rAgam identity and meaning of words in "vaDavaraiyai..."

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 09 Jan 2007, 05:25

I have two questions.

1. Would someone care to identify the six rAgams in the rAgamAlika rendition of "vaDavaraiyai mattAkki..." sung my MS at the 1966 UN concert? In case you want to hear it the link is:
http://www.udbhava.com/udbhava/songs.jsp?id=556

2. In the second stanza starting with "aRuporuL ivan enRE.." there is a line, "uRupasi onRu inRiyE ulagu aDaiya uNDanaiyE". What is the episode that is referred to here? Why did Vishnu swallow all the worlds? For what purpose?

In the fourth stanza, there is a line, "cO araNum pOr maDiyat tol ilangai kaTTazhitta". It appears the fortress around the city of lankA is named "cO". Can somebody verify this?

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 09 Jan 2007, 05:37

Thank you for pointing to this site.
1. Hamsanandi, Khamas, Hindolam, Shanmukhapriya, Paraz, Kapi
2. <no idea>

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 09 Jan 2007, 05:38

The rAgas in the rAga mAlike are

hamsAnandi
kamAch
hindOLa
shaNmukhapriya
paraz
kApi (looks like it..)

-Ramakriya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 09 Jan 2007, 05:38

jayaram

our posts crossed each other

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 09 Jan 2007, 05:46

Yes, by a few seconds...

Btw, perhaps we can organize a raga-identification quiz some time here. DRS can be the quiz-master?

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 09 Jan 2007, 05:55

That would be fun!

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 09 Jan 2007, 11:46

mahakavi,
SRImannArAyaNan swallows the world during praLayA (dissolution of the worlds) to protect us & it. tyAgarAja svAmi refers to this event in the anupallavi of brOva BAramA raGu rAma in bahudAri as SRIvAsudEvA anDakOTla kukSini unjukO lEdA? SrivAsudEvA! didn't you protect the crores of the worlds by keeping them in you stomach?

The same mouth which swallowed the world also swallowed balls of butter which were just the size of his mouth. Such a beautiful comparison.

Also, I hear cOmaranum instead of cOmaraNum. But either ways I don't know what it means. Somebody well versed with the sangattamizh should help us out. Sorry!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Jan 2007, 16:13

Could it be kO (cO?) araNum--of the king's (ravaNA's) fortress?

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 09 Jan 2007, 20:24

'uru pasi ondrinriye ulaganaya undanaiye'- krishna eats mud and yasoda gets very angry. krishna lies that he has not eaten anything and yasoda not believing him asks him to open his mouth and to her astonishment finds the entire universe in his mouth. this is only referred to in the song.
this song appears in silappadhikaram in 'aaychiyar kuravai' an ancient form of singing in praise of lord. kannagi and kovalan stayed in the house of a cow herd lady and the lady on getting indications of bad omen sings the song in praise of krishna.

'sonararum than madiya' - this refers to the clan of ravana

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 09 Jan 2007, 20:31

Btw, the ragam listed as Kapi for Maithreem bhajata at the Udbhava site is not correct. The song starts in Yamuna kalyani, glides thru Surati, and arrives at Kapi.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 09 Jan 2007, 21:07

jayaram wrote:Btw, perhaps we can organize a raga-identification quiz some time here. DRS can be the quiz-master?

Good idea. Give me some time.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 09 Jan 2007, 23:02

Jayaram, ramakriya:
Thanks for the rAgams identification. I got only 4 right by my own reckoning.

ksrimech:
Thanks for your explanation of swallowing of the worlds. chalanata's figurative explanation refers to the imagination of yasOdha. However, her imagination must be an incidental illusion since she had no knowledge of the VishNu episode krismech mentions. For her Krishna was just a child who displays occasional magic moments to her. iLangO aDigaL would not refer to that illusion, I guess.

arasi,krimech,chalanata:

I have the original text of Silappathikaram (two different publications). The authentic line is "cO araNum pOr maDiyat tol ilangai kaTTazhitta".

It (cO) obviously refers to the fortress walls surrounding the city of lanKApuri. Rama, upon landing in the island, despatches his monkey brigade leaders to the four gates of the fortress to gain entry from different directions. I will have to refer to kambarAmayaNam to see if he mentions "cO". Perhaps it is in vAlmiki rAmAyaNam since iLangO aDigaL (2nd century CE) refers to it by name.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 09 Jan 2007, 23:09

drshrikaanth wrote:
jayaram wrote:Btw, perhaps we can organize a raga-identification quiz some time here. DRS can be the quiz-master?
Good idea. Give me some time.

How are we suppose to give out the answers
Will we be graded?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 09 Jan 2007, 23:20

Hang on. I have not even planned it out yet.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 10 Jan 2007, 05:45

Suggest we have a trial run first to iron out the kinks...

a suggested format:
1. agree on a date and time for the quiz to happen (keep aside an hour for this)
2. DRS will then type in the link to the music location (is it possible to insert the audio clip directly in the posting here, like we can do for You-tube videos? srkris?)
3. the participants quickly listen to the music, and post the ragas identified.
4. DRS judges the results
5. Finally, the prizes are awarded! (a virtual pat on the back?)

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 10 Jan 2007, 10:21

mahakavi,
thanks. i stand corrected about soaranum por--'. regarding the worlds yasoda episode looks more plausible because of the following lines indicating krishna gulping butter.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 10 Jan 2007, 21:05

chalanata:
I am not ruling out the Yasodha episode of seeing the universe in Krishna's mouth. However, I feel it is only one person's illusion as opposed to any incident described in the purANAs such as the avatArams. In the previous stanza there is a contrast provided (mighty churning of pARkaDal vs hands having been bound by a rope by Yasodha) and hence there must be a "reality " show of swallowing the worlds versus eating a ball of butter in the same mouth. Having said that I agree that it is an alternative explanation.

