Vijay Siva, Thyaga Brahma Gana sabhA,Vani Mahal on Dec 20th,2016

[grsastrigal]

N Vijay Siva
Manoj Siva
Charumathy raguram
Chandrasekhar Sharma-Ghatam

Date 20-12-2016

Thyaga brahma Gana Sabha

VS has limited concerts this time. He has decided not to perform in Music Academy, MFAC, NGS. I thought of attending some of his concerts as he is always the best in “deliverables” of pure CM

Interesting point needs to be mentioned here. Those who did not attend were fortunate. In the name of innovation, in line TM Krishna , he started one new “concept’ in this concert, which went “ugly"
Let us see the list

• DarbAr- varnam
• Dinamani vamsa-Harikambodhi- (N) in sharva vinuta nanu” and (S) in dinamani vamsa
• Gowlipantu ragam for 3 minute s followed by “teradee yagarAda” (T)
• Bilahari-Sub main- shrI bAlasubrahmaNyA agacchAgragaNya-MD- N in AbAla gOpA vidita dInasharaNya- (S)
• mAyammA-Ahiri-Shyama sastri
• MadhyamAvathy-rAgam- SaravaNa bhava guhanE- P.Sivan
N in “annaiyOdu thandhai nee….. nambinEnE”
• Bairavi- RTP- Kanta jati triupta- pallavi line “ ஆனந்த நடனம் ஆடும் சபை, சித்சபை, ரவி சந்திர அக்னி நயனன்” followed in gowda malhar, vasantha bairavi.
• Tani
• jAvali-samamidhE rArA swami- PSI
• Adu rAttE- nAmakkal rAmalingam pillai- behag and few other rAgAs
• mahAyOga pEEtE- virutham- “pandarEEchA”- PahAdi (Raga set by Violinist R.K.Sriramkumar)
• iyal isai- husEni-Tiruppugaz-ArunagirinAthar.
• Mangalam

Whenever I leave VS’ concert, I feel so sorry for the great musician who has been deprived of (now or never, I don’t know. In my opinion, those who are not performing in MA will not get Sangeetha Kalanidhi (SK), the coveted SK. He deserves it and his photo needs to be placed among the giants in MA wall.

Just folding his hands, (like a student in front of the teacher (those days)), his control over the rAga, at any level, is amazing. Though his bairavi RTP (was taken at 7.55 PM) was short, his rendition was top class. Any rAgA for that sake.

He encouraged his two disciples to render some swarA portion in RtP and they did admirably well. During the concert, CR’s violin strings got detached and she took some time to repair it. VS filled beautifully that gap by rendering the rAgA.

Even in Parthasarathy sabha concert, which was reviewed by sankark, his tOdi, followed by “Sri krishnam bhaja mAnasa” was the best of tOdi, I heard in recent times. With Trichy Sankaran (in PSS), he created an aura of beautiful music around us.

Manoj Siva & CSS are one of the top 5 pairs to watch. Together they perform well. Understanding and execution are perfect sync.

Violinist does not need any appreciation. At this young age, her talent is exemplary.

Let me come to the main point. VS had two screens ,as you see in Corporate Board Rooms, on both his sides. When I entered the hall, I was surprised to see the screens, the words of his song appear in the screens in Tamil and meaning in English. I thought the sabhA has fixed it for all the concerts for the rasikAs to know the rAgAs and the kritis and of course, meaning. Later, I came to know that is the "product" of VS.

It was new to me and though I enjoyed it initially and after some time, I felt irritated for the following reasons:

• The font size in not uniform and sometimes, I don’t see what is written in English, sitting in the second row.
• I don’t want to know the meaning of any of the kritis as I have listened these kritis, so far, without knowing the meaning. If you ask me, what is the meaning “dinamani vamsa”, I don’t know even today, though, I have heard this song at least 50 times. I know only the news paper “dina mani”
• Even if the rAgA identification sake, those rasikAs in Vani mahAl, definitely knows, madhymavathi and bairavi. This does not need any screen
• It is a distraction for me from listening the music.
• The good part is, meaning of mAyamma and abhang (pahadi), as appeared in the screen was very good and really made me to appreciate the composers. Some tamil words need correction like காமாக்க்ஷி

All well, now come to climax.

