An Intriguing article

[prabuddha]

A recent article about Magsaysay Awardees, Bezwada Wilson and TMK. About the latter, it says among other things that TMK believes that CM must ' de-Brahminise itself'. Not clear what it actually means. Another thing not clear is whether TMK himself would agree with much that this writer writes about him.

Here's the quote that was rather intriguing to me. Did TMK actually say these things to the author of the article?

Krishna, constantly aware of and critical about his own birth, training, conditioning and privilege, has been advocating strenuously that Carnatic music “de-Brahminise” itself, undertake some “social re-engineering” as an act of self-purification to render itself less unequal and more inclusive.

Is TMK perhaps way ahead of his times? Or is he simply trying to find himself musically in a socially complex world in new ways, which rasikas such as ourselves are not ready to come to terms with?


http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/An ... epage=true

Intrigued,

Prabuddha

[rshankar]

Believe me, remaining intrigued is way better...enlightenment is not what's it's billed to be in this context...

[Rsachi]

I was holding back on commenting on this huge article centre page in the Hindu, written by a high caste name Vajpayi, painting with her Brahminical holier than thou brush the worthiness of two people who could not be more different from each other.

One is a man born to the menial profession of collecting and carrying human excreta from open toilets, who has been a struggling, persistent, activist for decades, moving society and government to banish an abominable practice.

The other is a Brahmin born with a silver waist band hobnobbing with Iyers, Iyengars, and JKites, whose trade is singing music by, for, and of Brahminical composers and other saints, in diamond nosestudded surroundings, with a well - honed publicity and designer clothes strategy.

If Vajpayi, Magsaysay, and the Hindu, cannot see how ridiculous the whole thing is, I can only hope Trump will give them a good drilling down. Sooner or later. At least build a wall around such charlatans. And I don't expect Bezwada Wilson would choose to stay there.

[RSR]

One is a man born to the menial profession of collecting and carrying human excreta from open toilets, who has been a struggling, persistent, activist for decades, moving society and government to banish an abominable practice.
The other is a Brahmin born with a silver waist band hobnobbing with Iyers, Iyengars, and JKites, whose trade is singing music by, for, and of Brahminical composers and other saints, in diamond nosestudded surroundings, with a well - honed publicity and designer clothes strategy.

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..How worthy is the Magsaysay award? "Imelda Marcos She served as First Lady from 1965 to 1986 during the presidency of her husband. She remains one of the richest politicians in the Philippines through her collection of clothing, artwork, and jewelry, along with money in offshore bank accounts under the pseudonym "Jane Ryan". As a result, she has been called a kleptocrat by her critics who accuse her of plunder........

The Ramon Magsaysay Award is an annual award established to perpetuate former Philippine President Ramon Magsaysay's example of integrity in governance, courageous service to the people, and pragmatic idealism within a democratic society. The prize was established in April 1957 by the trustees of the Rockefeller Brothers Fund based in New York City with the concurrence of the Philippine government.......MS got this award in 1974. ( Imelda was in power)
It was the fault of the people around her, who failed to advise her to reject the award.
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Conditions might have changed now in Philippines.? ( I think, revolutionary insurgency of the under-privileged is still going on there)... Rather than the award's 'value', it is the prize-money that comes with it that will help the true social worker Wilson . The other recipient is just a disgrace. . and the present day TheHindu conveniently ignores the social reality that almost 100% of atrocities on Daliths is perpetrated not by brahmin community but by rich peasant kulaks all over the country. Jawaharlal points out that the root cause is economical and solution is land-redistribution to make the landless daliths , land holders like others , which no party seeking power dares to implement , as the oppressors form the majority. All else is pseudo-leftism! Purandharadasa onwards, all the main CM composers have stressed human equality before God.and specifically condemned Untouchability.

of Brahminical composers and other saints

Haridasa such as Rsachi Sir, should not have blamed the composers .

[Rsachi]

sir, I will NEVER blame Carnatic composers. They wete true to the spirit of Brahminism, which is not about birth, but a total devotional attitude which cuts across caste, race, region, and language. My meaning was that TMK is desecrating his chosen profession by his talks.

