Vidwan Chi. Ravikiran’s workshop on music at Hyderabad

[msakella]

As per the pamphlet Vidwan Chi. Ravikiran has to hold a workshop on music at Saptaparni, Hyderabad on 26-11-2017, Sunday but he managed with a Lecture-demonstration at his convenience. I have attended it to enjoy the workshop (like mine at Vidwan Sri Vidyarthi’s residence some time back at Chennai with the participation of 13 of his students and his daughter Chi. Shreeranjani) but became disappointed when it turned out to be only a Lecture-demonstration.

While demonstrating the exquisite Gamakas of music, he demonstrated the Kampita of the Antara-gandhara of Kalyani and called it ‘Swasthana-kampita’ as if this is the only variety of Kampita but did not demonstrate the other Kampitas. When I raised a question about the differentiation of the two independent names, Kampita & Gamaka furnished even by the author of the Shloka of 15 Gamakas himself he answered that Gamaka is part of Kampita only which is not correct.

Later, in his brief demonstration of exciting rhythmical patterns he directly started with the high-level of seamless Korvais which are accessible to experts only but not to the poor students of low level.

Thus, he again proved himself a performer but not a reliable teacher furnishing a logical and step-wise plan of action which could easily be understood and followed by the students independently with the minimum participation of the teacher.

Very sadly, even almost all the videos pertaining to the items of Manodharma Sangeeta of various Vidwans in ‘youtube’ do not furnish any logical and step-wise plan of action to the students to easily understand and follow independently with the minimum participation of the teacher. Most unfortunately, all these conservative, egoistic and selfish musicians would neither furnish a logical and step-wise plan themselves nor accept any other logical and step-wise plan of others to help the poor aspirants and their parents but they all dump the symbolised Gamakas of Subbarama Dikshitar or the Talaprastara or the modern ‘time-bound and result-oriented-methods’ of learning our music to help the poor aspirants and their parents. amsharma

[sankark]

Leaving the technical stuff out, which is so far above my head, is this topic on N Ravikiran (my guess) or G Ravikiran?

[msakella]

I am acquainted with Chi. Chitraveena Ravikiran only. amsharma

[chitravina ravikiran]

The author of this thread was given every opportunity to make his points or clarify mine during the presentation as I made it interactive from the word go, given the number of advanced/performing level students and leading senior stalwarts of AP/Telangana in the audience. Audio/video recordings will show that he was heartily participating and mostly agreeing with most things I said during the sessions. Had he voiced these thoughts or criticisms there rather than taken to the pen here, they could easily have been clarified right there, which may have benefitted the participants more, especially since most of this post is quite off the radar...

but he managed with a Lecture-demonstration at his convenience.

It was as per discussions with the organisers.

Kampita of the Antara-gandhara of Kalyani and called it ‘Swasthana-kampita’ as if this is the only variety of Kampita but did not demonstrate the other Kampitas.

The context was examples of swasthana kampita. Not various types of "ga" in Kalyani. Other types of kampita were clearly illustrated in ragas like Todi, Varali, Saveri etc.

differentiation of the two independent names, Kampita & Gamaka furnished even by the author of the Shloka of 15 Gamakas himself he answered that Gamaka is part of Kampita

Recordings will reveal that I said Kampita is one of the types of gamakas, not the other way around as confused by the poster. The author of 15 gamakas - Sarangadeva - has clearly mentioned kampita as one of the gamakas, exactly as I cited. However, this artist argued that he found it easier to teach students something entirely different even if it didn't tally with Sarangadeva and others. I refrained from taking this further with him then, given his seniority in age.

exciting rhythmical patterns he directly started with the high-level of seamless Korvais which are accessible to experts only but not to the poor students of low level.

The type of questions the students and vidwans were asking in this interactive session were eloquent indicators of their level. And the way most of them spoke to me after the session showed that they had grasped the concept of Seamless korvais and Smart Finishes and were enthused by it. Please check www.acharyanet.com for simpler rhythmic exercises I have given for students several years ago.

not a reliable teacher furnishing a logical and step-wise plan of action

My guru, Acharya Ratnakara Chitravina Narasimhan's systematic methods have proved capable of making even 5 year olds execute incredibly intricate rhythmic feats without sacrificing all round development or aesthetics in full-fledged concerts with top accompanists. I have seen fantastic methods developed by many other greats in the field over the years. The track records of my disciples' ability in laya (and other aspects) can speak for themselves...

It is in poor taste to lash out at other people's methods - more so without a universally acclaimed track record that parallels or out-does the best in the field. The more one realises the profundity of statements like Tyagaraja's endarO mahAnubhAvulu or Oottukkadu Venkata Kavi's bhajanamrta paramAnanda bhAgavata santa charaNa rENu nirantaram vahAmyaham , the less one may feel the burden of carrying the entire world on one's shoulders and the faster one may evolve towards positive peace...

[kvchellappa]

Excellent and bhavyamaana reply.

[ram1999]

Lets keep the theory aside which goes above most of our heads and we see only stars and enjoy the music

[msakella]

Demonstrating ‘Swasthana-kampita’ (which I have named it as ‘Sveeya-swaragathasthana-kampita’ in my book) itself speaks volumes of his expertise in the subject and I felt extremely happy of this. But, later, even without telling their respective names (they are also suitably named in my book) he sang other Ragas and their Kampita-notes but not in a categorical manner to help the student. Here I differ with him as a teacher.

In respect of Kampitas & Gamakas, while the radius of Kampita is limited only to the adjacent note of either upper or lower, the radius of Gamaka is far above two notes in any case and as a responsible teacher I made the difference between them to make the student easily understand and follow it easily. In fact, if Kampita is a part of Gamaka why this has not been included in the list of 15 Gamakas but given an independent identity along with Gamaka, “swarasya kampo gamakah’. This itself obviously indicates the teachers to make a categorical difference to help the aspirants.

