Much of literary criticism is about the experience or the ambiguities (e.g. is Hamlet mad?), not about what the author has not done or how he could have done it better. It does point to inconsistencies and seeks to find explanation, but the author’s decision is unalterable.
Sanjay remarked about music criticism being varied, often not on the performance but on the ideas of the critic.
Is there a lakshana for criticism of a live performance? Has it to be defining the performance (what it should have been) or point to its anchor (what of it contributed to its appeal)? A poor choice of criticism is not worth discussing. To deserve criticism, a performance must commend itself. We can dismiss it otherwise as not worth our time at least over and above what we have already allotted by attending it.
A performance worth a word may have often deviations from the standard it set for itself. That happens for a variety of reasons, including maybe even the artist’s momentary casualness. The overall appeal discounts such lapses. The point is, should they be publicly recorded or shared with the artist as Sri Mahadevan (Sri MKR’s father) would do, as I read?
Subbudu brought an extra ‘kick’ in his reviews. There are those that relish it and those that treat it as rubbish. Some sort of comedy is part of a drama (film) however flimsy. Is it required? Does it add to the value of the art?
We have among the rasikas some very knowledgeable, balanced and interesting critics, superior to the paid ones who get the call from the press for whatever reason. Hope they find it worth their thought to add substance to this discussion, raised by me as an ‘outsider’.
Criticism on criticism
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SrinathK
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10
Re: Criticism on criticism
KVC, My take on this is simple. In it's crudest and most primal form -- Any anonymous moron could do it !
Even at our levels, a critic's job is always going to be orders of magnitude easier compared to the musicians' -- we all know we could never meet our own standards even if we tried. What pains me is when sometimes it becomes a venting ground for deep personal and irrational grudges, which are on the side of internet trolling rather than artistic and rational sensibility. Such people also have little or nothing of real substance to offer as an end user.
But end user feedback is extremely important to evaluate any product or service -- we can't feel guilty or hypocritical for offering feedback, provided it is done as a real rasika of class and calibre and not some bigoted troll. There is a certain standard beyond which we can see for ourselves that this is a good review or even a great one. Crowd sourcing experiences, rather than ads or marketing is a far more reliable way of estimating and improving a product or service. Only in the case of music, the musicians are both creators AND rasikas AND their own critics too -- a one man experience if I could call it that. So it means as much to them as it does to us, and this occasionally lead to what I call "Values dissonance", which is where the majority of our (actually few) issues with musicians lie.
If you look at the stats of any great video on the Tube, the ratio of likes to dislikes is a steady 85-99% (rarely do you get 0 dislikes, but yes, it happens!). The 5 star rating system also really does work when the no. of reviewers and good reviews gets sufficiently large. Among the dislikes most are troll reviews, many more have to do with delivery issues rather than content, a couple are genuine differences of opinion or taste and are expressed with good temperament.
So thanks to the power of statistics and sample sizes, I have not lost faith in humanity.
Even at our levels, a critic's job is always going to be orders of magnitude easier compared to the musicians' -- we all know we could never meet our own standards even if we tried. What pains me is when sometimes it becomes a venting ground for deep personal and irrational grudges, which are on the side of internet trolling rather than artistic and rational sensibility. Such people also have little or nothing of real substance to offer as an end user.
But end user feedback is extremely important to evaluate any product or service -- we can't feel guilty or hypocritical for offering feedback, provided it is done as a real rasika of class and calibre and not some bigoted troll. There is a certain standard beyond which we can see for ourselves that this is a good review or even a great one. Crowd sourcing experiences, rather than ads or marketing is a far more reliable way of estimating and improving a product or service. Only in the case of music, the musicians are both creators AND rasikas AND their own critics too -- a one man experience if I could call it that. So it means as much to them as it does to us, and this occasionally lead to what I call "Values dissonance", which is where the majority of our (actually few) issues with musicians lie.
