MS Amma's UN appareance to be honored

prabuddha · Post by **prabuddha** » 10 Aug 2016, 17:03

Sri AR Rahman will do the honors, it's understood.

http://indianexpress.com/article/entert ... y-2966014/

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 10 Aug 2016, 18:09

prabuddha wrote:Sri AR Rahman will do the honors, it's understood.

http://indianexpress.com/article/entert ... y-2966014/

But really?????????

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 10 Aug 2016, 18:47

When UKS students celebrated his 80th at MA, there was not a single Chennai/Tanjore/Madurai musician who he had accompanied, on stage. The way Mridangam was treated by this group - which did nothing to stem the insult - I thought that was appropriate. mansupOlE mAngalyam!

Same goes for MS - we know how hard core rasikas view her! enna adukkAga T. M. Krishnavaya anuppa mudiyum? ( Should we send T.M Krishna or what?

). He would be helping them right a report on human rights violations across the history of CM.

A music community that didn't stand up to this guy enough loses the privilege of sending one of it's own.

Further considering that this is world stage - we need an equally popular personality who borrowed heavily from CM melody to do the honors.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 11 Aug 2016, 00:48

My 'really' still holds....I mean, is this organized by the Government of India? If so, a big REALLY? If it's the UN, then a bigger one, REALLY?

shankarank wrote:He would be helping them right a report on human rights violations across the history of CM.

I am sure he thinks he's righting many a wrong - Lord knows, he writes enough about it!

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 11 Aug 2016, 07:02

There are many deserving Vidwans/vidushis in CM who could have done the honors in UN.Rehman however good/popular he may be does not represent what MS stood for.This decision is unfortunate and there is no opposition to it.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 11 Aug 2016, 07:31

rshankar wrote:I am sure he thinks he's righting many a wrong - Lord knows, he writes enough about it!

Yeah he writes enough - but doesn't mean he is read widely.. Magsaysays and UN etc add that much more damage!

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 11 Aug 2016, 07:51

Not only that, it may also result in the name of MS amma being used to deliberate on《cough, cough》patriarchy, supression of freedom, caste conversions, women's rights and the immature, but highly influential socio political views of 《sneeze》 modern feminism.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 11 Aug 2016, 13:57

rshankar wrote:But really?????????

Says it all. The only better single "word" response that I can think of is a common three-letter abbreviation that begins with a W and ends with a letter which stands for a word that might not be acceptable here.

What The ........?

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 11 Aug 2016, 14:55

MS amma is first a carnatic musician and she represented carnatic music in UN. The world population is 7.4 billion , assuming less than 0.1 billion know or just aware of CM , it was a wonderful opportunity to market Carnatic music to unwashed masses. They could have called 5 or 6 musicians from CM world and presented a concert together(as it is difficult for one big star to fit ms amma legacy).

We lost an opportunity to present CM which is still being thought as it is south indian music generally performed within a few communities. Rahman's first few years certainly had the right punch of melody, I hope he is not going to tune another Jai HO and sing mujhE salaam with the latest Intel technology that sachi has posted . Rest of the world of 7.3 billion will start thinking that Jai HO like futuristic tune is the same as carnatic music .

IIRC, I think ms amma started in 1966 with rama nannu brova and sarasaksha ,what a fall it is going to be in UN to continue with MS legacy.

Cienu,
Who decided this , any information on the panel . By any chance was your family consulted before arriving at the decision?

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 11 Aug 2016, 14:59

People, people. Here's a bitter pill to swallow. Just merit alone doesn't mean you'll be entitled to what you deserve. You will have to work for your opportunities. You must show your presence to be seen.

A R Rahman is also a great name in is own field and probably got the opportunity because he tried or was known and available.

Of course in this context, I think TMK is really the best person for the job, but given a chance there will be subtext no doubt. I personally don't like it that the sweet old lady's name is used for "complicated stuff".

On the other hand I wonder, if it was given to a CM musician, would it be Sangita Kalanidhi 2015 all over again?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 11 Aug 2016, 16:35

The most popular/populist of carnatic musicians would, at least have been carnatic musicians, and, as ambassadors to an unknowing world, would possibly have been good choices.

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 11 Aug 2016, 17:28

A full length TMK concert at the UN would have actually been a refreshingly classy affair as I don't think others countries would bother about things like order of items and all. If he brought that intensity that he did when I heard him last at IITM (and he did this in his usual slow tempos to such an extent I wanted only silence and meditation after the concert), that would be quite something. The only concern would be the time limit.

