Parivadini - Suguna Varadachari @ Naada Inbam - 13th Apr 2018

[MaheshS]

Parivadini - Suguna Varadachari @ Naada Inbam - 13th Apr 2018

Sangita Kala Acharya Suguna Varadachari - Vocal
Dr.R.Hemalatha - Violin
B.Ganapathiraman - Mridangam
Papanasam Sethuraman - Khanjira

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXBn0dXzbt4

Ganananandhamayam - Hayagriva Slokam
Karunai Kadale - Kalyani Adi Varnam - Tiger
Sri Vathapi - Sahana - PS
Thedi Thiriyadhe - Purvi Kalyani [NS@Nattamudan Sadhguru Padam Thedu] - Muttutandavar
Mugathai Kattiye Degam - Bhairavi [ANS] - Papavinasa Mudaliyar
Kanbedheppo En Ayyane - Bilahari - Ambujam Krishna
Engunaan Selvenayya - Dwijavanthi - Peiyaswami Thooran
Enneramum Oru Kalai - Thodi [A,NS@ponnADar pOTRum tollai nannADar Ettum tillai] - Marimutha Pillai
Thani
Navamanigalile Nalla Mani Idhuve - Yamuna Kalyani - Suguna Purushothaman
Raasami Konda Kolam - Kapi - Arunachala Kavirayar
Shobanam Shobanam - Madhyamavathi - Arunachala Kavirayar

Mami announced as it was Tamil New Year's tomorrow, an all Tamil Composition concert. Take that for a song list, 10 composers, none repeated but for the mangalam. Wow. Saginta Kala Acharya indeed! Bale bale bale, outstanding concert! I plan to re-listen to this concert at some point this weekend, will star with Navamanigalile, haunting and beautifully sung. Any connection between the two Suguna Mami's? Like guru?

Happy Tamil New Year!

[MaheshS]

Any connection between the two Suguna Mami's? Like guru?

Ahh, both were students of Musiri.

Suguna Purushothaman trained under Musiri Subramania Iyer, alongside students Mani Krishnasamy, Suguna Varadhachari, Padma Narayanasamy and Rukmini Ramani.

That is an awesome & formidable list of students under Musiri at the same time.

[HarishankarK]

This varnam is too beautiful

[shankarank]

Thedi Thiriyadhe - Purvi Kalyani [NS@Nattamudan Sadhguru Padam Thedu] - Muttutandavar

Listening to this muttutANDavar piece. For 'satguru pAdam tEdu', I was able to shift it atItam to tAlA samam on 'sat' - and also do a caturASra-khanDam -as there are 1 + 12 + 2 mAtrAs ( for offset 2 to begin 'nATTamuDan') in a 12 mAtrA per Avarta setting. Giving 1 extra mAtra for 'sat' makes it vervy.

3 fives instead of 3 fours + 2 extra kARvai in 'tEDU' and makes 'guru' stand out for the prAsa ( of uttarAnga ) - previously 'poRuL' , later 'AruL'. Not that otherwise prAsA was violated, but this is more music!

[gardabha_gana]

Thanks.. .will listen to it. RV's opener of Mugathai Kattiye @ MA 2010 still rings in my ears. There is a concert where the two Suguna's have sung together.

[shankarank]

Giving 1 extra mAtra for 'sat' makes it vervy.

Taking 2 mAtrAs pre-samam then gives the saukyam rendition onto which once can then add the above as the odukkam rendition! The former only brings forward the 'sat' to leave rest of the renditions as exactly sung by mAmi - i.e. 'guru' falling at the 2 mAtra offset and 'pAdam' and 'tEDu' aligned to the beats.

[shankarank]

And irrespective of where one happens to take off, 1 or 2 mAtrAs atItam ( pre-) samam of the Avarta, if 'pAdam' is sort of compressed in the dhIRgha(( to sound like almost how 'guru' is vocalized), and left ambiguous, and 'tEDu' is elongated once to ending samam and next to beyond that to take the next line at 2 offset, you get the bhAva sangatis.