If you look at the stats of any great video on the Tube, the ratio of likes to dislikes is a steady 85-99% (rarely do you get 0 dislikes, but yes, it happens!). The 5 star rating system also really does work when the no. of reviewers and good reviews gets sufficiently large. Among the dislikes most are troll reviews, many more have to do with delivery issues rather than content, a couple are genuine differences of opinion or taste and are expressed with good temperament.
So thanks to the power of statistics and sample sizes, I have not lost faith in humanity.
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arasi
- Posts: 16877
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
Re: Criticism on criticism
Srinath,
I see that as I was typing, you have posted
Your post is worth reading again...
Chellappa,
August, and I barely have time to participate in discussions--why, even glance at posts
On the other hand, it's family time in full force, and I love it!
This is the first thread I'm looking at in a while, and it makes me wonder. Yes, knowledge of a subject, deep love for it and wanting to share one's views with others are all assets. Many such rasikAs are among us, and we are all excited to have several such discerning, extremely bright folks coming into the fold. More power to Rasikas.org, the administrator, moderators and members
It so happens that I was reading a literary review yesterday and loved it--for the same reason that you bring up here. This seasoned reviewer has such a feel for the writing of an established writer. Here and there, he hits a spot which he feels goes into the zone of ambiguity (it's a collection of short pieces).
He then goes back to them again, one piece in particular and records how he had missed the point--all lucidly, retracing his steps, and this time with gained knowledge.
Coming to CM music reviews, yes, Subbudu knew a lot about CM, has an instinct for it, and his personality took over in many instances, his likes and dislikes making bold strokes of negativism in his writing.
To look at it in the reverse, even pearl, which is born out of an irritant, is again tossed in an irritating element, such as a personal grudge. Then, a performance, as you say is what matters and is the matter which matters, gets a bit out of hand. Reminds me of the remedy wherein the doc said the patient was bound to be cured, only if he would refrain from ever thinking of a monkey!
I see that as I was typing, you have posted
Chellappa,
August, and I barely have time to participate in discussions--why, even glance at posts
This is the first thread I'm looking at in a while, and it makes me wonder. Yes, knowledge of a subject, deep love for it and wanting to share one's views with others are all assets. Many such rasikAs are among us, and we are all excited to have several such discerning, extremely bright folks coming into the fold. More power to Rasikas.org, the administrator, moderators and members
It so happens that I was reading a literary review yesterday and loved it--for the same reason that you bring up here. This seasoned reviewer has such a feel for the writing of an established writer. Here and there, he hits a spot which he feels goes into the zone of ambiguity (it's a collection of short pieces).
He then goes back to them again, one piece in particular and records how he had missed the point--all lucidly, retracing his steps, and this time with gained knowledge.
Coming to CM music reviews, yes, Subbudu knew a lot about CM, has an instinct for it, and his personality took over in many instances, his likes and dislikes making bold strokes of negativism in his writing.
To look at it in the reverse, even pearl, which is born out of an irritant, is again tossed in an irritating element, such as a personal grudge. Then, a performance, as you say is what matters and is the matter which matters, gets a bit out of hand. Reminds me of the remedy wherein the doc said the patient was bound to be cured, only if he would refrain from ever thinking of a monkey!
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sureshvv
- Posts: 5542
- Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 18:17
Re: Criticism on criticism
Critics are like artistes in that you find some of them to your taste on a consistent basis and some of them not.
And some artistes seem to bring the best out of critics, I still remember a review of Sri SVK of a concert of Sowmya's at KGS & don't remember such uninhibited adulation. It was as if he had gone to heaven & come back. Most of the time he comes across as stern & stodgy. That he could get as ebullient as an infatuated teenager was a revelation in itself.
And some artistes seem to bring the best out of critics, I still remember a review of Sri SVK of a concert of Sowmya's at KGS & don't remember such uninhibited adulation. It was as if he had gone to heaven & come back. Most of the time he comes across as stern & stodgy. That he could get as ebullient as an infatuated teenager was a revelation in itself.
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varsha
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06
Re: Criticism on criticism
kvc
Many years ago I had compiled a set of thoughts on this lively subject for my blog . Here is a recap.
