Suggestions for quiz

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 20 Jan 2007, 04:40

http://file.uploadr.com/c229

Devi Brova-Chintamani-BMK

a concert version.

ramakriya , I have included a small bit of the applause , too, at the start..

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Jan 2007, 04:46

Thanks Coolkarni

-Ramakriya

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 20 Jan 2007, 04:51

It is now accessible via the following location: http://file.uploadr.com/c229

ok try it now

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Jan 2007, 04:51

Try now Ramakriya. It is available

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Jan 2007, 05:34

Friends. Its now time to post the answers for round 2. This has been a very exciting rond as I can see from the responses received. 23 of you have answered. i actually received an entry just before midnight now and hence the slight delay in posting. Tremedous responses! Great going!

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:08

That was a great 2 quiz. How close I was in anwering some of them correct. getting low score means- you qualify for next round right??

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:13

My comments on this audio round:
1. Raga alapanai section was the easiest for me. Ragas like begada, saveri jumped out in no time at all.
2. Film songs section was a bit tricky, esp the last one. Somehow I feel it's not a pure Shanmukhapriya song.
3. Grahabedham: the 1st one Started in Hamsadhvani I thought. Even after DRS's answers posted, I can hear only hamsadhwani at the start.
4. Hmm, I was quite confident on this one, but got them both wrong! Interesting thing is, I identified them as belonging to the corresponding pratimadhyama mela, i.e. Pantuvarali & Shanmukhapriya. I still am not able to identify gowlipantu and natabhairavi in these!

Any way, interesting quiz. DRS, please post your comments.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:18

jayaram wrote:3. Grahabedham: the 1st one Started in Hamsadhvani I thought. Even after DRS's answers posted, I can hear only hamsadhwani at the start.

I agree that this one was quite tricky - Point is, once you latch on to hamsadhwani, you will not be able to come out of it. Particularly because of the s - m bhAva.

Actually speaking, the same problem exisited in the abhOgi AlApane too - If you latch on a wrong note, you will hear only valaji!

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:19

First lets have comments from all of you. Mine will come at the end. Lets others share their experience and opinions too. I will throw in a question every now and then as we discuss further.

Could you guys mae out which were the film songs?

Jayaraam, perhaps you could start with the AlApane section. How did you identify them right? What was characteristic about the cips I posted?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:23

jayaram,
Same here , the swara 2 I answered shanmukhapriya.May be it was grahabedham effect. if we don't catch the right shruti, a short clip will not be enough here.
Swara one too I got wrong

Clips were too short............

I did good on films to my surprise. I answered 3 right and answered simhendra madhyaman for shanmukhapriya. I first wrote as Shanmukhapriya and changed it after thinking the swara 2 was shanmukhapriya and no two questions will have same answer.(what a shame)

Got grahabedham 1 right.
Second one sounded yamanish-tOdi??? ah, not a bit for my ears.

Thought abhOgi was jayamanOhari

take home lesson- One needs to be able to catch everything in such a short clip. I am so used to pondering over an Alapana and getting it right.

vasya10 · Post by **vasya10** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:24

3. Grahabedham: the 1st one Started in Hamsadhvani I thought. Even after DRS's answers posted, I can hear only hamsadhwani at the start.

I got the same too, trying to relate to sripate, still cant... still only "hearing" hamsadhvani.

The gaulipantu was a bit tricky, as DRS mentioned, i was hearing m2 first, and the mgrs at the end put me off a bit. Had to think hard to figure out it was gaulipantu.. Then i related to gaula, but since there was a dhaivata, and i tried to relate to 'tera teyaga radha' it became more clear.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:24

Jayaraam, perhaps you could start with the AlApane section. How did you identify them right? What was characteristic about the cips I posted?

Well, as I said the ragas just jumped out in no time for me. Ragas like begada, saveri have such characteristic phrases, that all I needed was the first 5 seconds of each clip. I wish you had included a bit more 'difficult' ragas in this section. Asaveri took a few seconds more, but wasn't that difficult. Abhogi was clear-cut for me, I didn't hear any Valaji.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:24

drshrikaanth wrote:Could you guys mae out which were the film songs?

No clue about the bilahari and rEvati songs. abhEri song is a hUvu cheluvellA tandenditu a very nice kannada song. shanmukhapriya seemed to be very familiar. but could not place it at all

Look's like one of Rehman's songs.

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:28

jayaram wrote:Well, as I said the ragas just jumped out in no time for me. Ragas like begada, saveri have such characteristic phrases, that all I needed was the first 5 seconds of each clip.

