innovative new instrument, keeping with the gamaka requirements of Indian music in mind. Patented of course. Coming out of a great musical mind, deeply traditional on issues that matter, innovative spirit and above all the engineering know-how. This sample you see is a result of improvements of many dozens of prototypes over quite a few years."

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 25 Apr 2016, 20:17

vasanthakokilam wrote:Hope I said the right things

.

The pipe itself went through about 15 or so iterations but certainly I made at least three dozen mouthpieces. I only have two that I like.

There are many untold challenges. Imagine how we make such a fuss about "temperamental" instruments, be it flute or vina or violin. These are instruments that have been around for centuries and have a body of empirical experience that is shared by billions of users through history. I am working with the only prototype in the world and the temperamentalities of the various parts of the instrument is a unintentional secret with me

.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 28 Apr 2016, 20:49

Chitravenu featured mascot at the VIII World Flutes Festival, Mendoza, Argentina Sept. 24-28th 2016

.

Click on the link below and scroll down a bit.

http://www.worldflutesfestival.org

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 28 Apr 2016, 21:57

Congratulations!

Looks like a great event even apart from the Chitravenu exposure. I'm sure you'll have a wonderful time

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 28 Apr 2016, 23:04

Uday: CONGRATULATIONS!!

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 29 Apr 2016, 00:37

I am so happy for Uday and the delightful Chitravenu.
Being featured in the upcoming World Flute Festival, I am sure the Chitravenu will be a mega hit.

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 29 Apr 2016, 07:54

Udhay Great!! Looks like if I have to see you I can see you only in Latin America--I am tempted to show up @ mendoza--who knows anything can happen!!!
Any chance of your visiting US?I will be in India during June 23rd thro Mid August--mostly in Coimbatore. Let me know.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 29 Apr 2016, 14:25

Thanks Nick, Ravi, cienu , mkr sir.

mkr sir, I will be back in the states for a bit starting May 17th. Will give you call.

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 29 Apr 2016, 19:48

Uday; while on stage do you sit showing the 'string side' to the audience?

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 30 Apr 2016, 06:42

Yes, the audience is to my right (not exactly perpendicular but maybe about 30 degrees off) like a mridangam player sits. This way everything that I do is completely visible. The movement of the slide is dramatic and traces out the melodies in an exact analog.Also, what I do with the strings is completely visible. This seems to be the best angle.

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 30 Apr 2016, 06:45

Thanks for the details, Uday.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Apr 2016, 07:12

The movement of the slide is dramatic and traces out the melodies in an exact analog.

This is my favorite feature of Uday's creation. The melody can be visualized in its physical form as you can see in Uday's Durbari kanada rendition especially the various gamakas

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 30 Apr 2016, 07:26

vasanthakokilam wrote:
The melody can be visualized in its physical form

True vk, but...

There is a Carnatic conundrum yet to be completely solved for chitravenu. Carnatic music is possibly the most difficult thing to do complete justice to on any instrument, at least most banis except maybe of the MDR kind.

The gamakas of Carnatic music are so subtle and so rapid that I am not comfortable with the slide development at this stage. I have to practice too much for too little and I am no slouch when it comes to wrestling with an instrument. Maybe in future somebody, maybe even me, will work on an ultra-light slider and a better mechanism (without using hi-tech gizmos) for feedback pitch control than what I use now (visually aligning dot on the slider with dot on the flute and using one's ears for fine adjustment).

Of course, the entire string box is of little applicability in CM (maybe it is in HM too, but since I don't know, what I don't know cannot hurt...I am creating my own version of "HM" !).

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 30 Apr 2016, 09:52

Uday
Congratulations . Off line is it the first time that any carnatic music of any kind is represented in argentina . I remember chitravina ravikiran making headway in brazil , but this is the first time i am seeing anything out of argentina . May be you can play a small tukkada in the festival - Dont cry for me argentina - who knows you will become the next madonna

.

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 30 Apr 2016, 21:42

Uday,
Is it possible to design the instrument for a right hand glider? Was the string section already in your plans?

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 02 May 2016, 09:27

Sivaramakrishnan wrote:Is it possible to design the instrument for a right hand glider?

Yes, absolutely, the pipe is symmetrical and only the mouthpiece has to be attached to the other side. There are pending requests from flautists for that. The strings will also have to be reversed in direction of course, but there are also requests for versions without any strings.

Sivaramakrishnan wrote:Was the string section already in your plans?

