Settai is purely developed , neither essential nor acquired

[ganesh_mourthy]

This can be considered a offshoot from Gender bias in Carnatic thread.

We were engaging in coffee talk among colleagues about the mannerisms in musicians.

For some , who are not C.music savvy, the settai is a total put off. They say it actually cracks them.

Honestly, it "used to be" a cracking thing for me. When I initiated my friends to go with me to a concert , I used to have the feeling of fremdschämen ( google and find, as there is no equivalent word in English). Some could absolutely not take it. For some it is OK as they are familiar with the system. But no one was able to ignore it. In fact , my friends imitated them making different faces for days on end. There was even a quiz session " Find the faces".

After many years, when I was trying to engage in a conversaton with my next gen, there is this same notion, "eppadi maama nerla adha paakringa," and there are again imitations and faces.

In my case , the graduation from flinching and sordid to appreciation and admiration was too quick. It was the influence around me that made me not to pay attention to these frivolous matters

Now the point is , especially when the artistes have to carry a graceful image ( music is also all about grace) , is it not important in this social media age?


Balamurali, MS and many carried it well , in spite of speed and power and gamakams.

But I think it is also contagious that comes down from your teacher. I saw sandeep narayan , who in posture , style, movements, and even with coughing imitates Sanjay. I think it happens when you excessively admire someone. Even my 12 year old niece did not fail to perceive it.

One of my teachers when I visited him recently (who also does a lot of gestures) has a Trinity pic and asked his students to face that while singing and instructed them not to look at him . He confided in me that he wants his students to learn music and not to repeat what he does gesture wise.

[ganesh_mourthy]

Oh ,wait! I did not mean to demean Sandeep. I merely said that it automatically happens.

[Purist]

Oh ,wait! I did not mean to demean Sandeep. I merely said that it automatically happens.

That's good "gesture" g-m

[shankarank]

A person who hosted Ritwik Raja also said the same thing about him as well ( replace Sanjay with TMK) - and this includes off stage also - I mean only mannerisms !

And I am trying so hard to prove that music exists in the bones!

[ganesh_mourthy]

Music is inborn. But style is not innate , it is acquired and ... mannerisms too.

I had phrased the topic wrongly. Settai is purely acquired , neither essential nor innate.

And sometimes the voice will have an impact too.

[Rsachi]

Sir,
I don't understand the Tamil word settai, but from what you've written, it seems to be exaggerated mannerism. The word for it in Kannada (from Sanskrit) is Anga Cheshte. ( transliteration aGga cEShTe)

I won't mention who, but I was highly amused when I saw some 15 years ago a young star in CM singing with occasional abhinaya signifying a self-congratulatory Shabhash flourish. I said at that time that the artiste seemed to be stroking his/her horse on a good run.

[Rsachi]

Better still

[rshankar]

Sachi- I'm used to the word cESTai in tamizh as well.

[arasi]

cEshTai in tamizh is used more in the context of the mischief wrought by a child (cETTai is another form). anga cEshTai fits right in, these words born out of sanskrit. A child's cEshTai is also kuRumbu in tamizh.

When pADal (song) is accompanied by ADal (dance), it is anga cEshTai...talaiyATTalum (nodding of the head), kai koTTudalum (clapping the hands), are audience cEshTai

[VK RAMAN]

Many complained that Yesudas sits like a statue while singing meaning no cEshTai.

[varsha]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPAolTGAn1E

internalised

like his Idol whose portrait used to adorn his drawing room Wall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Db_hwOwxGU

the mike distance is a joy to behold.

[ganesh_mourthy]

Yes, it is Seshtai .

But, you can say it as Settai , more colloquial , or CChettai like bombay tamilians.

chakkara, chevvaa kizhama, cheekiram , Chinna ( I think sinna is correct, as argued by some of my friends),

I say Seshtai with some and Settai with some , just to mingle inconspicuously. It is harmless seshtai if done for fun. But I never say Chettai .. that is eeeks.

