SAMVADA- FACE TO FACE WITH PRINCE RAMA VARMA

[CRama]

The interface was organised by Gaanapriya Foundation and was held in Mahalakshmi Welfare Association Building, R.A.Puram on 19/3/17. I am giving below a very brief account of the discussions held there. I would have left some of the points, though.

The session was moderated by Sri.Yessel Narasimhan who had collected some questions from the interested persons and put to Prince Rama Varma for his answers. (I don’t know whether these were the questions collected for the interface with Vedavalli, which went a fiasco)

• Yessel- This is my personal question. Ragam Sarasangi and the S.T kriti Jayajaya Padmanabha murare had been popular since 1950s. I have heard the same sung by GNB, MMI etc. Charukesi ragam and Kripalaya palaya sowre is of recent popularity. But now I see that Charukesi is more popular and Sarasangi is on the oblivion. But the sangatis in Kripaya palaya is a replica of those in Jayajaya Padmanabha. How this change has happened.
• Prince RV- One of the factors responsible for popularity of a raga is the availability of many kritis in that ragam. The kritis in Sarasangi are not that popular.
• My view. The question itself is not correct. Charukesi and Sarasangi are adjacent Melakarta ragams. The sangatis in Kripaya palaya and Jayajaya padmanabha are different. There are two famous kritis in Charukesi (Adamodigalada and Kripayapalaya) whereas there are three kritis in Sarasangi.(Jayajaya padmanabha murare, Manaveeche konavayya and Neekela dayaradu). But all these three kritis are not frequently heard in the concerts. Charukesi is taken for RTP nowadays by many musicians. Sarasangi alapana is rarely heard. I think it is a tight rope walk for any musician. Once somebody sang Sarasangi for pallavi in Pallavi Duarbar which did not come out well.
• Yessel asked about the changes made by the Prince in the Navarathri Mandapam like opening for women concerts. Prince RV very elaborately explained about the system prevalent in the Mandapam for the last 100 years and gradual changes brought about by the Prince. Prince detailed about his personal life in the Palace in Trivandrum and his views in music and life which went a tangent to those followed by the royal family.
• To a question about his Gurus, Prince RV detailed about his first Guru Vechoor Hariharasubramania Iyer and the later Guru Dr M.Balamuralikrishna. Differences in their approach and the greatness of MBK compositions. His another Guru KSN was very specific in his answers to any queries whereas MBK will not give that concrete decision on a matter. You have to find your own answer. You have to discipline yourself. He also explained about MDR and MMI- two iconic musicians who are like his two eyes.
• About the need for clarity in the sahithyam which is not found in many persons. Prince told that it is utmost essential and right pronounciation, meanings of phrases etc are available in the net. Musicians should make use of it fully.
• Yessel- In a reality show in Amrita TV, one boy sang a ragamalika tillana of MBK to which TNS, one of the judges remarked that MBK kritis- he only can sing and we should only enjoy those songs. But should not be sung in competitions. What is the opinion of Prince.
• Prince- MBK compositions are qualified in all respects to be sung by all musicians. But you should have that sruti sudham and gamaka sudham. It contains many subtle gamakams which can be handled only with experience and constant practice. Prince said his Veena training helped him to execute the gamakams with precision.
• Sruti bhedam- Prince demonstrated in detail the sruti bhedam exercise- from Hindolam to Durga, Madhyamavathi, Mohanam and Sudhadhanyasi
• Yessel asked if sruti bhedam is against aesthetics, Prince agreed and said that we should not do anything which is not aesthetic.
• There was some discussion about allied ragams- Abhogi and Sreeranjini, Poornachandrika and Janaranjini. Prince said that the grammer of the ragam should be strictly followed and no anya swaram to be added to give colour to the ragam. Prince said that MBK’s approach is to make the ragam appear mystic to the listener so that his attention is retained.
• Purpose of Madhyamasruti- for ragams that end with ni, because of limited range in those ragams, madhyamasruti will give more sheen to those ragams.
• Somebody asked about the speed of the song getting jacked by some of the musicians. Prince said it should never be done.
• One person asked whether MBK has developed any ragam for practice for the improvement of autistic children, prince said nothing in particular.
• I asked a question- cross over of banis nowadays by the musicians. In the concert of PSN Parampara vidwans, in the case of one vidwan, there was no shade of SSI/PSN. But there were shades of TNS and TRS. Prince said there was nothing wrong in adoption of certain sangathis of another school. A student need not sing exactly like the Guru. Then people can as well listen to the Guru only.
• Prince RV concluded by singing an Annamacharya composition tuned by BMK in Yadukulakambodi.

A well conducted interface. Prince Rama Varma gave nice explanations with his excellent communication and demonstrative skills. Thanks to the Gaanapriya foundation.

[thanjavooran]

Shri CRama,
Many thanks for the extensive coverage. Hope Rasikas felt happy on the Q A session this time.
With wishes,
Thanjavooran
20 03 2017

[Sachi_R]

Prince Rama Varma combines three things:
A. a dedication to the art with cultivated expertise under expert gurus
B. A passion for spreading the art to as many people as possible, to become better isteners and better singers
C. Excellent communication skills.