• When jAvali was sung by VS, he also tried to show the meaning in the SCREEN. That was where the problem started. All of us know about jAvali and the meaning. It is better not to sing in concert and even one sings, not to discuss the meaning.
• It was so bad on the part of VS to show the English translations like “my husband is not there’, my father in law is also not there”, you e…..ed me, last night….etc….
• I was shocked to see the lines and even the violinist was so embarrassed along with other artists. It was very disturbing for the rasikAs. The “project” was managed by two young girls and one boy. (at the end, I talked to them, in general). I don’t know how these kids felt.
I don’t want to tell more about this, but, this is not in good taste that to from a senior artist VS. His guru DKJ would not have agreed for this.
I thought for a while whether it is “UA” certifed CM Concert !!!!

[rajeshnat]

Vijay Siva@Vani Mahal on Dec 20th,2016
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Vocal : Vijay Siva
Vocal support : By two sishyas who also played tambura (I would like to know their names)

Violin : Charumathi Raghuraman
Mrudangam : Manoj Siva
Ghatam : chandrasekara sharma

Concert Type : Nirvana - No concert to follow and Ticketed concert
Day/Duration : Tuesday -2 and 1/2 hours
Sabha : Sree Thyaga brahma gana sabha, vanimahal


1. LAte... assuming I missed only one
2. dinamani vamsa (???,S)- harikAmbOdhi -T

3. teratiyaga rAdhA (R)- gowlipantu -T
3 mins alapana and 2 mins violin return

4. shree balasubramanyA (R N S)- bilahari -MD
6 mins alapana and nearly the same violin return
6 mins neraval in aAhbAla gopala dheera sharanya
6 mins swaras
5.mAyamma -Ahiri- SS

6.saravana bhava guhanE (R N) - madyamavati - psivan
8 mins alapana and 6 mins violin return
4 mins neraval in annaiyOdu thanthai nee vazhvil anaithum enru naminEn

7A. RTP in bhairavi for 30 minutes
alapana for 9 mins with violin return
taanam for 7 mins
pallavi line --->>>> ananda nadamAdum sabhai chitsabhai ravi chandra agni nayanan
taalam was kanda jAthi triputa

swaras in bhairavi + kapinarayani + lalita????
7B. tani for 21 mins

8. samayammidhE rA rA nA swami - behag javali- patnam
9. aadu rAtte suzhandu Aadu raatee - shenjurutti?? + punnagavarAli + nadanAmakriya - namakkal kavignar ramalingam pillai

10. mahayOga - pahadi - Gnaneshwar (Abhang)
tuned by RKSK with jAlrA addition
11 . iyal isai - husEni -AGN
12. mangalam

[rajeshnat]

One of my favourite top 4 musicians for me is vijay siva. I was bit late atleast 10 mintues , he was just looping back to dinamani vamsa and starting with the round of swaras .

He started next with the alapana of gowlipantu the jeeva pidis were there and vijay sang a lovely teratiyaka . Bilahari was like a main krithi . Vijay takes a lot of voice rest in general the alapana returns and violin returns are perhaps purposely made longer but I like his approach of singing consciously with more open throated that too with a touch towards tara sthayi. Bilahari was intensely classical with the touch of Muttuswami dikshitar one felt the intensity bit more. The neraval was pointed with nice diction and swaras were landed beautifully in aah bala.Mayammma filler in Ahiri was great. I personally love among all madhyamavatis the palinchu kamakshi but with mayamma gone in SS and T and MD complete , i was thinking that vijay will sing again saravana bhava and exactly that ame up. Madhyamavati was great , it was two back to back saravana bhava after amrutha venkatesh.

I love bhairavi and that was the RTP. The alapana was rotated well with violinist . I was surprised with two rounds of alapana by his two tambura sishyas . That gave him a right voice rest for him to launch into taanam. Taanam was non metered affair and he sang it beautifully . The pallavi line was very nice and he sang the pallavi neraval with trikalam , Again in trikalam the sishyas joined . In swaras after a round of bhairavi , the sarvalaghu spread was in kapinarayani and was bit short. The next in lalita??was also short , the shade was not crystal clear ,was that lalitapanchamam???. Again he wrapping the swaras in bhairavi was well done.

In the tukkadas he started with the behag javali and he sang very well. The pick of the day was the DKP - aadu raatE suzhandu aadu raate , nice diction and the sangathis and music was perfect. This was a DKP special depicting the freedom struggle and independence and chakra- what a lovely patriotic song this is in the same three ragas of nadanamakriya + punnagavarali and shenjurutti?? - this is an awesome three for many many compositions .

