Article about RK Shriram Kumar by TM Krishna

[mahavishnu]

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... 162787.ece
Now for something really positive, like the friendship and professional camaraderie between these two.

[thenpaanan]

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday ... 162787.ece
Now for something really positive, like the friendship and professional camaraderie between these two.

I enjoyed reading it very much. Plus there is this great ending line

"May be there is hidden in each, something of the other."

-T

[shankarank]

Yes. Nice writing. Sri RKSK should take some of the advice ( in the realm of commercial interaction especially!) ( I am being prescriptive eh ). - but then he is a dependent Vidwan as an accompanist. So more considerations there!

Don't know why his emotionally packed Lec Dem - Dec 2015 PS Swamy Sabha - where he explains KoluvaiyunnADE's music nicely and so much else has been taken offline!

[arasi]

What a breath of fresh air! Krishna writes about a scholar, vidvAn and of a good friend, with warmth. Very nice! Hope he shares more of his experiences in the realm of music in the media

[sureshvv]

Plus there is this great ending line

"May be there is hidden in each, something of the other."

I say:

Not a chance.

Instead it is because, "Opposites attract".

[munirao2001]

I am sharing my posting in The Hindu online to-day, as given below:

"TMK has beautifully revealed 'hidden RKSK' not only to RKSK, once more in public. I enjoyed very close association with his illustrious family elders Sri RKV and Sri RKS and very happy to observe the very good progress in pilgrimage of path of classicism of RKSK from young and talented to Vidwan of great merits as expressed by TMK. On his beliefs, faith and following, RKSK truly Advaitin, sampradya of his family, verily 'Siva mantramu naa jeevadharamu, Madhava mantramu naa rajeevamu'-St.Thyagaraja's self realization and enlightenment. Greetings & Blessings to RKSK and deep appreciation to TMK."

munirao2001

[shankarank]

So much obsession in the writing about his Brahminical appearance. A bunch of us - tripundrAngitam(wearing the 3 stripes of vibhuti) and dhoti should occupy seats at one of their concerts and do our own version of paTTaiya kilappufying - of a different kind from the one he raved about from Urur Olcott dancing and drum beats.

[Govindaswamy]

Mr .Munirao
I think that the correct wordings in the krithi "evarani nirNayinchirirA" are as below.
Siva manthraminaku ma jIvamu mAdhava manthramunaku rA jIvamu. Is TMK singing as quoted. If so he may refer to the blog spot Thyagaraja vaibhavam of Sri V.GOVINDAN to know the meaning.

[munirao2001]

Govindaswamy Sir, Thyagaraja to clear the doubts about his religious faith to his disciples, admirers and followers established his identity in the line "Siva mantramu NAA jeevadharamu, Madhava mantramu NAA rajeevamu" the quintessential advaita with abheda bhava-Siva and Rama(Madhava, Vishnu), Hari Hara tatva. To make it collective belief and faith, MAA replaced NAA and it is wrong. Your belief on correctness is in acceptance and endorsement of TKG Sir, as an authority. There are other published books for verification and validation.

munirao2001

[Sivaramakrishnan]

TMK & RKSK might be able to strike a balance on the stage.
Not elsewhere.

[vgovindan]

Muniraoji,
Please refer to the link -
http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.in ... anchi.html

If you still think that TKG was right, Good Luck to you.
V Govindan

[arasi]

VG,
Good to hear from you.

Think of you often, since I resort to TyAgarAja vaibhavam ever so often. Hope all goes well with you and your family...

[sureshvv]

If you still think that TKG was right, Good Luck to you.

VG Sir: I think you misunderstood. IIUC, Munirao ji has deemed TKG to be wrong in his comment above in favor of "other published books".

Here is the meaning excerpted from Thyagaraja Vaibhavam website.

For the Siva mantra (mantramunaku) – (OM namaSSivAya) - ‘ma’ is the soul (jIvamu); for the vishNu (mAdhava) mantra (mantramunaku) –(OM namO nArAyanAya) – ‘rA’ is the soul (jIvamu);
I salute (mrokkeda) the great personages (ghanulaku) who understand (telisina) this (I) (jIvamuyI) detail (vivaramu);

.

[vgovindan]

Suresh,
Thanks for correcting me.
I have misunderstood what Munirao said; TKG has correctly given it - just now I referred to his book.

[munirao2001]

The kruthi's opening lines are 'Evarani Ne Nirnayinchedira, Yetlagani Vivarinchedira'. During the times of Thyagaraja and later, the identity of Thyagaraja's school of philosophy was in doubt. Born in Niyogi and Mulakanadu Vaideeki vamsa with Siva as the Vamsa Devata, Thyagaraja's ista devata became Rama, inspired by Valmiki Ramayana and Vyasa Bhagavatha sacred texts. Thyagaraja took one of his mission of Advaita establishing Hari-Hara abhedatva. In 'Geetarthamu-Surati' kruthi the line of 'Hari Hara puthrudu, Hari Hara mithrudu' is one more attempt at establishing his identity. It was not intent of universality of Advaita tatva but intent and content of his own identity of Advaitin, with abhedatva of Hari and Hara for prayer and worship. There was a discussion at MES College, Malleshwaram on Thyagaraja's philosophical identity-Dwaita or Advaita. I had given these details as answer and Sri R.K.Srikantan, an erudite scholar confirmed that my answer was correct.

Taking the 'rootology' of Samskruta and philologically determining and correcting the line of lyric itself to give the content meaning is attempt at universalizing the message. Before the book of Sri TKG, there are few published books containing the Thyagarja Kruthis. We have enough material in published works and manuscripts in Saraswati Mahal Library to establish the clarity, understanding and the identity.

munirao2001

[RaviSri]

'Evarani Ne Nirnayinchedira, Yetlagani Vivarinchedira'.