This is no good for others who have difficulty recognising the rAgas. You must be able to recognise and describe what is characteristic. That is the point about the quiz. To push your limts and to try and "know" what you know and helps others to know as well.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:29

As I said before, the last film song is definitely not pure Shanmukhapriya. The violin was playing one thing, the sitar(?) was playing more Sh-priya. Not a good clip to include, in my opinion.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:29

jayaram wrote:Well, as I said the ragas just jumped out in no time for me. Ragas like begada, saveri have such characteristic phrases, that all I needed was the first 5 seconds of each clip. I wish you had included a bit more 'difficult' ragas in this section. Asaveri took a few seconds more, but wasn't that difficult. Abhogi was clear-cut for me, I didn't hear any Valaji.

AlApane section was really easy, with give-away phrases as you mentioned.

bEgaDe clip -> started off with very characteristic srsndp - ssg,,-and goes to another characteristic
gr.. gmpdpgrs .. ; What else do we need

similarly with sAvEri and asAvEri clips;

About the abhOgi part, no I did not get caught in valaji, but it is quite possible.

-Ramakriya

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:32

Btw, the BMK clip was lovely! DRS, please do u/l the whole clip if possible.
(in fact, if you can post longer clips for each of these, it will give us a better understanding.)

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:33

jayaram wrote:As I said before, the last film song is definitely not pure Shanmukhapriya. The violin was playing one thing, the sitar(?) was playing more Sh-priya. Not a good clip to include, in my opinion.

This confused me into Simhendramadhyamam

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:35

jayaram wrote:As I said before, the last film song is definitely not pure Shanmukhapriya. The violin was playing one thing, the sitar(?) was playing more Sh-priya. Not a good clip to include, in my opinion.

What I can say is it uses all swaras from shanmukhapriya, with some varjya sanchAras (the violin was playing this Jayaram), but all the same falling into the same mELa.

-Ramakriya

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:36

its from a BMK-LGJ-UKS concert... sundari nee divya rupamu. the concert is available on surasa.net

the swaras were definitely tricky... got both of them wrong

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:39

Thanks for the pointer venkatpv - I haven't heard this particular sundari nI..

-Ramakriya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:40

venkatpv wrote:the swaras were definitely tricky... got both of them wrong

My question is which kriti was it .. I am inclined to think taruNamidEnamma, instead of teratIyagarAdA..

Is my intution correct?

-Ramakriya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:44

Did anyone get all correct? I did not

I erred on the naThabhairavi swara.

-Ramakriya

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:45

Are the swaras from SSI rendering?
If so, I'm not there yet

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:49

i did the same mistake as suji (changed film #4 from shanmukhapriya to simhendramadyamam because i though swara 2 was shanmukhapriya). Got all alapana and the other film songs right. Alapana was easiest. First film song was a bit tricky, i eventually figured out the swarasthanas i was hearing to arrive at revathi but after that it seemd obvious (ah! isnt that always

?).

graha-bedham 1 was a bust. Same problem as others - got caught in hamsadwani and couldnt get out

!

Got both swaras wrong. I actually had gowlipantu (or let us say "deduced" based on S R M and D1, and knowing its ma is sort of here and there). But for some odd reason (probably because i am not that familiar with that raga) changed it to varaLI (!), knowing very well it was S R M, and also Ga at the end wasnt typical. I overanalyzed and presumed it was a tricky question

!

I need to listen to that swara #2 - i guess i got the ma wrong. At that speed with SSI himself running out of breath, it wasnt as clear-cut anyway for shanmukhapriya

All in all a challenging and intriguing quiz. Congrats DRS! Keep'em coming!

Arun

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:49

Both swara clips are SSI. Wish we had someone else. I find SSI is sometimes not very clear (and precise) in his swara rendering.
Did others hear natabhairavi in the 2nd swara clip?? I went back and listened to the clips again, and could only hear what sounded like prati-madhyama swara.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:50

same here.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:53

jayaram wrote:Both swara clips are SSI. Wish we had someone else. I find SSI is sometimes not very clear (and precise) in his swara rendering. .

Jayaram. Please dont badmouth the artiste for your limitations. Not the case of sour grapes eh:)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:53

We do have one person who has scored a full 20 this time as well. Scores later in the morning. Goodnight guys.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:55

I was just now listening to S.Ramanathan's lec-dem on ragas, and he makes an interesting point: how the previous (just-heard) swaras 'linger' on in the mind's ear even when you move on to the next swaras. This could explain some of our mistakes, I suppose.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 20 Jan 2007, 06:58

I think I cuaght gowlipanthu in the last 2 seconds of that clip.
not sure if i was correct.
a fine knife, DRS has.for slicing tracks.
Abhogi ... ramakriyas explanation was very relevant to me--(Latching on to ...)
Boy I ran BMk's abhogi valaji RTP a 100 times in my mind before deciding abhogi.
Rest.. let me wait.