The jalra(cymbals) was taken which i donot like and he sang a pahadi abhang which was tuned by the erudite RK Shriram kumar . The huseni - iyal isai was a good closure.

Charumathi Raghuraman played like a true star
------------------------------------------------
Charumathi violin was honey soaked and it was one of the best in terms of press, azhuttam and melody. Bilahari is a TNK special and she got the muse. Also the returns were intensely classical adding to vijay . She is a brilliant artist.

The percussion team gave very good support. Manoj shines by never banging . In tani the roll of chandrasekara sharma had more knotty variations than manoj. Chandrasekara sharma created the right rhythmmic muse by giving more air time to manoj during songs.

Vanimahal sabha seats are good but why the hell is a visual projector
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vanimahal is refurbished with better seats . They did it some time in this year and this is the first time I am attending after that in the main hall. One problem they had was the sound was not perfect before in the sense the distribution was not even. May be they corrected it - I am not sure on that . I sat on the exact place where i like the sound the best . With the posh seats i guess the Rs 200 INR is a minimum which is a difficult reach for many.

Carnatic music is strictly an aural experience for me . With two projectors displaying sangathis in thamizh and meaning in english just does not go well with me. vijay is perhaps intensely marketing in his own way showcasing his strength that he is the finest sahithya rasa anubhava singer. There is some one guiding with a page down for every line of sangathi , it appears as an unwanted visual overdose. Also when vijay sang the song of javali , the erotic verses and meaning was put . Some words like desires are not fulfilled , husband not in town, father in law is not going to interfere etc is disgusting . While the last jalra is targeting the nama sankeerthana crowd it is okay just 5 mins ,but the visual overdose is distracting to enjoy vijay's finest of fine musical experience. CM is strictly aural and if I need visual i will go to cinema.

Overall a very good to excellent audio-visual concert , if the powerpoint slide was not there ,the concert would have been excellent . The concert was for 2 hours and 30 minutes.

[kvchellappa]

Sir,
காமாக்ஷி or காமாக்-ஷி. I have heard many pronounce as காமாட்சி.

[MaheshS]

Discussion of the javali can be found in this thread.

[kvchellappa]

The srngara rasa and nayika bhava is replete in Bhagavatha and all devotional lyrics. The address is to God and it is a yearning that has been glorified in that most enticing of all relationships. No virasa is felt in the virahabhava as I understand. I understand all jawali and padams specialise in srngara rasa, the king of rasas.

[MaheshS]

The srngara rasa and nayika bhava is replete in Bhagavatha and all devotional lyrics. The address is to God and it is a yearning that has been glorified in that most enticing of all relationships. No virasa is felt in the virahabhava as I understand. I understand all jawali and padams specialise in srngara arasa, the king of rasas.

I agree, however, how many of normal concert going audience are in the same wavelength of the composers? They are only going to go by "my husband is not at home neither is my father in law so why are you hesitating to take me like you did yesterday?"

You have to either be very deeply devotional to get the inner meaning and understand. Or you go down the Dhanammal school route and just enjoy the music / raga / the pidi's, you know the "nuances", the "odhukkal sedhukkal" etc. without dwelling too much into the literal meaning of the lyrics and just selectively hear the words "Narayana, Krishna" in the lyrics and say "Aiyoo romba urugi padinar"

For me, I normally stick to what I know and can understand, the good old "Rama Rama, Krishna Krishna, Siva Siva Bhajeham" type of lyrics and with the purvangam portion of the concert.

There are SO many lec-dems about padam and javali's I've heard NOT one of them introspect the meaning properly. It was all about the ragam and how you have to hit the Gandharam and slide down to Shadjam etc etc.

[sureshvv]

Better to let the motivated go look up the meanings on their own & let the myth about Carnatic music being all about "devotional" persist

[pattamaa]

the issue is that we are too sensitive... I might understand telugu well and sit through concert and listen to padam and javali, and if if there is no meaning projected, do i take it offensive ? Or, if the artist sings these items in andhra pradesh, will rasika boycott padam and javalis ? Need to take it with pinch of salt... May be, the projection was distracting from enjoying the music, that's valid one...

