Article - South Indian Performing Arts: Whence? Where Now? W

vsnatarajan · Post by **vsnatarajan** » 09 Jan 2007, 08:29

my two cents.

of late, being religious and ritualistic have begun to be percieved as Brahminical traits. in the last one year, when idols were being broken in tamil nadu, it was a way to flame the brahmins only and most of the castes did not show any response, overtly atleast.

Like wise, barring some Pillai's and vellalars, most of the Religious people who are not brahmins follow bhakthi way in a simple down to earth non carnatical way. They do appreciate carnatic way but no hard statistics on whether they learn it and pass it along.

And this is also forced by the Goverment in all Temples.

For the NRI's and especially the brahmins who are settled in far away lands, making their kids learn carnatic music and Bharatha natyam became some symbols of maintaining the links with their culture. I have seen some of my nieces asking why carnatic music and why not Piano and they eventually took the piano..

the hard fact is also that there are more rasikas than people who really have learnt the nuances. And the rasikas charity should start from home.

best way to go forward is to get to the basics. bring up kids in a religious way, espousing the great saints. tell them God can be reached so easily through Bakhthi and carnatic music. Some kids will have atitude to learn and some may not.

Over the long run, if the younger generation appreciates/learns/patronizes CM, CM will grow. else it will also get much more localized. Now it is brahmins. tomorrow, the NRI brahmins. The day after, the Cleveland community.
And then in the SmithSonian..

This is all we can do.

PS-- I read a couple of days ago that lord MahaVishnu Statue was found in a Volgan Excavation in Soviet Russia. Now mahaVishnu statues are diminshing and are being broken. after a couple of centuries there will be none. everything withers away and is part of Divine plan, I guess.

vsnatarajan · Post by **vsnatarajan** » 09 Jan 2007, 08:47

I also apologise if i used brahmin term to many times. IT does not exclude any body.
After all, people who learn the CM are the chosen ones and the rasikas are the blessed ones. Regardless of how and where they are Born

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 09 Jan 2007, 09:51

VSN

Regardless of how and where they are Born

Someday you should read an English Translation of a Kannada Novel by SL Bhairappa -Vamsha Vriksha -
( I presume you do not know Kannada )

You will love it.
It was made into a Kannada Movie too ( as well as in Hindi , if my memory serves me right )

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 09 Jan 2007, 09:54

Coolkarni/vsn

Avoid the movie(kannada or hindi for that matter) like a plague! They do not come near even to a millionth of the novel!

Probably Vamshavriksha is translated to Tamizh as well. Bhairappa's novels have been tranlated to almost all Indian languages.

Coolkarni,

Have you read 'mandra'? Bhairappa's latest novel - The main character of the novel is a musician..

-Ramakriya

kkumar29 · Post by **kkumar29** » 09 Jan 2007, 10:39

It is interesting to read all the comments on how to engage the masses. 40 odd years back when I was new to the carnatic music listening scene I happened to hear a concert by Kunnakudi Vaidyanathan. He played a wonderful Todi and followed it by Thaye Yasoda. I had seen girls in my family dance to this song and I was fascinated by the swarams he played. Of course later on in the concert he played a song from a popular movie (edu thandanadi tillayille, I think). His playing evoked an interest in me to listen more to the likes of MMI, SSI etc and I got converted into a fanatic rasika.

In one of the other threads bala747 has expressed his opinions about KV, his vidwat and playing style. Had any of this vitriol been directed at me because I enjoyed his music, I would have run from the carnatic scene like a bullet out of a gun.

Part of the problem is that there is an inherent elitism in us rasikas who listen to carnatic music. We demand not only musical purity, lyrical purity but also we want the performer to exhibit bhakthi, absolutely blemishless life style and so on. This generally scares any remotely interested person away. Even in this forum meant for rasikas, we ridicule people who listen to KJY or MSanthanm. What we seem to forget is that music is a very personal thing and we should encourage all and sundry to enjoy it in whichever way they can. Just imagine one of us wanting to play tennis and when we get on to the court we are laughed out of the court because we can not play like Roger Federer!

That seems to be the situation today with carnatic music. My solution is we as performers and rasikas should live and let live so everyone can enjoy this wonderful art form to the extent they can without fear or ridicule by others.

