Article - South Indian Performing Arts: Whence? Where Now? W

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 02 Jan 2007, 22:33

I came across this fascinating article:
http://narthaki.com/info/articles/art92.html

Some excerpts related to CM:
[quote]The plight of young musicians of the era
And during this transition, the old patronage by kings, zamindars and landlords disappeared. In Madras, the established musicians (Ariyakkudi, Semmangudi, GNB, Palakkad and Madurai Mani Iyer, Chembai, MS, MLV, Pattammal, and a few others) ruled the roost. The repertoire was getting stale. Melody overpowered lyrics, and established vocalists didnâ€™t care for lyrics. Often they unabashedly mutilated the words in the sahityam.

For young musicians languishing behind senior vidwans as pin-paattu for decades, the system was stifling. Vocalists in their mid 40s were called â€œtenderâ€

ranjani · Post by **ranjani** » 03 Jan 2007, 17:54

Too much importence for the Chennai season is a problem, but I don't agree with the comment about rasikas speakng exclusively on the technicalities of music. Its a good learning experience for those who are beginning on the carnatic music path.

Classical music usually doesn't attract large audiences both in India and in the West.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 03 Jan 2007, 20:39

The technical talk can also repel some people from listening to more of CM - this seems to be what the author is saying.

Also, we don't want to keep it as an elitist art form. It's good to have a larger rasika base, if we want to see it grow and survive over the next few decades.

Music · Post by **Music** » 03 Jan 2007, 22:50

To expand the audience base, the concerts need to be made more informative, more participative in some way - depending on the type of audience you are targetting. I think I wrote on this point in another thread earlier. Knowledgeable & highly interested rasikas would not like or need any such educative efforts. They love the music so much that they need concerts longer than 2 hours. This is not true for any other type of audience.
People who really love to attend CM concerts fall into 2 categories:
1. Highly interested in music because they have been brought up in a family where CM was always appreciated. Not too many families like these today.
2. Students of music who want to enhance their CM skills.

If we want to expand the audience base, there is definitely a need to make concerts more informative or interactive. As far as I notice in any concerts in India or the US, bulk of the audience is in the over 50 age group. People who organize concerts or Tyagaraja aradhanas or are deeply interested in this art form are in this age group. Except of course, rasikas in this forum

. What will happen in the next generation? Realistically speaking, this art form cannot flourish well if we don't make the extra effort.

Very few artists have that kind of skill that attracts lay audiences. Dr. Balamuralikrishna is one example I can think of. I have seen a lot of people who don't regularly attend any CM programmes getting glued to his Utsava Sampradaya kritis or Ramadas bhajans. His concert format too is a little different - innovative, I would say. An artist could be as innovative in concert presentation as in rendering manodharma. But again, I guess it all depends on what one's intent is. If the intent is to satisfy the existing rasika base, then fine, no issues. If the intent is to propagate this art form so more people enjoy it, then we need innovation. And that means extra effort.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Jan 2007, 23:40

Going to a concert hall (to listen to classical music) is sometimes an elitist activity, I suppose. We should not forget that CM was part and parcel of life inside and outside of the temple where cultural things flourished. Those who happened to be in the temple, listened to the music in praise of the gods, to nadaswaram and tavil and the music that accompanied dance. It retained its quality of accessibility in the villages and small towns. Urban sabhas and membership to the best among them helped elitism along the way. My childhood which was music-filled, took me to sabhas in Chennai as grand as the Museum Theatre to humble little sabhas in some little lane in town. I saw all kinds of audience from all walks of life filling the halls. People came dressed well, according to their means. Of course, the wealthy Mylapore mamis flashed their blue jagger diamonds and 'socialized' with their kind, but, it was no big deal. An audience was as diverse as it is today. My view is that just as life itself has lost the old flavor of being connected with the community, being connected to the arts has been lost too--unless you make an effort, take time and often spend money on attending a concert. One can avoid all such trouble, stay at home and watch television. Ah, now the sweet thought--if only more CM and HM were shown on the TV!
They went to temples not only for the gods but for entertainment too. Now, if CM could make its way into the tv set at home, and the family gathers around it every day for hours...

If mArgazhi Utsvam gets to be a daily utsavam...

gnanasunyam · Post by **gnanasunyam** » 04 Jan 2007, 03:49

The debate of keeping the art pure and traditional versus diluting to involve more lay people is a never ending one. There are pros and cons supporting either viewpoint.

However, at least as far as TamizhNadu is considered, the following actions can help:

1. CM Viswans feel singing in Tamizh = dilution of standards. I am not sure this is a correct attitude. In one of the music season inaguration, a TN minister requested that Tamizh songs be used more. When TNS spoke at the end, he seems to have requested not to do this- apparently he remarked (per Vikatan mag) that CM must retain its tradition even if it means lower crowd.

2. Organizing more Temple / open concerts in rural/ non-Chennai centers will increase participation. People in most centers cannot afford to be members in a sabha or pay ticket cost and attend.

3. CM has acquired a single community ownership and elitism- that has to be rooted out. After all, Tamizh Isai is now accepted as the forerunner of CM. This may involve special encouragement to potential talent from non-standard sources.

On the other hand, one may argue that HM attracts even less crowd and the HM musicians do not ever dilute to attract more crowd. They expect audience to reach them and not the other way around. In most HM concerts in the US, attendance is lower than CM concerts.

What should definitely not happen is popular artists taking to cutting "light music" type CM CDs or thinking that singing in cinema can help them become popular. These are definite causes of dilution of standards.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 04 Jan 2007, 04:01

gnanasunyam wrote:On the other hand, one may argue that HM attracts even less crowd and the HM musicians do not ever dilute to attract more crowd. They expect audience to reach them and not the other way around. In most HM concerts in the US, attendance is lower than CM concerts.

I don't think one can generalize about this. I have seen quite the opposite. This may vary depending on the geographical region, but all the HM concerts I have attended in the US/Canada over the last 20-25 years have been huge crowd pullers. This is not only true for star acts (Pt Ravi Shankar, Amjad Ali, Jasraj etc), but also for the newer crop of Abhyankar, Ashwini Bhide, Kala Ramnath and others. The closest that I have seen in terms of CM musicians to draw these kinds of crowds is probably BMK. However, I don't think any of them presented diluted art. The star HM acts also have a much larger draw from international audiences.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 04 Jan 2007, 04:05

gnanasunyam wrote:After all, Tamizh Isai is now accepted as the forerunner of CM.

Really :rolleyes: Who by?

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 04 Jan 2007, 06:57

I remember SpicMacay used to bring good classical concerts to the campus during my IIT days - don't know if they are still active. Hope we have similar orgns offering such fare to young people in non-elitist forums also. While TV is good, there's nothing like a live concert to provide the right atmosphere.