I never had any plan !! However, after the initial rounds, I felt a little dissatisfaction with a purely sliding flute sound all the time and was missing the real staccato "tack" and feel of plucked strings, having dabbled with chitravina and guitar, and since the other hand was free, it quickly became a fait accompli ! I experimented with four different off-the-shelf string instruments before commisioning a custom design with Tusli Guitars of Chennai.

Even for playing the flute section of chitravenu, I had to consciously evolved a highly "tongued" method of blowing so that there is some definition to consonants. Otherwise, everything on chitravenu sounds and feels like an amoeba and keeps gliding away from any shape or definition ! Flautists trying it out for the first time realize that immediately !

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 May 2016, 10:55

Uday, what do violinists and chitra veena players do to create those definition of consonants. ( it is probably true of some AkArams too where it is not a smooth flow through the notes always )

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 02 May 2016, 11:20

vasanthakokilam wrote:violinists

With the bow. There are so many violin bowing techniques to enunciate various levels of definition but even changing the direction of bowing introduces a little definition.

vasanthakokilam wrote:chitra veena

the pluck. And there are different types of plucks for different levels of definition. For example, "Pr" as in "Prasiddha" can be effectively enunciated with a two finger pluck.

In Carnatic flute some schools have better definition and more tonguing than others. T S Sankaran sir used more than usual tonguing and that style is faithfully followed and further developed by his flamboyant grandson Jayanth.

Ramani sir used minimal tonguing and frowned upon it and hence while his playing had great tonal and aesthetic beauty and dripped with raga bhaava, it was not the greatest in terms of crispness and definition. All definition came from fingers only.

The tongue is the savior for chitravenu. I try to deliver a "pluck" with the tongue everytime I imagine I would "meetu" the string when playing the chitravina

. That way, all is well. As regards the rapid-fire staccato passageson chitravenu, I developed those techniques by studying how trombone players do it. It is still a work in progress (nobody dare tell me that chitravenu is not versatile

).

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 May 2016, 11:53

Thanks Uday. That helps. Is the 'thuthakAram' vs 'No thuthakaram' divide is what you are refering to? ((whatever that word actually means in whatever language ).

I heard mAli was the first one to move away from thuthakAram Would you say Sikkil Sisters school would be more on the thuthakAram side of things. How about Shashank? ( may be he has got more HM techniques now )

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 02 May 2016, 14:02

With the simplest of wind instruments, the recorder, as played by children in western schools, they have to learn to tu tu tu and not ff ff ff. That is the limit of my personal woodwind experience!

(School recorder bands always sound dreadful, largely, I think, because the instruments are never tuned, and more than one equals a cacophony. In the hands of a real recorder player, it is a wonderful instrument --- as is the even-more-humble penny whistle)

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 02 May 2016, 20:28

vasanthakokilam wrote:I heard mAli was the first one to move away from thuthakAram

Non surprising as he was Sri Ramani's uncle and guru, right??

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 02 May 2016, 21:13

rshankar wrote:Non surprising as her was Sri Ramani's uncle and guru, right??

This "guru" thing is over-quoted and entirely inapplicable in many cases, certainly in the case of Mali sir. I doubt if there was a single session of "lessons" from Mali sir to Ramani sir or anybody else.

Ramani sir was a genius in his own right, and developed many flute techniques unique to his style. I suspect he was entirely self-taught as was Mali sir. There isn't much to learn in flute techniques for one with gnyanam. Everything falls into place.

Again, Mali sir was very loose with sahitya, never played a complete kriti chastely from end to end but carried the day with his magical sound and improvisational ingenuity. Ramani sir played chaste kriti after chasti kriti in a highly structured and disciplined manner.

Certainly Ramani sir as well as Sankaran sir and many others hung around with Mali sir drawn by his powerful personality and overall genius but that's the extent of disciplehood.

As regards "thuthakaaram", there's thuthakaaram and there's thuthakaaram. "Mali was the first one to move away from thuthakaaram" is not a totally correct statement. Even Tirupambaram Swaminatha Pillai "moved away" from thuthakaaram depending on the sangatis and whether it's a vowel or a consonant. Again, Palladam Sanjeeva Rao, the unfortunate whipping boy of the previous generation, DID NOT use thuthakaaram as much as he did "adi" sangatis and a general lack of gamaka sophistication characteristic of that era.

T S Sankaran sir used a lot of thuthakaaram for swara enunciation and sparingly for sahitya enunciation.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 02 May 2016, 23:35

Uday - point taken.