[rshankar]

Suresh: jAvaLis and padams, some will argue are also manifestations of the same "devotional" aspect - yearning of the universal female principle (the jIvAtma) to unite with the singular male principle (the paramAtmA).

Not having met any of the composers, I'm not sure how true this is. But then, when I understand how the same composer who gave us beauties like muddugArE yaSOdA, jO accutAnanda, bhAvayAmi gOpAla bAlam, cEri yaSodaku siSuvitaDu, etc. has also composed pretty erotic kRtis that describe the marks of passion on alamElumangA's person after a night of divine union, and stuff along those lines, it makes me wonder where the line in the sand has to be drawn.

[MaheshS]

it makes me wonder where the line in the sand has to be drawn.

You know there are certain krithis of MD that are not sung on the concert dias on purpose because of the mantrams etc in them. I reckon we need to club Padams / Javali's into that category. Unless you totally ignore the lyrics and listen to it for it's musical aesthetics alone.

I think there is a LecDem of RaviKiran soon on this theme, maybe someone should bring this up in the Q&A and see what his views are?

There is an interesting story behind Anandeshvarena, Muthuswamy Deekshithar krithi in anandhabhairavi ragam. Once, D.K. Pattammal went to Kanchipuram, had darshan of the Kanchi Paramacharya and sang this song before him. The Paramacharya after expressing appreciation, asked her to desist from singing the song in concerts. The song according to Him ought to be sung only for pujas, in the presence of Sanyasis and Yatis, and in temples

Source - Mahaperiyava Blog

[rshankar]

To your first point, what about kRtis of annamAcArya then? Many of his compositions are set in the bedroom of his beloved Lord of the Seven Hills and alamElumangA; kshetragnya's in the bedroom of a courtesan. I think it's the same difference.

To your second point, it could be argued that a concert platform for a musician is their sanctum sanctorum, and their performance the worship, as they invoke the nAdabrahman through their music. Not very different from the words of Basavanna - with the body of us mere mortals as the temple for the Lord!

[MaheshS]

To your first point, what about kRtis of annamAcArya then? Many of his compositions are set in the bedroom of his beloved Lord of the Seven Hills and alamElumangA; kshetragnya's in the bedroom of a courtesan. I think it's the same difference.

To your second point, it could be argued that a concert platform for a musician is their sanctum sanctorum, and their performance the worship, as they invoke the nAdabrahman through their music. Not very different from the words of Basavanna - with the body of us mere mortals as the temple for the Lord!

Ohh I just took Padam / Javali as an example of krithis with erotic lyrics, the same applies to Annamayya's compistion as well. Very humble personal opinion of course.

The second point is on the line for me, while I agree that it's their sanctom santorum, the god[s] there is the audience. The great KVN himself said to me once when I asked him to sing a [wholly inappropriate for the occasion] particular song, "Reminds me of the time when someone wanted me to sing Eti Janmamithi in a wedding concert" - Ayodhya Mandapam sometime in the 90's IIRC.

On a separate note, I wonder how with every musician stressing that students NEED to know the meaning of the krithi fully etc etc, explain the explicit meaning to the kids The literal meaning would be easier to explain than the Paramatha / Jivathma concept OR they just go against their own philosophy and say " this is the gist, you will understand it all by experience" and get around the issue for good.

[Vocalist]

I think there is merit in subtitles when concerts are telecast on TV or through recordings as viewers can opt to turn subtitles off with their personal remote. But doing it in a live concert is too forceful and presumptuous imo. That said, I suppose his fans have no choice but to undergo such embarrassing conditions given how unusual it is to find him agreeing to let his performances to be recorded, telecast and/or distributed in any form.

[sureshvv]

it makes me wonder where the line in the sand has to be drawn.

Quite clear to me. No need to present word by word meaning or Arohanam / Avarohanam for each raga etc. etc.

The motivated rasika can go look these up according to their individual interest. No spoon feeding needed.

It is quite another thing to present a context for a song, just as the gross meaning of the Basavanna vachana. These are always welcome in moderation.

[shankarank]

Definition art being presented here: https://youtu.be/8CQ9o_3GBsE?t=492

"Perfection of art lies in the concealment of art. "

I have spent my time - to argue in a parallel where CM's agenda is to conceal kriyAs and as a consequence provide viSranti.

If art ( meaning its elements ) themselves have to be concealed - what to say of rest of the stuff?!