Also, basic level lecdems (interspersed with singing) can be used to explain the fundamentals of carnatic music to novices.

Perhaps our forum can help organize such events.

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 04 Jan 2007, 10:29

jayaram, spic macay does happen in IIT Madras once in a while.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 04 Jan 2007, 14:47

Read the article with interest - provides an intreresting (if somwhat uncharitable) perspective of socio-cultural trends in the brahmin community over the last 2 decades. The point about Bharatanatyam being more successful than CM in reaching out is worth pondering over...

DRS, I think Gundakriya was perhaps trying to say that CM owes a part of its legacy to Tamizh Isai, not necessarily all of it, which would naturally be untenable. Also I am not sure I am in favour of propogating Tamizh kritis for the sake of it - musicians should look for musical values in a composition first, language considerations ought to be secondary - perhaps this was what TNS was trying to say and I fully agree with him. Of course, compositions in one's mother tongue would always have an additional lyrical appeal which may drive musicians' preferences...

Back to the topic, one which we have endlessly debated on sangeetham.com. I have a fundamental problem with the assertion that HM is "more popular" than CM. It certainly has a wider demographic reach which CM ought to emulate....but I can't think of too many cities that can sustain a month-long music festival with 2000 performances, most of which are not advertised/marketed the way top HM artistes (paricularly instrumentalists) tend to be. Sure, many performances run to empty audiences - the idea behind such concerts is to provide an exposure/platform to raw talents, not to draw crowds. OTOH, I find that even performances at 12:30/2:30 PM in the Academy often draw crowds of 100/200+ on a sustained basis. I don't see this happening anywere else. I have been witness to very good (but not star material) HM artistes performing to audiences of no more than 5-10 people! This is unlilkely to happen in Chennai even in the peak of summer!

The big names in HM are definitely better crowd-pullers than their CM counterparts. A glossy ad fearturing a Hariprasad Chaurasia in the Times of India will ensure that the ticket counters are kept busy with people thronging to hear the Pahadi Dhun being played for the gazillionth time. To take a recent exemple, the Dhrupad recital of the Gundecha brothers at the Academy was less than half full - the same venue featuring more glamorous artistes and aided by better page 3 coverage was a sell out on all days despite prohibitive ticket prices. I refuse to accept this "gumbal" phenomenon as a desmontration of HM's popularity. There are enclaves of the country - Shivaji Park, South Calcutta, Pune, parts of UP, North Karnataka among others -where HM truly has a mass base similar to what CM enjoys. For the rest, HM's so called wider base is just a marketing success story, successfully sold to people who want to be seen at the right places...

Nevertheless, it is fruitful to introspect on why, for whatever reasons, CM lags HM in cultivating a wider demographic base. May I posit the following reasons:

While Brahmins were always among the 2-3 communities dominating the practition of the art, it was a more cosmopolitan crowd as far as the audience went. This has sadly changed. For various reasons, CM has come to be associated exlcusively with the Brahmin community and has suffered from the stigma attached to everything Brahminical across South India post independence. Those who are keep a distance from CM are not exactly intimidated by it - they are actually dismissive or even derisive of the art. In this context, the effort of Sri Lankan tamils to identify with the art and propogate it, is indeed praiseworhty.

State patronage is another one of the key culprits. The impact is not merely on the number of awards collected but also on the stature of musicians. When a Ravi Shankar or a Bhumsen Joshi performs at some global event or conference, there is a certain aura that envelops them. How many CM performers (other than MS) get such an opportunity?

A related point, perhaps resulting from the above, is the charisma or brand potential of a musician. Look at the popular HM artistes - each in his/her own way possesses a stage presence/sophistication that blends well with the charmed circles of the India International Centres and the like. An SSI or a Rajarathanam simply did not have this kind of "polish". The only major HM star I can think of as an exception is Bismillah Khan - it is no wonder then, that he died in penury. This might well change with the likes of Sanjays, Sudhas and TMKs coming into the scene - educated and articulate, they might well succeed in getting North Indian audiences to see how shallow their cultural sensibilities really are.

As a final thought, the economic centre-of-gravity of the country is decidedly shifting towards the south. This is likely to have 2 major implications for our art scene. One, with cities becoming more cosmopolitan, there will be a greater number of art forms vying for patronage. Bangalore is already unrecognizable as a South Indian city - the Bangalore Hubba is a good example of the diversity I am talking about. Chennai will take a few more years but is slowly getting there. Two, economic development of southern cities also means more money for art - this is as much responsible for the exponential growth of performances in the season as greater rasika interest. So we are likely to have more money and resources chasing a greater diversity of art forms. How CM will fare in this scenario would depend, not only on the aptitude of our performers but also on the music community's ability to ensure a wider appeal without compromising tradition or standards.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jan 2007, 16:53

Vijay,
As always, your analysis is impressive. Two things that you said, the one about srilankan tamizhs' contribution to CM in recent years, and the point about the younger generation of CM musicians. Srilankans stand for ex-patriots. For decades, CM musicians who toured Sri LAnka were welcomed and appreciated there. The sri lankans continue to be patrons and practitioners of CM in every part of the world they reside in. They are ardent about training their
children in becoming proficient in music and bharatha natyam. It is the same story with those who have left India to settle in other countries. The prime example is the Cleveland Tyagaraja Utsavam.
Yes, our young vidwAns and vidushis can do more than just perform. They have communicative skills and they travel widely.
Yesterday, on the mArgazhi mahA utsavam on Jaya TV, Soumya not only gave a sparkling performance but spoke so well too. Her demonstrating various ways of singing thODI (the rAgA of the season, it seems) was educative. She did not flaunt fancy words. Yet, her erudition spoke to even the uninitiated among the viewers. Yes, there is hope for CM's future, I think. Watering down the music is not the way to go. Gently leading the beginners into the realm of CM without intimidating them is the key. Exposure--is the answer. Starting from childhood is even better. As schools take children on excursions to places, they could take them to classical concerts. If they are televised, so much the better--many many viewers, indeed, young and old....

gnanasunyam · Post by **gnanasunyam** » 04 Jan 2007, 17:03

DRS Wrote: "Really by Who"

I do not want to get into that discussion, but what I meant was that Tamizhs have had music that is not very dissimilar from CM.

Other reasons for CM not having a wider base may be that it is viewed as religious music and not music for its own sake.

Factors like language, religion etc. may get out of the way if CM reduces emphasis on lyrics. However, given that we have a rich heritage of great sahityas, this is unlikely to happen.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 04 Jan 2007, 19:41

So much of carnatic performance is instrumental it seems it is becoming incidental that the content is religious!

