Why muslims don't take up CM ? !

[jodha]

This has been puzzling me for many years more so when I listen to any HM concert by any khan.They are blessed with such a voice and musical wisdom , invariably most of the gharanas point to some khan as its pioneer.
In CM as far as I know except Sheik Chinnamoulana and his grandsons I can't count upwards.
Should not TMK do some thing to bring in muslim youths into learning of CM and start a new chapter ? Would that not be exposing our music to the minorities actually which is his wish.that will be secular also.
Writing varnams and kritis for them if needed is not at all a tough job if at all required !
If not TMK some one may take some initiative into doing this.Even in the neighboring A.P where both the styles co-exist I am unaware of any practitioner of CM.same with Karnataka too.Was there any earlier attempts there ?

[ramamatya]

What to say? Just another controversial topic, the way I see it. Year aarambattuleyeva !

[shankarank]

As noted in Srauta smArta itihAsa , King Ashoka destroyed gurukula and anything became a family business afterwards. After Turkic and Mughal rulers came in that changed likely and Gharana system where any aspirant can seek into it came into force. I am thinking even the Court music as real art music performance may be their contribution.

Vijayanagar founders (Hakka and Bukka) were generals for Deccan Sultanates - who may have been Islamic converts , that were brought back. The same court music might have continued into their vassals courts as well!

Nagasvaram was unknown prior to Vijaya nagar rulers - as per an article in Dr N Ramanathan's website.

Currently we have somebody called Zakir Hussain who is doing discourses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_p7KAWNg2M

So that is a beginning. But then do they have to become like us??

Well not really - they have to just the imbibe the idea that this is an open architecture where some compatibility issues may be thrown up. This is not a restriction from anywhere here, but it is a problem in their tenets - if tenets are an issue that is - that they have to resolve!

But really if this about just the techniques of CM, every film music has borrowed it , including kampita gamaka. A R Rahman included. Again is his faith relevant here ?? You tell!

Otherwise why would we even ask the question? Is every other community ID'd as Hindu, a problem or not a problem in pursuing the music?

Now the key question is there is this idea that "position of syllables is unique in CM" and we debated all along if that by itself is music to begin with!!

Have a you heard such a song/syllable flow that is properly CM even in old tamizh movies? Unless it was done deliberately??

If it is just kampita gamaka, and rAgas they have gone places already. Only Mridangam (metaphorically) is left out!! We have to first understand that when we say CM!!

Also there was this sufism in vogue and I cannot tell if all HM musicians of Islamic back ground would fall under that.

[sureshvv]

Many have a problem with saying "Vande Mataram". So it may be a long time before they take up Carnatic Music.

[Sachi_R]

I feel in Hindustani music, the court patronage combined with the incentives for conversion made many Hindustani musical exponents convert to Islam.
The biggest example is Tansen.
There was a lecdem by Uday Bhwalkar a couple of years ago in the Season wherein he stated that the ध्रुपद exponents Dagar were the truest of Hindus in spirit.

Perhaps some big name like TMK may embrace Islam (Rahman!) and that may increase the tribe of Muslim CM exponents.

I know there are many extremely knowledgeable Muslim scholars in Hindu scriptures among Kannada as well as other South Indian languages.

[kvjayan]

I feel in Hindustani music, the court patronage combined with the incentives for conversion made many Hindustani musical exponents convert to Islam.
The biggest example is Tansen.
There was a lecdem by Uday Bhwalkar a couple of years ago in the Season wherein he stated that the ध्रुपद exponents Dagar were the truest of Hindus in spirit.

Perhaps some big name like TMK may embrace Islam (Rahman!) and that may increase the tribe of Muslim CM exponents.

I know there are many extremely knowledgeable Muslim scholars in Hindu scriptures among Kannada as well as other South Indian languages.

A few decades, there was one Ulundurpettai Majeed, popular for his Murugan songs in Tamil, though not exactly a concert vidwan. Perhaps, another Akbar may descend on the south, to "deliver" CM from its "oppressive" communal (Brahminical) heritage.

[jodha]

Brahmins are not oppressing any one.Rather sharing of knowlege remains the main forte of brahmin community.
HMB had a great disciple in Sankarasivam and SSI had TMT etc.So far I haven't heard any incident either then or now where any meritorious student was turned away for reasons of caste or religion.

[sureshvv]

Chembai & Jesudas

[satyabalu]

Sheik Chinna Moulana

[varsha]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/w4cwjr04w ... anyasi.mp3
kAdar bAtcha

[varsha]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c7DXxcSu5s
B Hussain Saheb

[varsha]

http://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/e ... 518789.cms
Fayaz Khan

[varsha]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl4k7JzkY1o

[varsha]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjP_d-Qsu7k
Khan Brothers - Nara Janma Bandaga

[shankarank]

Thanks varsha. It only shows a time when identities were not that important. People viewed this culturally.

ध्रुपद exponents Dagar were the truest of Hindus in spirit.

Swami Dayananda Sarasvati had to go the extent of saying, he considers anyone a Hindu as long as they say they are not!

It is being claimed that Manonmaniam Sundaram Pillai told Swami Vivekananda that "we saivaites" are not Hindus. Some Dravidian politicians are running around telling people that.

I don't know if this label really matters now!

[ram1999]

Many have a problem with saying "Vande Mataram". So it may be a long time before they take up Carnatic Music.

[harimau]

It is being claimed that Manonmaniam Sundaram Pillai told Swami Vivekananda that "we saivaites" are not Hindus.

Phew! That explains why Pappu claimed his is a family of Shiv-Bhakts!

So, Sonia, Priyanka, Robert Vadera and Rahul are Shiv-Bhakts and simultaneously non-Hindus!

[ram1999]

Thanks varsha. It only shows a time when identities were not that important. People viewed this culturally.

ध्रुपद exponents Dagar were the truest of Hindus in spirit.

Swami Dayananda Sarasvati had to go the extent of saying, he considers anyone a Hindu as long as they say they are not!

It is being claimed that Manonmaniam Sundaram Pillai told Swami Vivekananda that "we saivaites" are not Hindus. Some Dravidian politicians are running around telling people that.

I don't know if this label really matters now!

The leader of one of the dravidian parties (karuna) now religiously conducts ganapathy homam prior to elections with high hopes

[Sachi_R]

Guys, don't stray away out of the galaxy. Preferably stay within the solar system. By introducing the various extraneous topics all equally interesting and totally distracting, we simply create a Gordian knot out of every thread

I was able to get for you that interview of Sri Uday Bhawalkar:
https://youtu.be/N96gZGTBDqY?t=4140

Please cue to 1 hour 9 min.
Also listen to the music. It is out of this galaxy.

[kvchellappa]

"It is out of this galaxy" violates the golden rule "don't stray away out of the galaxy".

[Sivaramakrishnan]

1 There is a singer in Kerala who , I think, is working at the Swati Tirunal music college, Tvm.

2 Kalamandalam Hyder Ali was a celebrated Kathakali padam singer.