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:00

graha-bheda 1 has a trick way to find the answer too...

although the start sounds like hamsadwani, somewhere after 30 seconds, you can hear a 'clearer' hamsadwani... so thats the point the graha bhedam actually took place... so go back and calculate the possible graha-bheda possibilities for hamsadwani... the only "meaningful" raga that you will get is nagaswaravali... presto!!

then go back and hear the clip... you will hear nagaswaravali!!

arun,
i too got the swaras as varali and shamukhapriya!!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:03

I haven't heard this particular sundari nI..

This concert with LLg, the One with Msg with Devadideva ...
both "must hear "concerts.

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:08

Btw, the Asaveri alapanam is by TRS. DRS, pleease u/l this one! It's just so lovely.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:09

venkatpv wrote:graha-bheda 1 has a trick way to find the answer too...

Actually there one more trick way too

- It is by deduction.

step1: If you think

it is hamsadhwani, right from the beginning, then you won't hear any other rAga
(Might be just clearer hamsadhwani as Venkat says

step2: If you look at the range in hamsadhvani, you'll see it is limited to tAra shaDja

step3: So you are missing something - if the vocal range goes only up to tAra shaDja; then it might
be a mUrchane of another rAga, going higher than tAra sa

step4: hamsadwani and nAgaswarAvali are grabhabheda pairs of each other

step5: Original rAga was nAgaswarAvali, then the range goes up to tAra madhyama - Very likely and
looks normal.

Now you have the answer

-Ramakriya

thanjavur · Post by **thanjavur** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:11

venkatpv wrote:graha-bheda 1 has a trick way to find the answer too...

although the start sounds like hamsadwani, somewhere after 30 seconds, you can hear a 'clearer' hamsadwani... so thats the point the graha bhedam actually took place... so go back and calculate the possible graha-bheda possibilities for hamsadwani... the only "meaningful" raga that you will get is nagaswaravali... presto!! then go back and hear the clip... you will hear nagaswaravali!!

Started the quiz just 3 hours before 00:00 GMT. Identified Hamsadhwani in Grahabheda.
Could not identify Nagaswaravali.

This page

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse ... 0000000000

on Grahabheda Groups may have helped if I had located it on time in my bookmarks!

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:13

thanjavur wrote:on Grahabheda Groups may have helped if I had located it on time in my bookmarks!

May be that's why that posting was taken off from grahabhEda thread!

-Ramakriya

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:13

Well, towards the end MLV also brings in a brief Kalyani phrase I think - confused me even more!

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:16

Anyway, hope the next quiz is not on tAla (or sAhitya!) - I am definitely out of the race then

ranjani · Post by **ranjani** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:27

Dear Dr. Srikanth,
Thank you for a very interesting quiz. I didn't get many right anssers, but I am happy to have takenpart. I would have preferred more instrumental pieces, because the swaras are usually better identified thqat way.

Ranjani

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:35

TRS- Asaveri
TRS-TRukmini-TVG-Bombay-1972

http://www.rogepost.com/n/9371319511
http://www.rogepost.com/n/9247649718

i am itching to upload other gems in this concert... but no full concerts allowed... hmmm

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:37

what is the aro/avaro of nagaswaravali? Obviously I am missing the math here. In fact knowing it is hamsadwani and i tried all possible combo and couldnt hit anything (except this "guhamanohari"). If i had hit nagaswaravali, i would have given the answer without knowing why

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:39

btw is the artist of grahabedham-1 vijay siva?

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:41

Nice to hear I wasn't alone in making mistakes. This was a good exercise for me considering I have only one year of serious listening experience. I was working like life/death at the quiz as I got quite engrossed in it.

Most of the answers I got on my bus commute as I fell asleep- esp the hamsdhwani.

What about the Kalyani/ tOdi? I heard kalyani/yaman , but it disappeared now after the answers are known.

A statistics on how we answered each question will be good.

As for SSI I just started listening to him since yesterday and find a different experience than before.

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:42

nagaswaravali
SG3M1PD2S SD2PM1G3S

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:43

suji,

todi starts becoming perceptible (for me) around 40 sec (although violinist after that re-enforces kalyani). But at 50 sec time mark, it is unmistakably tODi.

Arun

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:44

yeah, i thought it was strange that LGJ missed what BMK was trying... but he caught on right after that

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:46

well i see it my !$%$ raga list now

My math was obviously awful. This one could have been had

:)

Arun

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:49

arunk wrote:suji,

todi starts becoming perceptible (for me) around 40 sec (although violinist after that re-enforces kalyani). But at 50 sec time mark, it is unmistakably tODi.

Arun

I think grahabhedam has lot to do with realising the shruthi. In the hansadhwani piece I felt the artist singing in female voice (close).

jayaram · Post by **jayaram** » 20 Jan 2007, 07:52

btw is the artist of grahabedham-1 vijay siva?

I am reasonably sure it is MLV. Nagaswarali is a favorite of hers.