Three cheers to the Sri Lankan refugee community for ensuring that CM remains alive and listened to around the world. If it were not for that, I would not be here today.

Deduct 25% of a cheer though, for keeping it to themselves. I was talking to an American CM student the other day who commented that there was no CM scene in London, where she currently lived.

Perhaps deduct another 25% of a cheer for the big-social-even-wildly-expensive-arrangetram machine that has developed --- regretably often the final rather than the first stage appearance of many London students.

Refund 25% of a cheer for the attitude and respect shown by the London Sri Lankans to their fellow concert-goers and to the musicians on stage. In fact, refund the whole 50% and we're back to three full rousing cheers...

For the worst thing about CM in Chennai is the audiences. It is completely unnecessary to go into the details of why, as it is a topic we do regularly --- but I wonder how many CM lovers have come to prefer listening to the music at home, where they can actually listen without continual distraction? Honestly, it puts me off.

Don't knock those who present lighter-content programmes. No, I don't want to see the music dumbed-down, but everyone has to start somewhere!

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 04 Jan 2007, 21:47

Nick - I have been in London for a bit and mates with your ex[?]-guru Bala in BVB. *Most* of the Sri Lankan's don't give two hoots about CM, it's more of a social scene for them to say "Oh my kids do this and that .. " etc etc. Nothing to do with music. Fair play though, as you say they put in a *lot* of money into it, so atleast people like me get to hear a concert or two a few times in the UK.

Refund 25% of a cheer for the attitude and respect shown by the London Sri Lankans to their fellow concert-goers and to the musicians on stage.

I agree, but you *do* get half time breaks and add 25% of the fact that not many of the parents know didly-squat about CM. They are just there for appearences. Trust me on this one. Plus there is also the fact that most often than not, one of the performers will happen to be the guru of their children.

This parent spent about 14K pounds on an "arengetram" for their two kids. Nice girls and they were talented, but not even *close* to performing on stage. I was introduced to them ["Oh he listens to a lot of CM ..."] and I asked them how many krithis they knew and what they were going to perform .. their answers settled my doubts.

"Oh we are on class 7*" or some other number like that and they showed me a book where the raga alapana was written down on a step by step basis. And that's *all* they know. Their main piece was a *RTP* in Simendhramadhyamam, so I played MS singing Rama Rama [ST krithi] and asked them if it helped in knowing the scale better. They were bewildered, they couldn't even identify that it was the same raga.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jan 2007, 23:12

My, my! I am disappointed to hear all this about the London scene, Nick and Mahesh. What do I know? I left England for good, thirty years ago! I recently went to an arangetram of a sri lankan youngster on the other side of the pond. She was extermely good, trained under a dedicated, talented teacher for six years and her hard work and flair was very much evident that day. I was amazed that relatives had come from other parts of the US and from Canada and England too. I learnt that it was not unusual. Even in the indian community, I hear of parents getting carried away with it all, putting up lavish affairs--like some weddings in India. Keeping up with the Joneses might be one of the reasons for this. A desire to have a family reunion could be another. Anyway, it brings to mind something amusing: years ago, when I belonged to a mah jong players' group, we used to meet every week at one of our homes. We usually served coffee and cake. One of the players, an ambitious hostess, prepared a brunch. The next week, it was replicated and so it went on, until the ambitious hostess served us a regular lunch! We gave up, and decided that coffee and a slice of cake was what we would settle for from then on, to concentrate more on the game!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 05 Jan 2007, 00:23

MaheshS --- look on the bright side. CM is alive and well in London, and only because of the SL community. And I do know quite a few who seriously love the music.

There are negative aspects too, and I have been to arangetrams where I have not been able to speak to the youngsters afterwards for fear of letting my true feelings show. The standard has no comparison with Chennai ---which is why you won't find me muddling through on stage in Chennai as I could in London!

There is a small handful of talented youngsters --- the few who might actually improvise on stage, not repeat what they have learnt by rote. But we are not talking about future professional musicians here, just youngsters who have put in a lot of work towards maintaining some part of their culture. They deserve credit for that, even if a lot of parental pressure was involved to get them started.

As for the social life, yes it is --- but check out a London HM concert at the Queen Elizabeth Hall to see the ladies clustering around those with titles and flashing their diamonds! And check out the chat in a chennai auditorium: at least the Londoners shut up while the musicians are performing.

Hey ho! I guess all this is just another aspect of 'the future of carnatic music'

But hasn't the same sort of thing been true here? haven't the veena or vocal lessons sometimes been a move towards making the girl more marriageable?

Arasi... I'm glad you have something more positive to report on this front

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 05 Jan 2007, 00:23

After having lived in various countries (US, Canada, NZ, Australia) for the past 15 years, I am now in London, and must say my CM experience here has been a bit unique. As others have said already, CM is supported mostly by SriLankan Tamils here. Take them out of London, and I am afraid CM will come to a grinding halt here. On that count at least, I believe they are doing a great service to this art form. (To give an e.g., Manakkal's UK tour was underwritten by just 2 SL gentlemen, plus another family who hosted them throughout their stay here. Not a single Indian family even volunteered to host them for a day or two!)

I don't know if they are not that knowledgeable about CM, but I do salute the interest they take (for whatever reasons) in supporting this art-form. As a contrast, the Indian community is shockingly absent in its support (a few exceptions do exist, esp amongst the teachers). This is so different from my experience in other countries, where the Indian community would be at the forefront of organizing/attending CM kutcheris.

During Manakkal's stay here, the first few concerts were all organized by SL tamils, and I was trying hard to get the Indian community to get involved in organizing at least one concert. And I can't begin to tell you about the difficulty I faced! It seems the Indians will attend a concert only if dinner is served after it. Now I don't care if they are more CM-savvy or not, but they do have a serious attitude problem.

(Talking about dinner, there was a hilarious - and embarrassing - incident at one of the concerts organized by SL tamils: the announcer mentioned that dinner would be served at the end of the concert, and also apologized profusely that it would only be 'Saivam'! And this was a concert being held at a temple auditorium! You should have seen the shocked expression on the artistes' faces!)

All this to me is an interesting sociological phenomenon. Here's an example of active involvement in CM by a community other than the one that usually supports CM (if you know what I mean). (This is something the article cited in this thread refers to.) It may take some time for them to become CM-knowledgeable, perhaps it will happen in one generation. Meanwhile, let's applaud their interest. (Although I could live without their almost fanatical Tamizh-isai approach to CM!

I get a headache listening to a Tamil-only kutcheri. But then, that's just me, I suppose.)

I have rambled enough. It's all Nick's fault.

gnanasunyam · Post by **gnanasunyam** » 05 Jan 2007, 07:17

Why blame only SriLankans on show value and few showing real interest. It is equally true of many Indian families in US, esp. with dance. Arengetram is the end of story not the beginning!