A great combo for this interview is the Youtube video wherein he has discussed BMK compositions.

Thank you CRama!

[shankarank]

• My view. The question itself is not correct. Charukesi and Sarasangi are adjacent Melakarta ragams. The sangatis in Kripaya palaya and Jayajaya padmanabha are different. There are two famous kritis in Charukesi (Adamodigalada and Kripayapalaya) whereas there are three kritis in Sarasangi.(Jayajaya padmanabha murare, Manaveeche konavayya and Neekela dayaradu). But all these three kritis are not frequently heard in the concerts. Charukesi is taken for RTP nowadays by many musicians. Sarasangi alapana is rarely heard. I think it is a tight rope walk for any musician. Once somebody sang Sarasangi for pallavi in Pallavi Duarbar which did not come out well.

My view is based on hearing a svara prastara from TNS for sarasangi - where he goes on and on. He might be generally excessive on svarams, but the rAgam itself sounded without any hold - I think sarasangi is much more closer to scalarity than chArukESi. Sort of a rishbhapriyA on the Suddha madyamam side - though they are not the pairs on the Suddha-prati-madyamam! It only enjoys an additional M1 that provides more samvAditva.

Sashank's debut @ MA about yr 2000, CD release - featured nIkEla dayarAdu - but it flew due to the racy kaNDa cApu and lot of effective kOrvais and Patri/Karthik fireworks!

[Sachi_R]

I have heard an RTP in Sarasangi from BMK, Shashank and Amrutha Venkatesh. Both BMK and AV did a wonderful job (I am not comparing BMK with anyone else...) Shashank seemed to be playing Shankarabharana phrases a lot in the beginning.
Akkarai, who was on the violin, did better.

These RTPs are available online.
I don't think anybody will go to war taking sides for Charukeshi or Sarasangi. They simply have their placea in the scheme of things but Carnatic music is built on the big, monumental, six.

[sureshvv]

Ragas are constantly evolving. Sarasangi may have had a late start but seems to be gaining strength and form quite well. Many artistes now do an elaborate alapana and distinguish it quite well from its close allies.

[CRama]

I don't think anybody will go to war taking sides for Charukeshi or Sarasangi. They simply have their placea in the scheme of things but Carnatic music is built on the big, monumental, six.

Well said. Can you pl give the links for RTP by MBK, AV, Shashank

[Sachi_R]

Amrutha Venkatesh: https://youtu.be/dEOGU6jvTHw

Sashank & Akkarai: https://youtu.be/4EcN0F5-7Q0

BMK ( Sorry, I can't find link to RTP...But this is also very interesting ) :
https://youtu.be/l5CR1xUOELU

[Sivaramakrishnan]

Charukesi with its kaisiki nishadha gets a 'spatial advantage' compared to Sarasaangi.Needless to say that 'distantly placed' swarastanas in a scale help easy identification of the ragas for the listener when properly rendered by the artist. And won't it be a pleasant exercise for the rasika to distinguish among the so called 'allied' ragas? Perhaps there lies the thrill of raga appreciation!

[shankarank]

In addition to spatial advantage kaiSiki nishAda also brings a samvAdi advantage to Suddha madyamam.

[rajeshnat]

This is my personal question. Ragam Sarasangi and the S.T kriti Jayajaya Padmanabha murare had been popular since 1950s. I have heard the same sung by GNB, MMI etc. Charukesi ragam and Kripalaya palaya sowre is of recent popularity

Crama
In the generation of SSI MMI or ariyakudi , mmi has sung adamodi galadE also . I am not sure if you can really say that in earlier era of recordings there was more sarasangi than charukesi . May be when you were in your 30's , usuallly singers may have sung a submain for ST krithi and main for T/MD krithis which has happened. Hence more circulation of jayajayapadmanabha in sarasangi as submain . With musicians having decided to sing a trinity main they would have skippped adamodi galada of T .

Incidentally in charukesi if my memory is right kripalaya palaya sowrE is a 2 kalai krithi right hence taken as main - others like adamodi are 1 kalai hence not preferred .IN pallavi more people take charukesi than sarasangi.

Musicians like TRS mama have sung more numbers of sarasangi than charukesi and if I am right Abhishek goes with more percentage sarasangi than charukesi.

IN short your question is incidental on the limited subset of what you heard / what musician you have taken and you are reverse extrapolating.

[CRama]

This is my personal question. Ragam Sarasangi and the S.T kriti Jayajaya Padmanabha murare had been popular since 1950s. I have heard the same sung by GNB, MMI etc. Charukesi ragam and Kripalaya palaya sowre is of recent popularity

Crama

IN short your question is incidental on the limited subset of what you heard / what musician you have taken and you are reverse extrapolating.

Yessel- This is my personal question.

