Interesting reading and a question?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 20 Feb 2006, 23:38

This article made for some nice reading:
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2006/02/17/stor ... 350600.htm

Quote from the article:
"If one spoke of Iyengar in connection with Carnatic music, it invariably meant Ariyakkudi Ramanuja Iyengar just as the word Iyerval invariably meant Tyagaraja."
The question is: Does iyarvAL refer to Taygaraja or to SSI?
Ravi

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 21 Feb 2006, 00:19

For quite a while 'Iyengar ' referred to Poochi until he himself gave it away to ARI. 'IyervaaL' was reserved for T long ago (19th century) and hence it was profane to use it for anyone else, let alone SSI. Once when it was used to address MVI it was said that he got angry. Similarly sastri and dikshitar were also trade names but got lost in course of time. Incidentally the quip 'he had once said that Iyerval' s kritis were alone kirtanams and all the rest pokirittanam (fraud)' refers to ARI's comment on HMB's musical compositions!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 21 Feb 2006, 04:13

With his quip, ARI seemed to have thrown out the MD and SS babies with the HMB bathwater..

BTW, pokkirithanam can also mean 'mischief', isn't it? I have heard that word mentioned only in a lighter context, a chiding of a mischief maker. 'Fraud' seems to be too strong a translation for that.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 21 Feb 2006, 04:58

vk
I agree. The translation as well athe quote itself was inaccurate (mollified). he is supposed to have said:
'Thyagarajar ezhuthinathu kIrththanam; ivan paNRathellAM pOkkiriththanam'
Of course ARI was known for his acid tongue.

Incidentally I forgot to add that for a long time 'Bhagavathar' meant Chembai! Also Iyer used to be used synonymously with 'Mani Iyer'(MMI).

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 21 Feb 2006, 05:37

CML, that is better

I guess the ARI's acid pun is with poikirthanam and pokirithanam...

Quite funny at one level... but at the expense of HMB.. not so funny.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 21 Feb 2006, 07:13

vk

In fact the language and behaviour of some of our Icons were not so great in private!

Years ago as I was hosting one of our "Great" (whose name if I mention there will be another explosion) when I invited him for dinner said to me:
chaappaDaraththukku munnaale konjam theerhtham chaappaDalaamE!
Innocent as I was and as one who did not know him too well I brought to him the pot of Ganges water that I had brought from India!
He laughed at me and said:
ivvaLavu naaL intha oorilE irukkEL ithu kooDa puriyalaiya?
Embarrassed I said:
Baapuji kooDa irunthathaalE antha pazhakkam enakku kiDayaathu!
He said deridingly
Anubhavikka theriyaatha manuShan ayyaa nIr...
And I had to have a friend of mine accompany him to a bar close-by..

The next day he gave a divine kutcheri which is unforgettable in my memory. In fact he sang
'duduku gala' with great empathy as though it was addressed to me...

(sorry meena.. this is not worth translating...)

chembai
Pl delete this if you think this is not appropriate here...

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 21 Feb 2006, 07:58

Pl delete this if you think this is not appropriate here...

With free speech becoming endangered everywhere, let it exist at least here. I dont find it obnoxious or inappropriate, so maybe I'll think about it if someone complains

Coming back to the topic, in a concert with Chowdiah and PMI, Chembai says "Today being Iyerval's anniversary, I was asked to participate in the pancharatna kirtanam group rendition this morning, which I politely refused. So I was asked to sing at least in this evening's concert, failing which the organizer will get very angry, so I sing this......" and starts off with Endaro Mahanubhavulu.

I was wondering who was that (seemingly one and only) Iyerval until I heard the mention about Pancharatna kritis.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 12 Jan 2007, 17:36

I have had a somewhat similar experience with an HM artiste of great repute...
As someone had expressed elsewhere in this forum, artistic types seem to have an attraction for these 'ganga-sagara' liquids! Wonder if there is a genetic disposition for this...

More to the topic, has 'Pillai-vaal' ever eferred to TNR or Chittoor?

clueless · Post by **clueless** » 12 Jan 2007, 19:28

In one of the discussions after a lec-dem at MA (in an earlier year), Shri TKG mentioned that when Musiri referred to IyervAL, it meant Konerirajapuram (The context was Musiri saying - Idhai IyervAL eppadi pAduvAr theriyumA?)