And I suspect it will equally be true in TN/ Chennai- only a small % of kids who learn CM actually end up being performers and a bit more become CM lovers.

At least SriLankans put some money into culture and (speciall) temples- TamBrams would rather listen (all the better if it is free!) but hardly ever put money into organizing.

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 05 Jan 2007, 08:12

I don't know who it was that highlighted that HM artistes apart from the very famous, attract far smaller crowds than CM artistes... even in cities like Delhi. In Singapore barely 10 people turn up for (very good) HM concerts that do not feature Ravi Shankar or some such overrated superbore. Anyway...

My personal belief is carnatic music must never be diluted for the sake of the audience. The moment that is done, not only do we convey the wrong message (i.e. this is all we have to offer), but there is also a big risk of underestimating the audience. Small example (I'll try not to ramble

)

In Singapore my younger brother, myself and my youngest brother play violin, violin and mridangam. In almost EVERY temple we played at, the organiser would always tellus, 'please just play some fast and light numbers, no heavy stuff or the audience will run away'. Initially we did this, until we got sick of the same old silly stuff and I decided to heck with it, we play what we want. In the subsequent concerts, we played only four pieces (in a 1 hour) or six (in 1 1/2 hours), with one main item (ragam, neraval swaram) and at least one other alapana. We took turns taking the main item. We also played so-called 'heavies' like O Rangasayee, Merusamana, Rama neesamanamevvaru, Meenakshi memudham, Naajeevadhara, and 'slow' compositions like Mariveregathi, Janani ninnuvina, Geetharthamu etc. Of course there are some that got away but most of them stayed till the end. In fact the ones who got up and wandered off were the more affluent looking who probably were just there to pass time anyway. There were people who were construction workers and maids who would sit through the performance, some even asking us later about what we played. So there is a dedicated group of people who are willing to sit and listen and there is really no need to 'dilute' the art. The last thing we want are more Kunnakudi fans.

Even if we include sets with no tamil compositions there are always many people who sit through and listen, and even the chinese, who are the majority here, sit through entire 3 hour concerts by artistes, willing to learn about and appreciate CM. (It's usually the well-heeled indians who run away halfway through the thani to empty the bladder, eat, or if available, down a glass of wine, and incidentally request artistes to sing stuff like Jagajjanani and Eppo Varuvaro. I darn them to heck).

So really there is no dilemma about diluting the art. That would just be a slippery slope to diluting it beyond all recognition, and in the hope of reaching more people end up playing 'Kalyanam thaan kattikitu odipolama' in concerts. (hey it's not much of an exaggeration! I heard Kunnakudi play songs from Rangeela in his 'concerts').

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 05 Jan 2007, 08:27

gnana, in Singapore the problem is two-fold.. on one hand the brahmins here tend to view locals as 'unworthy' of learning music and fit for nothing arts related.. when my mother started teaching music here, many were actually surprised that as a brahmin woman she is willing to teach them in our house with patience. There were teachers who would only let the students in and the mothers had to wait outside on a chair. She now handles over 60 students and we have had to turn some away because of time constraints. (And since we live in a small 4 room flat it is filled with swaravali howlers all day). They would tell us of previous teachers who would just teach them some light little songs before even finishing geethams and prop them up on stage in a group and send them packing. (I have played accompaniment for some of these poor kids who were just force fed some music and then made to perform.. Not a pleasant experience hearing them.).

The other influential group, the well-heeled Sri Lankans here view Indians as 'inferior' beings. My fiancee is Sri Lankan, and actually had to endure relatives going on and on about how she shouldn't marry an Indian man. They would rather she marry white than Indian. Stuff you wouldn't even see in tamil movies happens in our lives!

What has then happened is that the local indians who came here as labourers and menials have very little introduction to the arts, and despite the fact that the government spends quite a big sum on the arts scene, very few local performers are able to see the value of learning CM. To them it's something too abstract and difficult, and not worth 'wasting' time over. So much talent is therefore wasted over such petty issues.

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 05 Jan 2007, 10:53

Very interesting comments....I am part of an excellent team which runs the NZ Carnatic Society. We do our bit in maintaining the art of carnatic music here in NZ with sizable support from organisers from Australia. But let me say this....in my last 11 experience of organsing this art here, SL Tamils have certainly done much much more than our chennai "art lovers". When it really mattered, our friends from Chennai, barring a few die hards, conveniently disappeared and the SL tamils were there to support. I think this fact has to be recognised and appreciated.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 05 Jan 2007, 11:03

my younger brother, myself and my youngest brother

So that is how you kept the tag of 747 , is it.
707--737--747 ....

On a serious note.....
I owe all my musical awareness today,to one great Sri Lankan Tamilian.
Take those inputs away from me and i am just a living Musical Corpse!!

With all the other small inputs I have from other living examples,I can see the pain and joys of a Forced migration..
May God Bless them !

gs · Post by gs » 05 Jan 2007, 16:51

vijay wrote:This might well change with the likes of Sanjays, Sudhas and TMKs coming into the scene - educated and articulate, they might well succeed in getting North Indian audiences to see how shallow their cultural sensibilities really are.

Boy! Thatâ€™s a sweeping generalization. I would really like to know how our cultural sensibilities are superior to that of North Indian. At least wrt to music, I do know some of the things in which they are found wanting.

1) They are not mature enough to ignore sruthi in classical music.
2) They donâ€™t cheat themselves that gamakams and half notes are enemies of sruthi.
3) They donâ€™t stand in line for half an hour to listen to the likes of Aruna Sairam and shout for madumeikkum kanna, clap along with her singing and yet call themselves as connoisseurs of classical music.
4) They donâ€™t package 15 songs and ragas in a 2 hr concert.

The list goes on. What carnatic music, today needs imho, are more stringent standards. Watering them down would not help.

The uninitiated get initiated by and large, by more mundane happenings. People in their mid-forties today will tell how one movie â€œSankarabharanamâ€

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Jan 2007, 19:05

Great! We agree on the valuable support the sri lankan tamils offer to CM.
AND,
on the matter that watering down (diluting) CM is not the way to go, in order to attract more listeners.

747,
Congratulations on your engagement! Elitism in music and matters of alliances--for that matter in any aspect of life--can be ignored!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 06 Jan 2007, 00:07

Hey GS, don't bother apologizing! Discussion and debate are what make this forum interesting and so long as they are civil, I welcome an opposing perspective. Anyway, addressing your very valid points:

Yes, it is a bit of a generalization to say that North Indians have a shallow understanding of our art but as generalizations go, I have to contend that mine is closer to the truth than most others. Sruthi is certainly a problem with CM but is that all there is to North Indian indifference? Or musicians who play to the gallery (as my posts points out, there are many such species in HM as well)? As for shorter pieces, Ravi Shankar's preference for shorter pieces in the "interest of sustaining audience attention" was duly discussed and condemned in the previous avatar of this forum.