Just hope he doesn't use it to do as what he has officially on record stated - "Say stuff to get people to think". That can be done best on another day.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 11 Aug 2016, 22:27

One dreads the tiger's teeth in the throat, but, sadly, it isn't going to happen, so I guess I can [relatively] safely say that it is a job that I would give to Aruna Sairam.

prabuddha · Post by **prabuddha** » 12 Aug 2016, 02:33

MS Amma sang Meera bhajans, Gujarati songs, Rabindra Sangeet apart from CM. She had an all India figure as a musician, not merely as a CM vidushi. Many awards got added glory upon being associated with her name i.e., Magsaysay, SK, Kalidasa Samman, Desikottama, Bharat Ratna etc etc She represented India and her music in the cause of world peace and understanding eventhough the late Sri CV Narasimhan introduced her as a CM vidushi.

Now who can do justice to the 50th anniversary of such a mahanubhava's presence in the UN? Some one else who represents Indian music at an all India level, for sure, and has some international recognition too. By common consent, no one seems to come within striking distance of Sri ARR.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Aug 2016, 08:17

Nick H wrote:What The ........?[/i]

Nick, that was the first expression that popped into my mind when I saw the post! But then, I decided to be a bit temperate in my written response!

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 12 Aug 2016, 10:07

Aishwarya Srinivasan would have done justice. I am not flattering. She reminds one of MS substantially and carries the studied training under her grandmother. It would have been fitting if both of them shared the stage and celebrated the event.

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 12 Aug 2016, 11:15

Another vidushi singing in UN - Sudha raghunathan....

While we celebrate our independence day in a few days, I have another reason to feel proud and happy about being an Indian. On the occasion of the birthday of our most precious son of the soil, the Mahatma, I am happy to share with you all that I will be singing in the United Nations at New York on 2 Oct, 2016. In honor of the Mahatma, this is also the International Day of Non Violence. I feel proud and privileged that my carnatic music will echo in the halls of the United Nations - after none other than Bharat Ratna MS Amma.

I need all your good wishes on this memorable occasion.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Aug 2016, 12:36

prabuddha wrote:MS Amma sang Meera bhajans, Gujarati songs, Rabindra Sangeet apart from CM. She had an all India figure as a musician, not merely as a CM vidushi. Many awards got added glory upon being associated with her name i.e., Magsaysay, SK, Kalidasa Samman, Desikottama, Bharat Ratna etc etc She represented India and her music in the cause of world peace and understanding eventhough the late Sri CV Narasimhan introduced her as a CM vidushi.

Now who can do justice to the 50th anniversary of such a mahanubhava's presence in the UN? Some one else who represents Indian music at an all India level, for sure, and has some international recognition too. By common consent, no one seems to come within striking distance of Sri ARR.

Pedler of pop to the masses? Well, ok, I can see that, by definition, and comparing the cinema audience sizes with sabhas, that he represents more Indians, and if that is the measure, then yes.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 12 Aug 2016, 13:34

Any one from popular classic genre and assuming females are given the slot,then Sudha raghunathan/Aruna sairam could have been selected.Here i do not grudge a female artist sent to UN.The music fraternity should express dissent for the present selection however popular he may be.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Aug 2016, 13:53

Here i do not grudge a female artist sent to UN

Why would you ever do so?

The music fraternity should express dissent for the present selection however popular he may be.

We are doing, but... not even TMK reads this forum!

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 12 Aug 2016, 14:28

Now I wonder why no one considered Ravikiran's name for an occasion like this.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 12 Aug 2016, 14:45

Post#20
However classical and pure music, they produce Sumitra Vasudev type will never be considered for such slots.But definitely the very crowd pulling ones only can be considered to pass through the committees.Even there someone seems to have pulled a fast one and named a Cine artist to represent the purest Classical bani from India.What a pity and a great shame?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Aug 2016, 16:24

On such an occasion, a multinational crowd with varied degrees of interest in music needs to be entertained. The "crowd pullers" know how to do that. My example, Aruna Sairam would do it superbly and would potentially sow the seed of interest in Indian music among the susceptible. I gather from my elder friends here that MSS knew how to sing to a non-carnatic, even non-Indian audience.

Anyway, the decision is made, and all we can do is grumble. I'm embarrassed at the idea of ARR "representing" anything even vaguely connected with my musical interests.

We are, currently, having a bad time at the hands of international decisions!

Ponbhairavi · Post by **Ponbhairavi** » 12 Aug 2016, 17:01

yes I agree with Nick, Aruna Sairam accompanied BY VVsubramaniam TK murthy and Vinayakram.

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 12 Aug 2016, 18:20

Cultural incongruence— Rahman paying tribute to MS by Gowri Ramnarayan.

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 12 Aug 2016, 18:31

I am expecting sooner or later that CM will be accused of being genre intolerant... but of course that's not new.