Clueless

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 12 Jan 2007, 22:03

Xerox is a trademark, and so is Kleenex. But south Indian community did not have such proprietary classifications. So there are so many piLLaivALs and iyervALs, (veeravAL, veRRivAL, arivAL.)..... depending on who is sponsoring whom.

As for the (distilled) spirits to cleanse the (body) soul, there are oodles and oodles of musicians who indulged in it prior to the performance. TNR, Mali,...the list goes on. Some folks used to justify it by saying, "listen to the performance". The end justified the means. Others indulged in other vices. As the saying goes, "Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future".

So, cmlover does not have a future, I guess!!!!

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 12 Jan 2007, 22:43

clueless wrote:In one of the discussions after a lec-dem at MA (in an earlier year), Shri TKG mentioned that when Musiri referred to IyervAL, it meant Konerirajapuram (The context was Musiri saying - Idhai IyervAL eppadi pAduvAr theriyumA?)

Clueless

Wasn't 'Iyerval' also refering to MVI?

Coolkarni had uploaded a very nice mOhana track of madurai Somu. Somewhere in the Alapane, he remarks 'you should have heard Iyerval singing this'; Since raga in question was mOhana, my thought was he referening to MVI.

-Ramakriya

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Jan 2007, 22:54

OK...there seem to be too many 'iyervALs' - the list seems to be growing like 'hanumAn's vAl'

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Jan 2007, 00:06

Ravi, my elders (my! a long time ago) used to refer to tyAgarAjA's kritis as AyyarvAL kIRthanaigaL.
BhAgavathar also was another name for M.K.Thyagaraja Bhagavathar, the great singing movie star.
Now, a bhAgava 'dhAr' to keep the 'vAl' company

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 13 Jan 2007, 17:19

i'm reminded of 'ayyaval' which always refers to 'sridhara ayyaval' one of the trinities of the bajan sampradhaya.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 14 Jan 2007, 02:11

All this talk about iyervAL etc. reminded me of a line we used in a skit at Mardi Gras (IIT-M) years ago...
"the iyer and iyer you go, the iyengar you become!"
(brought quite a chuckle from the audience

)

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 14 Jan 2007, 02:35

ha ha indeed! Let me add
'as rama and rama you go, balarama you become

(for those of you who don't know, balarama was known to be tipsy most of the time

vsnatarajan · Post by **vsnatarajan** » 15 Jan 2007, 17:00

jayaram wrote:"the iyer and iyer you go, the iyengar you become!"
(brought quite a chuckle from the audience )

I strongly Lodge a protest against this comment.!!!

(as such the Iyengars Taunt is three much..)

ranjani · Post by **ranjani** » 15 Jan 2007, 19:23

I too join in the protest. Its not good to support the wrong notion that Iyengars are above Iyers. Hope we get an apology from jayaram

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 15 Jan 2007, 22:52

Oh! I think he meant it in jest...
Let him be!

The typical chemically enhanced IITM irreverence is inclusive of both (h)iyers (to be pronounced like Eliza Doolittle would have done prior to her makeover) and (h)iyengArs in that statement...and since (like Professor Higgins) he is treating everyone alike, we should not protest it too much!

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 16 Jan 2007, 04:12

Uh oh...guys, that was just a joke! And I belong to the 'lower' group, if that's any consolation to you.

All this reminds me of another funny incident...
Some years ago in Melbourne, I attended a pooja function at someone's place. Various people were singing, and one lady sang 'Siva Siva Siva ena rAda' - quite well, if I remember correctly. There was this young Iyengar couple next to me, and every time 'Siva Siva' was uttered, the wife would quickly mutter 'Vishnu, vishnu'. I am not kidding.

Now that I have offended both groups equally, the apologies should cancel themselves out, I hope.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Jan 2007, 05:19

Mutterring a prayer the Iyengaru
In the land of Kangaru
Failed to realize the Iyer
Next her was a spier
Maybe the Lady sang 'Chivas Chivas ena rAda'
And she bewailed ' wish (I) knew', ' wish (I) knew'

bala747 · Post by **bala747** » 17 Jan 2007, 09:11

Bwaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 Jan 2007, 21:43

WOW, CML!
You put Edward Lear to shame!
Can't laugh out louder than the sound of 747

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 17 Jan 2007, 22:37

It is superb

sridevi · Post by **sridevi** » 18 Jan 2007, 02:38

cml... that is awesome!!