The point is this - there are many competent CM orders who sing with sruthi suddham, are extremely creative as well as staunch classicists...how about KV Narayanaswamy as a good example...or Madurai Mani Iyer - how much North Indian patronage did they receive? What about MS herself - a solid counter to all the plaints above - why was she unable to get more north indians into the CM fold? What about the many instrumental giants we have produced? Why is Hari Prasad on every Indian's lips but Flute Mali known only to CM insiders? Is that not an example of indifference?

It is not my position that CM needs to grapple with some issues and Sruthi is certainly an area where HM fares better...but that does not go too far in explaining why CM continues to languish as a poor cousin. The explanation to my mind certainly does not lie in the greater calibre of Hindustani musicians - such comparisons are pointless - they have their strengths, we have ours. A combination of biased state patronage and more savvy marketing continues to be my position...as does my belief that the articulate artistes that we are churning out these days will probably succeed where the old generation failed, provided they take it up as a cause.

Anyway, it would be interesting to get the perspective of someone who has straddled both sides of the divide - Kulkarniji, your usual 2 gold coins please!

gnanasunyam · Post by **gnanasunyam** » 06 Jan 2007, 03:18

While I do not know the exact scene in India, from whate one reads or hears, it seems that the interest in HM amongst younger generation is far less than the interest in CM among south Indian youngsters (may be, thanks to pushy parents).

The number of high calbre performers in HM is already less and it is bound to keep going down.

So, over a period of time, CM may get more state patronage.

But compare with the high patronage that BharataNatyam gets vis-a-vis other forms. Why is that so? is it because some high profile people actively patronised and got Government to recognize it more? Much like MS getting far higher visibility thanks to Rajaji (no doubts about immense talent)?

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 06 Jan 2007, 04:48

Review of the book 'From the Tanjore court to the Madras Music Academy":
http://www.hindu.com/br/2006/02/28/stor ... 541600.htm

In this review an interesting comment is made that I was not aware of before:

It fell to the Madras Music Academy to establish and consolidate this recreated classical tradition through its annual conferences, through its research, and its dissemination efforts through its journal, though its hegemony over the `classical' was later, unsuccessfully, challenged by the Tamil Isai Sangham which contested the recreated classical as an exclusive Brahmanical and Sanskritic category in favour of a non-Brahmin and Tamil identity.

Is this what happened? Is the Thamizh Isai movement still active?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 06 Jan 2007, 05:26

gnanasunyam wrote:But compare with the high patronage that BharataNatyam gets vis-a-vis other forms. Why is that so? is it because some high profile people actively patronised and got Government to recognize it more?

What other forms are you refering to? Can you be more specific?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 06 Jan 2007, 06:20

gnanasunyam wrote:Much like MS getting far higher visibility thanks to Rajaji (no doubts about immense talent)?

I think that we will all be doing Sri Sadasivam a huge disservice if we think that Smt. MSS' higher visibility was because of only Rajaji. Rajaji definitely had a big role in it, but Sri Sadasivam chartered the course that brought Smt MSS sequentially to the attention of people in South India, then North India, and then, the whole world. By the time they were married, Smt. MSS was well known in CM circles in South India, and immediately after their marriage, to enhance her commitment to the 'bhakti movement and component' of CM, she acted in mIrA - it was made in tamizh first, and established her bhakti credentials with the common man, first in the South. It was remade (not dubbed) in Hindi a couple of years later, and released with an introduction by the national poet Sarojini Naidu, and screened first to a select audience. Through his contacts with Rajaji and his own deep personal involvement in the freedom struggle, Sri Sadasivam was introduced to Sri Gandhi. The Mahatma was then enslaved by Smt MSS' voice (he even preferred her to recite a bhajan than to hear anyone else 'sing' it). With comments like that, and the success of the movie mIra, she 'became' mIrA, and wildly popular in the North. A similar validation occured after independence, when Pt. Nehru became another devotee and said 'who am I, a mere PM, in front of this Queen of music'. So, once she conquered the land-mass between Kashmir and Kanyakumari, Sri Sadasivam turned his attention to the world stage - thro' connections with Narasimhan came the invitation to sing at the UN, with concerts arranged all over the US and Europe, and with the Festivals of India across Europe, Smt. MSS conquered all - like her favorite deity (mInAmbAL of madurai) - ezhundu digvijayam Seidu vandAL!
So, this 'enhanced visibility' did not happen overnight or by chance or sheer dumb luck or the sifArish of one individual - it was the result of meticulous planning, and masterful execution, and above all Smt MSS enormous talent and HARDWORK (her perfectionism ensured that there were no bad concerts, off days or excuses anywhere along the way). In addition, she carried the blessings of the presiding deity of the city of divine nectar in her throat, and in return, every note she uttered was an offering and prayer to the Almighty!

Maybe baboosh or other more informed members can tell us more or correct my impressions.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 06 Jan 2007, 06:36

Even as early as 1970 , MS had brought in over a Crore of Rupees for the various charities she was associated with- most notably Kasturba Fund , for which she started singing as early as 1944.
Maybe Rajaji received more visibility, thanks to MS !!;)

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 06 Jan 2007, 08:06

http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1412&p=2

This thread is almost a continuation of the above subject.
Since it has slightly veered around to CM-HM Issues , I will add my two cents.

( From the old thread , I confirm that we will be having some arrangement by which we - like minded rasika.orgites- can meet regularly and take this forward.With Vidwans , publishing houses, star performers around here, there will not be any dearth of WILL.And we can find a WAY.I have already got one performing artist to donate us clips in as many ragas , as he can , for some kind of a reference material for use here.
But more of that later )

Vijay.Now to our two cents.
1.Sruthi Issues is simply a matter of what a practitioner classifies for himself as VITAL, or ESSENTIAL or DESIRABLE.
A HM artist will die rather than sing OFF-SHRUTHI.That is their value system.
On the contrary , TRS never loses an opportunity to show scorn for a HM artist's sense of laya , AND THAT TOO OF THE TABALJI FIRST.
And that is the Value system here in CM.
When artistes start kanakku passages , I AM SO UNCOMFORTABLE .And especially with all my heroes..TRS, Somu, TNS.
Those passages do not look a bit like music to me.

But then CM unlike HM is such a heady mix of so many disciplines , one has to acknowledge this first before setting off on an analysis.

