RAGAMS IN MS RECORD 'YAAMARINTHA mozhikaLile

[RSR]

May I get help in identifying the ragams in M.S.Subbulakshmi classic ( 78 RPM--1946) of Subramanya Barathy
'yaamarintha mozhikaLile' ? Does it begin with shanmugapriya? subsequent stanzas ragams?

https://youtu.be/0NvkU_HzndM

[Sachi_R]

Sir
Shanmukhapriya
Mohana
Kapi
The last clip is too short to decide between Senjurutti and Kambhoji

[RSR]

@2-> Sachi Sir-> Thank you. May I have your confirmation?
a) yAmarintha ...shanmugapriya
b) yamarintha pulavarile-> Do you mean that it is mohanam?
c) oomaiyaraay -> ? is this kapi? doubtful.
4) ksemamura vendumenil-> could be chenchurutti... The other side of the plate has 'chenthamizh naadenum' in chenchurutti

[Sachi_R]

The raga names are settled. Go with Senjurutti

[RSR]

@4-> I have reservations about 'oomaiyaraay...' being Kapi.
May I request you to try to find the ragams for DKP songs ? Will be very valuable to me.
They are all vintage records from 1947 period.
All ragam experts are requested to give their input.

[RSR]

@4-> You mean Shanmugapriya, Mohanam and Chenchurutti? No kapi? If so, it is settled.

[Ranganayaki]

@4-> You mean Shanmugapriya, Mohanam and Chenchurutti? No kapi? If so, it is settled.

No, wrong, there is kaapi.. the last raga sounded like kambhoji to me, senchurutti never came to mind till I read RSachi' post.

[CRama]

It is Shanmugapriya, Mohanam, Kapi and the last line only sounded like Kambodi (Kshemamura venumenil teruvellam tamizh muzhakkam)

[RSR]

I may be wrong but after 'kshemaura vendumenil'.....the reverse side of the plate has 'chenthamizh naadenum pothinile' ..I believe it is chenchurutti and I used to wonder how the last stanza of yamarintha ..fits so perfectly with chenthamizh nadenum. ..My take is shanmugapriya, mohanam, chenchurutti. No kapi there. ( my reference for kapi are a) poonkuyil koovum solaiyil by DKP b) Vaishavajanatho by MS c) intha sowkyamu by Mani Iyer
d) baaratha desamathin in ramarajyam e) murali mohana by MS in Meera f) last stanza of vadavaraiyai by MS . not feeling the trace of kapi here. Wrong?
chenthamizhnaadenum here for reference
https://youtu.be/0NTAU_jJvoY

[Ranganayaki]

The sahityam references are not clear, as she sings the same sahityam in two ragas at least once . So I prefer timestamps.

The kaapi begins at 1:50 and ends at 2:30. After Mohanam, this interlude has G2 - sadharana gandharam (not antara), which is not the appropriate ga for senchurutti or kambhoji. At 2:31, the first swara she begins with (after the kaapi interlude ends at high Sa) is G3, antara gandharam. And there it might be senchurutti or kambhoji. I still prefer to think it is K, but who knows - but it certainly ends like kambhoji in my view.

Sorry to be using stuffy swarasthana names that you don't like, but if I want to be clear and unambiguous, I would rather use them. They are just technical terms, not pompous words.

[Ranganayaki]

If I'm not wrong - please inform me if I am - senchurutti is sung mainly in the madhyama sthayee, without going too far in the Tara sthayee, or staying there as she does.

[RSR]

@10, @11-> RN->

Ranganayaki »

- senchurutti is sung mainly in the madhyama sthayee, without going too far in the Tara sthayee, or staying there as she does.

Thank you.
. As for Chenchurutti, it is favourite ragam of Smt.MS..Here are a few famous songs by her for reference ( for me) a) mannum imayamalai engaL malaiye ( barathy) b) first stanza of maalaippozhuthinile oru NaaL c) fourth stanza of deivath thamizh naattinile veNNilaave ..'KAVIYARASN BAARTHIYIN ', ( kalki on barathy). d) enathu uLLame in Tamil Meera e) kaliyugadali hari naama (MS) f) vaasudeva kamalaasana (MS).(11 languages record) g) mudiyondri moovukangalum -first stanza (music by SVVENKATARAMAN( Based on these samples, I think, chenthamizhnaadenum is chenchurutti and the third (last) stanza of yaamarintha ( oomaiyaraay...) also is of that ragam. May be wrong.
i am sure that you have heard all the kapi songs that I have mentioned. My habit is to identify ragams on the basis of some accepted reference songs. As such, I do not find kapi anywhere there.
What you have mentioned about sthayee also is quite the right approach.
When people say, Mohanam, a few nice songs come to my mind. a) nannu paalimpa b) giridhragopalaa( high pitch) c) naaraayna dhivyanaamam ( low range) d) raaraa raajeeva lochana ( very nice composition..a correct blend).e) vetri ettu thikkum etta .. Thus on second thoughts, I find it difficult to fit 'yaamarintha pulavarile 'stanza with mohanam. It is high pitched and seems to be some other ragam , but it escapes me.
As an aside, I think, that for most of the songs mentioned here, the music director was S.V.Venkataraman. Mrs. Anandhi ( mother of Gowri Ramnarayan) has paid tribute to him. In my next post, I will give the links. and he uses the ragams in special manner suited to the genius of Smt.MS. That is why I am consulting ragam experts like you. i go by the ear(!) (in memory) and may be prone to be wrong . but generally, a surer way to 'feel' the ragam.