'pAdam', 'padam' both mean the divine feet. 'padam' in tamizh means - the state or quality. Reaching guru 'padam' or his state of the conscious is a pretty long and arduous search - so 'tEDu' is given all the dhIRgha.

So in summary with almost same melodic contour, just employing dhIRgha hrasva differently and adjusting the sAhitya from where it is taken on the time scale, you get 4 sangatis minimum

[shankarank]

On the question of integrity of words ( padas) :

If the pause is made slightly after nATTamuDan, then 'satguru' needs to be sung over the samam, as though a sASabda is not present, and no word split (padacchEdam) occurs. Also taking 'sat' pre-beat like that puts all the syllabic and melodic emphasis on 'sat' leaving no room for any stress on 'guru' and hence 'guru' will sound together with it.

On the question of what is music:

And in the bhAva sangatis especially ( not just in the so called anAvaSya odukkam sangati) , the 'satguru' subtles (I made it a verb! - music creates language ) one saSabda kriya and elongating 'tEDu' subtles the next sASabda kriya producing a multi layered musical experience.

Something discussed in : viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24554

All in a pre-trinity tamizh kriti!!! QED???

[gardabha_gana]

Can someone tell me the gist of the Mukathai Kattiye? Who is it about and also some words on the composer Papanasa Mudaliar.. Is he from Papanasam - next to Kumbakonam?

[sankark]

Can someone tell me the gist of the Mukathai Kattiye? Who is it about and also some words on the composer Papanasa Mudaliar.. Is he from Papanasam - next to Kumbakonam?

His name is pApavinAsa mudaliyAr. https://karnatik.com/co1038.shtml

this song is about thyAgEsa of tiruvArur - about how He just shows his face but not his entire form.

viewtopic.php?t=15299 & http://www.karnatik.com/c1141.shtml

Typically only the first charaNam is sung; but I recall a Naada Inbam concert where RV had sung all the 3.

[shankarank]

The rendition of ennEramum oru kAlai tUkki is to be cherished. Mami provided a poised rendition for a slow paced kArvai filled kriti, with complete sukam. This is the best of that kriti I have heard so far. The neraval, svarams and the preceding tODi Alapana were a treat too.

SrI GanaptirAman has such a majestic sound on the higher pitch Mridangam and tani was short and substance filled.

[shankarank]

if 'pAdam' is sort of compressed in the dhIRgha(( to sound like almost how 'guru' is vocalized)

That is almost like guru padam to be sounding for 4 total syllables after 2 offset, in a space of 6 , i.e. 4 inside 6 with a tempo rubato, leaving another 6 for tEDu to reach 2 offset for the next Avarta. That is technically caturASra triSram. But this is common in many contexts and she does that in the ennEramum in the "ukkira cAmuNdiyuDan' line.

[rshankar]

Suguna Purushothaman trained under Musiri Subramania Iyer, alongside students Mani Krishnasamy, Suguna Varadhachari, Padma Narayanasamy and Rukmini Ramani.
That is an awesome & formidable list of students under Musiri at the same time.

Shouldn't this list also include Smts. MSS and Radha Vishwanathan?

[MaheshS]

Suguna Purushothaman trained under Musiri Subramania Iyer, alongside students Mani Krishnasamy, Suguna Varadhachari, Padma Narayanasamy and Rukmini Ramani.
That is an awesome & formidable list of students under Musiri at the same time.

Shouldn't this list also include Smts. MSS and Radha Vishwanathan?

I lifted this from Suguna Purushothaman's Wiki entry Also I think all the above were students in the music college where Musiri was the principal, MSS & Radha were learning personally weren't they? Could be why.

[shankarank]

https://youtu.be/OXBn0dXzbt4?t=1372

the passage "nAlam padattil arUL gnAna vIDu" is structured better for music and that shows in her renditions how she handles the second line of that caraNam. nAlam padam (fourth state!) : I understand that refers to the state where gOpalakriShNa bhArathy refers to muppAZhum tANDI - after transcending 3 layers of faults.