I am writing an article based on this song to be published in chennaionline.com

Rajani · Post by **Rajani** » 11 Jan 2007, 12:09

I think this may refer to the incident of Krishna eating a grain of rice and a piece of greens from Draupadi's Akshayapatram, though He was not really hungry, resulting in the whole world feeling sated.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 11 Jan 2007, 20:18

Valid point, rajani!
That incident, however, was meant to satiate only Durvasar and his disciples. Right? Is there also a mention somewhere that the entire world (ulagu aDaiya uNDanaiyE) was satiated? Perhaps the word "ulagu" is used in a limited sense here????

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 11 Jan 2007, 21:19

Srimad-bhAgavataM - Book 10, Chapter 81 - Episode of sudAmA -

नन्वेतदुपनीतं मे परमप्रीणनं सखे। तर्पयन्त्यङ्ग माम् विश्वमेते पृथुकतण्डुलाः।। 9 ।।
nanvEtadupanItaM mE paramaprINanaM sakhE |
tarpayantyanga mAM viSvamEtE pRthukataNDulA: || 9 ||

"Here you have brought Me something which I like most. These grains of beaten rice will satisfy not only Me, but the whole world.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 11 Jan 2007, 21:48

welcome back vgv,
you've started with a bang! a quote from bagavatham! please be a 'stithaprgya' and continue with your 'nishkamya karma'!

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 11 Jan 2007, 22:53

vgvindan,
Im glad you are back. Enlighten us!

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 12 Jan 2007, 12:49

VGvindan Sir,

You are absolutely correct. Now it makes more sense.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 12 Jan 2007, 22:15

Thank you, vgvindan! Now the line makes more sense. "uRu pasi onRu inRiyE ulagu aDaiya uNDanaiyE" (Without being hungry you ate which accrued to the world). The key word is "aDaiya" which means "obtain" or "accrue" among other meanings.
The vision seen by Yasodha or the description of T about the worlds being present in the Lord's stomach for protection, while relevant elsewhere, do not fit this description of iLangO aDigaL, I think. The vast knowledge of iLangO aDigaL regarding the various episodes of the purANAs and the precise/crisp description is amazing!

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 12 Jan 2007, 22:36

சோ, (p. 520) [ cō, ] s. An imitative sound of raining, ஒலிக்குறிப்பு. 2. Fortification, defence, அரண். சோவென்றுமழைபிடித்தது. It rained with a gushing sound.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 12 Jan 2007, 22:46

வடவரையை மத்தாக்கி வாசுகியை நாணாக்கிக் 1
கடல்வண்ணன் பண்டொருநாள் கடல்வயிறு கலக்கினையே
கலக்கியகை அசோதையார் கடைகயிற்றாற் கட்டுண்கை
மலர்க்கமல உந்தியாய் மாயமோ மருட்கைத்தே;

அறுபொருள் இவனென்றே அமரர்கணந் தொழுதேத்த 2
உறுபசியொன் றின்றியே உலகடைய உண்டனையே
உண்டவாய் களவினான் உறிவெண்ணெ யுண்டவாய்
வண்டுழாய் மாலையாய் மாயமோ மருட்கைத்தே;

திரண்டமரர் தொழுதேத்தும் திருமால்நின் செங்கமல 3
இரண்டடியான் மூவுலகும் இருள்தீர நடந்தனையே
நடந்தஅடி பஞ்சவர்க்குத் தூதாக நடந்தஅடி
மடங்கலாய் மாறட்டாய் மாயமோ மருட்கைத்தே;

மூவுலகும் ஈரடியான் முறைநிரம்பா வகைமுடியத் 1
தாவியசே வடிசேப்பத் தம்பியொடுங் கான்போந்து
சோவரணும் போர்மடியத் தொல்லிலங்கை கட்டழித்த
சேவகன்சீர் கேளாத செவி என்ன செவியே
திருமால்சீர் கேளாத செவி என்ன செவியே;

பெரியவனை மாயவனைப் பேருலக மெல்லாம் 2
விரிகமல உந்தியுடை விண்ணவனைக் கண்ணும்
திருவடியும் கையும் திருவாயும் செய்ய
கரியவனைக் காணாத கண்ணென்ண கண்ணே
கண்ணிமைத்துக் காண்பார்தம் கண்ணென்ண கண்ணே;

மடந்தாழு நெஞ்சத்துக் கஞ்சனார் வஞ்சம் 3
கடந்தானை நூற்றுவர்பால் நாற்றிசையும் போற்றப்
படர்ந்தா ரணமுழங்கப் பஞ்சவர்க்குத் தூது
நடந்தானை ஏத்தாத நாவென்ன நாவே
நாராயணா வென்னா நாவென்ன நாவே;

http://www.infitt.org/pmadurai/mp111.html

Regarding சோவரண் please refer to previous post.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 13 Jan 2007, 17:10

another explanation comes to my mind. God creates the world and the universe like a spider weaving a web from out of its saliva. in the end He eats away every thing. This is what is explained by Arjuna while witnessing the 'viswa roopa'. scientifically this also matches the big bang theory. (uru pasi ondrindrye ulaganaya undanaiye...)

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 14 Jan 2007, 00:08

Yes chalanata. But the word is not ulagu anaya but its ulagu adaya. So the meaning given by vgvindan sir is more appropriate I think we can trust Project Madurai.