[arasi]

cETTan cETTa seyyENDAnnu parenyu, kETTeyO kuTTA? or something like that in malayALam? (no profound saying this, but a caution to the tyke that brother had told him not to get into to any mischief!).

In music too, if performance is entertainment,
Not as in singing in the sanctum or pUjA rooms,
Then expression enhances--the measures of it
Is the question: some prefer none, others a bit

Mostly though, excess is tolerated, even ignored--
If what you hear engages and pleases you more...

[VK RAMAN]

Talayalattila cholluvaa "ghOshTi" - ennallaam ghOshTi pannaRaan paadaratta

[arasi]

VKR,
gOshTi is akin to kOti--monkey for its gestures?

[sureshvv]

"Settai" is also employed by voice recalcitrant vidwans to convey their musical ideas - so it becomes both acquired & essential

[thenpaanan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPAolTGAn1E

internalised

like his Idol whose portrait used to adorn his drawing room Wall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Db_hwOwxGU

the mike distance is a joy to behold.

If it was not being recorded they would not even have needed the mic for the Ustad. I dont know how much Voletigaru's voice projected -- from his demeanor it is hard to tell. As I watched the second clip I realized that even though I must have watched it a dozen times already I am still ready to watch it all over again with awe and delight because every time I watch there is something new in there. As the famous Ariyakudi is supposed to have said in a different context, what the Ustad has sung is the same all those times I watched it on Youtube. The change is all on my side.

-Thenpaanan

[thenpaanan]

I think that mannerisms are dangerous because they can actually harm your singing. For example, years ago I used to shake my head vigorously when singing gamakams, only to realize later from secret recordings that my friend had made that only my head was moving not my voice. But at the time of singing I was convinced that the voice was moving as well. It also made me realize that many of the people who were listening to me in those jam sessions were just indulging me -- there was nothing pretty about my mannerisms. Of course there are also well-known vidwans of yore who pointed to the stars when singing high notes. The pointing was aspirational and the sung note was still very much on terra firma.

But, generally speaking, I have come around to thinking that mannerisms are not all bad -- they can be part of the non-verbal communication between artist and audience. The artist communicates "side-channel" to the audience via these mannerisms. The audience communicates back to the artist with its oohs and aahs and shabash. It is all part of the back and forth. I recall a concert in Mumbai back in the day when the vidwan repeatedly knocked the mic stand down but it was all taken humorously by the audience because the music was good. I recall the vidwan saying "inda mic ennoda chanda pOdaradu pOla irukku!" (it looks like the mic wants to fight with me). Who can forget Bhimsen's alternately ploughing the earth and taking off into the sky with his taans, not to speak of his windmills? We did not mind it too much because, first, the music was too good to find fault with, and second, the music was so abstract that the physical gestures may have helped attach some concrete shape to the sound. I remember sitting in a Bombay local on the way back from a Bhimsen concert -- I must have been remembering his gestures (or making my own) -- I was woken from my reverie by a couple of kids who were giggling at me. Ostensibly I was remembering some musical passage from the concert in part based on the wild gesticulations on stage.

My friend Warren says that one has to understand musical performance in the context of the musical culture it is situated in. For instance gospel singers are frequently subject to loud asynchronous exhortations from the audience. Blues singers make faces while performing that is part of the enjoyment. Qawwals have their own gesticulations. Non-verbal gestures of appreciation between artists in a band that is performing are a pan-cultural phenomenon. The forms may be different but the underlying cause and effect are similar. And these non-musical affects are part of the music -- they embellish our enjoyment.

The real problem is when it is overdone.

I guess we, the older set, became inured to artists' gesticulations and faces because a lot of the singers were heard on radio first before we actually got to see some of them on stage. So we were already in awe before we got to see them and their mannerisms. That is not the case any more. I cannot get my kids to sit and listen to a recording unless there is video to go with it.

-Thenpaanan