[vgovindan]

I have grown old, but I have not understood the word 'brahminism'. What is the exact connotation of this word? How brahmins get equated with brahminism? I am a brahmin by birth. Leaving aside my childhood days - which is below squalor and poverty - my father used to sleep on the platform of Mylapore because we did not have a house and I was away in the Army. Earlier, we stayed in a rented hutment of slum - Valleeswaran Thoppu - around now Mandavelli Railway station. I am now living in a comfortable house - thanks to my pension and my daughter. There are thousands and thousands of brahmins - my own relatives who live in utter poverty and squalor living in slums. What is this talk about brahmins going on - I have not understood? Which face of brahmins we are talking about? I studied in Ramakrishna Mission Students Home - a residential school for destitutes. We used to clean lavatory. Even now, I clean my toilet - I do not have any qualms about handling the stools - one could see worms squirming in it - the same brahman - from brahmA to the so called lowest worm. What a hopeless subject is this?

[kvchellappa]

But, how can you like CM and be a member of rasikas.org? That gives you away!

[RSR]

Rsachi Sir, -> I know you. Was just pointing out the slip, in the sentence
Govindan Sir presents a true picture of a sizable majority of orthodox brahmin families especially in rural tamilnad even today. .those who take pride in their sanskritic learning, adherence to samskarams and unity of precept and practice in service as poor temple priests and vedic priests .Deprived of subsistence means, many are cooks . The less orthodox few have left the villages and moved first to Chennai, then Bombay and Delhi and recently even abroad. Many brilliant brahmins have spurned the lure of Gold in western countries and are happy to serve our motherland in institutions like DRDO and ISRO. and many more educational institutions of repute. Sri.Govindan himself has done glorious work in his blog on Thyagaraja Vaibavam. .True, a section of brahmins in the second half of nineteenth century were guilty of caste arrogance, but it is the same community that gave us sterling patriots and social reformers like Swadesamithran G.Subramanya Iyer, Judge Mani Iyer, Barathy, V V S Iyer,Subramanya Siva , MPT Acharya, , Salem Vijayaragavacharya, Gobi Lakshmana Iyer, Madurai Vaidhyanatha Iyer, CR and many more.No one of these great patriots can be accused of preaching casteism or untouchability. . The best thing is to ignore the 'neo-fascists' in neo-reformer's mask. and uphold our true traditional values .Every community has its share of progressives and reactionaries... As for taking CM to the common people, was not Madurai Mani Iyer happiest while singing for them in Mylapore Kapaleeswarar temple? Almost all our orthodox CM musicians participated in Temple festivals concerts mostly. Who prevents the 'revolutionary' CM vidwans in taking traditional Bakthi CM through free concerts in numerous temple festivals all over rural Tamilnad?

[shankarank]

whose trade is singing music by, for, and of Brahminical composers and other saints, in diamond nosestudded surroundings, with a well - honed publicity and designer clothes strategy.

Add a new brahmanical(??) composer to the list:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 772011.cms

All the women flaunted their pattu saris, thoughtfully paired with neckpieces and jhumkas.

The Indian Culture as much it is encoded in Scriptural sounds, Literature, Philosophy, Devotional works, Yoga, Temple Architecture, Agamas, samskaras, Saints , Music and Dance is also sort of encoded in Diamond Nose Studs and paTTu Saris.

There are still those who do a "nErti" to adorn a Ambal Deity with a paTTu saree!

Who is being called out here!!

https://youtu.be/S49QXgI847w?t=11249

As much it is not very apt to use the brahmins who live in squalor to defend against this - as it is inappropriate to use diamond nose studs in a wrong context to insinuate the person in order to defend against this!

[sureshvv]

I think the fact remains that it would be better for CM if it could attract more people from all over to learn & perform. Any effort towards this can be considered a positive step.

Can we agree on this?