K. Kumar.

vsnatarajan · Post by **vsnatarajan** » 09 Jan 2007, 16:23

coolkarni wrote:VSN
Regardless of how and where they are Born
Someday you should read an English Translation of a Kannada Novel by SL Bhairappa -Vamsha Vriksha -
( I presume you do not know Kannada )

You will love it.
It was made into a Kannada Movie too ( as well as in Hindi , if my memory serves me right )

I will surely. I got a gist from the google. yes, whatever said and done, for some journeys, the roads need to be made by ourself and we also need to chisel ourself to fit into what exactly we want to be.

thanks.

vsnatarajan · Post by **vsnatarajan** » 09 Jan 2007, 16:25

kkumar29 wrote:lyrical purity but also we want the performer to exhibit bhakthi,
K. Kumar.

Agreed Kumar.
bhakthi was the way it got into me.
Music is for all moods and occasions.
we need to bring up kids with a sense of appreciating music. CM especially, since we can relate to it from our daily life

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Jan 2007, 16:48

In my view, yes, kkumar, a 'live and let live' attitude is healthy for CM. We are all entitled to be rasikas. There are so many CM musicians out there, pleasing various kinds of rasikas. Elitism in a rasika means that he is not open minded to tolerate other styles of CM to coexist with his chosen variety. All schools of CM, all vidwans have their place in the CM world. Our tastes make us prefer one over the other. It doesn't mean we have to deride other styles or vidwans.
When I was a child, I have heard MMI being criticized--'what nonsense! Listen to all his Ay Uys and rallallAs!'. He elated so many rasikas and elevated CM to new heights--and the younger generation today is smart enough to recognize his worth...

Ananth · Post by **Ananth** » 09 Jan 2007, 19:38

my two cents:
There are two aspects to what we generally call quality:

1. grade: this is the 'positioning' of the product / artiste with respect to its intended use or result.
2. quality: this is the extent to which the artiste / product meets standards set for the intended purpose.

To give an example, AIR has this practice of grading its artistes as Grade-B, Grade-A, A-top etc (or similar). But that does not mean that, some one in Grade-B is delivering bad quality music.
On the other extreme, TNS is a top-grade musician, but he has an occassional bad day and delivers a low quality concert. (all subjective, of course)

When talking of Kunnakkudi et al, it might help to remember this distinction.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 09 Jan 2007, 19:59

lalgudi's violin has a soothing effect on a person in death bed. it gives him shanthi. kunnakkudi's violin is capable of reviving a person in the death bed. the accusations which we make about kk can be made about lshankar and chowdiah probably in a slightly higher plane.kk's aberi is vibrant despite the antics. these things are rather caused by mind sets and they go with the personality. MSG's bowing technique has an element of HM but after all these years we are able to understand and enjoy it thoroughly.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 09 Jan 2007, 20:22

kunnakkudi's violin is capable of reviving a person in the death bed

It did actually
I remember reading a story about him and his Dad.Not sure if it was on an LP sleeve, but I distinctly remember that the source was an authoritative one.

Ananth · Post by **Ananth** » 09 Jan 2007, 20:51

Is this what we call 'scaring some one out of his deathbed' ?!
(just kidding)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Jan 2007, 22:37

KV is a such a colorful personality. In some households, they buy goods in bulk. I bet they have a standing order for kilos of kumkum at his. I saw him in all his glory yesterday on the telecast tyAgarAja ArAdhanA. Those who are familiar with Mr.T would have remembered him. All those gold chains made him outshine some of the female singers...

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 09 Jan 2007, 23:04

Frankly I did get interested in violin as a kid when I first saw him playing on TV. And I even told my teacher. She smiled and said you shouldn't play like him. I replied I cannot play like him.

He does enjoy playing and entertaining with all his facial expressions.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Jan 2007, 23:23

Suji,
I like that: she smiled and said, you shouldn't play like him. I said, I cannot play like him--ah, children can be so charming (I bet you still are)!

Music · Post by **Music** » 10 Jan 2007, 00:59

Nice to read so many different ideas & experiences on this topic.

kkumar29 wrote:His playing evoked an interest in me to listen more to the likes of MMI, SSI etc and I got converted into a fanatic rasika.

KV is another artist who can attract lay audiences. There are some unconventional things that he adopts that must do the trick, but so what if it helps perpetuate CM? Does this result in dilution of CM? If his music can still revive someone from the deathbead, then I guess not.

Carnatic Music, or any other form of music for that matter is acquired taste. Unless more people are initiated into it, CM artists & rasikas would become more and more of a minority over time.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 10 Jan 2007, 01:37

arasi wrote:Suji,
I like that: she smiled and said, you shouldn't play like him. I said, I cannot play like him--ah, children can be so charming (I bet you still are)!

continuing..