[RSR]

Links to chenchurutti classics by Smt.MS
https://youtu.be/N5ejc-H09io
mannum imayamalai
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https://youtu.be/P8eGwrkziak
enathu ullame ( tamil meera) ( music by Papanasam Sivan?)
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https://gaana.com/song/malai-pozhuthinile-1
maalaippozhuthinile
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sites.google.com/site/homage2mssubbulakshmi/home/51-vasudeva-kamalasana
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sites.google.com/site/homage2mssubbulakshmi/home/38-mudiyondri-moovulakangalum

[Ranganayaki]

@10, @11-> RN->

As such, I do not find kapi anywhere there

(...)

Thus on second thoughts, I find it difficult to fit 'yaamarintha pulavarile 'stanza with mohanam. It is high pitched and seems to be some other ragam , but it escapes me.

So if I understand you correctly, you agree about the Shanmukhapriya. You don't agree that there is Mohanam or Kaapi. I have a few simple questions, please answer:

1. How many ragas do you think there are? What ragas do you think they might be (if you would hazard a guess)?

2. Are you able to tell the exact moment of raga change?

2. What is the time elapsed at each raga change? When does raga 2 start? Is there a raga 3? When does it start? Pl respond with a list.

Also, RSR, I have a request/suggestion for readability. If you don't mind, please press enter/return twice when you want to go to a new paragraph, instead of just once. Thanks so Much!

What you have mentioned about sthayee also is quite the right approach.

I'm pretty confident about my approach(Es), but I'm surprised to see that you approve, because when I told you the very same thing about Nadanamakriya, you shot me down and told me why my approach was not very good. I bring it up only because this seems contradictory to your earlier view.

[RSR]

@14->RN-> There can be no doubt about shanmugapriya . The second stanza (brief) is Mohanam ( requires some effort on my part to fit it along with the mohanam songs mentioned by me though
'yaamarintha pulavatile kambanaippol, vaLLuvar pol, iLangovaip pol boomithanil yaarum piranthathillai '.
verum pukazhchiyillai. '
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To change from this ragam to the final one, the music may have strayed into some notes neither mohanam nor chenchurutti but very very briefly.
. The last stanza beginning with 'oomaiyaraay' is checnchurutti. .
There is no kapi or kanbothi here.
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Are you referring to 'pyaare dharsana'?
I am sorry, I am not at all convinced by anybody's guidance. I have been asking great many people in a lot of forums. but yet to get a convincing guidance
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... e-dharsana
Originally, the song tune was by SVVenkataraman in Tamil Meera ( 'unauye enathuyir .....thavaro aiya)
http://picosong.com/ziaF
. I had requested you to hear that song and identify the ragam .
A practising CM lady conveyed through her brother that it is mayamalavagowla but I need confirmation from others. I am sure that it is NOT. The Hindi version was set to music by Remoji.

It is a great composition and definitely in some single Hindusthani ragam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_-kdsQ3UEA The same song here... ( MS in a concert) . Not to my liking.
May be a slight shift in the very last line. The composer was a genius Remoji. Piano Vaidhyanathan ( a great scientist and mystic),
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... -thum-haro
In this page, there is a write up on Remoji by Gowri Ramnarayan.
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As I told you, due to age factor( 77) , my hearing faculty is not sharp. but each detail of the songs that I am referring to , are etched in my memory, sometimes even with the background score.
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May I know if you listened to the songs given by me in the links? This is not a test or exam. Just consulting and getting second opinion. .. naadhanaamakriyaa also is a favourite ragam of Smt MS and mine too.
pyaare dharsabna is not in that ragam.
Excuse me for not answering your questions point by point. I do not (I am unable to) listen to the tune in VLC and note down the exact moments. That has never been my habit. I sing the song in mind. Decades back, I had the Esraj and could check up the frets. but no longer.
Thank you.
.

[RSR]

About 'sthayee'. Some ragams are MOSTLY sung in slow tempo and normal octave like neelaambari.
Nadhanaakariya is a lovely ragam. Smt MS excelled in rendering it. ( a lovely song in Sakunthalai film, many stanzas in her glorious ragamalikas, and in jagatheesa song. and many more. When I was told that her Purandharadasa kruthi 'daasanamaadiko enne ' was in naadhanaakariya, I found it a bit difficult to accept because the range was lower. Later I could see the point.
May I compare the shanmugapriya in MS songs being discussed 'thavamum plitthathamma, and now i yaamarintha ' and NCV hit thanthai taay irunthaal with ( patnam subramanya iyer?) song by Madurai Mani Iyer? Would sound entirely different. Such things do happen. That is where individual tastes come in. Whichever one prefers. Take this discussion as sharing of impressions and not a debate. No loser or winner. I wish many rasikas pitched in. I request you to LISTEN to the songs patietiently . It will be a rewarding experience. Visit the pages for lyrics and other info.

[RSR]

marivere dhik evarayya raama ...shanmugapriya (patnam subramanya iyer) I think, rendered by Madurai Mani Iyer

[RSR]

prathyaksham bala gives transliteration of the thamizh song 'enathu uLLame' in Meera here
viewtopic.php?t=14320
about 'enathu uLLame' by Smt.MS in Tmil meera film 1945.
Though Kalki wrote the lyrics for almost all the songs, it is likely that Papanasam Sivan wrote the lyrics for this song.
Possibly, the music also was by him, for this song.
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Maragatha Vadivum in Chenchurutti ragam, as this was the first song MS had recorded for India as a 10-year-old,. This high-pitched song is said to be recorded in 1926 on Vinyl Disc by the Twin Recording Company, accompanied by her mother Madurai Shanmukhavadivu on the veena.
https://youtu.be/XjyXg6zZLqQ
https://youtu.be/e1nsXi6_vWQ -> gives nice pictures and lyrics in thamizh