[kvchellappa]

Surely. Many are doing it with modesty and sincerity. It need not be in high decibel and incriminating everyone else.
Chembai refused to sing inside Guruvayur temple if KJY was not allowed. There are many instances. In ST academy many from other castes learnt from SSI incl. Neyaantinkara. One can give many examples.
At the end of the day, CM is elitist. It cannot attract all. It requires some basic flair. That comes by association and environment. We must provide that and remove any attitude against it by patient and loving efforts, not by stridency and antagonism, and false propaganda.

[Rsachi]

From whatever I have seen, as KVC says, CM requires some "samskAra" to develop an interest and ear.
The more gifted ones put in great effoet to learn it, master it, present it and teach it. This aesthetic endowment is both inborn and nurtured, and clearly cuts across caste. And a true lover of CM is attracted to another irrespective of caste. I have seen it thousands of times. I have seen in Malaysia, Singapore, and Australia that the vast majority of CM audiences are the diaspora who aren't the B caste.

Rest of it, the B caste superiority, and the B caste "cleansing" propaganda, are all bullsh*t.

[RSR]

There are literally thousands of small and big temples in medium towns and villages all over Tamilnad. And not a day passes without some festival or other in these temples. If famous musicians ( especially vocalists) make it a duty to participate and perform in free concerts , that would bring carnatic music closer to the common people. Once the youngsters develop taste , they would like to learn and patrons especially from the diaspora can establish a residential college for the purpose. Do we not already have such music college? But the problem is that we are always chennai-centric . Each district HQ should have such a music college with free accommodation and boarding for deserving students. .... As for 'silk and diamonds and gold', it is true that it is part of our culture but mainly meant for the Lord and not for the devotee.

[shankarank]

As for 'silk and diamonds and gold', it is true that it is part of our culture but mainly meant for the Lord and not for the devotee.

So the artisans and silk weavers ( yeah we didn't create them for benevolence - we wore those things for whatever reason) become Dalits?

If Dalits are liberated en-masse just like African Americans in the U.S , do we have the systemic structures ready to employ them in alternate occupations? Or will they crowd themselves in inner city ghettos and unable to fend for themselves?

This is not a justification to keep them where they are! If our culture is encoded symbolically in various ways - it seems we continue the tradition by thinking - Gandhian thought is spinning the yarn wheel and cleaning toilets ourselves!

Gandhi's seminal contribution is his analysis of British rule - a first in the analysis of the other - after Adi Shankara did it to Buddhism. Until then ( and somewhat even now) we didn't/don't know who we are and we didn't/don't know what they are!

I know I am waxing eloquent and you all who lived thru the Freedom time will understand this better than me - you should read and explain his thoughts in History and Culture forum!

Systems that eliminated natives by building railways paid for by the slave labor from Africa and China, now take funding from our Rich NRIs paid for by the profits from IT labor to train scholars and implant them in our own institutions to take pot-shots at our systems! Just google on Ananya Vajpeyi! We immediately identified her last name as upper Caste - but didn't think a minute to check out what her back ground is.

Modern version of Sepoys - Trojan horses with their proud degree trophies from elite schools in the west!

The Theory propounded by them subtly , overtly and covertly is essentially: the entire culture is an oppressive club hierarchy. So you cannot escape by saying oppression is perpetrated by other Kulaks.

patrons especially from the diaspora can establish a residential college for the purpose

I am reading that RTE passed by the previous UPA Govt., is putting shackles on who should appoint a principal to unaided schools. What will be the status of traditional arts - which are not deemed secular ( I don't know what the hell this word means to us - but I am using it as their word) ? We unquestioningly accept their categories of religious/secular to analyze ourselves.

http://www.hindupost.in/society-culture ... e-schools/

If our private individuals that have the sense of culture cannot run their own schools how are we planning to do all this?!

We seem to think of everything as liberating our souls ( which itself is not the right word - I even squirm when I read the acronym RIP in obituaries) - they are talking about a different liberation - liberation philology of our texts - liberate the masses from the shackles of oppression of our traditions!

[RSR]

shankarank

So the artisans and silk weavers ( yeah we didn't create them for benevolence - we wore those things for whatever reason) become Dalits?If Dalits are liberated en-masse just like African Americans in the U.S , do we have the systemic structures ready to employ them in alternate occupations? Or will they crowd themselves in inner city ghettos and unable to fend for themselves?