Always the teacher’s role is equal with the mother who is more responsible than a performer and having worked for more than 35 years as a regular teacher in many Govt. Music Institutions and also as a full-time Violin-accompanist as a performer I am acquainted with both the roles of duties and responsibilities.

While demonstrating to the student, a teacher must give them all the step-wise varieties of mathematical forms. In general, I do so in such cases. But, when he directly took the seamless Korvais, I thought that he did so due to his performer’s perspective but not in teacher’s perspective and could not disturb him.

Even while demonstrating the oscillations of notes the person having the performer’s perspective, naturally, demonstrates the Ragas in relation with notes while the person with the teacher’s perspective demonstrates the notes in relation with Ragas. That is the small difference making all the difference with performers and teachers. Here, this has been done with the performer’s perspective only. A reliable teacher (who doesn’t sing for more than one minute in any of music classes) can only find the difference but not at all a performer.

In fact, this is not in no way to belittle the expertise of Chi. Ravikiran, the would be Sangeeta Kalanidhi, but to enhance his abilities as a reliable teacher. amsharma

[msakella]

In comparison, while the performer’s perspective always is filled with selfish and parasitical attitude the teacher’s attitude always is very noble and filled with social service. The person with the performer’s perspective can never fathom the depth of the teacher’s perspective.

The person learning the balancing of cycling will certainly get it basing upon his own intuition only when the teacher releases the cycle from his hold but pretends to be holding. My extensive experiments held in 2001 upon the modern methods in learning our music also proved the same that a true teacher in music should not sing himself for more than 0.1% but, properly equipping the aspirant with the needed material, must initiate him in working hard for more than 99.9% and learn things on his own. Since then I have never been used to sing myself but for less than 0.1% in exceptional cases.

In general, all our music-teachers have always been used mostly to sing themselves and made the aspirants also follow them in singing. Unfortunately, none of them is able to observe that, in this process, all the instinctive abilities of the aspirants are wantonly obstructed to utilise but the imitative ability. By all this, the poor aspirant has illogically been made perennially dependent upon the whims and fancies of the teacher which is helping to inordinately elongate the process of learning for many years. Adding fuel to the fire the poor aspirant is also insisted not to write anything in this process.

Later, when I have removed all the illogicalities of the old suicidal system of teaching (not learning) and, properly equipping him with all the needed material like pdf files of the items with symbolised notation, audio & video files, initiated to do things properly utilising his instinctive abilities the process is amazingly quickened enabling him sing even brief Ragalapana and creative Swarakalapna along with intricate mathematical Swarakalpana hardly within a year.

Since then I have very vigorously been searching to find a true and honest music-teacher initiating the kids like me in learning our Karnataka music. In the light of the above, now, I request Chi. Ravikiran to kindly give me the details of some ‘greats’ in teaching our music from the list of his ‘greats’ to enable me contact, discuss and clear-off some of my own doubts in this regard. amsharma

[kvchellappa]

Socrates: Education is the kindling of a flame, not the filling of a vessel.

[sureshvv]

In the light of the above, now, I request Chi. Ravikiran to kindly give me the details of some ‘greats’ in teaching our music from the list of his ‘greats’ to enable me contact, discuss and clear-off some of my own doubts in this regard. amsharma

You may have better luck if you contact him directly on this. That will seem more sincere and less of showboating.

[Sivaramakrishnan]

Lets keep the theory aside which goes above most of our heads and we see only stars and enjoy the music

There is no harm in attempting to understand, if not master the theory of music, especially through a meaningful forum like ours. (I'm not a master, though)!

[kvchellappa]

We understand a few basics from the writings of Ravikiran though hazily by me.

[Sachi_R]

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=29201&sid=f61ce586 ... 168928d860

[asangeetha]

Acharyanet.com carries a series of lessons on manodharma taught comprehensively by Shri Chitravina N Ravikiran on all aspects like raga alapana, neraval, kalpana swara and tanam. Not only have the fundamental principles been outlined clearly from beginning to end, but numerous examples have been given in various ragas. Students find these lessons extremely informative and useful in their music training. Acharyanet is passionate about helping students access great knowledge from such gurus as are the gurus in passing on all that they know to the next generation.

Acharyanet will be making some of these lessons available online in the coming month for the benefit of all. Look forward to sharing these here as well!

[msakella]

As usual, as the content of the 'acharya.net' is brought out by the people of performer's perspective alone it consists of old 'poison' (not wine) only but in a new bottle. While the attitude of the performer is merely parasitical the teacher's is very noble and very deep in making the aspirant knowledgeable. While the person with the performer's perspective performs/sings himself much the person with the teacher's perspective makes the aspirant sings much. This is the small difference making all the difference.

Here, unfortunately, having the performer's perspective, none of them is aware that he is unable to help the poor aspirant honestly and logically.

By learning the classical music in the modern, logical and qualitative 'Akella's method' our kids, with the barest minimum dependency upon the teacher, are able to independently work hard for more than 95% (teacher's role is less than 5% only) basing upon their own instinctive abilities, learn things on their own and are becoming able to sing even creative Swarakalpana along with the intricate mathematical Swarakalpana and brief Ragalapana even before learning the first Kriti within the span of only one year. The music-teachers trained by me in this method only can do in this manner and we treat them 'great' among all the teachers. In general, honest and efficient teachers only follow this method and all others hesitate to follow as they have to incur heavy financial loss by following this quickened method of learning music.

Having more of performer's perspective and also as it is not that easy to find even a single such honest and efficient teacher even from the list of his 'greats' Chi. Ravikiran could not respond to my request even after the lapse of 15 days. We shall hope for the better. amsharma