Of course I have grown wiser since then.
But this has stayed indelible
Treat a work of art as though you are a Prince.
Let it speak to you first…Schopenhaue
https://rasayanakarnatic.wordpress.com/ ... reciation/
Many years ago I had compiled a set of thoughts on this lively subject for my blog . Here is a recap.
Of course I have grown wiser since then.
But this has stayed indelible
Treat a work of art as though you are a Prince.
Let it speak to you first…Schopenhaue
https://rasayanakarnatic.wordpress.com/ ... reciation/
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kvchellappa
- Posts: 3637
- Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 13:54
Re: Criticism on criticism
Thanks Varsha.
I liked, as I have a weakness for, Twain and Wilde.
I liked, as I have a weakness for, Twain and Wilde.
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SrinathK
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: 13 Jan 2013, 16:10
Re: Criticism on criticism
"In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes." - Benjamin Franklin
Let's change that a bit :
In a musician's world nothing can be said to be certain, except -- music, death, and critics

Let's change that a bit :
In a musician's world nothing can be said to be certain, except -- music, death, and critics
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munirao2001
- Posts: 1334
- Joined: 28 Feb 2009, 11:35
Re: Criticism on criticism
I am posting a part of my article on music criticism published in Samudhra
"Critic and the role
Critic is an individual, who takes up the challenge willingly to aid or support the listeners/readers to fully reflect, understand, appreciate, enjoy and promote the cause of music. The critic communicates with the readers, who have already experienced the performance and also the larger population, who did not experience the performance, in a direct manner. The critic has the twin tasks of understanding and appreciating the music of the artists himself and creatively recreating, through the judicious and imaginative usage of choicest of words, the musical listening experience to the reader.
A Critic, internalizing the higher ideals, values and goals in classical music, with firm grounding in both the theory and practice of music and with the command of the knowledge, language, expressions and effect, dons various roles, of his choice and quality.
A critic has to assume the responsibility and accountability of being the true reflector of original composer and the performer to the listeners; he judges and delivers judgment on the performance and the performer; he is a good interpreter bringing clarity on the values of music of the performer; is an entertainer, who delivers real listening experience, very interestingly and arrestingly; is a propagandist for higher values in music and to the meritorious and deserving performer; is a motivator and charmer and finally a researcher, guide and mentor. Thus a critic backed by accurate knowledge, trust, unconditioned mind, free from bias, prejudice, mutual respect and support established firmly between the performer, him and the listener/rasika is a favorable situation for the art."
"Historical Perspectives
Historically, the critic assumed the role of a philosopher, with clear leanings towards the religious values, dear to him/her. Exhibition of their talents in the chosen language, in writing, took a very important role. The criticisms were mostly judgmental, keeping judicious balance between both the aspects of theory and practice of music. The communication mostly consisted of self opinion and review or criticism of their work, were rejected. Some of the critics resorted to motivated propaganda, in a subtle manner. In the absence of clear rules, tools and the methodology, the criticisms were literary. The performers, rarely, respected the critics. The readers/listeners became prejudiced, easily."
"Current context
With the development of modern methodology in musicology, technology, publishing, higher education, promotional needs of the performer and the publisher, increase in opportunities for performing, positive attempt at corrective actions by the performer, critic and the publishers, presently, we have many talented critics, with high reputation and standing.
On the flip side existence of multiple publications has resulted in the publishers/editors getting tempted to enlist/enroll many critics, who are not well qualified or talented, but can meet the editorial challenges and requirements, cleverly. This has resulted in critics restricting their roles to being reviewers or reporters. With the domination of visual media over the print media, the listeners and readers have started ignoring or not taking the criticisms in print, seriously. Editors of the few publications, who continue to extend support to music criticism, hardly get any feed back."