Later, during my stay in Germany I was so CM starved that I asked someone to get me some CD's -violin and vocal. The package arrived with one MSG, one TNK and nearly a dozen of KV. Probably that's the ratio of 1:1:12 of Commercial CD's in violin then!

Famished I was, I really listened to all those reminiscing....

MSG's begadA and TNK's sArAmati however, got etched in me forever.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jan 2007, 08:27

Suji, while the rasika aspect in us is drawn to different musicians according to our tastes, as a learner, you are inspired by music which has depth (azhuththam)--no wonder, the 'etched' bits of your learning are from such masters...

gs · Post by gs » 10 Jan 2007, 11:54

Reading throâ€™ this thread, one gets a feeling CM is in its death bed and may be we should be thankful that Kunnakudi is around to bring it back to life!!

Is it anywhere near reality?

In early eighties Illustrated Weekly (remember those unstapled wide spreads?) published an interview with Lalgudi. He opined that CM has to adapt to modern times and evolve vigourously. Else, CM will extinguish, like dinosaurs. I had my differences then and expressed it in Kanaiyazi magazine. Looks like, people who are blessed with an ear for CM feel comfortable thinking that CM is in mortal peril. Albert Camus said man always has a strong desire to destroy what he loves but does not own, even though he knows he wants to love it more!

Before we plug in oxygen mask on CMâ€™s nose we need to answer these questions, statistically.

1) Have the number of concerts per annum today, dwindled in a place like Trichy or Cochin compared to 1997 or 1987 or 1977?
2) What is the composition of crowd in a traditional base of CM like Shanmugananda Hall or Music Academy? Has the percentage of people below forty (who have a family to bring up and are in a position to influence the next generation) come down compared to 1997 or 1987 or 1977?
3) Barometer of any niche field is the survival of its second line or tertiary line. Their main source of living is tuition and proverbial half coconut concerts. Are these people are worse off compared to 1997 or 1987 or 1977?

If the answers to the above questions are in the negative, we need not worry about CMâ€™s longevity. Integration with social fabric is a worry. Here again we have to face a harsh reality. The community that propagates CM is much less integrated with the society at large. This resulted in polarization. This is what we need to address. And other issues with respect to concert performance such as dwindling vishranthi.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jan 2007, 15:19

gs,
Positive, valid points--integration, keeping the visrAnthi aspect intact, and may I add, the schools devoting at least one hour per week for 'music listening'--listening to just rAgAs, so that religion doesn't come into it. For this, they don't have to employ teachers (may not help at all, if the teachers are not up to par). Yes! let the kids just listen to beautifully sung or played rAgAs with the audio equipment that schools have, any way. If this works, who knows, the children may inspire their parents to listen to CM!

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 10 Jan 2007, 15:47

A lovely quote, and so relevant to this thread:

While we are discussing the period of festival concerts and the common man's response to classical music, an anecdote narrated by a music critic from Tiruvananthapuram about his boyhood days is worth quoting here. In his village in the outskirts of Tiruvananthapuram there was a certain porter by name Peerukannu. A sort of loner by nature and quite well-built for his job, Karnataka music was for Peerukannu an all-consuming passion. He would sing the songs of K.B. Sundarammal in total self-abandon. He was so bereaved when he heard about the death of Madurai Mani Iyer that he could not eat for days together. Peerukannu may not be an exception. But there is no denying the fact that he liked Karnataka music and that he did so genuinely. What is to be noted is that he understood classical music without partaking of the ideological implications of classicism understood as a cultural absolute. Would Peerukannu have bothered to read a 'feature-writing' on a Mani Iyer concert he had himself heard the other day? He would not have cared less.

(highlighting is mine)

citation: http://www.keralahistory.ac.in/socialhistoryofmusic.htm
(this is a great article overall, even though the main thrust is on music in kerala)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jan 2007, 16:02

Are you kidding? In some households the children may go out to play cricket, but the adults can't brook it without turning the telly on to watch their favorite serials...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jan 2007, 20:27

On a serious note, I want to repeat what I said on another thread: take CM to children--to the schools. Let them have a 'Listen to Music' hour once a week. Just listening to rAgAas, fine instrumental and vocal rAgAs. That way, the religious and language factors won't enter the picture. No extra teachers--just the audio equipment which is avaialble in the school, anyway. Music can be played during lunch hour or during art classes (if they have them). This way, children can get familiar with CM, like it, and even inspire their parents to get interested! I hear instrumental CM in one of the supermarkets now! A good sign...