In contrast there is lot of tentativeness and loss of continuity and congruity in how nATTamuDan is rendered.

Instead of nATTAmuDan, if that is changed to nATTAttuDan , that gives better anchor ( at 'tt') and rings with satguru. We have precendent from so many versions of tyAgaraja kritis to take such liberties. And doing "sat" atItam at pre-samam will sound better with that change.

The hard consonants in tamiZh if infused with proper layam will become more musical. Music cannot be too biased towards one Gender. We cannot keep on saying we need softer consonants and vowelish endings. That is too much of melodic bias !

Here is a rendition by Thiru cIrkAzhi GOvindarAjan - that has the same setting that mAmi sang.

https://youtu.be/gn30dnKAab8?t=742

[shankarank]

Here is a good article on muttutANDavar : http://www.chembur.com/carnatic/page06.html . But lot of unnecessary sociology! Once you become a professor you get that disease it seems.

Fourth state vs fourth estate!

[sankark]

Here is a good article on muttutANDavar : http://www.chembur.com/carnatic/page06.html . But lot of unnecessary sociology! Once you become a professor you get that disease it seems.

Fourth state vs fourth estate!

Vowel elongation to bring music wasnt known? - tamil grammar already had innisai aLabedai - to elongate by 1 vowel to get innisai (sweet music, good music - san gItam) as opposed to seyyiLisai aLabedai that was to meet thaLai.

[shankarank]

Are you sure you quoted the right post to ask your question?

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=27936&p=305900

We discussed it there.

https://youtu.be/TUsZOpE7a1A?t=194 - he explains it. He explains the stress on consonants as well.

So the part about elongation to achieve music is not new and that can be free form in a viruttam. We should remember we are operating on a "tALA" with tAlas like rUpakam with clearly defined saSabda and niSabda kriyAs.

I think introducing additional consonants ('tt' in nATTattuDan) in this instance anchors it better for one. Different sandhi (puNarcci) between nATTam and uDan. Actually an extra pronoun 'adu' - that, but it is also a considered a conjunction. In vEdic dRiShTi ( vEdic lens [:cough:]), sandhi is also made musical - as in catvAri(gum)Sat in taitriya. nalla 'gummunu' irukkum.

And in our case, satguru or in pure tamizh saRguru , as Thiru cIrkAzhiyAr sings ( remember tamizh has rules on which consonants can follow which) , we take some liberties to elongate the kuril ( short voWel) 'sa' as well, without making it sound as a long vowel, followed by a stress anchor at 't' or 'R' in tamizh to reach eDuppu at 2 offset.

Even if we want to stick to the rules explained, with 4 short syllables for sARguru, it can and should be taken atItam with elongation on pAdam and tEDU. There as well lot of possibilities: Since meyyazhuttu is 1/2 mAtra, you can shorten 4 syllables to 3 syllables, take it on 1 mAtra atItam, you have 12 and then 2 offset - a total of 15. So 3 for sARguru , 5 for pAdam and 7 for tEDU. 3+5+7 = 15 - tEdu would be rendered either with a long kARvai or if needed with ornamentation, as tE, E, E,Du. Latter useful in a neraval as well. Same for pAdam - either kArvai or pA, A, dam - again later may be neraval.

The 1 mAtra atItam will result if you are delayed in nATTamuDan due to a odukkam done or just for breath pause reasons.

if the elongations are executed as kARvais , pURvi kalYANi gives jArus galore in rI..sa and da..pa - mutually samvAdi pairs of pairs to do this.

If it is known why is it not being put to use. It is not that I expect mAmi to do this - but I think the sUtra - the first formulaic rendition needs to be remodeled, so one her younger students will execute all of this.

The limitations of the current setting , probably set by SrI tiruppAmburam swaminAtha piLLAi, guessing based on his disciple cIRkAzhiyAr's rendition, is brought out in mAmi's own rendition here, when she trips on that very line - and even when it is perfect, there is an unnatural tentative hold after nATTmudan here, both by her and the violinist:

https://youtu.be/OXBn0dXzbt4?t=1372