"Future Trends
With the rapid development in communication and publishing in the present day and in the near future, there will be both the dangers of erosion of higher ideology and values in criticism and entry of all the individuals with urge to communicate and publish, without responsibility and accountability. Revenue maximization will be the top most priority. There is the real danger of trivialization, affecting the performers, critics and the listeners/readers. Art of criticism will take new methods of visual expressions and communications, more than the words. The intrinsic quality of music, will suffer. With diminishing support for the criticism columns by the publishers of the print media, Critics will be forced to submit ‘breaking news’ reports rather than the reviews and criticisms. State is likely to intervene more frequently to bring controls. Controls, even though well intended, are likely to be abused.
On the optimistic side though the need for corrective actions are recognized and being discussed. The dialogue has been started. With commitment, spirited and active participation, dedication to the cause of music, better understanding and clarity of actions and results are expected, soon."
"Critic and the role
Critic is an individual, who takes up the challenge willingly to aid or support the listeners/readers to fully reflect, understand, appreciate, enjoy and promote the cause of music. The critic communicates with the readers, who have already experienced the performance and also the larger population, who did not experience the performance, in a direct manner. The critic has the twin tasks of understanding and appreciating the music of the artists himself and creatively recreating, through the judicious and imaginative usage of choicest of words, the musical listening experience to the reader.
A Critic, internalizing the higher ideals, values and goals in classical music, with firm grounding in both the theory and practice of music and with the command of the knowledge, language, expressions and effect, dons various roles, of his choice and quality.
A critic has to assume the responsibility and accountability of being the true reflector of original composer and the performer to the listeners; he judges and delivers judgment on the performance and the performer; he is a good interpreter bringing clarity on the values of music of the performer; is an entertainer, who delivers real listening experience, very interestingly and arrestingly; is a propagandist for higher values in music and to the meritorious and deserving performer; is a motivator and charmer and finally a researcher, guide and mentor. Thus a critic backed by accurate knowledge, trust, unconditioned mind, free from bias, prejudice, mutual respect and support established firmly between the performer, him and the listener/rasika is a favorable situation for the art."
"Historical Perspectives
Historically, the critic assumed the role of a philosopher, with clear leanings towards the religious values, dear to him/her. Exhibition of their talents in the chosen language, in writing, took a very important role. The criticisms were mostly judgmental, keeping judicious balance between both the aspects of theory and practice of music. The communication mostly consisted of self opinion and review or criticism of their work, were rejected. Some of the critics resorted to motivated propaganda, in a subtle manner. In the absence of clear rules, tools and the methodology, the criticisms were literary. The performers, rarely, respected the critics. The readers/listeners became prejudiced, easily."
"Current context
With the development of modern methodology in musicology, technology, publishing, higher education, promotional needs of the performer and the publisher, increase in opportunities for performing, positive attempt at corrective actions by the performer, critic and the publishers, presently, we have many talented critics, with high reputation and standing.
On the flip side existence of multiple publications has resulted in the publishers/editors getting tempted to enlist/enroll many critics, who are not well qualified or talented, but can meet the editorial challenges and requirements, cleverly. This has resulted in critics restricting their roles to being reviewers or reporters. With the domination of visual media over the print media, the listeners and readers have started ignoring or not taking the criticisms in print, seriously. Editors of the few publications, who continue to extend support to music criticism, hardly get any feed back."
"Future Trends
With the rapid development in communication and publishing in the present day and in the near future, there will be both the dangers of erosion of higher ideology and values in criticism and entry of all the individuals with urge to communicate and publish, without responsibility and accountability. Revenue maximization will be the top most priority. There is the real danger of trivialization, affecting the performers, critics and the listeners/readers. Art of criticism will take new methods of visual expressions and communications, more than the words. The intrinsic quality of music, will suffer. With diminishing support for the criticism columns by the publishers of the print media, Critics will be forced to submit ‘breaking news’ reports rather than the reviews and criticisms. State is likely to intervene more frequently to bring controls. Controls, even though well intended, are likely to be abused.
On the optimistic side though the need for corrective actions are recognized and being discussed. The dialogue has been started. With commitment, spirited and active participation, dedication to the cause of music, better understanding and clarity of actions and results are expected, soon."