manakkalsriram · Post by **manakkalsriram** » 10 Jan 2007, 21:20

I came to read vijay's comments that yougsters are trying out innovative ideas. I came to remember . Two months back There was a ragam thanam pallavi competition conducted by Shanthi fine arts in Shastri hall. I was invited to take part in the mridangam to play for them(as an experienced artist to boost them). Boys and girls around the age of mere twenty. Around ten of them took part. They were all of different states like andhra, karnataka, etc. Really I was amazed at that day those youngsters handled the raga and pallavi like a king, even where senior musicians would have found it difficult. Such intricate pallavis. True they would have rehearsed it for a long time. Even then to sing in the stage with such a confident attitude was something unique. I did not know the pallavi they were going to sing beforehand. Only at that fraction of the moment I had to decide and play the kaalam also. I took it up as a challenge to play for the various pallavis on the spot as it was some thing unique and a different role I had to do and I was relieved when it came out successfully. Imagine the calibre of the Judges, Smt. vedavalli, TRS and madurai Srinivasan. What I want to emphasis here that there is a bank of unkown bunch of talented youngsters where even senior artists would have thought twice before taking such pallavis. Vidushi vedavalli tried to test a few by asking them to sing the swaras and end in different places, which also they handled quite well.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jan 2007, 22:14

I am proud of all of them! Sounds just like the kids who come from everywhere to the Cleveland TyAgarAjA festival. Now, we need rasikas for them--that's why CM needs to 'find addmission' into schools. rAgAs have no boundaries. They are universal.Those who fight over languages and religions may not object to introducing them to children at school...

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 10 Jan 2007, 22:46

arasi wrote:INow, we need rasikas for them--that's why CM needs to 'find addmission' into schools. rAgAs have no boundaries. They are universal.Those who fight over languages and religions may not object to introducing them to children at school...

I remember mentioning -a oneliner- about CM in schools elsewhere a while ago. You are right. However I would have good teachers too (before they go extinct) to teach the kids as an optional subject where rAgas and tAlas could be taught as basic lessons. Kids can choose between vocal, instrumental, percussion. In the US the middle school kids have an option of choosing between choir, orchestra, band and other electives and they practice one hour, 5 days a week! -with extra classes on Saturday if they wish-
Wow I wish I had that!!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jan 2007, 22:46

I ran into somone the other day, and she related this story. Growing up in Chennai, a christian child, she often saw a pATTU vAdyAr (music teacher) who went past her house, always humming a tune. She must have been five, and one day, she walked into the house with the music master and declared that she wanted to learn music from him! At first, her mother was astonished, and then said, 'why not?'. So, she learnt music from him, sitting down in a room on the floor where the piano was. At some point, she prefered playing with her friends to learning music in the evenings--and the lessons stopped. It happened forty odd years ago, but she sang 'vara vINA mrudu pANI' to me sweetly as she ended the story!
All the more the reason why CM appreciation should start at school. We adults have boundaries in our minds. It's not so with children. A child and good music--what an ideal combination!
Another young christian woman I know says, she always got a piece of Thirupathi laDDU from her neighbors and she loves the taste of it. I wonder what Jesudas liked best from his guru's kitchen!
Goes to prove, boundaries exist in our minds. In this vast world of ours--people are people, our fellow human beings.What is better than music to achieve harmony? Where better to start than at school?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 10 Jan 2007, 22:55

Arasi, Now that you mentioned- A mother (christian from chennai) brought her daughter 6y to my home one day and asked me to teach her vocal as much as I knew. I agreed, and next day she came with a plate with friuts, flowers and some coins. I was astonished! The girl came in silk pAvAdai. I taught her in very informal way. She sang gajAnanayutham so beautifully for Mother's day- and how proud I felt!!
I hope she still is continuing, as I moved out.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 11 Jan 2007, 04:03

Future of Carnatic music "sound and safe":
http://www.hindu.com/2006/05/08/stories ... 850200.htm

I especially liked this quip:

"Even to be a rasika, one has to be blessed by divine grace,"

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 11 Jan 2007, 05:16

Those who fight over languages and religions may not object to introducing them to children at school

Bade Ghulam Ali Khan , moaned , after the partition...

If only each and every Family in India had one person trained in Indian Classical Music, India would not have been partitioned.
And then went on to change his country of domicile to India.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 11 Jan 2007, 10:52

Sriram, it is heartening to hear that youngsters are excelling in a field like Pallavi which was on the verge of extinction not too long back! But how do we ensure that these youngsters find their way to the big stages in the metros...