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 12 Aug 2016, 18:52

Frankly, I don't like these "nostalgic" commomerations, MS or not. Makes no sense, no value and didn't make any difference other than some chest pumping in the 60's and every time either UN or MS is mentioned. TMK and Kejriwal can have a jugalbandhi for all I care Or the GREAT grand-daughter, or Bombay Jayashree or Aruna Sairam or Sudha Raghunathan etc etc.

Bah, humbug.

kvchellappa · Post by **kvchellappa** » 12 Aug 2016, 20:52

Saw this in FB:
http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/un- ... 978951.ece

It appears that Rehman's programme is an event in its own right, a second after MS, may be nothing to do to commemorate MS singing there?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Aug 2016, 22:39

... Cultural incongruence. The Literary Lady nails it in two perfect words.

Originally Carnatic vocalists Bombay Jayashree and Sudha Raghunathan were to commemorate this event. They were edged out by Rahman’s extravaganza.

So there was a lot more to it that one committee blindly making a stupid and incongruous choice.

By the way, I've seen ARR perform, and it was back in the day when he had written some good tunes that I didn't at all mind my then girlfriend playing CDs of. Was it great? Well, no... actually. OK, but not great.

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 14 Aug 2016, 19:06

MaheshS wrote:Frankly, I don't like these "nostalgic" commomerations, MS or not. Makes no sense, no value and didn't make any difference other than some chest pumping in the 60's and every time either UN or MS is mentioned. TMK and Kejriwal can have a jugalbandhi for all I care Or the GREAT grand-daughter, or Bombay Jayashree or Aruna Sairam or Sudha Raghunathan etc etc.

Bah, humbug.

In the imaginary, utopian world of Chomskyism where there is no manufactured consent and propaganda/PR are absent to the core, what you say may be correct. But we live in the world full for propaganda and PR and on top of that manufactured discontent and dissent!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 14 Aug 2016, 21:50

No doubt you are right, but I'll go with MaheshS: bah, humbug

But on the other hand, it would have been nice if a good carnatic concert had happened. And in the circumstances, what is happening is just not right. ARR should never have been even mentioned, or should have done the decent thing and said that he is not the man for the job. But perhaps he has come to believe his own PR.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 15 Aug 2016, 09:27

I am quite empathetic to the 'bah, humbug' thinking. May be it is due to the way in which it is handled. It does not feel like ARR is even remotely the most appropriate choice given that he is known for his noisy music that is totally antithetical to the aesthetics of CM. More on this below but I think my point of view may be partially similar to what shankarank is saying.

These symbolisms act as anchors and hence are important. The immediate example that comes to my mind is the celebration/remembrance of 11th September. Not the tragic 9/11 but that is the day Vivekananda gave his first speech in Chicago in 1893 at the Parliament of World's Religions. There are various societies and associations that celebrate the day. Some call it the Universal Brotherhood day. I did not have time to read this thread fully and so someone may have already brought up this comparison. While there are differences with the topic at hand, one can see the similarities as well. Such major events act as anchors to bring a lot of people on the same wavelength for a day and that additive effect is quite meaningful. I think most people accept it because the day is remembered tastefully and appropriately. People also believe that it propagates the concepts of Hindu spirituality.

So the concept itself is not 'bah, humbug' and it need not necessarily be about self promotions of the people involved but it can be about when carnatic music seeds sown sometime earlier began to sprout. Rock and Roll people debate all the time about when it all began and when it peaked etc. ( btw, that is 1966 ! ). Like that we can debate about such things and MS's UN appearance can figure in that debate.

Now a CM concert is probably the most appropriate thing for this occasion and ARR is not, but he has tremendous star power. He is not a foreigner to CM, he has some great film hits based on CM ragas, including a very recent one that I wrote about a few weeks back. He can use his star power and knowledge of CM to anchor the program while keeping it close to CM idiom and keeping away the noisy music he is equally capable of. And be humble about it and act as the messenger rather than the message, and honor MS and the other CM greats of that time who contributed to keeping CM vibrant and the awesome art form it is.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Aug 2016, 13:12

You could be right VK. And maybe he will do something that is as close to appropriate as possible. Certainly he surely knows music.

A while back, after I had personally caught up with a little bit of the reality of India, I began to see that the BBC's hackneyed use of sitar/tabla as the background music to any Indian street scene was ridiculously far from the truth. Film music was the background music of the Indian street (The BBC caught up in the end). Film music certainly represents India.

I only know about this concert from this thread. I have gathered that it is not about representing India, but about the commemoration of a unique event. ARR may surprise, but still, to me, seems as far into fractal wrongness as one could be.* As wrong as sending a string quartet to play music by the real Mozart.