Rajesh, That was never my question. See how I have started. Essel Narasimhan says that it is my personal question. I have just reported what he has stated. I am not responsbile for these words. My viewalso I have given below that. I would have never asked such a question.
By the way, which song in Sarasangi that TRS sang. Have you heard it. I have never heard Sarasangi by TRS.

[pperumal]

i have heard few scholars say that adamodi galade is not by thyagaraja - IIRC, r vedavalli herself mentioned it somewhere.
can't recollect where though - so i could be wrong.

- PP.

[eesha]

The entire audio recording PLUS some photos of the event is available at :

http://gaanapriya.in/samvAda/19-Mar-2017/

The video recording is being processed.

[Sivaramakrishnan]

By the way, which song in Sarasangi that TRS sang. Have you heard it. I have never heard Sarasangi by TRS.

If CRama has not heard TRS singing Sarasangi, most certainly TRS had not!

[Sivaramakrishnan]

Incidentally in charukesi if my memory is right kripalaya palaya sowrE is a 2 kalai krithi right hence taken as main - others like adamodi are 1 kalai hence not preferred

'Kripayaa paalaya sourey' is in MISRA CHAPU, usually sung in medium tempo and among the 'oldest' popular kritis in Charukesi. Late Kunnakudi Vaidyanathan had acknowledged its legacy and it was the Kriti that virtually led him into the profession.

Need a tinsel touch? Think of MK Tyagaraja Bhagavathar's super hit 'Manmatha leelaiyai vendraar undo' that made Charukesi a hot favourite!

[Sachi_R]

Sivaramakrishnan,

[shankarank]

Looks like sarasangi has a janyam to boot : simhavAhini.

https://youtu.be/YASZoiJzeUs?t=425

https://www.shazam.com/track/54928887/n ... thyagaraja

The made me realize my faux pas that sarasangi lacks samvAdi other than M1 - it does G3 -> N3. So new rAgas are many times arrived at by omitting the problematic note : R2 in this case on the ascent - which is missing a D2.

http://www.karnatik.com/c2597.shtml

[sureshvv]

What about Nalinakanthi?

[CRama]

The hypothesis on which Rajesh has put up his strong argument against me is not correct. The fact is like this.
I have started my comments in the original post as The question itself is not correct. SL has taken two recordings – that of GNB and MMI to presume that Sarasangi was very much popular in the early days. There is one partial concert of GNB in Navarathri mandapam where he has sung Sarasangi Jayajayapadmanabha. In this concert the main song is Devi pavane, but is starts from the middle of neraval- Somabimba. ( I dont know if SL has got the full concert). I don’t have this concert. I have neither heard from any old timers that GNB used to sing this song regularly. Second, there are 1-2 MMI concerts where has sung this song with alapana and swarams. But the fact is this song was never a very frequently rendered song. I have been hearing concerts in TVM- live and radio from 1960-1988. Even those days, this song was very rarely rendered. You may hear once in a year. Radha Jayalakshmi used to render this in her concerts in Swati Tirunal Sangita Sabha- that too only kriti. SSI/KVN/ and all never render this kriti. I think TVS has rendered this song in some cncert.
I have heard very elaborate Manaveeche Konavayya in Sarasangi from TNS in 80s and afterwards. DKP also has rendered this song very rarely. Neekela ddayaradu, I have heard from Hyderbad Bros and Voleti.
Charukesi.
Kripaya palaya sowre- I have read somewhere that SSI popularised this song in 1940s or 50s. I don’t have any record of SSI singing this song. In 70s and after that KVN has sung this in a few concerts very elaborately. Thrissur Ramachandran has sung in a few Navarathri concerts. TNS has sung an excellent Charukesi (I think Adamodigalada) in Meenakshi College in 2006 or near to that. MMI has sung Adamodigalada in a few concerts. Yesudas used to sing this very frequently. TVS used to sing Charukesi very frequently. M.S has sung this excellently in a TVM Doordarshan programme which is available in yt. M.S has sung Adamodi galada in a radio programme on Ramanavami. RTP in Charukesi and Sarasangi is of recent exploration by young vidwans.
That being the case, there is no issue as purported by SL. Now the entire audio is available to have a better understanding of the issue.

[CRama]

The video of this programme has been uploaded in five parts. See the following link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5VosWlujCo

[sureshvv]

I have heard very elaborate Manaveeche Konavayya in Sarasangi from TNS

**BEEP BEEP*** rshankar alert **BEEP BEEP**

[shankarank]

What about Nalinakanthi?

Nalikanti last checked uses R2 on the ascent - it is just a vakra - and it did not provide as much returns for the changes made going from SankarAbaraNam! - as much as bEgaDa did on HarikAmbodhi - and the parent even lost the child

It is interesting that even tyAgarAja for all his karahapriyas - sees the value of asampURnatva! - I mean he could also be called as an asampURNa vaggEyakkarA

[eesha]

The video recording upload from Gaanapriya Foundation is available at :

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... A2sdLjmU6R

This version will have better audio quality due to Line-In recording