Kulkarniji, that was a fine (and very true) sentiment from Bade Ghulam Ali...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Jan 2007, 15:35

I attended a concert last year by some of the children from Ramji's Issai Mazhalai group. It was quite by chance: I just happened to be near a hall and went in to see what was on.

I was so struck by the absolutely professional, polished, yet youthfully-fresh performance. And also by the completeness of the concert. Nothing was left out!

Somehow I haven't yet managed to see any of his yojngsters again, but I must, I really must...

manakkalsriram · Post by **manakkalsriram** » 13 Jan 2007, 20:43

Vijay, hope transformation takes place. Even in Sabhas having a lot of members, the attendance is very thin except for a few performances which can be easily counted. The attitude of rasikas also should change. More importance should be given to "HOW THE SINGER SINGS' than for 'WHO THE SINGER IS'. Then only, it is possible for the hard work of these youngsters to be recognised.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Jan 2007, 22:01

manakkal,
Well said.
How the singer sings: merit
Who the singer is: popularity
We are talking about CM here. Do we want merit or glamor? Flash of imagination or flash of colors, diamonds and gold? What do you think were thyAgarAjA's thoughts at ThiruvaiyAru?

'nidhi tsAla sukhamA, rAmu nI sannidhi sEva..."

gs · Post by gs » 14 Jan 2007, 13:50

arasi/manakkal,

I wish life were that simple. For the great majority out there CM is a healthy diversion. They have a complex life to cope with. The time available for CM for them is extremely limited. One can understand if they make safe choices with their time.

I don't see anything wrong with flash of colours, diamonds and gold, either. If a normal run of the mill Grand Master is to have a decent living, the likes of Viswanathan Anand has to be filthy rich. Niche field economics can not operate in any other form, unfortunately.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 14 Jan 2007, 20:18

(arasi - this is not directed at you even though it may come off that way! sorry!)

why do we think tyAgarAja sang "nidhi tsAla sukhamA, rAmu nI sannidhi sEva" such it applies mostly (if not only) to the context of carnatic music)? I have seen it (and the pallavi of cakkani) quoted most often (if not always) to point out flaws in artists and other rasikas/fans. Doesnt all of this apply *equally* to everyone in every face of life? So I always think if in our daily lives as rasikas, most of us are still bound to seeking material comforts, why point the finger at others?

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 14 Jan 2007, 20:24

arunk wrote:why do we think tyAgarAja sang "nidhi tsAla sukhamA, rAmu nI sannidhi sEva"

rAmuni sannidhi sEva (not rAmu nI). The song is directed at the mind (manasA), not rAma.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 14 Jan 2007, 20:51

drs,

Yes - sorry i copied and pasted from arasi's post and i didnt realize this.

(of course I was asking a rhetorical question - but this sort of negates the point i was trying to make

)

Arun

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 14 Jan 2007, 22:23

DRS,
Thanks for pointing it out.

arunk,
Let me put it this way. In earlier days, vidushis dressed well. They wore silk saris and diamond studs. Vidwans wore their kaDukkans (ear ornaments) and occasionally rings (not tons of gold). It is the excesses that I am thinking of in some of the modern performers. They look as though they are models for jewelry stores. The saris they wear today were worn only by brides then! The old timers certainly were not a dowdy lot--but their attire was not a distraction. It was dancers who wore glamorous costumes for their performances...

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 14 Jan 2007, 22:45

arasi,

if they wore diamond studs etc. wouldnt they be automatically disqualified as per tyAgarAja's sentiments here? IMHO, you cannot use an absolute to determine something subjective as in our threshold for what is acceptable vs what is excessive.

Besides my (rhetorical) question stands. How many of us in our daily lifes outside of CM, live life without pursuing material comforts? Why quote a moral absolute when passing judgement on someone else (be that our neighbour, next rasika or an artist), i.e. by a standard which most of us will fail to meet that absolute? Doesnt that have a streak of hypocrysy? If you have to quote it to indict someone, then why not apply it to ourselves (not subjectively) and see where we stand?

Again, this is not directed at you. It is directed at all of us, including me

. Although i find it a bit funny that I have raised this a couple of times, and people have happily ignored this call for self-introspection

. IMO, All of us are excellent judges of morality when it comes to judging others

;)

Arun

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 14 Jan 2007, 23:43

arunk,
Of course, I know you are not targeting me in particular, but all those--including you

who quote freely but seldom practise what they quote. Point taken. Though I don't belong to a saintly order which practises asceticism, I do believe in what I say and do shun excesses. Now, don't call me self-riotous!:)

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 14 Jan 2007, 23:51

The beauty of a sari, or the amount of jewellery is something that should not distract for more than a few minutes.