2.HM certainly has a bigger geographical market than CM and so , the comparisons in size of patronage can look skewed.
As a youngster I could never understand how Gregory Peck could make far more money than Natasaravabhowma Raajkumar, though he acted in only a fraction of the number of the movies starring Rajkumar.It is simply a size of the market.

But that is only the first part.
The second part is a bit more complex.

I will tackle it later.

back at the symposium - there was one defining moment for me.
PSN was explaining how it took six months of rigour to capture just one important phrase that defines some raga ( I forget which).
Eager panelists bent towards me and their eyes were almost saying-You see the point ?"
My mind was floating towards another Vidwan in the front row , who starts with these famous lines in his memorable lecdem on pallavis.
"What is there in pallavis.You, all of you can sing it too.Just try it.
And goes on to sing 1 2 3 ... 1 2 3..."
That was ironical.
Here was a disciple of such a great innovator as SSI saying it was beyond reach unless...

And here was another voice of a Die Hard conservative , who was saying "come here, it is within your grasp"
The truth , to me lies some where in between.

And that is where the secret to Whither ? lies, in my opinion.
The future is certainly going to be the age of the exponent , rather than the performer.
You Vijay, and others , are not a performing Critic â€“ you are an exponent , trying to rephrase one form of impulses into a written word .
Cant we see what AM Sharma does here , or DRS , or those disciples of SRJ- or bharath when he mixes up theory and real experiences.. and so many others here
Believe me, I talk to a lot of Kids who learn music these days , and they are far more endowed than a Mama of the 80s ,who would spring to life , the moment a well known krithi or raga started unfolding.
Some of them even tell me CM is Dead â€¦
Take a Slice from the approach of performers who burst on the stage , say since 1970 ,
Once can see a process of consolidation , repetition, cloning , adventurism and today I can name at least 8 different vocalists with a very identifiable unique approach to the complex syllabus.And this only the beginning.
Not that , this problem is solved in HM.It has started getting out to be stale there.
When Chaurasia starts his chandrakauns or a bagesree . I get up and walk out , even If I have paid Rs 100 for the ticket.
And I can walk miles to a Kishori Concert- God Knows , which of Mansoors gems she would have picked up for polishing and presenting.
Mansoorâ€™s soul â€“ who stopped singing well known ragas early in life ,would be resting peace with such an approach.

( yellaru yaman puria hadkontha iddare, berey anatha shishugalannu yaru saktharappa --- IF EVERYONE SINGS ONLY YAMAN , PURIYA, WHO WILL CARE FOR THE OTHER ORPHANS ?)

1981 ... Jasraj was a sight for the Gods at Kalakshetra-- two hours of Desh ang ki jaijawanthi and matha kalika and he was like a heap of wet clothes at the end of it.I swear to God, I have seen him being lifted and helped out of the dias after the performance.
all watched by a stunned audience.
Cut to 2004 KGS.
all bedecked in jewellery, rudrakshas, chanting Om namo vasudevaya after an utterly miserably 90 mts of yaman ..and the sight from the dias ..the whole audience erupting in unison for the 6 mts of druth.
sad sight of an artist playing to the gallery.
So I dont take the patronage of HM at face value.

So the road forward is not easy to understand.This music never had a Top-Down character.It was always a Bottoms up approach.

Any set of activities that realise this truth will make headway..
More on that later.This has ended up being another rant

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 06 Jan 2007, 13:28

Dilution of CM - what exactly does it mean.

Is a PhD justified to call 6th standard scince syllabus as dilution of standards. Is it OK for a university professor to accuse a primary class taecher of teaching sub standard
stuff.

If you are going to take a first time listner to a concert with a 1 hr raga alapana, you have lost one potential rasika for ever. Take him to a Kunnakudi / Aruna concert , the chances are that he will return again to the concert hall. How can we accuse Kunnakudi & others of diluting standards. Is it not equivalent to professor calling a primary school teacher sub standard. Out of every 100 primary school students may be one may reach PG level but you can't term the primary schools as 99% failures & shut
them down. You will lose even that single student.

If we accuse PSN & Sulochana Pattabiraman of sitting in a high pedestal & preaching , are we not equally guilt of the same (sitting on slightly lower pedestal & talk about dilution).

If Sanjays & TMKs are to continue in thier business 30 years from now, we need more primary school teachers like Kunnakudi. Other wise they may be singing to empty calls 30 years from now.

I may not personally wish to attend a concert of Aruna Sayeeram or Kunnakudi but you can't dismiss thier contibution by taking the argument of dilution of standards.

There is a difference between broadbasing & flattening. If we are not going to enroll more students in the primary schools & encourage the teachers, universities & professors will be out of business in future.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 06 Jan 2007, 14:56

If we accuse PSN & Sulochana Pattabiraman of sitting in a high pedestal & preaching ,

I am afraid you will have to read a bit more carefully before making such sweeping remarks . I have done nothing of that sort.
And for Gods sake dont think that I really believe that pallavis can be learnt after demystifying them , in a day.

The truth lies in the fact that , someone has to think of the common man on the road , before thinking out a plan to cajole him to walk inside.
My My.. Even barbers do more research in these matters .

And as far as the case for Kunnakudi is concerned , my two cents are that it is simply a matter of aesthetics, or the lack of it.
Nothing else explains what happens on his stage , least of all the need to rope in the gallery people to classicism.

Sowmya once told me that she was horrified to learn that 70 % of the 14 year olds (or below) who applied for a RajTv program
did not know who Semmangudi was( as part of the interviewing/screening process).

That rankles me when I refer to the happenings at the symposium- It was not derision.I have full respect for the panelists.Take it or leave it.

Your analogy of Primary school teachers was also out of place.I still remember most of my Primary school teachers for the simple reason that the stuff they taught me was sustainable even in later years.

And God bless those souls who can be aesthetically beautiful while still technically correct.

My son is dancing to a Barase Barase by another similar big HM name , who performed in Chennai recently and it is time for me to go to the terrace .The sound of the train rushing past my home looks more tuneful.

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 06 Jan 2007, 16:32

coolkarni wrote:
If we accuse PSN & Sulochana Pattabiraman of sitting in a high pedestal & preaching ,
I am afraid you will have to read a bit more carefully before making such sweeping remarks . I have done nothing of that sort

Sorry if you took it personally. I just made that reference in the context of the discussion on dilution of CM as articulated in this forum & elsewhere.

And as far as the case for Kunnakudi is concerned , my two cents are that it is simply a matter of aesthetics, or the lack of it.

Again he was an example. We do comment about many vidwans on diluting the standard or singing to the gallerry.

Sowmya once told me that she was horrified to learn that 70 % of the 14 year olds (or below) who applied for a RajTv program
did not know who Semmangudi was( as part of the interviewing/screening process).