Sir, the actual words are: evarani nirNayinchirirA (or chEdirA). Your quote is wrong.

In 'Geetarthamu-Surati' kruthi the line of 'Hari Hara puthrudu, Hari Hara mithrudu'

Goodness! Wherefrom did you get these words?

The actual words in the charanam are:
harihara bhAskara kAlAdi karmamu
matamula marmamula neringina
harivara rUpuDu harihaya vinutudu

and not as you have written. And in which manuscript at Saraswati Mahal contains Thyagaraja kritis as you write them and what are the other books that you mention? Please consult authentic texts like 'Spiritual Heritage of Thyagaraja' before you venture to write lines of Thyagaraja kritis and explain them according to your whims and fancies.

[bhakthim dehi]

Munirao sir
Harihara bedam is not advaitam. Viewing Hari and Hara as one is a typical Smarta view of approaching our philosophy.
Even in an early post in this thread, you have mentioned the same. Advaitha is oneness where in an individual realizes himself with the Brahman. This Brahman is not Shiva or Vishnu. At the same time, it can be considered as Shiva or Vishnu. This is Advaitha.

[bhakthim dehi]

Sri Thyagaraja svamy 'so compositions typically reflect the philosophy of Bhakthi cult which came into existence even before his time period. Do interpret his krithis carefully before giving any statement about His krithis.
Tanuvu dhanamu neethe yanti in Kalaharanamelara, Maakelara vicharamu Marukanna Sri Ramachandra are few examples to show the concept of Dvaital. Go through his krithis Karuna ela kante, Bhakthuni charithramu, all refer to ideal characteristics of a bhaktha. I think with these examples you can relate the mentality of the Saint with his predecessors in Bhakthi cult.
Contrast this with nithyaananda ruposmi , brahma Ananda ruposmi (Anandesvarena), Sri guruguha Darshan nocheth Sri guruguha eva aham of Sri Deekshithar. This is Advaitha.

[bhakthim dehi]

What is the reference you have to say Shiva was their kula devata?
Smarta can worship anyone amongst the five: Shiva, Vishnu, Devi, Surya and Ganapathy as their ishta devata.

[munirao2001]

Bhakthim Dehi Sir,

Due to other preoccupation, I was unable to check on lyrics in books and reply to you. Please give me few days more.
In the meanwhile, in my post #15 it is "Thyagaraja took one of his mission of Advaita establishing Hari-Hara abhedatva".

munirao2001

[bhakthim dehi]

I say it again abheda is not advaita. Kindly read my posts 17 and 18 again.

[vgovindan]

bhaktim dehi,
Let us not get into this topic whether abhEda is advaita or not. Please go through this link -
http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/archives ... 24698.html

Thyagaraja was a bhakta - his bhakti being rAga bhakti - though there are some kRtis (dvaitamu sukhamA etc.,) where he asks this ishTha dEvata for clarification on dvaita vs advaita. As opposed to Thyagaraja, MD's bhakti was SAnta bhakti.

It is however correct to say hari-hara abhEda is not advaita - advaita is above such (petty) bhEdas.

[bhakthim dehi]

I do not write here to enter into an argument;rather to share my views and findings and to get new ideas from others. However i cannot stand the posts which project wrong ideologies. I can't tolerate when the real essence of our composer 's works are interpreted only just by skimming through their works.
Anyhow, thanks for the wonderful link.

[shankarank]

There is a position on philosophy I have heard from a sanyasin:

There are only one mArga with two phases : karma and Gnana. Bhakti is there throughout - an attitude towards everything. There are no separate mArgas. Need learned people's views on that.

From Ubhaya vEdanta Sri Velukudi Krishnan in recent discourse - here seems to be the an extension of that. Since karma is prescribed only for tri-varNa males in the Bhagavat Gita, Sri Andal came up with time pass ( kAla kshepam) for the rest ( Women and others) to reach the state! Since many of us males cannot adhere to the karma in this age - we possibly are in the same boat.

The lord may give mukti to a person that is unexpected - but the rishis , munis - tapasvis who are waiting in line will write a line of praise on him for just doing that!

rāmāyana brahmamunaku pēru ( telisi rAma: http://sahityam.net/wiki/Telisi_Rama) : rA - dIrga , ma - hrasva . dIrga/hrasva bheda is brought together in this nAma. dIrga/hrasva bheda constitutes the chandas for all of vEdic practice , memorization and preservation. But even that bheda is dissolved - as vEdas themselves become irrelevant.

We consecrate Temples every 12 years - doing punaruddhAraNa. If the priests simply recite the sanskrit lyrics without following varNa, swara, mAtra and chandas - will we accept the sanctity of such action??

[munirao2001]

Bhatimdehi Sir,
In your post#19, you had asked my source. Source is Walajapet Venkataramana Bhagavata. WVB 's Guruvandana Sloka.
" Vyaso naigama charcharya mrudugiri valmeeka muni:
Vyragyai shuka eva bhakti vishayou pralhada eva svaayam
Brahmananda eva chaspratina yo sahithya sangeeta yoh:
Yo Ramaamruta pana nirjata Sivah tam Thyagarajam bhaje."

On Abhedatatva, my post pertains to Thyagaraja's tatva and not on advaita tatva.

I have posted to answer your question and I am ending my postings.

munirao2001

[bhakthim dehi]

I am not so proficient enough to understand the entire meaning of this verse;though can understand to some extent. If you don't mind to translate the same, I can explain my view.

[NAVNEETH]

In fact to show his Harihara Abhedam, Thyagaraja says in the Anupallavi of the famous Paramathmudu Velige quite beautifully, 'hariyaTa haruDaTa surulaTa narulaTa akhilANDa kOTulaTa andarilO'.