I don't find it any more relevant than the arm-waving singer. It annoys me, but, as I commented in another thread, if I really want to listen to that artist, then I have to close my eyes, literally or metaphorically.

It is regrettable that appearance has come to be so important --- and maybe some of the performers regret it deeply, as they have to pay for all this stuff, and spend their time draping and adjusting.

Would they be better performers if they came to the stage in plain hand-loom cloth? Does the silk make them any worse performers?

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 15 Jan 2007, 00:10

Arun, I generally agree with your point about dress being an immaterial issue...but the people at the Araadhana are there to commemorate the Saint's music as well as his life - and it was one marked by extreme simplicity. As a homage to him, I would think it appropriate to dress suitably - at least on that one day, although I do admit that what is "suitable" is very subjective...

Incidentally MMI used to avoid singing Nidhi Tsala Sukhama since he felt he did not fully live up to the Saint's lofty ideal...I was very touched when I read that...

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 15 Jan 2007, 00:14

arasi

. I wont belabour the point any further

vijay - my point was not about dress in particular. Arasi got it right in the first sentence of her post.

Arun

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 15 Jan 2007, 00:48

Interesting points. I have always wondered why CM artistes, who are supposed to be spiritually at a higher plane, still get enamored by material attractions. Perhaps they still have a long way to go...

An 'ecological' take on this topic is one of enlightened relationship to 'prithvi'. Perhaps people are not aware of the harm caused to 'bhumi devi' by their lifestyles, e.g. gold extraction requires cyanide 'leeching' thus poisoning our rivers, silk farming causes great ecological imbalances, etc. I would love to see an artiste wearing khadar or simple cotton dress when they perform. But then, our culture has created this attraction for glittery objects. And the show goes on...

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 15 Jan 2007, 01:08

jayaram wrote:I have always wondered why CM artistes, who are supposed to be spiritually at a higher plane, still get enamored by material attractions. Perhaps they still have a long way to go...

jayaram - Who said they are supposed to be on a spiritually higher plane? Just because they sing spiritually uplifting songs? I dont think so at all. All mortals are "supposed to be" on the same plane. No exceptions. Also, unless we are talking about some who claims to be on a higher plane, how can we say "perhaps they still have a long way to go"? If we understand what the songs mean enough to admonish someones else's lack of spiritual progress, we better practise what we preach - else doesnt it become shallow and hypocritical?

Actually, from what little I understand about spirituality, the more spiritually progressed you are, the less you would "talk ill" of someone else's lack of spirituality. You would instead feel more real compassion - real as in compassion without pity

.

Now I am not saying no one should point out problems if they see etc., i just am not a big fan of rasikas quoting spiritually elevating lyrics to find faults with others, when most of us will fail miserably against the same.

(oops I guess i just belaboured the point

!)

Arun

mridu · Post by **mridu** » 15 Jan 2007, 01:49

http://www.sudharagunathan.com/photogal_view.asp?PGID=3
Just cant believe this!

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 15 Jan 2007, 01:57

You are right, in one manner of speaking we are all on the same level - as the Zen buddhist would say, we are all buddhas. However, it's the awareness that makes the difference. And good music helps increase this awareness. (I must admit, at least that's the theory.

Or do you not agree with the 'elevation' of the Tyagarajas, Dikshitars, Purandara Dasas, etc. of the music world to Saint status (just as Andal, Ramana Maharshi, and others)?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 15 Jan 2007, 02:24

One the other hand, it is a performing art form, so if some one wants to be visually attractive in addition (and not instead of) to delivering classy music, I for one will not complain. I for one love colors, and if someone can carry it off, then why not? If the mAmIs who attend the concert put on their best, then why not the singer on the dais who is the cynosure of all eyes. Not for a bit am I suggesting that an attractive attire should compensate for shoddy singing...I just wonder what is wrong if it is an embellishment.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 15 Jan 2007, 02:24

The saints and the saint-composers have of course reached the higher(est) plane. But the goal for everyone (including the saints before their enlightenment) is the same. There is no reason to mandate (or presume) that someone singing the compositions should be on a higher spiritual plane than the listener (i.e. rasikas). I cringe at the use of the messages of the spiritual masters to show others in bad light. I feel that it pretty much misses the whole point of spirituality and spiritual growth.

Arun