Well how do you make a 14 year old to know about Semmangudi. By making then listen to his tapes?. Sorry, i don't think any one uninitiated to music can appreciate SSI. You make them listen to the so called 'diluters' , create an appetite in them for music and then give them SSI.

Your analogy of Primary school teachers was also out of place.I still remember most of my Primary school teachers for the simple reason that the stuff they taught me was sustainable even in later years.

Again you have misunderstood my analogy. Initiate the new rasikas slowly & steadily into appreciating CM'. Just because one has crossed a stage, it doesn't mean that stage is irrelevant. I have travelled across Chennai 20 years back to listen to TVS singing 'kana kan kodi vendum'. But today i just leave if he starts that song in a concert. But there are umpteen others who are today what i was 20 years ago who just come to the concert to listen that song and who am i to complain.

I compare primary school teachers to vidwans who give you lighter stuff, known stuff .not neccessarily technically incorrect stuff

If we are going to ignore the role of Aruna Sayeerams & others who sing for eh gallerry we are missing an very important link in the evolution of a rasika

Look at what Adithanar did . He inculcated the habbit of news paper reading to the masses many whom may switch over to The Hindus & TOIs at a latter stage.

sindhu · Post by **sindhu** » 06 Jan 2007, 16:35

Coolji,

Knowing about Semmangudi by teen agers is a must. I do agree with that. In other field also, say Tamil cinema, today's kids do not know much about Legend Actor Shivaji, who is said to have been icon for years. It goes like that.

-sb-

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 06 Jan 2007, 16:53

btw kunnakudi plays tomorrow at 8 30am on jaya tv.
watch out for our good friend manakkal sriram accompanying him.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 06 Jan 2007, 23:05

Kulkarniji, your analytical and anecdotal concoction is potent as always! I would agree with you on 2 points that you imply:

The popularity of musicians is a result of certain opinion-makers who have a certain influence on the mass imagination - Jasraj's example is a good one here. MS would fall into this category too although in her case she could "play to the gallery" without having to dilute her standards one bit - but how many artists are so blessed.

That the present generation is better placed to serve the larger cause of CM - my point was limited to their ability to articulate and communicate in languages other than Tamil. You stick your neck out to say that their musical quest is loftier than the previous generation as well (if not necessairly the output, at least not yet)..shabaash! I will stick my neck out too to say that I agree with you here as well.

I can't agree or disagree with Gnanasunyam about youngsters in HM versus CM but I have been following the youngsters in CM - Sanjays and Krishnas are only the tip of the iceberg - there is a galaxy of others one sees slogging away in 12:30 and 2:30 kutcheries, trying out new ragas, daringly innovative in laya - it may not always be pleasant to hear but I can see a bunch of extremely committed yongsters who are very proud of their heritage but not content to rest with "periyavaallan ellam panni vecchutu poitta" (the mahaans have left nothing to explore).

I must also concede Raju Sir's point - we need the crowd pullers as well although we obviously need to draw the line on what is totally unacceptable - there is a point beyond which even crowds have negative utility for the art. However, as far as SSI is concerned, he was one of the artists that hooked me to CM. I am not countering your point - merely suggesting that SSI is not the best example because despite his weird voice, he manages to get across to lay listeners. I know many friends who would not think of listening to CM but are somehow touched by SSI's music - of course, they are all South Indians. I once played some SSI tapes to a "wider audience" - their comments were so hurtful that I have stopped trying to "proselytize" anymore!

Now if we could address what I see as 3 fundamental changes that I would like to see in CM

A greater emphasis on Sruthi - I could even do without Sahithya-suddham but Sruti is too fundamental to music to ignore beyond a point and I believe that a fundamental revolution needs to take place in the way teaching is done to enable this.

Giving the "Ariyakudi format" the ol' heave-ho, at least gradually...it had its uses when CM was just emerging from the courts to the public domain. The art has grown, audiences have matured - let us respect them a little more. Move towards 3-4 hour cutcheries, fewer pieces, more elaborate explorations. To accommodate lay interests, perhaps we could have a first half consisting of more pieces followed by an intermission (absolutely necessary, given 21st century bladder capacties!) after which there could be a really elaborate exploration and finally some tukkadas. Call the bluff of those who think CM is all about parroting pre-composed pieces.

Introspect on how to get across to a wider audiences better, especially the youth. CM will never appeal to the masses but I think there is a larger market waiting to be tapped than exists today. The trick lies in establishing a rapport with it. Musicians like SAnjay and Krishna help because the youth can easily identify with them. The brand persona of CM has to change from one associated with doddering old men to a vibrant and passion-filled art form that appeals to the soul as much as it does to the intellect. Sorry if it sounds scandalous but we need to make CM "cool" - I am not talking abouy any alterations to the music, merely about its image. Ravi Shankar is cool but TNS is not - that's what I mean...

But all this requires the community, or at least a substantial part of it, to get together and we all know why that will never happen!!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 06 Jan 2007, 23:49

vijay wrote:A greater emphasis on Sruthi - I could even do without Sahithya-suddham but Sruti is too fundamental to music to ignore beyond a point and I believe that a fundamental revolution needs to take place in the way teaching is done to enable this.

Not to counter this too much (as i agree with the basic idea

) but during the "golden days" as people who lament on today's conditions refer back, sruthi-suddham wasnt exactly top notch (for all giants), cm enjoyed lot of popularity.

Another point which occurred to me - i am not sure how valid it is. I think at the beginning stage, we perhaps put "too much" emphasis on laya. For example, doing the alankaras in various talas in different speeds, and also even the mElkAlam for varnams. Now all these are very good exercises no doubt, but would they be better suited a bit later i.e. once you have very sound execution of the swara-sthanas (for alankaras) and the swara contours (for varnams)?

For me personally, just the fact that my hands are putting tala, means that a good significant part of my attention is focused on it (wondering - am i doing it constant speed etc.) That attention is an attention away from the melody. In tricky talams (e.g. miSra jhampa in alankAra), or tricky swara passages (like the ones in varnams), the attention for me gets heavily slanted towards putting tala, and hence I find myself very susceptible to messing up the melody. Now the doctor's prescription is of course practice and more practice. But can the lessons be structured better? Right now when I sing a varnam in mEl kAlam sort of "free flow" no talam, i find that i do much better justuce to the melody, i have more "time" to think about delivering correct gamakas etc. But it is pretty much guaranteed that i am off talam

. Tell me which is a worser sin and more jarring to the listener:
1. You did a fine job on the melody, but you were off talam here and there and messed landing on samam.2
2. You did a fine job on the melody, you were off talam here and there but had the sense to muzhippify ("adjust") so that you somehow landed on samam correctly
3. You were perfect on talam, but your melody was messed up in a couple of places (sruthi faults or gamakas not right)

Also, doesnt HM not have this other tala factor (atleast while learning)? Cant we go easy on tala initially (and thus concentrate all attention on sruthi-sudhddham, getting swara-contours/gamakas right), and then do it at little bit later advanced stage? Will that help?