*Yes, of course it doesn't matter how far in one is, as it will be the same.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 15 Aug 2016, 18:14

I started this chain of responses....but I never meant to shoot the 'messenger' (AR), but the goons who dreamed up this idea in the first place. And I do not think they went through the process outlined by VK and others.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 16 Aug 2016, 11:27

Just googling now , the AR rehman event on ms amma anniversary is over in newyork. Did any newyorker attend the event- any first hand updates would be welcome. There is few points mentioned on what Rehman performed right now in web- but the content is too light . If you could tell us what all he performed that would be great.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 16 Aug 2016, 13:12

shankarank wrote: In the imaginary, utopian world of Chomskyism :

Chomsky has no imagination. You must be talking about someone else.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 16 Aug 2016, 13:26

these symbolisms act as anchors and hence are important.

vk . you are so right. As always

A GREAT man of letters or any great artist is symbolic without knowing it. The things he describes are types because they are truths. Shakespeare may or may not have ever put it to himself that Richard the Second was a philosophical symbol; but all good criticism must necessarily see him so. It may be a reasonable question whether an artist should be allegorical. There can be no doubt among sane men that a critic should be allegorical.

........
God is not a symbol of goodness. Goodness is a symbol of God.
Introduction to 'Great Expectations.......
'

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 16 Aug 2016, 13:37

rajeshnat wrote:Just googling now , the AR rehman event on ms amma anniversary is over in newyork. ...

So it is all done, over, dusted. We can forget about it.

I don't think it even got a mention in the press here? Maybe The Hindu fashion-magazine-wannabe (used to be a newspaper) might give some belated comment.

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 16 Aug 2016, 15:46

Ok Nick, but you've been warned, you asked for it.

But now I understand it myself.

http://movies.ndtv.com/music/it-was-spe ... mi-1444601
http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 994186.ece

Dil Se rEEEEEEEEE..... (At the very least, that could have been in tune, then it might have had something in common)
Jai HOOOO!

And so much for MS ...

why did they even bother mentioning her at all?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 16 Aug 2016, 22:18

Well, I didn't exactly ask for it

But now I can't say I never saw it.

Can't be sure, but don't think I would have been one of the ones cheering.

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 17 Aug 2016, 03:08

Bah, humbug

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 17 Aug 2016, 08:06

SrinathK wrote:
Dil Se rEEEEEEEEE..... (At the very least, that could have been in tune, then it might have had something in common)
Jai HOOOO!

And so much for MS ... why did they even bother mentioning her at all?

I guessed the Jai HO would come and indeed it came . There is a mention some students/kids who are bit acclimitized with Carnatic Music also participated . Did any number like maithreem bhajatha and/or kurai onrum illai ever find a way.
Ms amma used to occasionally play piano/keyboard also , ar rehman atleast gave that part .

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 24 Aug 2016, 09:20

Lets conduct a Gedankan ( or Thought) experiment Feynman style. What would have been the reaction of all those above if Sikkil/Anil had performed their routine instead of Rehman?

After all Sikkil is closely related?

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 24 Aug 2016, 10:01

Content
Delivery
Branding
Occasion
Mood
Build-up
Oomph
Media
Big-name blessings
Currency/Contemporaneity

DENKEN SIE DARAN!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Aug 2016, 13:37

shankarank wrote:What would have been the reaction of all those above if Sikkil/Anil had performed their routine instead of Rehman? ... ... ...

Some of the hard-liners would still hold that nothing less than a concert in traditional format would be acceptable.

Even though it is two years since I had a great conversation with him at a function, I am still yet to see Anil. I guess I'm just not very adventurous in my music-going

. So I don't really know what it might have been like, but, for the all the accusations of snobbery that may be made against me (guilty!) I would surmise that it must be superior too ARR, because, at least, neither content nor presentation would have been pop rubbish.

So, if they wanted to modernise the thing in some way, yes... this might have been a way to go.

By the way, who, or what organisation, was actually responsible for the ARR-at-UN travesty? Name and shame!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 24 Aug 2016, 13:55

Answer to Nick's question, "Who?" : Syed Akbaruddin
https://g.co/kgs/vAvXfL

But to put this in perspective, if you were to feel offended at the choice of ARR, you have to be a Carnatic ghetto dweller, AND someone unswayed by ARR's enormous charm and accomplishment.
That represents around 1.6 * 10 ^ - 6 probability =0.0000016 of Indians.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Aug 2016, 23:05

Next time I'm looking for a UN Representative, remind me not to interview Mr Akbaruddin!

you have to be a Carnatic ghetto dweller, AND someone unswayed by ARR's enormous charm and accomplishment.

Yes and yes, I suppose. Accomplishment? Apparently he should get that Mag-something award.

The world is full of people, from all the cultures, who have churned out really good pop rubbish!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 28 Aug 2016, 08:59

Carnatic ghetto??? Really???????