If an artiste sings - a rasika hears words ( clearly or not very clearly) and something goes on - it is between the artiste and the rasika - a private dialogue - or it may be just between the composer and the rasika - again a private dialogue - or between the tradition and the rasika ( we can say mediated by the artiste - but sometimes artiste themselves can be forgotten!!) - again a private dialogue.

When meaning is displayed on the face as a shared observation against multiple jIvas - something is lost. That thing is required as a pramaNa in scientific discourse - where multiple people have to agree on the same observation to establish truth - but not in experiential truth.

Especially translation to alien languages is even more dubious. How many culturally non-translatable words we could have? To think that language is truth is a fallacy! Language is syntax - a representation.

How many people like us want to display our Bhakti in public and want to wear it on our sleeves. We wear many ritualistic symbols - but that is cultural - still subtle indication if any.

How many of us have the inclination to claim that we are bhaktimAns in this forum??!!

I heard archaelogist Dr Nagaswamy claim that aham in aha-nanUru means SRngAra - and tolkAppiyam is a mirror image of nATya SAstra. Some Tamizh scholars, colleagues of his, want to take tolkappiyam to way back in time - there are disagreements - I would take it either way - won't be shocked a bit if it is shown at a later date that Bharata wrote it afterwards - after surveying the difference styles of the art in various parts of the country!

Bharata talks about adRSTa phala ( unseen fruit) in the case of sangIta vs nATya ( quoting Dr Ramanathan himself from one his articles) - which is immediately taken to be a spiritual experience - but why does it have to be spiritual only?

The nAtya which is dRSTa phala does it very sensitively - as a suggestion - how can the music which is adRSTa phala do it on our face?

The viSrAnti itself is experienced in the subtle body first - it is a material musical sensual experience!

We have to cry - pouring in tears - thinking about this many nights - as to what state we have been pushed to - when meanings and translations stare at our face from side screens!!

[shankarank]

One may ask - what about the words everybody hears at the same time in that hall? That is where the music which is heavy in idiom comes in - where the music attracts the most of the attention of the listeners and the words hide behind it. In that hall the shared experience can very well be just music - that depends on the sAdhaka and the tradition and its toil! - to make that happen - such heavy music that expresses itself so nicely that we don't descend into parsing words right then and deciphering!

And the music itself has many layers of hiding many things in its own construct!

[shankarank]

On a separate note, I wonder how with every musician stressing that students NEED to know the meaning of the krithi fully etc etc, explain the explicit meaning to the kids The literal meaning would be easier to explain than the Paramatha / Jivathma concept OR they just go against their own philosophy and say " this is the gist, you will understand it all by experience" and get around the issue for good.

By the time students come to learn this - they would very old and reached appropriate age! Plus quoting Ravi Kiran's LecDem - he alludes to special musical temperaments required. Even if explicit meanings are discussed - it is between a worthy teacher and a student - a solemn private one - and the character of the teacher will ensure the students learn in the right spirit!! - just as the character of parents rears the children the right way!

I suppose that is valid in the dEvadAsi lineage as well!!

The Paramatma/Jivathma meanings are relevant when discussing BhAgavata purANA - as I have heard in Ayodhya ManDapam itself once - to do a harikatha on it the exponent must have good knowledge of vEdAnta.

[arasi]

Rajesh,
As usual, your one of a kind review about one of your four favorite singers takes us to Vani Mahal aurally, eschewing the visuals for us

Vijay Siva is a fine example for youngsters to emulate when it comes to how sAhityA has to be internalized and presented with clarity and sweetness.

As for the visuals, I'm not a prude but their intrusive presence and explicit content would have ticked me off...

[kvchellappa]

On the visuals the point that it detracted from the merit of the concert rather than add to it is very apt. As Sri GRS said we enjoy many songs without bothering about meaning.
But, as for the merit of the compositions, I feel that down from Vedas (rituals included) to Srimad Bhagavatham the strong attraction of the two sexes has been richly used to understand and enhance life. The idea that such an attraction is taboo is a later development. The jawali quoted after seeing Sri Mahesh's post made me feel PSI's strong devotion. We are all human and we have projected all gods in our image. The puranic stories will bear me out. I am quite at home with them.

[Sivaramakrishnan]

kvchellappa's observations seem to be fairly objective and conclusive of the debate.