Arun

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 07 Jan 2007, 00:04

Arun's article on learning CM triggered a train of thought on how we can improve the rasika-base for CM...
- how about providing a quick and dirty intro to say 10 popular ragas (e.g. todi, bhairavi etc.) and get the participants to identify these ragas from a few film songs played to them. Then slowly ease them into a kutcheri setting where some of these ragas are sung, and get them to identify them again. Then let them loose...

I find that the satisfaction that comes with recognising a raga is amazing. It opens a whole new world to the person, and there's a better chance they will start listening more. Doesn't matter if it's light stuff initially, but soon a good percentage of them will graduate into more serious rasikas. Without this dimension being opened to them, they end up blindly going thru a few concerts, then give up - and go back to 'Raguman'

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 07 Jan 2007, 00:09

Vijay - intermissions are the worst interruption to the mood of the kutcheri, at least for me. You can always take a quick leak break *during* the kutcheri (I know, bad manners), but let's not go down the path of intermissions and iddli/vada breaks please! I find this happening more and more, and try to fight it wherever possible. (a losing battle, I must admit!)

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 07 Jan 2007, 09:24

some insights on the WHENCE angle.

Yesterday I spent a fine lazy afternoon , with thatwamasi's Dad, listening to Karikurchi...unstructured listening..
And ,in between,he took me through all the exciting roads he had traversed in his childhood,while developing a ear for music.

He , pointed out each and every single spot of land in and around West Mambalam where some musical activity or the other would be happening , all through the year ! With tears.

That spot where the Doreswamy subway joins Usman road --
One old gentleman used to have akhandam sessions-- there used to be so many singers- My Dad would come searching for me at 2 am..
and then closer to the arya gowder road , another elderly person used to have weekly radha kalyanam sessions....
and in my own home we had , on every friday , thriruppgazh singing sessions....
and i can go on and on
Today i can see only shopping complexes , in those spots.

If that is the story of a metro, back home in my native place , the place is still active with closer-to-the-ground musical activity.
All through the year.And on days when there are no special religious significance, a Voice is heard loud and clear -of a Mami who has been singing "Gamaka Paattu " for decades- That wonderful genre of music that straddles CM-HM-
Long long passages from classic poetry adapted for singing by unbridled imagination...

So is it all a question of bringing back or retaining an environment?
Sadly we all assume that what happens on a stage is a proper index.

How do get back that "whence" all over again.Sure certain things cannot be reversed.But the Kid of today.What chance has she / he got of diving into the pool , at its deepest end ?

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 07 Jan 2007, 16:02

My early memories of listening to CM are of brisk kutcheris held under a big pandal infront of the local temple. The experience used to be electrifying, so different from the staid sabha atmosphere today. Nothing like the open air, the occasional honking of cars, bicycles, temple bells, to create the right ambience. And it was a great way for the music to connect with the general public. The average man-on-the-street would stop and listen, then move on, carrying the music inside his head.

CM belongs out there amongst the masses, not inside air-conditioned auditoriums.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 07 Jan 2007, 18:50

Did it not assume the role of background entertainment?

As in, chatting, coming, going, general social stuff background.

Or did that only start with the sabhas

?

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 08 Jan 2007, 19:37

This thread has two streams , one is HM-CM and the other is why CM does not reach massess?I Just have one opinion for why CM does not reach masses?

There can be many frontiers to appreciate CM performers. But what is important is each of us have to intelligently coerce the uninitiated and sometimes go along with the wishes of our family/cousins etc... to listen to CM,sometimes sacrificing our individual taste on that day.

When I meant our individual taste , it is the musical sense that generally gets slowly trickled up when we hear more CM and/or also be an active/passive internet forum participator. There is no point in growing few horns in our head. If needed you have to rewind your own time machine.

How many of us here can show by a simple count of how much CM ,your generation hears to how much CM your previous generations hear? In my house it is 3 to 18.My generation total count of people is close to 40.Thats 3 out of 40(too less).CM needs a social movement beginning at the house like literacy campaign of kerala.

The points about CM being always perceived as pro brahminical is right on the bulls eye. But I am also assuming that you may have a same problem like in my house.

My wife puts conditions like I would only like to listen rAgas like AbhOgi as main and not any big 5's. My wife's mother in law feels that hearing hindOlam and Anandabhairavi is the start and end of CM ,because her first priority is to leave the concert at 8pm inorder to wake up next day at 4AM.

My grandfather's and grandmother's had a reasonably good solution to that problem , an assertive come and hear that's it no questions asked direction. Perhaps we (both men and women) have lost all that assertion that existed in that world then.

Also my athimber used to take me to concerts sacrificing his taste, I remember in 80's where I insisted let us hear 1st half of KVN and a second half of MLV on the same day. He just sacrificed his taste and came in my way then , as I found the reverse unbearable . Are we all willing to sacrifice like that??

This year I did coerce my wife and mom to listen to 2 concerts(who are hell bent on thinking that CM in jaya tv 6 to 7pm is more than enough..) . Next year , should try with that 40 folks(ring tone idiots)of my present generation. I need time to prepare a game plan, as I am the youngest in that generation , I cannot take an assertive or a coercice route?

In my opinion we have to discuss strategies of how we are coercing, forcing our siblings/adults and next generation to the sabhas as rasikas . My wife and my mom are sweet to me, dont run any mega serials there. If somebody is interested in kunnakudi so be it, if someone is interested in vijayashiva so be it. As rajumds said, we need both.

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 08 Jan 2007, 20:30

rajeshnat wrote:My wife's mother in law feels that hearing hindOlam and Anandabhairavi is the start and end of CM ,because her first priority is to leave the concert at 8pm inorder to wake up next day at 4AM.

ROFL. My wife's mother-in-law!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 Jan 2007, 23:30

Rajesh,
Let me try my hand at it--
MaheshS,
Rajesh's wife's mother-in-law's son, his mother's husband and father's wife and their daughter-in-law and the rest of the family have a good sense of humor...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 Jan 2007, 23:32

Nick,
Now, this is a true test of your indian-ness! How much of it did you follow??!!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Jan 2007, 00:04

(arasi... I turn off at such explanations of relationship quicker than I turned off mathematics at school.... Test failed!)

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 09 Jan 2007, 03:54

In my opinion we have to discuss strategies of how we are coercing, forcing our siblings/adults and next generation to the sabhas as rasikas .

perhaps start by sending that idiot-box to the repairman??