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To the best of my knowledge, the artisans who worked in weaving ( be it cotton or silk) , the goldsmiths, diamond cutters etc have never been classified as Daliths. ..Nor are they all sanitation workers. All over India, wherever large scale river valley agriculture is prevalent, daliths have been either very poor peasants or landless bonded labour. That was all in pre-independent India. .There are no bonded labourers now. Just landless agricultural labour. You might have heard about Krushnammal Jagannathan. and her LAFTI movement. and the Boodhan movement. But it has not solved the problem. They need 'positive discrimination'. Even in USA, Booker Washington worked for technology education for the liberated blacks from Southern states of his country. A contrary view point was that of
" Dr. W. E. B. Du Bois., February 23, 1868 – August 27, 1963) was an intellectual leader of the black community in America. In multiple roles as civil rights activist, Pan-Africanist, sociologist, historian, author, and editor. Biographer David Levering Lewis wrote, "In the course of his long, turbulent career, W. E. B. Du Bois attempted virtually every possible solution to the problem of twentieth-century racism—scholarship, propaganda, integration, national self-determination, human rights, cultural and economic separatism, politics, international communism, expatriation, third world solidarity."
Du Bois graduated from Harvard, where he earned his Ph.D in History, making him Harvard's first African-American to earn a Ph.D. Later he became a professor of history and economics at Atlanta University. He became the head of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People(NAACP) in 1910, becoming founder and editor of the NAACP's journal The Crisis.Du Bois rose to national attention in his opposition of Booker T.Washington's ideas of accommodation with Jim Crow separation between whites and blacks and disenfranchisement of blacks, campaigning instead for increased political representation for blacks in order to guarantee civil rights, and the formation of a Black elite that would work for the progress of the African American race. ".....
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.The correct solution is to work from both ends. (ie) first give them their own land, form co-operatives, give them real technical education, ensure their security. All these have been already enshrined in our constitution. but in practice, as they are a minority in every area, the electoral system is unable to solve their problem. .. Govt institutions are affordable but private colleges and universities are beyond the paying capacity of poor students. . Without some degree of Economic equality, social and political equalty may be a myth. Very difficult problem.
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I am talking about taking CM of highest quality to the deprived sections, in a practical manner. As you point out, let us not discuss politico-economic-social theory in this forum, primarily meant for Carnatic music. Possibly, we both are thinking along the same lines though our language and perspective may be different. .Thank you.

[sridhar_ranga]

Each district HQ should have such a music college with free accommodation and boarding for deserving students. .....

Here is a list of affiliated colleges of the Tn Music and Fine Arts university.

http://www.tnmfau.in/college.html

Many of these affiliated colleges are in the districts. They seem to be producing graduates, PGs, and diploma / certificate holders in music. Hopefully the socially underprivileged sections are adequately represented in the student population, as per Tamil Nadu's 69% reservation policy.

My question is - where are the artistes/performers who have graduated from these colleges? Are the Sabhas even making an effort in spotting talent from this vast pool of music graduates and giving them chances to perform?

[sureshvv]

Nice research. A possible answer:

Like graduates from most Indian undergrad univs. the students are woefully ill-prepared. They need a finishing school like one of the Chennai Gurus to get them performance ready.

[RSR]

Here is a list of affiliated colleges of the Tn Music and Fine Arts university.
http://www.tnmfau.in/college.html

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Thank you for the information. Still.. there are 32 districts and many of them are not found in the list. especially in north -west tamilnad. . The aim of many students may be to get into the film industry. . Rather than the Chennai Sabhas, it would be better if AIR conducts competition and give chance to deserving candidates. . We need a white paper on the % of students from SC communities (including sub-divisions-wise). gender wise and economic status wise. to get a real picture. ... Why insist on further training by Chennai-resident tutors alone? There still are many vidwans in rural areas.

[sureshvv]

I came across a bunch of students from the Tirupathi music college at the music academy afternoon concert. Good news is that they were attending the concert. Bad news is they had no idea what "chandha" talam was & had never heard of it. May be 1st year students.